The "Yes" camp lost their momentum at the exact moment Salmond claimed that a Yes vote was a mandate for the SNP to implement whatever measures they wanted.
I know a number of undecided voters who settled on No at that point.
Given the turnout and the closeness of the vote it's clear that things are going to have to change for Scotland. The way it's happened, this might be a more stable starting point than a yes vote woud have provided. It'll take longer but it could produce more good for the country than having, say, 45% of people railoaded into independence, which is a pretty massive change.
From here, it feels like a good result as long as the actual 45% are listened to. As you say, some of the 55% may share their concerns.
I agree - and hope that it means change for the rest of the UK. Westminster is just too remote; too partisan; too 'plastic' to really represent the people of any area.
Or, looking at it in a different way, everywhere except for Glasgow, North Lanarkshire, Dundee and West Dumbartonshire voted to remain part of the UK.
You should be fine as long as you avoid those places. ;-)
I've managed to avoid Scotland all my life. Never been there and never felt inclined to make the 240+ mile trip to get there so can't say I'm really bothered. Maybe one day I will muster up the motivation to drive all that way to see it but until then all I'm interested in is the impact it has on the English economy.
I was testing my internet speed and pinging some.servers the other day and I was surprised to see that it was closer for my computer to ping Rotterdam than it was Aberdeen. It just highlights how far away Scotland is for a lot of us. It may as well be a foreign country.
Yeah, right. You're obviously someone who knows little about politics.
Tories. Right wing party, fairly moderate with Cameron but some nasty, hard line extremists are always lurking in the background.
Liberal Democrats. Centre right party. Looked promising for a while, then showed their true colours by cosying up to the Tories for a few crumbs of power.
New Labour. Centre right party who abandoned any true Labour credentials years ago.
Then theres UKIP...
Some choice.
There will also be numerous small left-wing parties on the ballot if that's your bag.
There's also the Greens. There are also independents. If your in Scotland there's the SNP, or PC in Wales.
"There's no choice" is a cop out. Thers's plenty of choice. Vote with your conscience and if the result doesn't go your way simply accept that on this occasion not enough of the electorate agreed with you.
No, but do the smug faces of Alistair Darling, William Hague and Danny Alexander make you feel all warm inside. Just been watching them, sick inducing.
'Cos, of course, if it had been a Yes vote, Salmond and his cronies would have been gracious and humble in victory, right?
I'm relived. Maybe now the Plaid Cymru halfwits who harp on about Welsh independent will wind their necks in, shut up and accept that it's never going to happen.
'Cos, of course, if it had been a Yes vote, Salmond and his cronies would have been gracious and humble in victory, right?
I'm not sure about Salmond. Magnanimous in defeat? A representative of all his fellow Scots? Not for me. Instead of accepting the will of the people and endeavouring to pursue all the interests of the people now they have voted no, he came across as quite contrite and almost bitter at the result. Immediately calling on the UK Government to back up their promises. No congratulations, no smiles, no nothing.
Or, looking at it in a different way, everywhere except for Glasgow, North Lanarkshire, Dundee and West Dumbartonshire voted to remain part of the UK.
You should be fine as long as you avoid those places. ;-)
That's what I find a bit confusing. Of course Glasgow is highly populous but the other three Yes regions must be as well, surely, in order to get a 55/45 split? I mean, Edinburgh is also highly populous but must have voted No.
Is nationalism largely a phenomenon of disaffected Glasgow folk, I wonder.
I'm relived. Maybe now the Plaid Cymru halfwits who harp on about Welsh independent will wind their necks in, shut up and accept that it's never going to happen.
Yep, they can just stick to setting fire to english caravans and speaking welsh as soon as someone english walks into one of their shops...
I'm relived. Maybe now the Plaid Cymru halfwits who harp on about Welsh independent will wind their necks in, shut up and accept that it's never going to happen.
Why are the Scottish, Welsh and NI nationalists always demonised? Some of the rhetoric (on both sides) is ridiculous. They're allowed there opinion ffs. Irish, Scottish and Welsh nationalism = bad, British patriotism = good is it?
I'm relived. Maybe now the Plaid Cymru halfwits who harp on about Welsh independent will wind their necks in, shut up and accept that it's never going to happen.
Never is a big word. I am one of those 'halfwits' and actually, like many of my fellow members of Plaid, do not think independence is something to aim for in the near or even mid future. We want more devolved powers for Wales however - and most important of all the correct funding.
I was testing my internet speed and pinging some.servers the other day and I was surprised to see that it was closer for my computer to ping Rotterdam than it was Aberdeen. It just highlights how far away Scotland is for a lot of us. It may as well be a foreign country.
Yeah, that's pretty-much how Scotland and most of England feel about London too.
I don't think it was a case of fear winning the day for the No camp, I think the Yes camp lost it because of their vague wishy washy "of course it will be ok", "I know all of the EU says we can't but they are just bullying us" and "Of course they will let us join the EU but not take the Euro". If they put more effort into facts and less into rhetoric I think they could have won.
I also think that Salmond was a hindrance, I occasionally heard statements that one man did not constitute the whole Yes camp but you could be forgiven for thinking he did.
I think that Salmond/Sturgeon never came up answers, just quoting a tame academic or two who said Scotland will become a land of unicorns and rainbows if you vote yes, did not pass muster.
Lions lead by donkeys would some up the yes campaign.
Why are the Scottish, Welsh and NI nationalists always demonised? Some of the rhetoric (on both sides) is ridiculous. They're allowed there opinion ffs. Irish, Scottish and Welsh nationalism = bad, British patriotism = good is it?
I'm not demonising them, but I have some issues with the way a vocal minority (and they are the minority) are trying to force the Welsh language on the English speaking majority. I've no doubt that none Welsh speakers would be demonised and treated like second class citizens in their own land if god forbid Waes ever gained independence, hell it's even happening to some extent now!
I've no objection to the Welsh langauge taking precedence over English in parts of the country where the majority speak Welsh as a first language, but most people in Wales don't speak it at all. The money wasted on pushing the Welsh langauge could be far better spent on improving public services IMO.
I know I'm going to get flamed by this by the way but it's just my opinion.
I think that Salmond/Sturgeon never came up answers, just quoting a tame academic or two who said Scotland will become a land of unicorns and rainbows if you vote yes, did not pass muster.
I believe that Unicorn farming and the nationalisation of all gold found at the end of rainbows was in fact the finance plan for when the oil ran out.
Yeah, that's pretty-much how Scotland and most of England feel about London too.
I can't think of any other examples of where several neighbouring counties are controlled by one government and a shared head of state. As far as I can recall most countries have their own government. The UK must be one of the very few if not the only nation which doesn't.
Maybe a solution would be to adopt local policies silimar to interstate laws in the USA whereby individual states or in our case, regions can make certain laws which relate directly to that region. Devolve more powers back to local authorities to give people a bigger say on matters that affect them rather than be dictated to by Westminster and same view for Wales and N.I.
At what cost to the rest of the UK with Scotland's extra "raft of goodies".
But we're not talking purely money here. Surely little will change, with regards to the economy. All were talking about is giving Scotland more powers to control what goes on in Scotland and if that has a knock on effect with England, Wales and N.I which means we will all get more powers to make more locally based decisions then I think it's a win-win situation for everybody.
Surely it's better to allow local authorties to make certain decisions on a local level rather than be dictated to by a load of people in London. For example I think the smoking ban is one of those laws which should have been implemented at a local level to give local authorities a choice of whether to adopt an all out ban or to allow certain authorities to considder a partial ban or rework it so that it worked best for certain rural communities where perhaps a blanket ban could affect rural businesses. At present our laws are a 'one size fits all' and that simply doesn't work when Britain is such a diverse nation.
Why are the Scottish, Welsh and NI nationalists always demonised? Some of the rhetoric (on both sides) is ridiculous. They're allowed there opinion ffs. Irish, Scottish and Welsh nationalism = bad, British patriotism = good is it?
I personally have no problem with Irish, Welsh or Scottish nationalists. In my view, they are entitled to make their choices at the ballot box and shouldn't be criticised for it. If the Scots had voted for independence yesterday I would have shrugged my shoulders and got on with life.
But...
The annoying thing about those nationalists.... which really does stick in the throats of the English, is they way we are constantly demonised, slagged off, insulted, abused and blamed for everything that ever went wrong in those countries.
The Welsh attitude of "we always try a bloody sight harder to beat England at rugby". Setting fire to English holiday homes...... talking in Welsh whenever an English person is present and probably hiding behind their language to be abusive and vitriolic.
The Scottish "Anyone but England" attitude in world cups. The constant, repetitious harping on about Bannockburn..... the we-hate-yous attitude that pervades from the very pores of Scottish nationalists.
The Irish even went so far as to wage a terrorist campaign on the English mainland. Not in Wales, not in Scotland... in Birmingham.... Woolwiich... Guildford...... The City of London...
It is always the English who are slagged off, denigrated, cast as the bad guys and scapegoats for everything that might not be wonderful within your own borders. Everything is a "Westminster Plot".... Always the same complaints that "You stole our coal / oil / land".
I wasn't born when Edward I crushed the Welsh and the Scots. I didn't build the bloody castles. I didn't send the potato famine. All those things happened a long time ago. Get over it.
Nothing I, or the vast majority of my countrymen, have ever done could possibly be responsible for the chip on your shoulders.
When the Welsh, Irish and Scots start showing the English a bit more civility and respect, we might be less critical of your nationalist desires.
All this proves is that we're barely hanging onto any idea of inter-country harmony within the UK, we are more divided than ever.
We need to re-energise the economies of northern England, Wales and Scotland and that means taking money off the rich regions via higher taxes and re-distribute into infrastructure and job creation. Stop the rich getting richer and reverse the slide of millions into poverty.
Maybe when the outer regions start seeing some wealth parity with London and SE they may see a future as a proper unified state.
I personally have no problem with Irish, Welsh or Scottish nationalists. In my view, they are entitled to make their choices at the ballot box and shouldn't be criticised for it. If the Scots had voted for independence yesterday I would have shrugged my shoulders and got on with life.
But...
The annoying thing about those nationalists.... which really does stick in the throats of the English, is they way we are constantly demonised, slagged off, insulted, abused and blamed for everything that ever went wrong in those countries.
The Welsh attitude of "we always try a bloody sight harder to beat England at rugby". Setting fire to English holiday homes...... talking in Welsh whenever an English person is present and probably hiding behind their language to be abusive and vitriolic.
The Scottish "Anyone but England" attitude in world cups. The constant, repetitious harping on about Bannockburn..... the we-hate-yous attitude that pervades from the very pores of Scottish nationalists.
The Irish even went so far as to wage a terrorist campaign on the English mainland. Not in Wales, not in Scotland... in Birmingham.... Woolwiich... Guildford...... The City of London...
It is always the English who are slagged off, denigrated, cast as the bad guys and scapegoats for everything that might not be wonderful within your own borders. Everything is a "Westminster Plot".... Always the same complaints that "You stole our coal / oil / land".
I wasn't born when Edward I crushed the Welsh and the Scots. I didn't build the bloody castles. I didn't send the potato famine.
Nothing I, or the vast majority of my countrymen, have ever done could possibly be responsible for the chip on your shoulders.
When the Welsh, Irish and Scots start showing the English a bit more civility and respect, we might be less critical of your nationalist desires.
Heh, the irony of chips on shoulders, it's mostly all in your own mind, get a grip.
Comments
I know a number of undecided voters who settled on No at that point.
I agree - and hope that it means change for the rest of the UK. Westminster is just too remote; too partisan; too 'plastic' to really represent the people of any area.
I've managed to avoid Scotland all my life. Never been there and never felt inclined to make the 240+ mile trip to get there so can't say I'm really bothered. Maybe one day I will muster up the motivation to drive all that way to see it but until then all I'm interested in is the impact it has on the English economy.
I was testing my internet speed and pinging some.servers the other day and I was surprised to see that it was closer for my computer to ping Rotterdam than it was Aberdeen. It just highlights how far away Scotland is for a lot of us. It may as well be a foreign country.
Who doesn't hate Westminster?
There will also be numerous small left-wing parties on the ballot if that's your bag.
There's also the Greens. There are also independents. If your in Scotland there's the SNP, or PC in Wales.
"There's no choice" is a cop out. Thers's plenty of choice. Vote with your conscience and if the result doesn't go your way simply accept that on this occasion not enough of the electorate agreed with you.
'Cos, of course, if it had been a Yes vote, Salmond and his cronies would have been gracious and humble in victory, right?
I'm not sure about Salmond. Magnanimous in defeat? A representative of all his fellow Scots? Not for me. Instead of accepting the will of the people and endeavouring to pursue all the interests of the people now they have voted no, he came across as quite contrite and almost bitter at the result. Immediately calling on the UK Government to back up their promises. No congratulations, no smiles, no nothing.
That's what I find a bit confusing. Of course Glasgow is highly populous but the other three Yes regions must be as well, surely, in order to get a 55/45 split? I mean, Edinburgh is also highly populous but must have voted No.
Is nationalism largely a phenomenon of disaffected Glasgow folk, I wonder.
Yep, they can just stick to setting fire to english caravans and speaking welsh as soon as someone english walks into one of their shops...
Why are the Scottish, Welsh and NI nationalists always demonised? Some of the rhetoric (on both sides) is ridiculous. They're allowed there opinion ffs. Irish, Scottish and Welsh nationalism = bad, British patriotism = good is it?
Never is a big word. I am one of those 'halfwits' and actually, like many of my fellow members of Plaid, do not think independence is something to aim for in the near or even mid future. We want more devolved powers for Wales however - and most important of all the correct funding.
Yeah, that's pretty-much how Scotland and most of England feel about London too.
I think that Salmond/Sturgeon never came up answers, just quoting a tame academic or two who said Scotland will become a land of unicorns and rainbows if you vote yes, did not pass muster.
Lions lead by donkeys would some up the yes campaign.
I'm not demonising them, but I have some issues with the way a vocal minority (and they are the minority) are trying to force the Welsh language on the English speaking majority. I've no doubt that none Welsh speakers would be demonised and treated like second class citizens in their own land if god forbid Waes ever gained independence, hell it's even happening to some extent now!
I've no objection to the Welsh langauge taking precedence over English in parts of the country where the majority speak Welsh as a first language, but most people in Wales don't speak it at all. The money wasted on pushing the Welsh langauge could be far better spent on improving public services IMO.
I know I'm going to get flamed by this by the way but it's just my opinion.
I can't think of any other examples of where several neighbouring counties are controlled by one government and a shared head of state. As far as I can recall most countries have their own government. The UK must be one of the very few if not the only nation which doesn't.
Maybe a solution would be to adopt local policies silimar to interstate laws in the USA whereby individual states or in our case, regions can make certain laws which relate directly to that region. Devolve more powers back to local authorities to give people a bigger say on matters that affect them rather than be dictated to by Westminster and same view for Wales and N.I.
Is it though?
At what cost to the rest of the UK with Scotland's extra "raft of goodies".
But we're not talking purely money here. Surely little will change, with regards to the economy. All were talking about is giving Scotland more powers to control what goes on in Scotland and if that has a knock on effect with England, Wales and N.I which means we will all get more powers to make more locally based decisions then I think it's a win-win situation for everybody.
Surely it's better to allow local authorties to make certain decisions on a local level rather than be dictated to by a load of people in London. For example I think the smoking ban is one of those laws which should have been implemented at a local level to give local authorities a choice of whether to adopt an all out ban or to allow certain authorities to considder a partial ban or rework it so that it worked best for certain rural communities where perhaps a blanket ban could affect rural businesses. At present our laws are a 'one size fits all' and that simply doesn't work when Britain is such a diverse nation.
I personally have no problem with Irish, Welsh or Scottish nationalists. In my view, they are entitled to make their choices at the ballot box and shouldn't be criticised for it. If the Scots had voted for independence yesterday I would have shrugged my shoulders and got on with life.
But...
The annoying thing about those nationalists.... which really does stick in the throats of the English, is they way we are constantly demonised, slagged off, insulted, abused and blamed for everything that ever went wrong in those countries.
The Welsh attitude of "we always try a bloody sight harder to beat England at rugby". Setting fire to English holiday homes...... talking in Welsh whenever an English person is present and probably hiding behind their language to be abusive and vitriolic.
The Scottish "Anyone but England" attitude in world cups. The constant, repetitious harping on about Bannockburn..... the we-hate-yous attitude that pervades from the very pores of Scottish nationalists.
The Irish even went so far as to wage a terrorist campaign on the English mainland. Not in Wales, not in Scotland... in Birmingham.... Woolwiich... Guildford...... The City of London...
It is always the English who are slagged off, denigrated, cast as the bad guys and scapegoats for everything that might not be wonderful within your own borders. Everything is a "Westminster Plot".... Always the same complaints that "You stole our coal / oil / land".
I wasn't born when Edward I crushed the Welsh and the Scots. I didn't build the bloody castles. I didn't send the potato famine. All those things happened a long time ago. Get over it.
Nothing I, or the vast majority of my countrymen, have ever done could possibly be responsible for the chip on your shoulders.
When the Welsh, Irish and Scots start showing the English a bit more civility and respect, we might be less critical of your nationalist desires.
We need to re-energise the economies of northern England, Wales and Scotland and that means taking money off the rich regions via higher taxes and re-distribute into infrastructure and job creation. Stop the rich getting richer and reverse the slide of millions into poverty.
Maybe when the outer regions start seeing some wealth parity with London and SE they may see a future as a proper unified state.
Heh, the irony of chips on shoulders, it's mostly all in your own mind, get a grip.