The B&W option does seem archaic, why were there no reductions/increases in licence fee for stereo sound, teletext, widescreen, HD or even for VHS ownership?
no question its archaic, they cant have sold a B&W TV in 15 - 20 years.
TVL would probably call it a day on B&W licences, but they know that the Daily Mail has no doubt already prepared the campaign against it. Plenty of photos of old war heroes with captions saying how they'll no longer be able to watch Gone with the Wind or repeats of Dad's Army.
If I was them I wouldn't want to give the Mail the satisfaction.
those people would all be getting them for free, so it wouldnt be an issue.
If you can't afford a colour licence/tv then you need to re-evaluate your life. It really isn't a luxury these days, I hope they remove the B&W option soon.
on an older crt tube colour receiver you can also wire the grids together (assuming cathode drive). this can be dangeous so only if you know exactly what youre doing.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question, it's appreciated.
It looks like it can be done, but probably isn't worth the time, risk and trouble.
Latest figures show that there are 28,000 people with black and white licences and this number diminishes each year. Maybe there will be a small emerging market in second hand television sets to service the minority who want one? Perhaps I should keep the two portable sets that I was going to take to the waste depot
If you can't afford a colour licence/tv then you need to re-evaluate your life. It really isn't a luxury these days, I hope they remove the B&W option soon.
This also applies to you if you get so bothered about such a trivial matter as this that you resort to insulting fellow members who have not insulted you in any way shape or form.
Plus, why do you "hope" that they remove it, in what way does the existence of a B&W licence affect you?
Kind of like someone who isn't entitled to pay the full TVL asking to get rid of it entirely.
Latest figures show that there are 28,000 people with black and white licences and this number diminishes each year. Maybe there will be a small emerging market in second hand television sets to service the minority who want one? Perhaps I should keep the two portable sets that I was going to take to the waste depot
Well Scrooge.
That's 0.001% of TV Licences and aren't those figures from 2009?
Over 9.6 million flatscreen TVs were sold or hired between October 2008 and September 2009, compared to less than 3.5 million between October 2005 and September 2006.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question, it's appreciated.
It looks like it can be done, but probably isn't worth the time, risk and trouble.
Latest figures show that there are 28,000 people with black and white licences and this number diminishes each year. Maybe there will be a small emerging market in second hand television sets to service the minority who want one? Perhaps I should keep the two portable sets that I was going to take to the waste depot
it can be done.
in theory the tv license people have to "demonstrate" you are watching colour. but its safest to "visibly disable" any possible colour reception.
a basic freeview box can be converted by disabling all colour output. basically connecting together the scart pins carrying rgb and cutting all other video outputs. it needs pin identification and a soldering iron. on a typical tv you get a "muddy brown" monochrome picture
older colour tvs without freeview tuners are avalable 2nd hand from some places eg the bigger BHS charity shops.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question, it's appreciated.
It looks like it can be done, but probably isn't worth the time, risk and trouble.
Latest figures show that there are 28,000 people with black and white licences and this number diminishes each year. Maybe there will be a small emerging market in second hand television sets to service the minority who want one? Perhaps I should keep the two portable sets that I was going to take to the waste depot
"recording a colour signal" requires a colour license. even if the device has been modified for monochrome only output. this rules out all pvrs.
on video tape recorders you can disable chroma recording by removing the "colour under" signal before it goes onto the tape. grounding 4.43 mhz is one way ......
Really?? I'm sorry, no offense, but I didn't know people could be this cheap! I can't believe that in a developed country like Britain people would ask something like this. If you are really that poor, sell your tv, buy a used computer and watch on-demand online. You don't need a license for that.
.... obviously you can get a box with hdmi sockets and just trash them but seems a bit silly.
the main requiremnt is analogue component video (also works on hd!). connect together the 3 colour components (in a fairly permanent way eg soldering). and disable all chroma feeds eg on svhs or similar.
obviously the composite cvbs signal cannot be used because it has the entire PAL info on one pin and therefore must be disabled.
with recording the problem is that colour signals go onto the disk or tape which can then be removed. you have to stop colour being recorded. i dont know any way of doing that on disk based digital pvrs. the entire mpeg data stream is recorded and i dont see how the chrominance dct coefficients can be zeroed out before that happens.
There were 13,202 B&W licences at the beginning of 2013 according to this.
Interestingly, they also give a breakdown by city
so if it went down by more than half in 4 years that shows that most of those would now be people over 70? that are entitled to a free TV licence that is colour regardless I presume?
TV Licencing should check if any of their B&W licence customers are close to getting the free licence and then if they are within say 10 years of the free licence, send them letters saying they can get the B&W licence until they can get the free licence.
Then quietly remove the B&W licence for everyone else!
I doubt there is that many people that have a B&W licence that arent about 10 years or less away from getting the free licence!
"recording a colour signal" requires a colour license. even if the device has been modified for monochrome only output. this rules out all pvrs.
on video tape recorders you can disable chroma recording by removing the "colour under" signal before it goes onto the tape. grounding 4.43 mhz is one way ......
Removing the 4.43MHz crystal is another, on machines old enough to have that, before CCD phase averaging came in.
This also applies to you if you get so bothered about such a trivial matter as this that you resort to insulting fellow members who have not insulted you in any way shape or form.
Plus, why do you "hope" that they remove it, in what way does the existence of a B&W licence affect you?
Kind of like someone who isn't entitled to pay the full TVL asking to get rid of it entirely.
Hardly, it's not a trivial matter when people are quite obviously just being sad old misers and trying to get out of paying things. I work in broadcasting, so it matters to me when people are doing damage.
Why do I hope they remove it? Because it's not needed anymore and people still buying it (very few) are just delaying the inevitable. It does effect me because, as I've said, I work in broadcasting. It bothers me that people aren't watching all the art and creativity going into programmes because they're not viewing them properly.
You should be able to interact without being rude.
Just because you don't know of anybody with these views does not mean that these views do not exist and have not been expressed.
Please provide examples of any previous statistics that you state have been "made up" by myself.
It's hardly being rude to say your reasons were made up... because they were. I'd believe you if you said people were just keeping it because it was cheaper, but I genuinely don't think anyone PREFERS black and white because it's more 'homely' (whatever that means!). Show me some evidence of someone saying that and I'll believe you.
Hardly, it's not a trivial matter when people are quite obviously just being sad old misers and trying to get out of paying things. I work in broadcasting, so it matters to me when people are doing damage.
Why do I hope they remove it? Because it's not needed anymore and people still buying it (very few) are just delaying the inevitable. It does effect me because, as I've said, I work in broadcasting. It bothers me that people aren't watching all the art and creativity going into programmes because they're not viewing them properly.
I work in broadcasting, too and it . . . doesn't bother me one bit if people are watching in B&W. Unlike you, I don't feel any entitlement that everything I'm involved in should be seen in colour, because we live in a free country, so those who wish to watch on old black and white sets should, and are, perfectly entitled to do so. So tell me, how on earth does it affect you that less than 1% of the population - a number so small that it would have actually no impact on your career or income whatsoever - choose, or sometimes out of necessity, have to watch in B&W? As a creative person yourself, do you not think that some people may be choosing to watch black and white for artistic reasons, also?
It *is* a trivial matter when you concern yourself with how less than 1% of the population watch television. It isn't important. It doesn't have a detrimental effect on anyone.
However, important matters, like nuclear arms, climate change, the Islamic State, the economy etc, these are matters that aren't, and shouldn't be, considered trivial. How about 13,000 people, out of a country with a population of about 67 million, choose to watch TV, is.
on an older crt tube colour receiver you can also wire the grids together (assuming cathode drive). this can be dangeous so only if you know exactly what youre doing.
Interesting underlined comment - as you post shows a completely lack of understanding of CRT colour TV
Assuming you don't realise your error - you can't 'wire the grids together', as they are already wired together (normally internally in the CRT) - the RGB signals are applied to the cathodes (which you couldn't wire together either, because you would then have no greyscale adjustment).
As for the original question, as a service engineer I've modified numerous sets in the distant past - and just as modifying them to remove the tuner capability (now long since not required), you have to do it in a suitable way (provide a signed statement for the customer, and keep accurate records) that you can go to court as an expert witness if needed.
Incidentally, in all the cases I was involved NONE was ever taken to court, in all cases the TVL accepted by written statement.
But modern LCD sets, no sensible way to make them B&W - and I agree that the B&W licence is long outdated, and should be scrapped - I bet almost all still paying the B&W licence actually have a fully working colour set.
Interesting underlined comment - as you post shows a completely lack of understanding of CRT colour TV
Assuming you don't realise your error - you can't 'wire the grids together', as they are already wired together (normally internally in the CRT) - the RGB signals are applied to the cathodes (which you couldn't wire together either, because you would then have no greyscale adjustment).
As for the original question, as a service engineer I've modified numerous sets in the distant past - and just as modifying them to remove the tuner capability (now long since not required), you have to do it in a suitable way (provide a signed statement for the customer, and keep accurate records) that you can go to court as an expert witness if needed.
Incidentally, in all the cases I was involved NONE was ever taken to court, in all cases the TVL accepted by written statement.
But modern LCD sets, no sensible way to make them B&W - and I agree that the B&W licence is long outdated, and should be scrapped - I bet almost all still paying the B&W licence actually have a fully working colour set.
True, I didn't spot that to correct him!
Also, from what I've experienced in TV servicing, it tends to be VERY old sets that have grid-modulated video and grid-derived RGB matrixing in the CRT. Cathode modulation and a dedicated RGB matrix circuit were much more sensible.
Also, from what I've experienced in TV servicing, it tends to be VERY old sets that have grid-modulated video and grid-derived RGB matrixing in the CRT. Cathode modulation and a dedicated RGB matrix circuit were much more sensible.
Perhaps the old Delta tubes had separate grid connections?, I really can't remember
But I don't think in-line ones ever did.
The old valve sets tended to have separate Luma and Chroma drives, was it a PL802 for the Luma?, and PCL84's for the Chroma? - it's all too long ago
Comments
If you can afford internet access to post on here you can afford a colour TV licence over a B&W one.
no it would not, there is no one whos life is so empty, that would be fun.
no question its archaic, they cant have sold a B&W TV in 15 - 20 years.
oh come on
those people would all be getting them for free, so it wouldnt be an issue.
OB racks it is pretty unbelievable.
If you can't afford a colour licence/tv then you need to re-evaluate your life. It really isn't a luxury these days, I hope they remove the B&W option soon.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question, it's appreciated.
It looks like it can be done, but probably isn't worth the time, risk and trouble.
Latest figures show that there are 28,000 people with black and white licences and this number diminishes each year. Maybe there will be a small emerging market in second hand television sets to service the minority who want one? Perhaps I should keep the two portable sets that I was going to take to the waste depot
True and a good point. This provision only applies if the colour receiver* connected to a monochrome TV is not capable of recording.
*I doubt that any black and white set top boxes were ever manufactured!
You should be able to interact without being rude.
Just because you don't know of anybody with these views does not mean that these views do not exist and have not been expressed.
Please provide examples of any previous statistics that you state have been "made up" by myself.
This also applies to you if you get so bothered about such a trivial matter as this that you resort to insulting fellow members who have not insulted you in any way shape or form.
Plus, why do you "hope" that they remove it, in what way does the existence of a B&W licence affect you?
Kind of like someone who isn't entitled to pay the full TVL asking to get rid of it entirely.
Well Scrooge.
That's 0.001% of TV Licences and aren't those figures from 2009?
possibly. since you might have already had a free cremation .......
it can be done.
in theory the tv license people have to "demonstrate" you are watching colour. but its safest to "visibly disable" any possible colour reception.
a basic freeview box can be converted by disabling all colour output. basically connecting together the scart pins carrying rgb and cutting all other video outputs. it needs pin identification and a soldering iron. on a typical tv you get a "muddy brown" monochrome picture
older colour tvs without freeview tuners are avalable 2nd hand from some places eg the bigger BHS charity shops.
There were 13,202 B&W licences at the beginning of 2013 according to this.
Interestingly, they also give a breakdown by city
"recording a colour signal" requires a colour license. even if the device has been modified for monochrome only output. this rules out all pvrs.
on video tape recorders you can disable chroma recording by removing the "colour under" signal before it goes onto the tape. grounding 4.43 mhz is one way ......
the main requiremnt is analogue component video (also works on hd!). connect together the 3 colour components (in a fairly permanent way eg soldering). and disable all chroma feeds eg on svhs or similar.
obviously the composite cvbs signal cannot be used because it has the entire PAL info on one pin and therefore must be disabled.
so if it went down by more than half in 4 years that shows that most of those would now be people over 70? that are entitled to a free TV licence that is colour regardless I presume?
TV Licencing should check if any of their B&W licence customers are close to getting the free licence and then if they are within say 10 years of the free licence, send them letters saying they can get the B&W licence until they can get the free licence.
Then quietly remove the B&W licence for everyone else!
I doubt there is that many people that have a B&W licence that arent about 10 years or less away from getting the free licence!
Removing the 4.43MHz crystal is another, on machines old enough to have that, before CCD phase averaging came in.
Hardly, it's not a trivial matter when people are quite obviously just being sad old misers and trying to get out of paying things. I work in broadcasting, so it matters to me when people are doing damage.
Why do I hope they remove it? Because it's not needed anymore and people still buying it (very few) are just delaying the inevitable. It does effect me because, as I've said, I work in broadcasting. It bothers me that people aren't watching all the art and creativity going into programmes because they're not viewing them properly.
It's hardly being rude to say your reasons were made up... because they were. I'd believe you if you said people were just keeping it because it was cheaper, but I genuinely don't think anyone PREFERS black and white because it's more 'homely' (whatever that means!). Show me some evidence of someone saying that and I'll believe you.
I work in broadcasting, too and it . . . doesn't bother me one bit if people are watching in B&W. Unlike you, I don't feel any entitlement that everything I'm involved in should be seen in colour, because we live in a free country, so those who wish to watch on old black and white sets should, and are, perfectly entitled to do so. So tell me, how on earth does it affect you that less than 1% of the population - a number so small that it would have actually no impact on your career or income whatsoever - choose, or sometimes out of necessity, have to watch in B&W? As a creative person yourself, do you not think that some people may be choosing to watch black and white for artistic reasons, also?
It *is* a trivial matter when you concern yourself with how less than 1% of the population watch television. It isn't important. It doesn't have a detrimental effect on anyone.
However, important matters, like nuclear arms, climate change, the Islamic State, the economy etc, these are matters that aren't, and shouldn't be, considered trivial. How about 13,000 people, out of a country with a population of about 67 million, choose to watch TV, is.
Interesting underlined comment - as you post shows a completely lack of understanding of CRT colour TV
Assuming you don't realise your error - you can't 'wire the grids together', as they are already wired together (normally internally in the CRT) - the RGB signals are applied to the cathodes (which you couldn't wire together either, because you would then have no greyscale adjustment).
As for the original question, as a service engineer I've modified numerous sets in the distant past - and just as modifying them to remove the tuner capability (now long since not required), you have to do it in a suitable way (provide a signed statement for the customer, and keep accurate records) that you can go to court as an expert witness if needed.
Incidentally, in all the cases I was involved NONE was ever taken to court, in all cases the TVL accepted by written statement.
But modern LCD sets, no sensible way to make them B&W - and I agree that the B&W licence is long outdated, and should be scrapped - I bet almost all still paying the B&W licence actually have a fully working colour set.
True, I didn't spot that to correct him!
Also, from what I've experienced in TV servicing, it tends to be VERY old sets that have grid-modulated video and grid-derived RGB matrixing in the CRT. Cathode modulation and a dedicated RGB matrix circuit were much more sensible.
Perhaps the old Delta tubes had separate grid connections?, I really can't remember
But I don't think in-line ones ever did.
The old valve sets tended to have separate Luma and Chroma drives, was it a PL802 for the Luma?, and PCL84's for the Chroma? - it's all too long ago