But it's not a fact, is it. The above proves it is not a fact.
You were deemed as not having a housing need. If you dispute that, you could have appealed. But the reasons for your removal from the list had nothing to do with "foreigners" getting council houses.
Yes it did - demand exceeds supply due to the amount of immigrants turning up here; oh & I did appeal - but lost. I know what I'm talking about - like I said I speak from personal experience, I'm not sitting in an ivory tower commenting on things happening miles away based on something I read on the internet (unlike you).
Yes it did - demand exceeds supply due to the amount of immigrants turning up here; oh & I did appeal - but lost. I know what I'm talking about - like I said I speak from personal experience,
You were removed from the list because you did not have a housing need. Where in that statement does it say that you were removed because, in your words, "Croydon's social housing stock is being snapped up by non-natives," especially when you have been shown the facts to the contrary.
'm not sitting in an ivory tower commenting on things happening miles away based on something I read on the internet (unlike you).
So, prove it. Provide the evidence that "Croydon's social housing stock is being snapped up by non-natives." Or is it all "experience?"
The evidence I have provided is not made up by me. It is reported by your local newspaper, would it have been better if I had got on the bus to the newsagent at East Croydon Station and bought the actual paper?
That's the problem,you associate common sense and people wanting immigrants who fit in easily and seamlessly with racism.
Heaven forbid we all speak the same language and share the same basic values..
That would never do eh
Whether you like it or not,there is such as thing as bad immigration and unsuitable immigrants.
No country should import poverty,crime or illness and no country with millions of it's own citizens unemployed should ever import unskilled labour.
No country should ever import anyone who costs the country money in any way(with,perhaps, the exception of a foreign born disabled spouse or children of a British born citizen)
Do you see what I am saying here,I'm not saying stop all immigration - I'm saying make it sensible,make it cost effective and make it for the good of the country and its citizens,rather than for the good of the immigrant.
In 1994 I went on to the council's housing register, I'd actually only lived in Croydon for a couple of months at the time, but I've lived in the UK since 1972 - ie since I was born; in 2011 I was removed from it against my will without ever having been offered a home, they said I had no housing need (since 1994 I've lived in first one & then another private rented flat - both with a multitude of problems, eg current place has ridiculously low water pressure). I suffer from terrible anxiety, & so insecure tenure plays havoc with my state of mind. My comments are based on my own personal experiences - not something I read.
As for 'foreigner' - it depends on how you use the term, I see no difference between a person who arrived here 2 years ago & someone who arrived here 2 weeks ago; they're both foreigners. Croydon's social housing stock is being snapped up by non-natives & that's a fact.
My Nan said in the 1970's "How does someone from another country end up getting a council home,when there are local people who have been on the waiting list for a long time"
To date,no politician or public official has ever answered that question in a way that makes any sense to me..
My Nan said in the 1970's "How does someone from another country end up getting a council home,when there are local people who have been on the waiting list for a long time"
To date,no politician or public official has ever answered that question in a way that makes any sense to me..
Why does it not make sense to you that housing is allocated on the basis of need? If an immigrant (or a native Briton) is homeless, they would get priority over someone who already has some kind of living accommodation.
Why does it not make sense to you that housing is allocated on the basis of need? If an immigrant (or a native Briton) is homeless, they would get priority over someone who already has some kind of living accommodation.
Because like most rational minded people,I question the wisdom of importing people who need financially subsidised social housing before the needs of British born people who have lived in the particular area for generations.
Of course housing should be allocated on the basis of need,but importing those already in need is madness...
Because like most rational minded people,I question the wisdom of importing people who need financially subsidised social housing before the needs of British born people who have lived in the particular area for generations.
Of course housing should be allocated on the basis of need,but importing those already in need is madness...
Why not blame the employers who pay low wages ?
If proper wages were paid no worker would need state help to live, irrespective of where they were born.
If proper wages were paid no worker would need state help to live, irrespective of where they were born.
Don't be silly! The media have told us all that immigrants are the cause and the problem, so blaming the employers or politicians who suck up to the media is pointless.
If proper wages were paid no worker would need state help to live, irrespective of where they were born.
If you are saying that employers are responsible for "the problem" then you are admitting there is a problem.
I don't blame the employers,they never forced anyone to immigrate,they are taking advantage of a problem that already exists,they did not create the problem.
Even if that is the case,then I still believe that British born people who are exploited by employers should still get social housing before any newly arrived immigrant.
A newly arrived immigrant that needs state subsidies of any kind is just "importing poverty"
Their needs to be a 2 tier immigration entitlement system.I don't consider an immigrant who has lived in the country for 10 years to be the same as a new arrival.
If you are saying that employers are responsible for "the problem" then you are admitting there is a problem. I don't blame the employers,they never forced anyone to immigrate,they are taking advantage of a problem that already exists,they did not create the problem.
Even if that is the case,then I still believe that British born people who are exploited by employers should still get social housing before any newly arrived immigrant.
A newly arrived immigrant that needs state subsidies of any kind is just "importing poverty"
Their needs to be a 2 tier immigration entitlement system.I don't consider an immigrant who has lived in the country for 10 years to be the same as a new arrival.
Of course there is a problem! There is a problem for all workers, irrespective of colour, race or creed in affording a home without state aid when they are paid a pittance.
And don't you realise it is the employers who particularly want low-paid immigrants to maximise their profits?
You were removed from the list because you did not have a housing need. Where in that statement does it say that you were removed because, in your words, "Croydon's social housing stock is being snapped up by non-natives," especially when you have been shown the facts to the contrary.
So, prove it. Provide the evidence that "Croydon's social housing stock is being snapped up by non-natives." Or is it all "experience?"
The evidence I have provided is not made up by me. It is reported by your local newspaper, would it have been better if I had got on the bus to the newsagent at East Croydon Station and bought the actual paper?
The only way to prove it would be for me to go around videoing people entering/leaving their council properties, which as well as getting me in to trouble, would be impossible as I do not have the technology to do so. You will just have to accept that I know more about this area & the subject of social housing than you do.
Anybody that does not own their own home has housing need, especially if like me you're forced to use the lower end of the private rental market.
Why does it not make sense to you that housing is allocated on the basis of need? If an immigrant (or a native Briton) is homeless, they would get priority over someone who already has some kind of living accommodation.
So if you had been in a queue at a supermarket for half an hour & I pushed in infront of you with a trolley piled sky-high with stuff, you'd be alright with that?
That's the problem,you associate common sense and people wanting immigrants who fit in easily and seamlessly with racism.
Heaven forbid we all speak the same language and share the same basic values..
That would never do eh
Whether you like it or not,there is such as thing as bad immigration and unsuitable immigrants.
No country should import poverty,crime or illness and no country with millions of it's own citizens unemployed should ever import unskilled labour.
No country should ever import anyone who costs the country money in any way(with,perhaps, the exception of a foreign born disabled spouse or children of a British born citizen)
Do you see what I am saying here,I'm not saying stop all immigration - I'm saying make it sensible,make it cost effective and make it for the good of the country and its citizens,rather than for the good of the immigrant.
Please,explain,what is wrong with that scenario?
And it seems you want to excuse racist principles as something reasonable.
Of course there is a problem! There is a problem for all workers, irrespective of colour, race or creed in affording a home without state aid when they are paid a pittance.
And don't you realise it is the employers who particularly want low-paid immigrants to maximise their profits?
And I want British born people,irrespective of colour, race or creed to get council homes first and foremost over and above any foreign born citizen.
Employers ,as I said before,they are taking advantage of an immigration problem,they are not causing it - that's the fault of the governments of the last few decades - including the Labour party,some would say especially the Labour party.
Exactly. Shouting 'racist' simply doesn't wash these days as it is an incredibly tired and unimaginative way of attempting to shut down debate.
I've challenged people who love to bandy it about indiscriminately to explain their definition of the word, but - unbelievably - that request has been met with nothing but tumbleweed.
So if you had been in a queue at a supermarket for half an hour & I pushed in infront of you with a trolley piled sky-high with stuff, you'd be alright with that?
I love your superb analogy. Well done Jenny.
It's very hard to argue with and to the point.
no trendy metropolitan liberal crap needed,just good old fashioned common sense.
Yes it did - demand exceeds supply due to the amount of immigrants turning up here; oh & I did appeal - but lost. I know what I'm talking about - like I said I speak from personal experience, I'm not sitting in an ivory tower commenting on things happening miles away based on something I read on the internet (unlike you).
You were removed from the list because you did not have a housing need. Where in that statement does it say that you were removed because, in your words, "Croydon's social housing stock is being snapped up by non-natives," especially when you have been shown the facts to the contrary.
So, prove it. Provide the evidence that "Croydon's social housing stock is being snapped up by non-natives." Or is it all "experience?"
The evidence I have provided is not made up by me. It is reported by your local newspaper, would it have been better if I had got on the bus to the newsagent at East Croydon Station and bought the actual paper?
The only way to prove it would be for me to go around videoing people entering/leaving their council properties, which as well as getting me in to trouble, would be impossible as I do not have the technology to do so. You will just have to accept that I know more about this area & the subject of social housing than you do.
But you don't need to collect any evidence, the Croydon Advertiser has done all of that for you and their evidence has shown that your perception has no foundation in truth. If you can point to any evidence that "Croydon's social housing stock is being snapped up by non-natives," then do so.
Anybody that does not own their own home has housing need, especially if like me you're forced to use the lower end of the private rental market.
That is simply not true. There is no God given right that everyone must be able to own their own home. Millions of people rent their whole lives without being in crisis of not having anywhere to live.
So if you had been in a queue at a supermarket for half an hour & I pushed in infront of you with a trolley piled sky-high with stuff, you'd be alright with that?
Although this is a wholly erroneous analogy, if your need was genuinely greater than mine, if you needed to get home to tend to a dying relative, then I would guide you through and even help pack your bags for you.
You clearly don't want to debate any of my points,because you know they are sound and reasonable.
go on,I dare you to try
Oh dear.....so, you want to drag me into a false debate about racist attitudes about who is more important; people who were born here, against those who were not. Well I am sorry, until you come up with some sensible and less racist basis for debate, you will have to engage in this one on your own.
And I want British born people,irrespective of colour, race or creed to get council homes first and foremost over and above any foreign born citizen.
Employers ,as I said before,they are taking advantage of an immigration problem,they are not causing it - that's the fault of the governments of the last few decades - including the Labour party,some would say especially the Labour party.
And it is not their fault they are taking advantage?
Exactly. Shouting 'racist' simply doesn't wash these days as it is an incredibly tired and unimaginative way of attempting to shut down debate.
I've challenged people who love to bandy it about indiscriminately to explain their definition of the word, but - unbelievably - that request has been met with nothing but tumbleweed.
Even when there is genuine racism? Are we not allowed to call a spade a spade?
And it is not their fault they are taking advantage?
Employers wouldn't have anything to take advantage of if Britain had sensible,sustainable immigration policies.and I include the madness that is the European union in that..But you refuse to recognise that because you cannot argue with it.
Just the same as you are still calling me a racist,becasue you simply cannot put up any reasonable and sensible argument against my points.
Imagine you had a spare empty home,that you owned,now - your Gran wanted it,and a stranger wanted it - I think Granny would get the home,don't you?
As it was your Gran,I wouldn't even expect you to choose the stranger,and I wouldn't expect the stranger to be suprised at your choice
Now apply that process nationally....
Not so hard is it,this common sense business ..
Employers wouldn't have anything to take advantage of if Britain had sensible,sustainable immigration policies.and I include the madness that is the European union in that..But you refuse to recognise that because you cannot argue with it.
Just the same as you are still calling me a racist,becasue you simply cannot put up any reasonable and sensible argument against my points.
So, because someone left the cookie jar unlocked, it is not the fault of the little boy for stealing the biscuits?
Imagine you had a spare empty home,that you owned,now - your Gran wanted it,and a stranger wanted it - I think Granny would get the home,don't you?
As it was your Gran,I wouldn't even expect you to choose the stranger,and I wouldn't expect the stranger to be suprised at your choice
Now apply that process nationally....
Not so hard is it,this common sense business ..
This really is a nonsense analogy. If my Grandmother needed a home from me, it wouldn't be the council I'd be calling, it would a priest.
Comments
What has that got to do with the number of migrants from Australia and New Zealand?
ETA:
As a matter of interest, I don't suppose you know how many exactly, do you?
Yes it did - demand exceeds supply due to the amount of immigrants turning up here; oh & I did appeal - but lost. I know what I'm talking about - like I said I speak from personal experience, I'm not sitting in an ivory tower commenting on things happening miles away based on something I read on the internet (unlike you).
You were removed from the list because you did not have a housing need. Where in that statement does it say that you were removed because, in your words, "Croydon's social housing stock is being snapped up by non-natives," especially when you have been shown the facts to the contrary.
So, prove it. Provide the evidence that "Croydon's social housing stock is being snapped up by non-natives." Or is it all "experience?"
The evidence I have provided is not made up by me. It is reported by your local newspaper, would it have been better if I had got on the bus to the newsagent at East Croydon Station and bought the actual paper?
That's the problem,you associate common sense and people wanting immigrants who fit in easily and seamlessly with racism.
Heaven forbid we all speak the same language and share the same basic values..
That would never do eh
Whether you like it or not,there is such as thing as bad immigration and unsuitable immigrants.
No country should import poverty,crime or illness and no country with millions of it's own citizens unemployed should ever import unskilled labour.
No country should ever import anyone who costs the country money in any way(with,perhaps, the exception of a foreign born disabled spouse or children of a British born citizen)
Do you see what I am saying here,I'm not saying stop all immigration - I'm saying make it sensible,make it cost effective and make it for the good of the country and its citizens,rather than for the good of the immigrant.
Please,explain,what is wrong with that scenario?
My Nan said in the 1970's "How does someone from another country end up getting a council home,when there are local people who have been on the waiting list for a long time"
To date,no politician or public official has ever answered that question in a way that makes any sense to me..
Why does it not make sense to you that housing is allocated on the basis of need? If an immigrant (or a native Briton) is homeless, they would get priority over someone who already has some kind of living accommodation.
Because like most rational minded people,I question the wisdom of importing people who need financially subsidised social housing before the needs of British born people who have lived in the particular area for generations.
Of course housing should be allocated on the basis of need,but importing those already in need is madness...
Why not blame the employers who pay low wages ?
If proper wages were paid no worker would need state help to live, irrespective of where they were born.
If you are saying that employers are responsible for "the problem" then you are admitting there is a problem.
I don't blame the employers,they never forced anyone to immigrate,they are taking advantage of a problem that already exists,they did not create the problem.
Even if that is the case,then I still believe that British born people who are exploited by employers should still get social housing before any newly arrived immigrant.
A newly arrived immigrant that needs state subsidies of any kind is just "importing poverty"
Their needs to be a 2 tier immigration entitlement system.I don't consider an immigrant who has lived in the country for 10 years to be the same as a new arrival.
Of course there is a problem! There is a problem for all workers, irrespective of colour, race or creed in affording a home without state aid when they are paid a pittance.
And don't you realise it is the employers who particularly want low-paid immigrants to maximise their profits?
Anybody that does not own their own home has housing need, especially if like me you're forced to use the lower end of the private rental market.
So if you had been in a queue at a supermarket for half an hour & I pushed in infront of you with a trolley piled sky-high with stuff, you'd be alright with that?
And it seems you want to excuse racist principles as something reasonable.
Get with the times,you are so pre 2010,Son
You clearly don't want to debate any of my points,because you know they are sound and reasonable.
go on,I dare you to try
And I want British born people,irrespective of colour, race or creed to get council homes first and foremost over and above any foreign born citizen.
Employers ,as I said before,they are taking advantage of an immigration problem,they are not causing it - that's the fault of the governments of the last few decades - including the Labour party,some would say especially the Labour party.
Exactly. Shouting 'racist' simply doesn't wash these days as it is an incredibly tired and unimaginative way of attempting to shut down debate.
I've challenged people who love to bandy it about indiscriminately to explain their definition of the word, but - unbelievably - that request has been met with nothing but tumbleweed.
I love your superb analogy. Well done Jenny.
It's very hard to argue with and to the point.
no trendy metropolitan liberal crap needed,just good old fashioned common sense.
But you don't need to collect any evidence, the Croydon Advertiser has done all of that for you and their evidence has shown that your perception has no foundation in truth. If you can point to any evidence that "Croydon's social housing stock is being snapped up by non-natives," then do so.
That is simply not true. There is no God given right that everyone must be able to own their own home. Millions of people rent their whole lives without being in crisis of not having anywhere to live.
Although this is a wholly erroneous analogy, if your need was genuinely greater than mine, if you needed to get home to tend to a dying relative, then I would guide you through and even help pack your bags for you.
Oh dear.....so, you want to drag me into a false debate about racist attitudes about who is more important; people who were born here, against those who were not. Well I am sorry, until you come up with some sensible and less racist basis for debate, you will have to engage in this one on your own.
And it is not their fault they are taking advantage?
Even when there is genuine racism? Are we not allowed to call a spade a spade?
Employers wouldn't have anything to take advantage of if Britain had sensible,sustainable immigration policies.and I include the madness that is the European union in that..But you refuse to recognise that because you cannot argue with it.
Just the same as you are still calling me a racist,becasue you simply cannot put up any reasonable and sensible argument against my points.
Imagine you had a spare empty home,that you owned,now - your Gran wanted it,and a stranger wanted it - I think Granny would get the home,don't you?
As it was your Gran,I wouldn't even expect you to choose the stranger,and I wouldn't expect the stranger to be suprised at your choice
Now apply that process nationally....
Not so hard is it,this common sense business ..
So, because someone left the cookie jar unlocked, it is not the fault of the little boy for stealing the biscuits?
This really is a nonsense analogy. If my Grandmother needed a home from me, it wouldn't be the council I'd be calling, it would a priest.