The real people who hold power behind ISIS are no more Muslim than you or I. They want the money and the power and islam is a convenient cloak for them to hide behind.
You can bet your bottom dollar the leader of this gang is not one bit religious and is enjoying his power like the terrorist that he is.
A debatable point but if this speech helps rally favourable public opinion I don't care. He allegedly has sympathy for the Muslim Brotherhood of which his brother is a member.
Well allegedly he is a Muslim, who wasn't born in America and therefore isn't really an American and he is trying to introduce communism by attempting to provide universal healthcare.
There are a great many ultra rightwing American groups who talk an awful lot of shit about Obama, I think it should all be taken with a very large pinch of salt.
Round up and intern all the families of anybody known to be fighting for Isis. Make them have to look into their parents, sisters, brothers eyes and answer to them what has happened to them..
Wow, the crazies really come out at night on this forum.
Dictators bring stability to this hellhole region of the earth.
Saddam, Gaddafi were brutal psychopaths to be sure but the alternative has turned out to be even worse.
The past two decades have in no small part been a hell of our own making. The Middle East has been unstable since the fall of the Ottoman Empire because of the deep sectarian divide between Shia and Sunni Moslems - Saudi is Sunni (and the more repressive Sunni-based Wahhabist), Afghanistan is also Sunni, Iran is Shia and Iraq is a mixture of the two with Shia being a slight majority. Iraq has been at the epicentre of the sectarian struggle throughout.
The West's mistake is that we ever got involved in taking sides in the first place. Worst of all we tried to impose Western democracy on Iraq after the second Gulf War which to many Iraqis is just as bad as the idea of us living under Sharia law in Britain - an imposition of a foreign style of government. As others have said here many Iraqis don't want democracy.
IS is now the new wave of aggressive and brutal Sunni extremism seeking dominance in the region, so right now if we are going to intervene (and we should since Western people are being targeted by these monsters) then we need to give full support to Shia Moslems and that means cosying up to Assad's Shia government in Syria and also to Iran, neither of which are an enticing prospect.
The sad part is this will never go away. Iraq and Syria are tribal counties, democracy will never work there and it was utterly arrogant of the West to pretend it would. There's a reason they had dictators.
EDIT - I see the post above just said all that in more detail.
The past two decades have in no small part been a hell of our own making. The Middle East has been unstable since the fall of the Ottoman Empire because of the deep sectarian divide between Shia and Sunni Moslems - Saudi is Sunni (and the more repressive Sunni-based Wahhabist), Afghanistan is also Sunni, Iran is Shia and Iraq is a mixture of the two with Shia being a slight majority. Iraq has been at the epicentre of the sectarian struggle throughout.
The West's mistake is that we ever got involved in taking sides in the first place. Worst of all we tried to impose Western democracy on Iraq after the second Gulf War which to many Iraqis is just as bad as the idea of us living under Sharia law in Britain - an imposition of a foreign style of government. As others have said here many Iraqis don't want democracy.
IS is now the new wave of aggressive and brutal Sunni extremism seeking dominance in the region, so right now if we are going to intervene (and we should since Western people are being targeted by these monsters) then we need to give full support to Shia Moslems and that means cosying up to Assad's Shia government in Syria and also to Iran, neither of which are an enticing prospect.
It's all a complete f***ing mess.
I totally agree and have said before it is a tragedy for the world that these countries all have such vast oil reserves.
Otherwise we could have left them all to it and shitholes like Saudi Arabia would be seen for the barbaric dark age society it really is.
Hopefully most of them have been forced to join and would flea when against the power of USA/Europe/AUS if they send in troops.
I really hope the Jihad John is the first one dead, what a complete failure of a human being
I'm not defending that piece of scum however chances are that he was chosen to kill these poor people because he's british and has an accent. But these beheadings were reordered for maximum shock/effect once posted online. I'm sure there's plenty more of these idiots who have done far worse but hasn't been recorded.
What's strange for me is they seem to want the US to stop bombing them but at the same time it almost feels as if they are trying to force us into going in to get them. I think the longer they continue to grow and do what they're doing, the more likely it is that other nations will come onside and start fighting them.
My main worry is that if we do go in, they will try and kidnap soldiers and well....you know. As for it's only a 'small group of muslims', well it seems they aren't so small and they're growing.
Islam is not a violent religion. ( I'm not religious)
Anyone can turn any belief system violent by distorting the teachings to suit their agenda.
Just because some more enlightened modern muslims don't interpret the Koran in the the same way as the nutters of the IS, that doesn't make it a peaceful religion.
There is no single correct way to interpret a book, especially one written so long ago.
If islam is being used as a guide to commit atrocities, murder innocents and oppress people then it is a violent religion, it really is as simple as that.
Who are you to decide which interpretation is correct ?
Are you the reincarnation of Mohammed ?
I'm not defending that piece of scum however chances are that he was chosen to kill these poor people because he's british and has an accent. But these beheadings were reordered for maximum shock/effect once posted online. I'm sure there's plenty more of these idiots who have done far worse but hasn't been recorded.
What's strange for me is they seem to want the US to stop bombing them but at the same time it almost feels as if they are trying to force us into going in to get them. I think the longer they continue to grow and do what they're doing, the more likely it is that other nations will come onside and start fighting them.
My main worry is that if we do go in, they will try and kidnap soldiers and well....you know. As for it's only a 'small group of muslims', well it seems they aren't so small and they're growing.
I think arming the Iraq soldiers is a good idea. Then send in the troops to defeat the larger packs of ISIS troops with the help of air strikes.
Destroy their tanks and vehicles. Are they growing because more people believe in their evil ways or because they are forcing people to convert...
The acts perpetrated by these people is beyond our comprehension as is the whole sorry mess in the middle east. The divide between Sunni and Shia is something the West cannot resolve in any way in fact nobody can. In the short term I think we should throw our lot in with Assad and attack IS with everything we can.
The acts perpetrated by these people is beyond our comprehension as is the whole sorry mess in the middle east. The divide between Sunni and Shia is something the West cannot resolve in any way in fact nobody can. In the short term I think we should throw our lot in with Assad and attack IS with everything we can.
Imagine Assad, Putin and Obama all in 1 team against ISIS. That would be a true example of uniting against evil
The past two decades have in no small part been a hell of our own making. The Middle East has been unstable since the fall of the Ottoman Empire because of the deep sectarian divide between Shia and Sunni Moslems - Saudi is Sunni (and the more repressive Sunni-based Wahhabist), Afghanistan is also Sunni, Iran is Shia and Iraq is a mixture of the two with Shia being a slight majority. Iraq has been at the epicentre of the sectarian struggle throughout.
The West's mistake is that we ever got involved in taking sides in the first place. Worst of all we tried to impose Western democracy on Iraq after the second Gulf War which to many Iraqis is just as bad as the idea of us living under Sharia law in Britain - an imposition of a foreign style of government. As others have said here many Iraqis don't want democracy.
IS is now the new wave of aggressive and brutal Sunni extremism seeking dominance in the region, so right now if we are going to intervene (and we should since Western people are being targeted by these monsters) then we need to give full support to Shia Moslems and that means cosying up to Assad's Shia government in Syria and also to Iran, neither of which are an enticing prospect.
It's all a complete f***ing mess.
Great post, I agree 100%.
Sometimes, in the interests of peace and stability, it means cosying up to some unpalatable people. I had the utmost respect for the late Robin Cook, and he was correct about going to war in Iraq. But his ideas about an "ethical foreign policy" are pretty much unworkable in the real world. We need leaders with a real grasp of history and the likely long term effects of our actions. Too many short term, knee jerk reactions have resulted in this bloody mess.
I think arming the Iraq soldiers is a good idea. Then send in the troops to defeat the larger packs of ISIS troops with the help of air strikes.
Destroy their tanks and vehicles. Are they growing because more people believe in their evil ways or because they are forcing people to convert...
There is a danger of IS growing in size if people from neighbouring countries join them after IS take control of the neighbouring countries. If they gain control of all countries that have Islam as their main religion, they might become powerful enough to take on nearly any country.
There is a danger of IS growing in size if people from neighbouring countries join them after IS take control of the neighbouring countries. If they gain control of all countries that have Islam as their main religion, they might become powerful enough to take on nearly any country.
But surely there is only a tiny percentage of Islamists who share their evil ideas...the rest of Islam will not join them
Imagine Assad, Putin and Obama all in 1 team against ISIS. That would be a true example of uniting against evil
Wouldn't be the first time. Even during huge Cold War tension in the 80s both the US and the Soviets assisted Saddam in the Iran-Iraq War (even though the US was secretly helping the Iranians as well).
Fighting IS needs to be a coalition of many countries otherwise it's going to be viewed by the idiotic aggressors as the US sticking its nose in. The UN needs to sanction military action and IS should be put down by forces from across the globe.
I think arming the Iraq soldiers is a good idea. Then send in the troops to defeat the larger packs of ISIS troops with the help of air strikes.
Destroy their tanks and vehicles. Are they growing because more people believe in their evil ways or because they are forcing people to convert...
Arming the Iraqi Kurds is a good idea. I don't think arming the Iraqi army is actually a good idea, because I wouldn't trust the Sunnis in the Iraqi Army. I think the Sunnis in the Iraqi army are the reason why IS was able to steal so many weapons from the army at the first place. When Al-Malikki was in power, Sunnis were refusing to take part in the Iraqi government and army and many Sunnis had deserted from the army, which enabled the terrorists to advance further. Now, things have changed and Iraq has new unity government, but still, there are many Sunnis within the Iraqi government who actually secretly support IS and their agenda.
Wouldn't be the first time. Even during huge Cold War tension in the 80s both the US and the Soviets assisted Saddam in the Iran-Iraq War (even though the US was secretly helping the Iranians as well).
Fighting IS needs to be a coalition of many countries otherwise it's going to be viewed by the idiotic aggressors as the US sticking its nose in. The UN needs to sanction military action and IS should be put down by forces from across the globe.
Surely the killing of innocent American and UK citizens, and then publishing it live on video is provocation enough to justify military action ?
We have to be careful of the usual "collateral damage"..as we euphemistically like to call it. But any action against IS forces in Syria or Iraq, however brutal or destructive, is now justified. In fact it's now inevitable, why wait ?
I keep on having flashbacks to the Lee Rigby murder.Watching that Muslim black guy with the knife in his blood soaked hand.Ranting and raving as people walked past him.
I knew that day, that something had gone horribly wrong with this country.
I felt sick and angry that things had fallen to such a state in this once proud nation of ours.
Wasn't he was raised a Christian by his Christian parents?
Once groups of men - and sometimes women - access that primevil part of their brain, it doesn't mater what nationality or religion they are. The Nazi's were white..
How blind do you have to be in this day and age to bring your children up as part of a religion that is getting more and more extreme with every passing year?
Where does the buck stop?
I would much prefer to see the families of these murderers suffer than seeing the families of soldiers suffer.
The soldiers don't get a choice. Sent to the various hellholes and told to fight with one hand tied behind their backs.
One of Lee Rigby's killers was brought up as a Christian..
There is a danger of IS growing in size if people from neighbouring countries join them after IS take control of the neighbouring countries. If they gain control of all countries that have Islam as their main religion, they might become powerful enough to take on nearly any country.
I don't want to bore everyone with a history lesson here but IS's main objective seems to be the establishment of a Caliphate in the region. Since they're fanatical Moslems they are likely inspired by how Islam initially grew and spread from what is now Saudi Arabia and into the neighbouring Arab world.
Iraq (old Mesopotamia) was conquered and that's still their primary objective. Syria is the next obvious target. The old Persian Empire (Iran and Afghanistan) may be too much to handle but I'm guessing if they want to aggressively expand then the next target would be the old Byzantine Empire, which means Turkey and, more importantly for Western interests, the Levant.
Once they get control of Syria then Israel will be next.
They won't be expanding when the US air force keeps dropping bombs on their head and Israel is heavily armed and also has The Bomb so ISIS taking over there is unlikely. Teaming up with Assad seems the most logical move right now although that would be a U turn that could backfire but I think getting rid of ISIS is the number one concern.
Comments
It's ok. I forgive you.
You can bet your bottom dollar the leader of this gang is not one bit religious and is enjoying his power like the terrorist that he is.
Well allegedly he is a Muslim, who wasn't born in America and therefore isn't really an American and he is trying to introduce communism by attempting to provide universal healthcare.
There are a great many ultra rightwing American groups who talk an awful lot of shit about Obama, I think it should all be taken with a very large pinch of salt.
Wow, the crazies really come out at night on this forum.
Hopefully most of them have been forced to join and would flea when against the power of USA/Europe/AUS if they send in troops.
I really hope the Jihad John is the first one dead, what a complete failure of a human being
Yes, I expect that will happen.
According to some families who have son's missing to IS, have contacted their families and said they were forced to join/fight and want out.
The past two decades have in no small part been a hell of our own making. The Middle East has been unstable since the fall of the Ottoman Empire because of the deep sectarian divide between Shia and Sunni Moslems - Saudi is Sunni (and the more repressive Sunni-based Wahhabist), Afghanistan is also Sunni, Iran is Shia and Iraq is a mixture of the two with Shia being a slight majority. Iraq has been at the epicentre of the sectarian struggle throughout.
The West's mistake is that we ever got involved in taking sides in the first place. Worst of all we tried to impose Western democracy on Iraq after the second Gulf War which to many Iraqis is just as bad as the idea of us living under Sharia law in Britain - an imposition of a foreign style of government. As others have said here many Iraqis don't want democracy.
IS is now the new wave of aggressive and brutal Sunni extremism seeking dominance in the region, so right now if we are going to intervene (and we should since Western people are being targeted by these monsters) then we need to give full support to Shia Moslems and that means cosying up to Assad's Shia government in Syria and also to Iran, neither of which are an enticing prospect.
It's all a complete f***ing mess.
EDIT - I see the post above just said all that in more detail.
I totally agree and have said before it is a tragedy for the world that these countries all have such vast oil reserves.
Otherwise we could have left them all to it and shitholes like Saudi Arabia would be seen for the barbaric dark age society it really is.
I'm not defending that piece of scum however chances are that he was chosen to kill these poor people because he's british and has an accent. But these beheadings were reordered for maximum shock/effect once posted online. I'm sure there's plenty more of these idiots who have done far worse but hasn't been recorded.
What's strange for me is they seem to want the US to stop bombing them but at the same time it almost feels as if they are trying to force us into going in to get them. I think the longer they continue to grow and do what they're doing, the more likely it is that other nations will come onside and start fighting them.
My main worry is that if we do go in, they will try and kidnap soldiers and well....you know. As for it's only a 'small group of muslims', well it seems they aren't so small and they're growing.
Just because some more enlightened modern muslims don't interpret the Koran in the the same way as the nutters of the IS, that doesn't make it a peaceful religion.
There is no single correct way to interpret a book, especially one written so long ago.
If islam is being used as a guide to commit atrocities, murder innocents and oppress people then it is a violent religion, it really is as simple as that.
Who are you to decide which interpretation is correct ?
Are you the reincarnation of Mohammed ?
I think arming the Iraq soldiers is a good idea. Then send in the troops to defeat the larger packs of ISIS troops with the help of air strikes.
Destroy their tanks and vehicles. Are they growing because more people believe in their evil ways or because they are forcing people to convert...
Imagine Assad, Putin and Obama all in 1 team against ISIS. That would be a true example of uniting against evil
Great post, I agree 100%.
Sometimes, in the interests of peace and stability, it means cosying up to some unpalatable people. I had the utmost respect for the late Robin Cook, and he was correct about going to war in Iraq. But his ideas about an "ethical foreign policy" are pretty much unworkable in the real world. We need leaders with a real grasp of history and the likely long term effects of our actions. Too many short term, knee jerk reactions have resulted in this bloody mess.
There is a danger of IS growing in size if people from neighbouring countries join them after IS take control of the neighbouring countries. If they gain control of all countries that have Islam as their main religion, they might become powerful enough to take on nearly any country.
But surely there is only a tiny percentage of Islamists who share their evil ideas...the rest of Islam will not join them
Wouldn't be the first time. Even during huge Cold War tension in the 80s both the US and the Soviets assisted Saddam in the Iran-Iraq War (even though the US was secretly helping the Iranians as well).
Fighting IS needs to be a coalition of many countries otherwise it's going to be viewed by the idiotic aggressors as the US sticking its nose in. The UN needs to sanction military action and IS should be put down by forces from across the globe.
Arming the Iraqi Kurds is a good idea. I don't think arming the Iraqi army is actually a good idea, because I wouldn't trust the Sunnis in the Iraqi Army. I think the Sunnis in the Iraqi army are the reason why IS was able to steal so many weapons from the army at the first place. When Al-Malikki was in power, Sunnis were refusing to take part in the Iraqi government and army and many Sunnis had deserted from the army, which enabled the terrorists to advance further. Now, things have changed and Iraq has new unity government, but still, there are many Sunnis within the Iraqi government who actually secretly support IS and their agenda.
As Tesco say.....every little helps. I really hope that more and more in the Middle East go against IS.
Surely the killing of innocent American and UK citizens, and then publishing it live on video is provocation enough to justify military action ?
We have to be careful of the usual "collateral damage"..as we euphemistically like to call it. But any action against IS forces in Syria or Iraq, however brutal or destructive, is now justified. In fact it's now inevitable, why wait ?
Wasn't he was raised a Christian by his Christian parents?
Once groups of men - and sometimes women - access that primevil part of their brain, it doesn't mater what nationality or religion they are. The Nazi's were white..
One of Lee Rigby's killers was brought up as a Christian..
I don't want to bore everyone with a history lesson here but IS's main objective seems to be the establishment of a Caliphate in the region. Since they're fanatical Moslems they are likely inspired by how Islam initially grew and spread from what is now Saudi Arabia and into the neighbouring Arab world.
Iraq (old Mesopotamia) was conquered and that's still their primary objective. Syria is the next obvious target. The old Persian Empire (Iran and Afghanistan) may be too much to handle but I'm guessing if they want to aggressively expand then the next target would be the old Byzantine Empire, which means Turkey and, more importantly for Western interests, the Levant.
Once they get control of Syria then Israel will be next.