If people didn't make such comments there would be no need to mention it.
But often the cry of 'racism' goes up whenever someone dares to make a point about living in modern Britain.
That is the trouble - just look at Rotherham.
And (unfortunately) there are thousands of IS sympathiser in the UK and hundreds of UK 'citizens' fighting for them - my point was that no one would want to watch a totally realistic depiction of the Eastend.
Anyway the BBC would never touch any extremism storyline with a barge pole - Shabs (and her secret) would have been perfect for this.
We want to watch Eastenders the programme not a documentary.
i understand you've got a right to your views and you're only stating your opinión, but I don't understand why you seem so dead set on EE showing "genuine representation of these groups", I really can't fathom why that is so important to anyone?
EE is a story, going round and round four times a week, it's about murder, arson, affairs, money troubles, family arguments etc and it's about characters that the majority of the watching audience will and can relate to.
Noone is going to be interested in watching a bunch of somalians or albanians or romanians or bangladeshis etc going about their lives. No point having such different characters if the writers can't fit a story around them, one that people will care about.
And as for what Julia Smith and Tony Holland did. Have you ever wondered why they chose to write a soap about the actual East End? And not the west end, or north or south London? It's because the EE has always had a rich history, from their original cockney to the Kray Twins, and they obviously knew that their audience would want to watch characters from that área than from a middleclass suburb for example.
There is just something about cockneys and the original East End that people like (even if they're not londoners).
I imagine that if Julia Smith and Tony Holland were around today, and wanted to make a soap about London, they still could. It isn't a necessity that they'd have to include every single ethnic group!
A film can be very true to life, but they cast who they want to be in it, so why not the same for EE?
No one's asking to tick every box, it's just about realism and going back to the basic concept Julia Smith and Tony Holland about reflecting the East End. The simple fact is the cast don't do it; and no one can debate that. Sadly, go to the East End now and you won't see what EE is portraying.
Characters should not be added simply because of their ethnic origin, they should have depth, bring something new to the square and be involved in the life of the square with the potential of multiple storylines. DTC has done a superb job in getting the show back on its feet and the cast is at a really great place. I'm thoroughly excited for this month, this Christmas and the LB reveal for the 30th. Having rich characters in the midst of deep storylines exploring real life personal and social issues is great.
A realistic depiction in terms of ethnicity, demographics and occupations only adds to the great work DTC is doing now.
Firstly, Eastenders is already really diverse. We have a Muslim family, black chacters, dual heritage characters, a bisexual, a lesbian couple, two young gay men, a woman in a wheelchair, a Latvian and a half Italian. There is a Polish Deli in the Turpin road shops.
Then we have characters who are DJ's and artists living on the square, giving it a modern edginess. it's richness of characters is pushing the show back to its glory days.
However, I strongly feel that the production team should not listen to someone sitting in an office who tells them to introduce more diverse characters just so they can look like they are being politically correct. It's the story lines and characters that matter here, that's what should lead the way.
And when I say alienating viewers, I mean in terms of keeping the shows identity in place. Getting rid of the families who the viewers are familiar with, who provide us with the history of the show is what will alienate viewers. But you would have to do that yo make way for all these new characters.
You clearly don't know enough about the show or the East End. Firstly, I am not sitting in an office and I am not calling for political correctness what I am calling for a representation of the East End. Sure, EastEnders has an element of diversity which is impressive but if you look at the East End and look at the show, you see a huge discrepancy: 42/51. Tony Holland and Julia Smith said, "above all, we wanted realism". Why? Because with a realistic portrayal of the East End, you drive the gritty drama etc. This is more to do with your lack of understanding about story telling. Also, the actual communities that live in areas like Newham and Tower Hamlets are not represented. The dialect that people speak is only used by two characters. Now, if you are a show about the East End, you have to take that into account. Secondly, you are deliberately boiling it down to race. It's not just race but demographics, occupation etc hence why I mentioned tech entrepreneurs from Old Street and hipsters. There should characters who fit that mould too.
You won't have to replace existing characters, that's nonsense. You could have more characters and smarter casting in terms of extras too. You could reintroduce characters you could fit that description for eg. Zsa Zsa comes back as a hipster. You're just trying to pacify the minority of racists on this site.
You clearly don't know enough about the show or the East End. Firstly, I am not sitting in an office and I am not calling for political correctness what I am calling for a representation of the East End. Sure, EastEnders has an element of diversity which is impressive but if you look at the East End and look at the show, you see a huge discrepancy: 42/51. Tony Holland and Julia Smith said, "above all, we wanted realism". Why? Because with a realistic portrayal of the East End, you drive the gritty drama etc. This is more to do with your lack of understanding about story telling. Also, the actual communities that live in areas like Newham and Tower Hamlets are not represented. The dialect that people speak is only used by two characters. Now, if you are a show about the East End, you have to take that into account. Secondly, you are deliberately boiling it down to race. It's not just race but demographics, occupation etc hence why I mentioned tech entrepreneurs from Old Street and hipsters. There should characters who fit that mould too.
You won't have to replace existing characters, that's nonsense. You could have more characters and smarter casting in terms of extras too. You could reintroduce characters you could fit that description for eg. Zsa Zsa comes back as a hipster. You're just trying to pacify the minority of racists on this site.
Once again, feel free to argue any point I make but saying things such as "you don't know the show" are pointless and won't get you anywhere. And no, I don't know huge amounts about the current eastenders but my knowledge of the area is not really relevant for this discussion here. And I am not sure why you are criticising my knowledge for storytelling
And I don't get your argument about my previous post being deliberately pointed at race only. That's simply not true, I only mentioned race when I listed those characters who already make it a diverse cast. I also pointed out the show already has artists (Lauren) and Dj's (fat boy) and it's characters like those who help to make the show more contemporary. I agree they do have the opportunity to build on this.
I wasn't talking about you when I mentioned the person sitting in the office, I meant the people who constructed the report referenced in the article you mentioned in a previous post btw.
Now, when Tony and Julia created Eastenders they had a clear slate to do what they wanted. The fact they based the show on real East End families made it successful. However, the show has now been running for thirty years. It has an identity of its own and has shifted away from the East End that we see today. Waving a magic wand and completely changing the shows identity to match the current East End will be detrimental. Viewers hate it when their shows change completely and having a huge overhaul like you suggested in your Opening Post will alienate viewers.
As I have said in my previous posts, the show has to be more subtle and slow in doing this as that will alienate viewers.
I have not said that there should not be characters who talk like Fatboy and a Dexter. It's just they need to be interesting too. Fat boy is devoid of a personality and Dexter is a selfish mummy's boy. They hold no interest to me as a viewer. If they were played by good actors, were written well and given good story lines then I would welcome them with open arms. If they are characters that are there merely because there are people who talk like that in a Tower Hamlets and nothing more then these characters will amount to nothing.
This has already been discussed to death on this forum. Whilst I agree that the cast should be mixed as much as is feasible - the demographic of the ethnic mix is decided by who watches the show. This is reflected in the casting and why we have characters of Caribbean origin and Asian origin because these families have been part of the British cultural mix for many decades. In the majority of the country outside of London there are not large quantities of Somalians who have integrated with the indigenous population. If the producers introduced a whole street of characters who didn't speak English as their first language the majority of viewers would just turn off. EE is not a documentary about real life in the Eastend it is just a drama series.
You clearly don't know enough about the show or the East End. Firstly, I am not sitting in an office and I am not calling for political correctness what I am calling for a representation of the East End. Sure, EastEnders has an element of diversity which is impressive but if you look at the East End and look at the show, you see a huge discrepancy: 42/51. Tony Holland and Julia Smith said, "above all, we wanted realism". Why? Because with a realistic portrayal of the East End, you drive the gritty drama etc. This is more to do with your lack of understanding about story telling. Also, the actual communities that live in areas like Newham and Tower Hamlets are not represented. The dialect that people speak is only used by two characters. Now, if you are a show about the East End, you have to take that into account. Secondly, you are deliberately boiling it down to race. It's not just race but demographics, occupation etc hence why I mentioned tech entrepreneurs from Old Street and hipsters. There should characters who fit that mould too.
You won't have to replace existing characters, that's nonsense. You could have more characters and smarter casting in terms of extras too. You could reintroduce characters you could fit that description for eg. Zsa Zsa comes back as a hipster. You're just trying to pacify the minority of racists on this site.
Once again, feel free to argue any point I make but saying things such as "you don't know the show" are pointless and won't get you anywhere. And no, I don't know huge amounts about the current eastenders but my knowledge of the area is not really relevant for this discussion here. And I am not sure why you are criticising my knowledge for storytelling
And I don't get your argument about my previous post being deliberately pointed at race only. That's simply not true, I only mentioned race when I listed those characters who already make it a diverse cast. I also pointed out the show already has artists (Lauren) and Dj's (fat boy) and it's characters like those who help to make the show more contemporary. I agree they do have the opportunity to build on this.
I wasn't talking about you when I mentioned the person sitting in the office, I meant the people who constructed the report referenced in the article you mentioned in a previous post btw.
Now, when Tony and Julia created Eastenders they had a clear slate to do what they wanted. The fact they based the show on real East End families made it successful. However, the show has now been running for thirty years. It has an identity of its own and has shifted away from the East End that we see today. Waving a magic wand and completely changing the shows identity to match the current East End will be detrimental. Viewers hate it when their shows change completely and having a huge overhaul like you suggested in your Opening Post will alienate viewers.
As I have said in my previous posts, the show has to be more subtle and slow in doing this as that will alienate viewers.
I have not said that there should not be characters who talk like Fatboy and a Dexter. It's just they need to be interesting too. Fat boy is devoid of a personality and Dexter is a selfish mummy's boy. They hold no interest to me as a viewer. If they were played by good actors, were written well and given good story lines then I would welcome them with open arms. If they are characters that are there merely because there are people who talk like that in a Tower Hamlets and nothing more then these characters will amount to nothing.
This has already been discussed to death on this forum. Whilst I agree that the cast should be mixed as much as is feasible - the demographic of the ethnic mix is decided by who watches the show. This is reflected in the casting and why we have characters of Caribbean origin and Asian origin because these families have been part of the British cultural mix for many decades. In the majority of the country outside of London there are not large quantities of Somalians who have integrated with the indigenous population. If the producers introduced a whole street of characters who didn't speak English as their first language the majority of viewers would just turn off. EE is not a documentary about real life in the Eastend it is just a drama series.
I'm sorry, but I can't remember the last episode where Fatboy DJ'd or when Lauren's artistic side was even mentioned; DJ-ing and art were presented as their hobbies or to an extent something part-time (in Fatboy's case) - not full-time occupations.
I'm really confused as to why the word "documentary" keeps on coming up......EE can still be a drama series with a multicultural cast, reflecting the East End?? The statement that a bunch of characters from an ethnic minority introduced would be people who don't speak English as their first language is the kind of insulting comment that prevents multiculturalism.
Scrabbler, I definitely agree change should be gradual and the viewers should be respected. But the Slaters' and the Millers' first appearances were in one episode, a new family can be introduced in this way. The Carters in the same way, with the extensions of Stan and Aunt Babe after. At the same time, the Brannings or the Mitchells were a slower progression.
I understand that shows change and series move on, but if DTC is getting the show back to its roots, then I still believe that Julia Smith and Tony Holland's view to not make life, reflect it and mirror the East End, then more characters of ethnic minority, characters with more dynamic and current occupations and characters from a wider demographics should be introduced. Not saying all in the next month or before the new year at all, but in the foreseeable future.
Erm no, how about you stop being stupid and rude saying the comment is 'invalid', what he is saying is right, you want EastEnders to be something it isn't, it's about gritty storylines and drama, and characters we love, not dexter and fatboy smoking weed at a cocktail bar:/
I agree Lou and commenting "zzzzz" is just as rude isn't it?
Once again, feel free to argue any point I make but saying things such as "you don't know the show" are pointless and won't get you anywhere. And no, I don't know huge amounts about the current eastenders but my knowledge of the area is not really relevant for this discussion here. And I am not sure why you are criticising my knowledge for storytelling
And I don't get your argument about my previous post being deliberately pointed at race only. That's simply not true, I only mentioned race when I listed those characters who already make it a diverse cast. I also pointed out the show already has artists (Lauren) and Dj's (fat boy) and it's characters like those who help to make the show more contemporary. I agree they do have the opportunity to build on this.
I wasn't talking about you when I mentioned the person sitting in the office, I meant the people who constructed the report referenced in the article you mentioned in a previous post btw.
Now, when Tony and Julia created Eastenders they had a clear slate to do what they wanted. The fact they based the show on real East End families made it successful. However, the show has now been running for thirty years. It has an identity of its own and has shifted away from the East End that we see today. Waving a magic wand and completely changing the shows identity to match the current East End will be detrimental. Viewers hate it when their shows change completely and having a huge overhaul like you suggested in your Opening Post will alienate viewers.
As I have said in my previous posts, the show has to be more subtle and slow in doing this as that will alienate viewers.
I have not said that there should not be characters who talk like Fatboy and a Dexter. It's just they need to be interesting too. Fat boy is devoid of a personality and Dexter is a selfish mummy's boy. They hold no interest to me as a viewer. If they were played by good actors, were written well and given good story lines then I would welcome them with open arms. If they are characters that are there merely because there are people who talk like that in a Tower Hamlets and nothing more then these characters will amount to nothing.
Again, you show a lack of understanding about the show. Let's start with your first point, the idea that having one character who studies art at college and someone who DJed somehow makes the show contemporary is utter drivel and has nothing to do with making it a better representation of the East End. Again, your comment on Holland/Smith is again wrong. Even John Yorke would dispute what you said. The reason why the show is so different is because successive producers have ignored change in the East End and have been way to lacklustre. It's got nothing to do with 'the show's own identity'. EastEnders is about gritty, Shakespearean drama with realism and it should stay true to that. What don't you understand? Big sweeping changes? It would not alienate viewers but appeal to people. Your point on Dexter and Fatboy shows how out of touch you are. Dexter and Fatboy are very popular characters who have won awards because of their authenticity. It proves my point!
This has already been discussed to death on this forum. Whilst I agree that the cast should be mixed as much as is feasible - the demographic of the ethnic mix is decided by who watches the show. This is reflected in the casting and why we have characters of Caribbean origin and Asian origin because these families have been part of the British cultural mix for many decades. In the majority of the country outside of London there are not large quantities of Somalians who have integrated with the indigenous population. If the producers introduced a whole street of characters who didn't speak English as their first language the majority of viewers would just turn off. EE is not a documentary about real life in the Eastend it is just a drama series.
That is true but if you look at the East End, you have Bangladeshis, Somalis and West Africans. A show that calls itself 'EastEnders' should at least have that. You say (like others' "it's not a documentary". Right so should it not have the Cockney accent? Should it get rid of references to red buses? Should it get rid of Walford East Underground station? Why not have any mention of London etc? That's the ridiculous side of the argument. Once you accept that EastEnders has to have a dose of realism, then it means realism or nothing. Also, no one is calling for there to be non-English speaking characters, that's just slander and offensive. But why are you just wittling down to race? What about culture, demographic and occupation or social change etc? Your argument has failed on this one.
I actually think it's perfectly realistic for Albert Square to be mainly white
Albert Square is a lower-middle class area, not a VERY poor area. I was in the East End the other day and a lot of the immigrants were in the very poor, gritty parts.
It would have been realistic for there to be lots of immigrants and lower class people in the 80's as Albert Square was a bit of a dump back then, but now the square is actually relatively nice and a lot of new immigrant probably wouldn't be able to afford it. Remember the square is based off Fassett Square, and that's a relatively middle class area now.
By the way, BringBackZsaZsa, I think you lost your own argument when you announced how little characters actually own the houses in the square. Only very few own their houses, and because of that that means that the rest of the characters will be their families living with them. I mean a white person is hardly going to have a ton of relatives from a different race.
However, I do agree that we probably should be seeing more different races in the background in the market area and stuff, as that's a bit more poor/gritty than the square itself.
Comments
But often the cry of 'racism' goes up whenever someone dares to make a point about living in modern Britain.
That is the trouble - just look at Rotherham.
And (unfortunately) there are thousands of IS sympathiser in the UK and hundreds of UK 'citizens' fighting for them - my point was that no one would want to watch a totally realistic depiction of the Eastend.
Anyway the BBC would never touch any extremism storyline with a barge pole - Shabs (and her secret) would have been perfect for this.
We want to watch Eastenders the programme not a documentary.
No one's asking to tick every box, it's just about realism and going back to the basic concept Julia Smith and Tony Holland about reflecting the East End. The simple fact is the cast don't do it; and no one can debate that. Sadly, go to the East End now and you won't see what EE is portraying.
Characters should not be added simply because of their ethnic origin, they should have depth, bring something new to the square and be involved in the life of the square with the potential of multiple storylines. DTC has done a superb job in getting the show back on its feet and the cast is at a really great place. I'm thoroughly excited for this month, this Christmas and the LB reveal for the 30th. Having rich characters in the midst of deep storylines exploring real life personal and social issues is great.
A realistic depiction in terms of ethnicity, demographics and occupations only adds to the great work DTC is doing now.
In general I still think the cast is too white.
42/51 characters are white.
It's not tokenism, it's multiculturalism - depicting what London, and in particular the East End, is like. Real life.
You won't have to replace existing characters, that's nonsense. You could have more characters and smarter casting in terms of extras too. You could reintroduce characters you could fit that description for eg. Zsa Zsa comes back as a hipster. You're just trying to pacify the minority of racists on this site.
Once again, feel free to argue any point I make but saying things such as "you don't know the show" are pointless and won't get you anywhere. And no, I don't know huge amounts about the current eastenders but my knowledge of the area is not really relevant for this discussion here. And I am not sure why you are criticising my knowledge for storytelling
And I don't get your argument about my previous post being deliberately pointed at race only. That's simply not true, I only mentioned race when I listed those characters who already make it a diverse cast. I also pointed out the show already has artists (Lauren) and Dj's (fat boy) and it's characters like those who help to make the show more contemporary. I agree they do have the opportunity to build on this.
I wasn't talking about you when I mentioned the person sitting in the office, I meant the people who constructed the report referenced in the article you mentioned in a previous post btw.
Now, when Tony and Julia created Eastenders they had a clear slate to do what they wanted. The fact they based the show on real East End families made it successful. However, the show has now been running for thirty years. It has an identity of its own and has shifted away from the East End that we see today. Waving a magic wand and completely changing the shows identity to match the current East End will be detrimental. Viewers hate it when their shows change completely and having a huge overhaul like you suggested in your Opening Post will alienate viewers.
As I have said in my previous posts, the show has to be more subtle and slow in doing this as that will alienate viewers.
I have not said that there should not be characters who talk like Fatboy and a Dexter. It's just they need to be interesting too. Fat boy is devoid of a personality and Dexter is a selfish mummy's boy. They hold no interest to me as a viewer. If they were played by good actors, were written well and given good story lines then I would welcome them with open arms. If they are characters that are there merely because there are people who talk like that in a Tower Hamlets and nothing more then these characters will amount to nothing.
It's not real!
Amazing.
I'm sorry, but I can't remember the last episode where Fatboy DJ'd or when Lauren's artistic side was even mentioned; DJ-ing and art were presented as their hobbies or to an extent something part-time (in Fatboy's case) - not full-time occupations.
I'm really confused as to why the word "documentary" keeps on coming up......EE can still be a drama series with a multicultural cast, reflecting the East End?? The statement that a bunch of characters from an ethnic minority introduced would be people who don't speak English as their first language is the kind of insulting comment that prevents multiculturalism.
Scrabbler, I definitely agree change should be gradual and the viewers should be respected. But the Slaters' and the Millers' first appearances were in one episode, a new family can be introduced in this way. The Carters in the same way, with the extensions of Stan and Aunt Babe after. At the same time, the Brannings or the Mitchells were a slower progression.
I understand that shows change and series move on, but if DTC is getting the show back to its roots, then I still believe that Julia Smith and Tony Holland's view to not make life, reflect it and mirror the East End, then more characters of ethnic minority, characters with more dynamic and current occupations and characters from a wider demographics should be introduced. Not saying all in the next month or before the new year at all, but in the foreseeable future.
I agree Lou and commenting "zzzzz" is just as rude isn't it?
Again, you show a lack of understanding about the show. Let's start with your first point, the idea that having one character who studies art at college and someone who DJed somehow makes the show contemporary is utter drivel and has nothing to do with making it a better representation of the East End. Again, your comment on Holland/Smith is again wrong. Even John Yorke would dispute what you said. The reason why the show is so different is because successive producers have ignored change in the East End and have been way to lacklustre. It's got nothing to do with 'the show's own identity'. EastEnders is about gritty, Shakespearean drama with realism and it should stay true to that. What don't you understand? Big sweeping changes? It would not alienate viewers but appeal to people. Your point on Dexter and Fatboy shows how out of touch you are. Dexter and Fatboy are very popular characters who have won awards because of their authenticity. It proves my point!
Albert Square is a lower-middle class area, not a VERY poor area. I was in the East End the other day and a lot of the immigrants were in the very poor, gritty parts.
It would have been realistic for there to be lots of immigrants and lower class people in the 80's as Albert Square was a bit of a dump back then, but now the square is actually relatively nice and a lot of new immigrant probably wouldn't be able to afford it. Remember the square is based off Fassett Square, and that's a relatively middle class area now.
By the way, BringBackZsaZsa, I think you lost your own argument when you announced how little characters actually own the houses in the square. Only very few own their houses, and because of that that means that the rest of the characters will be their families living with them. I mean a white person is hardly going to have a ton of relatives from a different race.
However, I do agree that we probably should be seeing more different races in the background in the market area and stuff, as that's a bit more poor/gritty than the square itself.