It's going to be inevitable sadly that there will be more victims which could change the outcome of any conclusion based on newly emerged facts. Better to have all the facts to hand instead of point scoring.
At what point does someone decide that all the facts are known? Is opinion and analysis of this Report to be suspended until another is commissioned? How would you know even then that there weren't more facts to emerge?
It could be a never ending wait. Meanwhile nothing is done because 'we are not in possession of all the facts'.
Shaun Wright was in the job for 5 of the 16 years these abuses were going on so the media and political world should be asking questions over all people who had a responsibility to investigate and bring culprits to justice, not just single out this guy.
But it's easier for them to blame him and get him to take the fall. Stops awkward questions being asked and limits the need for further resignations. The rest can be casually dismissed with a few generic apologies and the usual "lessons to be learned" line. Same as it always is.
Precisely what Sky News did. When they referred to the council they stated that it was a Labour Council. Surely that is what this matter is all about. Hiding the truth.
Oh, I thought you meant precisely what Labour did, did not do, that led to the incidents in question.
But it's easier for them to blame him and get him to take the fall. Stops awkward questions being asked and limits the need for further resignations. The rest can be casually dismissed with a few generic apologies and the usual "lessons to be learned" line. Same as it always is.
Single person scapegoat, yes that is what the media seems to be looking for. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the info/reports didn't get to him.
I wouldn't be surprised people way down the line who would get any allegations/reports first didn't report things to him. If he did get the reports, maybe with the Police reluctant or not doing much, he didn't have enough evidence to go take things further?
In any case, I think they should look at prosecuting the remaining culprits still and how many culprits are supposed to have been involved anyway?
The Ugandan asians were a seperate one off "incident". Idi Amin expelled them from Uganda, they had British passports and Heath allowed them to come to the UK, no problem with me either.
I did think that allowing 10 new EU countries to join the EU in general in 2004 was too much too soon and Labour should definitely have put the 7 year controls on too. I was saying that to a MEP in 2002 too!
There was 2 Million jobs going unfulfilled up until 2004 but that was because so many working class families were choosing not to work because they were getting so much in benefits, esp the tax credits/child tax credits system. Labour should not have given out so much in benefits and made those choosing not to go to work to go and work or face a cut in benefits.
Well, yes. I prefer to call those who cheat the system cheaters as those of us with a working class heritage of values have been equally harmed by those and this country's elites. Apart from that point, I agree with you.
Its kind of hard to tell Muslim men that its wrong to have sex with children when Muhammad was having sex with a 9 year old.
And yes, it is worth identifying the religious background of the abusers, as this is clearly not a few lone freaks acting out some sick fantasy. Its a culture within Islam which views females as lesser bearings, so their suffering doesn't matter.
I have always stood against racism mostly on logical and ethical grounds. But at some point you need to shed your fear of being labelled a racist and just call it how it is. Islam, it is a problem. Not just in the UK, the whole world is experiencing a problem. Its been on the cards for a few centuries now and I suspect its going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
This is what it boils down to, well said.
I'm amazed nobody has called you an islamophobe yet.
This irony is that the 1400 victims people here are using as political capital are the same chavs and scroungers they delight in vilifying day after day. Pathetic.
Shaun Wright was in the job for 5 of the 16 years these abuses were going on so the media and political world should be asking questions over all people who had a responsibility to investigate and bring culprits to justice, not just single out this guy.
He shouldn't be the only one to go. There should be many, However, his position really is untenable. If he's watching the news tonight it can't be comfortable viewing to see members of the public and politicians from all sides calling for him to resign. Then he should be interviewed by police.
This irony is that the 1400 victims people here are using as political capital are the same chavs and scroungers they delight in vilifying day after day. Pathetic.
He shouldn't be the only one to go. There should be many, However, his position really is untenable. If he's watching the news tonight it can't be comfortable viewing to see members of the public and politicians from all sides calling for him to resign. Then he should be interviewed by police.
But what if the officers beneath him didn't report to him on these allegations and even if they did, there wasn't enough evidence to go on which might have been the case with the Police not treating it as a priority?
I wonder if the perpetrators had a more positive attitude towards homosexuality, they could all still enjoy being men together having sex and not need a tortured female child in the same room?
I wonder if the perpetrators had a more positive attitude towards homosexuality, they could all still enjoy being men together having sex and not need a tortured female child in the same room?
Doubt it.
I'm not against homosexuality, doesn' t mean I want a go...
I'm not against homosexuality, doesn' t mean I want a go...
No, quite, but in healthy opinion the words "child" and " sex" do not combine. So if you define sexuality as adult, in that definition it was men having sex with men. Or would have been without the "religious" need for a tortured alibi.
But what if the officers beneath him didn't report to him on these allegations and even if they did, there wasn't enough evidence to go on which might have been the case with the Police not treating it as a priority?
Even if that is the case then I still think it would be the honourable thing to have resigned today just as the council leader did yesterday.
No, quite, but in healthy opinion the words "child" and " sex" do not combine. So if you define sexuality as adult, then by that definition it was men having sex with men was it not?
I thought you were asking whether if Muslim men were accepting of adult homosexuality they' d opt for it in preference to heterosexual paedophilia?
Acceptance of something does not neceassarily equal a desire to partake...
Even if that is the case then I still think it would be the honourable thing to have resigned today just as the council leader did yesterday.
I know thats what the media expect and lead the public into thinking that, but I've never really gone for symbolic resignations. I want those who really failed to do their jobs to be the ones who either lose their jobs or get taken to task.
I wonder if the perpetrators had a more positive attitude towards homosexuality, they could all still enjoy being men together having sex and not need a tortured female child in the same room?
????? You saying the culprits are closet homosexuals and thats why they committed these crimes?
????? You saying the culprits are closet homosexuals and thats why they committed these crimes?
Thanks for your replies.
What I am saying is that "pure" heterosexuality is one man with one woman. Where men are together having sex, there is a gay element, irrespective of whether there is also a female there of whatever age - 9, 19, 29, 49 or 99.
Muslims who indulge in mixed group activity would deny it. White liberals who consider themselves heterosexual and indulge in mixed group activity would deny it. But all of them in being sexual in the context of other men are gayer than those who aren't doing so. What could it be other than that? How is it that it's not perceived in that way?
It isn't a key reason for the Rotherham crime - but it could be one of several components. Several men with one female is ultra straight in some opinion - western and Asian - but logically it's the opposite. Harsh perhaps but true.
"So, how can we Muslims blame the British public for fearing for their underage girls when Muslim men keep getting arrested and convicted for grooming white girls into sex rings?
As a Muslim living in the UK, I have come to believe that we Muslims are the main source of "Islamophobia" -- by the evil and disturbing acts of some Muslims, and above all by the silence of the majority regarding those acts.
It would appear we have no one to blame but ourselves"
Comments
At what point does someone decide that all the facts are known? Is opinion and analysis of this Report to be suspended until another is commissioned? How would you know even then that there weren't more facts to emerge?
It could be a never ending wait. Meanwhile nothing is done because 'we are not in possession of all the facts'.
But it's easier for them to blame him and get him to take the fall. Stops awkward questions being asked and limits the need for further resignations. The rest can be casually dismissed with a few generic apologies and the usual "lessons to be learned" line. Same as it always is.
Oh, I thought you meant precisely what Labour did, did not do, that led to the incidents in question.
Single person scapegoat, yes that is what the media seems to be looking for. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the info/reports didn't get to him.
I wouldn't be surprised people way down the line who would get any allegations/reports first didn't report things to him. If he did get the reports, maybe with the Police reluctant or not doing much, he didn't have enough evidence to go take things further?
In any case, I think they should look at prosecuting the remaining culprits still and how many culprits are supposed to have been involved anyway?
Well, yes. I prefer to call those who cheat the system cheaters as those of us with a working class heritage of values have been equally harmed by those and this country's elites. Apart from that point, I agree with you.
This is what it boils down to, well said.
I'm amazed nobody has called you an islamophobe yet.
You can provide some evidence for this?
He shouldn't be the only one to go. There should be many, However, his position really is untenable. If he's watching the news tonight it can't be comfortable viewing to see members of the public and politicians from all sides calling for him to resign. Then he should be interviewed by police.
Are you for real?
But what if the officers beneath him didn't report to him on these allegations and even if they did, there wasn't enough evidence to go on which might have been the case with the Police not treating it as a priority?
Doubt it.
I'm not against homosexuality, doesn' t mean I want a go...
No, quite, but in healthy opinion the words "child" and " sex" do not combine. So if you define sexuality as adult, in that definition it was men having sex with men. Or would have been without the "religious" need for a tortured alibi.
and nothing seems to have got done
Is this Britain's first white honour killing victim
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2115984/Is-Britains-white-honour-killing-victim-The-happy-headstrong-girl-17-love-racial-divide-tragic-end.html#ixzz3Bd5XYxaP
Rotherham mayor quits after 3 weeks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28319557
the local council mp's etc has been kept on there toes for years by some locals over allegations
https://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/
sad times for my Town
..and another one. What desperate despicable rubbish.
Even if that is the case then I still think it would be the honourable thing to have resigned today just as the council leader did yesterday.
I thought you were asking whether if Muslim men were accepting of adult homosexuality they' d opt for it in preference to heterosexual paedophilia?
Acceptance of something does not neceassarily equal a desire to partake...
I know thats what the media expect and lead the public into thinking that, but I've never really gone for symbolic resignations. I want those who really failed to do their jobs to be the ones who either lose their jobs or get taken to task.
????? You saying the culprits are closet homosexuals and thats why they committed these crimes?
Thanks for your replies.
What I am saying is that "pure" heterosexuality is one man with one woman. Where men are together having sex, there is a gay element, irrespective of whether there is also a female there of whatever age - 9, 19, 29, 49 or 99.
Muslims who indulge in mixed group activity would deny it. White liberals who consider themselves heterosexual and indulge in mixed group activity would deny it. But all of them in being sexual in the context of other men are gayer than those who aren't doing so. What could it be other than that? How is it that it's not perceived in that way?
It isn't a key reason for the Rotherham crime - but it could be one of several components. Several men with one female is ultra straight in some opinion - western and Asian - but logically it's the opposite. Harsh perhaps but true.
Pathetic.
No condemnation of what went on in Rotherham, just pathetic puerile point scoring.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/may/08/men-guilty-abusing-girls-rochdale
Mudar Zahran
"So, how can we Muslims blame the British public for fearing for their underage girls when Muslim men keep getting arrested and convicted for grooming white girls into sex rings?
As a Muslim living in the UK, I have come to believe that we Muslims are the main source of "Islamophobia" -- by the evil and disturbing acts of some Muslims, and above all by the silence of the majority regarding those acts.
It would appear we have no one to blame but ourselves"
Seems fair doesn't it.