So if the next episode consists of 50 minutes of gay coupling, we should just accept it?
If it's barely clad lesbians count me in...if it's blokes not so much.
You know I'm not going to let minor things wind me up but my main issue would be, if I was that bothered, was that the approach to the ladies last night was a bit Carry On and laddish. All the quips about getting your clothes off and some nice glimpses of Jenny's bosom could in fact be construed as sexist immaturity rather than being pc.
You know I'm not going to let minor things wind me up but my main issue would be, if I was that bothered, was that the approach to the ladies last night was a bit Carry On and laddish. All the quips about getting your clothes off and some nice glimpses of Jenny's bosom could in fact be construed as sexist immaturity rather than being pc.
Over 70% of people in the poll on this thread have voted Good or Excellent.
I'd say that makes your opinion a minority one after all.
But 'Good' could mean anything from 'a bit better than average' to 'would have been excellent but a few points annoyed me'. I would also say that people are more likely to cut some slack as it's the first episode so just a sign of potential.
You could therefore flip the statistics around and say that 62%- the majority- did not think it was excellent.
Some people consider the dinosaur to be unnecessary. But to me it was the kind of absurd humourous added detail to a story that I'd expect to find in a contemporary comic such as 2000AD etc
One critical thing I will say about last night's episode is that I found Clara to be not entirely likeable. I realise they are trying to build her a character from the ground up, somewhat, but I think they still have some way to go.
I'm sure somebody will correct me on the detail but I think he was also the creator of the alternative universe cybermen, hence the touching nod to his passing.
Well, I've FINALLY made it to the end of this thread. I've read every page (I must hate myself) just to see what people were saying. Does seem odd that the extremely vocal negative comments are vastly outweighed in the poll by the good or better scores but I think that's the just the old adage of "you don't tend to make an effort to vocalise if you like something" - I'm aware I'm about to be a little negative, but bear with it
Did I like "Deep Breath"? Ummmmmm........mostly. I think Peter has the potential to be an excellent Doctor and there were some scenes in this episode where he just nailed it. But - you knew it was coming - and I'm willing to accept that it's just my opinion - I wasn't overly impressed with the episode until the scene in the restaurant and to me that's when it came alive. Caveat: I did like the scene in the alley with the tramp with the Doctor freaking out a bit, despite the "I'm Scottish" angle being a little overplayed.
The opening scenes didn't really need the dinosaur as has been discussed, but if Steven thought it needed something big and brash to open, then that's his decision I guess. The BBC could have said "no" if they'd really wanted to. I didn't like how Peter was playing the Doctor early on, the way he was running around the river bank just seemed like a caricature. I'm also one of the people who couldn't understand much of what he was saying in his early scenes. I think it was partly the mix, but also how fast he was talking from the off. I don't usually have a problem with the Scottish accent but coming straight in with the super fast talking it took me a little longer than usual to get a grip on it. Again, that could be partly down to the mix since the sound in general here was a little off.
Once he calmed down, I really enjoyed his portrayal. A little darker, a little more serious but with a twinkle. Jenna was simply superb in this episode. My wife is a big Emmerdale fan (I know, I know) and I remember Jenna from being in Emmerdale and the bits I saw of her in that I knew she could act, she just hasn't been given the opportunity so far in Doctor Who. I'm looking forward to seeing how she goes from here.
Like many I'm getting tired of the Victorian settings - if they need the Paternoster gang then find a way of having them in a different setting, just for variety but Victorian London is just feeling overdone for me right now.
Peter started to 'become' The Doctor for me in the restaurant but made that transition complete when he was sitting in the armchair in the TARDIS at the end and then gave the "I've lived for over 2000 years" speech. I liked the fact he recognised what was going on, but just couldn't place it in his addled brain. OK, that felt a little Quantum Leap-y, Swiss Cheese brain, and if he'd muttered an "Oh boy" I doubt I'd have been surprised but it was a good reference back to the fact he's the same person with the same memories, even if they're in the wrong order right now.
On the whole I liked it, with a few reservations for the first half hour maybe. The writing does need to be tightened up a bit - maybe let Steven run it, but write less - because it does all feel a bit manic. However, Peter by the end of the episode was definitely The Doctor.
Some people consider the dinosaur to be unnecessary. But to me it was the kind of absurd humourous added detail to a story that I'd expect to find in a contemporary comic such as 2000AD etc
Well there have been several stories in 2000AD over the years that have featured dinosaurs
I have to confess to being disappointed in the awesome Mr Capaldis debut. I'd expected more and could only rank this as a 3/5 story. A lot of this is entirely subjective around my opinion of who the Doctor is though.
Peter settled into the role quickly and , in the Cafe, we saw good hints of how good he can be ..I loved "hello rubbish robots from the past". But the episode dragged a lot in places and then there were some bigger issues for me :
So for a start the Doctor is Gallifreyan not Scottish. I've no issue with an accent but it seems the show has to make a big deal of it and have the Doctor announce he's Scottish. It's petty I know but it set the wrong tone for me.
Secondly they had to make a big deal about his age and the over emphasis on this made me nervous for the character . Making him needy as well didn't do any favours. I was just left with the sense of a pensioner who needs his Clara. The Matt Smith scene just emphasized this whole nervousness for me.
Clara for me had been bland up to now and they obviously want to rectify that. What better way than to have other characters like Vastra tell us what Clara is all about by exposition. Then you can just make things up about her that we've never seen any evidence of. Dreadful.
The whole "it's not my Doctor" thing, which was really the only point of this episode, played out far too long and sorry but I'm not in the mood to let Moffatt off the hook on the Impossible Girl not knowing the Doctor. He couldn't even come up with a glib one line of exposition to explain that away.
Careful with the Paternoster gang, they are in danger of becoming parodies of themselves..the Strax joke is wearing particularly thin. There was no point to the dinosaur..but typically British...you can spontaneously combust as many humans as you like but, hurt an animal and there'll be trouble. The robots were okay ...had menace.
The good...Peter settled into the role quickly over the course of the episode and there were glimpses of a steely eyed much calmer Doctor to come which I really liked.
Vastras conversation with Clara, whilst having the issue of being based on exposition, did have a great emotional resonance.
I liked the Clara reaching behind her scene..shame even this wasn't enough to convince her.
Watched the episode live last night with undiluted attention. The post above pretty much summed up my feelings about it, though I don't think the story was anywhere near a 3/5. It was a really poor story all round imho, but luckily this didn't distract from the awesomeness of Capaldi.
I agree there was a massive nervousness about going for the older actor, and as noted above there were numerous clumsy attempts to address it in the hope that the younger audience won't switch off. I just feel that this completely underestimates the kids who watch the show. They know how it works, they're either into that or not, and no new Doctor would change things if not. Constantly apologising for him was in my mind an awful thing to do, and as much as I love Matt I really didn't like the cameo one bit. It really needed to be an unapologetic introduction for Peter Capaldi.
And what a great Doctor! Once he'd shook off the 11-isms and started becoming himself you got a real feel for who this guy will be, and I can't wait to see more. He's going to be amazing, no doubt.
But the story was terrible really. You can't dance around that. Barely there nonsense, nowhere near as compelling as The Eleventh Hour for a début episode. Really hope for better from Mr Moffatt down the line.
In all, it would be an Average from me, but just scrapes a Good in the voting, simply due to the presence of Mr Capaldi.
Funny how heterosexual couples in Doctor Who go under the radar with no comment. And yet include an openly Gay character or couple and I always end up reading offensive accusations on this forum of 'too much PC nonsense' or the BBC trying to prove its 'Gay credentials'.
I'm Gay and have been with my partner for almost 20 years - for the first 10 years of that we had no legal recognition at all. We were legally just two men living together. We now are legally recognised - our civil partnership will be transformed into a marriage later in the year - and we are also foster carers. We currently have a 12 year old girl living with us who very much approved of last night's episode.
So speaking as a Gay Doctor Who fan and parent who was delighted the show has a proud, heroic, positive and openly Gay couple in the show, let me just say this:
Some people are Gay.
It is legal to be Gay.
Marriage between two people of the same gender is now legal.
Gay characters/couples should and will appear on TV shows, including family TV shows and shows aimed at children.
Get over it.
Thank you for acknowledging that I am free to moan. I do not object to gay characters, merely that homosexuality is being included just for the sake of it.
I think you might need to clarify what you mean by 'just for the sake of it'.
Are you suggesting there are special criteria by which Gay people - like me - should be represented in a TV drama?
And yet I've not heard anyone complain about inter-species relationships in Doctor Who before. Funny its only when both are of the same gender that it becomes an issue.
I am another one who found Peter Capaldi hard to hear in the early part of the show. I accept that my hearing is not great, but, yet again, the incidental music tended to drown out the words. It is far too intrusive on Who. It is a pity, because there was some very clever dialogue in there.
I love the Paternoster gang, and the Victorian setting. It reminds me of one of my favourite episodes (Talons of Wang Chinag). But I would like a few more non-earth set ones.
As for Peter Capaldi, for my opinion, by the end of the episode he was great. I think I am going to love the dangerous, edgy, angry eyebrows version of The Doctor.
I think you might need to clarify what you mean by 'just for the sake of it'.
Are you suggesting there are special criteria by which Gay people - like me - should be represented in a TV drama?
No, I'm suggesting that the writer of the episode deliberately tries to get gay references into the show for no other point than to show a gay relationship.
Surely people can understand the difference between being inclusive and deliberately emphasising something?
Over 70% of people in the poll on this thread have voted Good or Excellent.
I'd say that makes your opinion a minority one after all.
As has been pointed out a few times on this thread, the majority of the negative posts came whilst the episode was still airing, some from people who said they had already decided to dislike the show before they'd even seen it! The majority of posts made after the episode had aired are generally positive.
Would you like some bacon to go with your egg?
Extremely selective reading of the posts on here. There have been many many negative posts since the end of the show. In the same way as you accuse people of deciding to dislike the show before they've watched it there are those who switch their critical faculties off when it comes to Who and vote "Excellent" however bad the programme actually was.
Well they could have got married according to Silurian tradition. Not recognised by Victorian London society, of course. Then again, in a lizard society, I guess you just turn the heat up or down to adjust the gender.
Extremely unlikely. The Silurians in general despise apes and treat them as an inferior species.
No, I'm suggesting that the writer of the episode deliberately tries to get gay references into the show for no other point than to show a gay relationship. Surely people can understand the difference between being inclusive and deliberately emphasising something?
And yet River Song's constant bragging about her sexual conquests/boyfriends (autons, androids etc) didn't result in people on this forum complaining about an over-emphasis on her sexuality.
Jackie Tyler's constant mentions of her boyfriends didn't result in any complaints here either.
Martha Jones was always going on about her fiancee when she returned in season 4 - and yet, again, no complaints here about her going on about being straight and getting married to a man.
I could go on, but the fact remains that it is fine for heterosexual characters in Doctor Who to regularly reference their sexual orientation without any accusations of an 'over emphasis' - and yet complaints roll in when Gay characters do the same.
Truly astounding acting from Peter and Jenna. Truly Jenna's defining hour as Clara. A fantastic debut for Capaldi. The direction was excellent at points, only a few nit picky moments I wouldn't have put in but that's just the drama-y side coming out in me! The Pasternoster Gang were well used, and it was probably the first episode I would say that the Jenny character was well used. The script was strong, Moffat really pulled it off! Overall, 9/10
Comments
Who knows.
50 minutes of gay porn? What *was* Strax watching inside Clara's subconscious?
If it's barely clad lesbians count me in...if it's blokes not so much.
You know I'm not going to let minor things wind me up but my main issue would be, if I was that bothered, was that the approach to the ladies last night was a bit Carry On and laddish. All the quips about getting your clothes off and some nice glimpses of Jenny's bosom could in fact be construed as sexist immaturity rather than being pc.
That episode will be internet only.
But 'Good' could mean anything from 'a bit better than average' to 'would have been excellent but a few points annoyed me'. I would also say that people are more likely to cut some slack as it's the first episode so just a sign of potential.
You could therefore flip the statistics around and say that 62%- the majority- did not think it was excellent.
It seems to be generally acknowledged that things get a bit better from this point on and ep 5 is supposed to be a stonker.
Geronimo !!
I'm sure somebody will correct me on the detail but I think he was also the creator of the alternative universe cybermen, hence the touching nod to his passing.
Did I like "Deep Breath"? Ummmmmm........mostly. I think Peter has the potential to be an excellent Doctor and there were some scenes in this episode where he just nailed it. But - you knew it was coming - and I'm willing to accept that it's just my opinion - I wasn't overly impressed with the episode until the scene in the restaurant and to me that's when it came alive. Caveat: I did like the scene in the alley with the tramp with the Doctor freaking out a bit, despite the "I'm Scottish" angle being a little overplayed.
The opening scenes didn't really need the dinosaur as has been discussed, but if Steven thought it needed something big and brash to open, then that's his decision I guess. The BBC could have said "no" if they'd really wanted to. I didn't like how Peter was playing the Doctor early on, the way he was running around the river bank just seemed like a caricature. I'm also one of the people who couldn't understand much of what he was saying in his early scenes. I think it was partly the mix, but also how fast he was talking from the off. I don't usually have a problem with the Scottish accent but coming straight in with the super fast talking it took me a little longer than usual to get a grip on it. Again, that could be partly down to the mix since the sound in general here was a little off.
Once he calmed down, I really enjoyed his portrayal. A little darker, a little more serious but with a twinkle. Jenna was simply superb in this episode. My wife is a big Emmerdale fan (I know, I know) and I remember Jenna from being in Emmerdale and the bits I saw of her in that I knew she could act, she just hasn't been given the opportunity so far in Doctor Who. I'm looking forward to seeing how she goes from here.
Like many I'm getting tired of the Victorian settings - if they need the Paternoster gang then find a way of having them in a different setting, just for variety but Victorian London is just feeling overdone for me right now.
Peter started to 'become' The Doctor for me in the restaurant but made that transition complete when he was sitting in the armchair in the TARDIS at the end and then gave the "I've lived for over 2000 years" speech. I liked the fact he recognised what was going on, but just couldn't place it in his addled brain. OK, that felt a little Quantum Leap-y, Swiss Cheese brain, and if he'd muttered an "Oh boy" I doubt I'd have been surprised but it was a good reference back to the fact he's the same person with the same memories, even if they're in the wrong order right now.
On the whole I liked it, with a few reservations for the first half hour maybe. The writing does need to be tightened up a bit - maybe let Steven run it, but write less - because it does all feel a bit manic. However, Peter by the end of the episode was definitely The Doctor.
Well there have been several stories in 2000AD over the years that have featured dinosaurs
Watched the episode live last night with undiluted attention. The post above pretty much summed up my feelings about it, though I don't think the story was anywhere near a 3/5. It was a really poor story all round imho, but luckily this didn't distract from the awesomeness of Capaldi.
I agree there was a massive nervousness about going for the older actor, and as noted above there were numerous clumsy attempts to address it in the hope that the younger audience won't switch off. I just feel that this completely underestimates the kids who watch the show. They know how it works, they're either into that or not, and no new Doctor would change things if not. Constantly apologising for him was in my mind an awful thing to do, and as much as I love Matt I really didn't like the cameo one bit. It really needed to be an unapologetic introduction for Peter Capaldi.
And what a great Doctor! Once he'd shook off the 11-isms and started becoming himself you got a real feel for who this guy will be, and I can't wait to see more. He's going to be amazing, no doubt.
But the story was terrible really. You can't dance around that. Barely there nonsense, nowhere near as compelling as The Eleventh Hour for a début episode. Really hope for better from Mr Moffatt down the line.
In all, it would be an Average from me, but just scrapes a Good in the voting, simply due to the presence of Mr Capaldi.
Agree
Bestiality is not legal. Get over it.
I think you might need to clarify what you mean by 'just for the sake of it'.
Are you suggesting there are special criteria by which Gay people - like me - should be represented in a TV drama?
And yet I've not heard anyone complain about inter-species relationships in Doctor Who before. Funny its only when both are of the same gender that it becomes an issue.
I love the Paternoster gang, and the Victorian setting. It reminds me of one of my favourite episodes (Talons of Wang Chinag). But I would like a few more non-earth set ones.
As for Peter Capaldi, for my opinion, by the end of the episode he was great. I think I am going to love the dangerous, edgy, angry eyebrows version of The Doctor.
No, I'm suggesting that the writer of the episode deliberately tries to get gay references into the show for no other point than to show a gay relationship.
Surely people can understand the difference between being inclusive and deliberately emphasising something?
Extremely selective reading of the posts on here. There have been many many negative posts since the end of the show. In the same way as you accuse people of deciding to dislike the show before they've watched it there are those who switch their critical faculties off when it comes to Who and vote "Excellent" however bad the programme actually was.
Extremely unlikely. The Silurians in general despise apes and treat them as an inferior species.
And yet River Song's constant bragging about her sexual conquests/boyfriends (autons, androids etc) didn't result in people on this forum complaining about an over-emphasis on her sexuality.
Jackie Tyler's constant mentions of her boyfriends didn't result in any complaints here either.
Martha Jones was always going on about her fiancee when she returned in season 4 - and yet, again, no complaints here about her going on about being straight and getting married to a man.
I could go on, but the fact remains that it is fine for heterosexual characters in Doctor Who to regularly reference their sexual orientation without any accusations of an 'over emphasis' - and yet complaints roll in when Gay characters do the same.
Maybe that could involve the reintroduction of the darloids.