I'm not going anywhere yet. I work with stroppy teenagers, my hide is like a rhino's. I'm not taking anything too seriously, and I'm certainly not upset.
Rather than report anyone (in any case, I don't think it was merited) I find it better to just say what I'm thinking on the thread.
I was a sysop (we now call them moderators) on one of the very first chat room/forum sites, and then on game sites for many years. There's not much I haven't seen but there are still things I feel I want to comment on.
There's not much more anyone can say. If you take it upon yourself to criticise the personel of this thread that is up to you. We just try to get to info and facts if at all possible.
Jeremy, you have said many times that this may not be the judgements of the judge or something to that effect.
What if she read out a judgement she was told to read by higher up grey suited people and she's been hung out to dry?
That would be awful. She'd get the blame.
Indeed I have and it was on this charge I based my assumptions.
I think it reasonable to say no one, certainly Nel, expected Pistorius to escape the ammunition charge. It was so clear cut or as they say in America a ‘slam dunk’ charge. I certainly could not see any way of him escaping it based on the legislation under which he was charged. I would go as far as to say, any other person, under another judge, would have been found guilty without question.
So the question has to be why was Pistorius found not guilty when he was so obviously guilty?
Clearly because the evidence and the law which pointed to his guilt was so compelling a lot of effort was put into ‘finding a way’ of pronouncing him not guilty.
This effort literally involved producing new case law which could ultimately have serious consequences.
Now, I could give the benefit of the doubt if this situation had been created by Masipa alone, perhaps having a ‘very senior moment’ in her personal desire to find Pistorius not guilty.
However that is not the case, if it were the two assessors would have quickly correct her and explain the situation she was creating. They did not do so!
So I seriously think they were all ‘collectively leaned on’ to get him off the ‘watertight’ firearms charge that carried the greatest penalty by any means possible and with no regards to the consequences.
You already know that I can't get my head round the acquittal on the ammunition charge and I can't even guess how the legal fraternity in SA is going to correct Masipa's error.
I've been doing searches online to see if I can find a precedent where a High Court Judge has had a decision overturned/dismissed urgently in SA but can't find anything.
It is (was) such a basic and clear law that it would seem impossible for Masipa to mess up the way she did.
Don't forget that the law as it stood didallow a citizen to safe keep firearms and ammunition for someone else by the giving a formal letter of authority. Masipa should have needed to look no further than OP didn't have one given by his father. That letter is not even required now.
and that is how hotels are able to let guests store firearms in their safes. they have a special licence.
now they don't need that of course, because they don't have animus to possess whatever is in the safes they provide.
There's not much more anyone can say. If you take it upon yourself to criticise the personel of this thread that is up to you. We just try to get to info and facts if at all possible.
Thank you everyone for the replies about the ammunition verdict! I still find it confusing Luckily I'm not a judge.
Iamtiredmilady - apologies if it's already been asked but as someone with shooting experience (and as I have absolutely no idea what a "good grouping" would be), just objectively, are the holes in the door a "good grouping" for someone firing from 60cm - 3m away?
Sorry I didn't see this to reply last evening.
If you were competent and shooting from pretty much any distance at a target on a range then no, it wouldn't be a good grouping, but you take your time to settle and aim.
On stumps, with high emotion whether anger or fear, in near darkness according to OP or even in light it looks like a fairly good grouping for someone letting rip with a firearm in the heat of the moment. It looked aimed to my OH and me but that said we've never been in a comparable scenario and have never randomly fired at anything.
There's not much more anyone can say. If you take it upon yourself to criticise the personel of this thread that is up to you. We just try to get to info and facts if at all possible.
I think you may have missed Jp's point booty, and I agree, I think some fm's have been rather unfair to scruffy just saying ;-)
Well, if I'm making a few posts and trying to make a point, then someone comes along and say's they have personal experience of what I'm saying and therefore, I'm wrong. Then I believe them.
Am I now getting the treatment that scruffy was supposed to have suffered?
It's very sad reading the messages to each other and they were quite affectionate to each other. Did you see the last message from Reeva to the Myers saying she was going to stay at OP's as she didn't want to drive the long drive back?
It was at 22.00.pm. OP said they both went to sleep at 10.00.pm. so they must have had no trouble falling asleep immediatly on such a hot night??
Or, he checked her phone after the shooting and found her last usage where he could then say nothing regarding the next six hrs. But then he would know nothing about forensics and that anything that may have gone on during that six hrs could come out as there are no other witness's to say for instance, they had a meal, except, of course, the pathologist.
That's a very good point, I hadn't thought that that's how he arrived at the time.
It becomes ever more transparent what really happened, doesn't it.
If you were competent and shooting from pretty much any distance at a target on a range then no, it wouldn't be a good grouping, but you take your time to settle and aim.
On stumps, with high emotion whether anger or fear, in near darkness according to OP or even in light it looks like a fairly good grouping for someone letting rip with a firearm in the heat of the moment. It looked aimed to my OH and me but that said we've never been in a comparable scenario and have never randomly fired at anything.
another consideration has to be that there is no one target as such, with a person somewhere behind a door, also moving between shots.
I think you may have missed Jp's point booty, and I agree, I think some fm's have been rather unfair to scruffy just saying ;-)
I agree with you Moody, scruffy was very polite and explained her reasoning as best she could, she said quite clearly that she hadn't any links yet they were demanded of her.
Other newbies to the thread have been welcomed with open arms (If they are anti Oscar) and have argued the toss (without links) yet are not brought to task, regardless of what some FMs on here say it certainly does look like a gang mentality to a newbie or lurker.
I don't think it was fair to mock her credentials as a legal secretary when we have members on here who profess to be in the legal profession yet have never been asked to show evidence of it.
It's very sad reading the messages to each other and they were quite affectionate to each other. Did you see the last message from Reeva to the Myers saying she was going to stay at OP's as she didn't want to drive the long drive back?
It was at 22.00.pm. OP said they both went to sleep at 10.00.pm. so they must have had no trouble falling asleep immediatly on such a hot night??
Or, he checked her phone after the shooting and found her last usage where he could then say nothing regarding the next six hrs. But then he would know nothing about forensics and that anything that may have gone on during that six hrs could come out as there are no other witness's to say for instance, they had a meal, except, of course, the pathologist.
or, he had her phone for a good part of that time while they were arguing. spying on her calls and messages.
They are set up to share and allow comments, though I'm guessing you may need a gmail account to comment (only takes a few minutes to set up). If you'd rather post your thoughts on here that's fine or alternatively email me (montgomery.fossil@gmail.com) Please feel free to copy and do with them what you wish but I will generally only make changes that are based on firm evidence.
I've haven't used this facility before so it may need some tweaking!
Monty Fossil
thanks Mr Fossil.
how did you find out that Hilton Botha accessed Reeva's phone to find her mum's number, bypassing the passcode?
Howay benji lass you know this topic has never been a friendly one.:o:o
I sometimes say what I'm thinking knowing it may not be what people want to read, but I'm friendly enough, I think. I don't mean to be unfriendly to anyone.
Howay benji lass you know this topic has never been a friendly one.:o:o
I'm a kisser at heart let's just see if we cannot hobble over the finishing line together. Beaten battered but not broken. hot topic , diverse opinions , we should pat ourselves on the back for holding it together.
I sometimes say what I'm thinking knowing it may not be what people want to read, but I'm friendly enough, I think. I don't mean to be unfriendly to anyone.
We are all guilty of speaking a little sharply. I don't think anyone's intention is to be unfriendly .
I'm a kisser at heart let's just see if we cannot hobble over the finishing line together. Beaten battered but not broken. hot topic , diverse opinions , we should pat ourselves on the back for holding it together.
It certainly has been a hot topic! And I have enjoyed almost all the thread.
I agree with you Moody, scruffy was very polite and explained her reasoning as best she could, she said quite clearly that she hadn't any links yet they were demanded of her.
Other newbies to the thread have been welcomed with open arms (If they are anti Oscar) and have argued the toss (without links) yet are not brought to task, regardless of what some FMs on here say it certainly does look like a gang mentality to a newbie or lurker.
I don't think it was fair to mock her credentials as a legal secretary when we have members on here who profess to be in the legal profession yet have never been asked to show evidence of it.
Rant over, soz like..:):)
Objection M'Lady, bias from Smacka...It can be demonstrated, nay proved beyond reasonable doubt that bookcover was prompted for a link when stating the fact she was "not a convict."
I sometimes say what I'm thinking knowing it may not be what people want to read, but I'm friendly enough, I think. I don't mean to be unfriendly to anyone.
Same Same, I get stick all the time, in fact at onetime I thought it was smacka hunting season, thankfully some of the more antagonistic ones have gone on a long trek, there's still the odd one or two I'd like to bash on the arse with a garden rake but even those are mostly quite friendly.;-)
Objection M'Lady, bias from Smacka...It can be demonstrated, nay proved beyond reasonable doubt that bookcover was prompted for a link when stating the fact she was "not a convict."
Bookcover seeks recompense of a biscuit .
Aye and you haven't proved that yet have you, eh eh?:p:p
Same Same, I get stick all the time, in fact at onetime I thought it was smacka hunting season, thankfully some of the more antagonistic ones have gone on a long trek, there's still the odd one or two I'd like to bash on the arse with a garden rake but even those are mostly quite friendly.;-)
I remember the Smacka hunting season! I liked how you stuck to your guns.
The rigid spike kind of rake or the springy tine type? Either is a bit kinky, but if you must...
I'm a kisser at heart let's just see if we cannot hobble over the finishing line together. Beaten battered but not broken. hot topic , diverse opinions , we should pat ourselves on the back for holding it together.
I totally agree with you there. Our Ding Dings will soon turn into the ding dong of Christmas bells at this rate and we will all be slozzed, STILL bing doinging about this on going saga. :D
Comments
There's not much more anyone can say. If you take it upon yourself to criticise the personel of this thread that is up to you. We just try to get to info and facts if at all possible.
Indeed I have and it was on this charge I based my assumptions.
I think it reasonable to say no one, certainly Nel, expected Pistorius to escape the ammunition charge. It was so clear cut or as they say in America a ‘slam dunk’ charge. I certainly could not see any way of him escaping it based on the legislation under which he was charged. I would go as far as to say, any other person, under another judge, would have been found guilty without question.
So the question has to be why was Pistorius found not guilty when he was so obviously guilty?
Clearly because the evidence and the law which pointed to his guilt was so compelling a lot of effort was put into ‘finding a way’ of pronouncing him not guilty.
This effort literally involved producing new case law which could ultimately have serious consequences.
Now, I could give the benefit of the doubt if this situation had been created by Masipa alone, perhaps having a ‘very senior moment’ in her personal desire to find Pistorius not guilty.
However that is not the case, if it were the two assessors would have quickly correct her and explain the situation she was creating. They did not do so!
So I seriously think they were all ‘collectively leaned on’ to get him off the ‘watertight’ firearms charge that carried the greatest penalty by any means possible and with no regards to the consequences.
and that is how hotels are able to let guests store firearms in their safes. they have a special licence.
now they don't need that of course, because they don't have animus to possess whatever is in the safes they provide.
That is the kind of criticism I was expecting.
Sorry I didn't see this to reply last evening.
If you were competent and shooting from pretty much any distance at a target on a range then no, it wouldn't be a good grouping, but you take your time to settle and aim.
On stumps, with high emotion whether anger or fear, in near darkness according to OP or even in light it looks like a fairly good grouping for someone letting rip with a firearm in the heat of the moment. It looked aimed to my OH and me but that said we've never been in a comparable scenario and have never randomly fired at anything.
And totally ignore other facts if possible.:p:p
Well, if I'm making a few posts and trying to make a point, then someone comes along and say's they have personal experience of what I'm saying and therefore, I'm wrong. Then I believe them.
Am I now getting the treatment that scruffy was supposed to have suffered?
Think folks. It's just a forum.
That's a very good point, I hadn't thought that that's how he arrived at the time.
It becomes ever more transparent what really happened, doesn't it.
Wow. For someone who is supposed to be sticking up for scruffy, look what you started yourself now?
Think jps, think. ;-)
another consideration has to be that there is no one target as such, with a person somewhere behind a door, also moving between shots.
I agree with you Moody, scruffy was very polite and explained her reasoning as best she could, she said quite clearly that she hadn't any links yet they were demanded of her.
Other newbies to the thread have been welcomed with open arms (If they are anti Oscar) and have argued the toss (without links) yet are not brought to task, regardless of what some FMs on here say it certainly does look like a gang mentality to a newbie or lurker.
I don't think it was fair to mock her credentials as a legal secretary when we have members on here who profess to be in the legal profession yet have never been asked to show evidence of it.
Rant over, soz like..:):)
Howay benji lass you know this topic has never been a friendly one.:o:o
or, he had her phone for a good part of that time while they were arguing. spying on her calls and messages.
I do. Do you?
thanks Mr Fossil.
how did you find out that Hilton Botha accessed Reeva's phone to find her mum's number, bypassing the passcode?
I sometimes say what I'm thinking knowing it may not be what people want to read, but I'm friendly enough, I think. I don't mean to be unfriendly to anyone.
I'm a kisser at heart
We are all guilty of speaking a little sharply. I don't think anyone's intention is to be unfriendly .
It certainly has been a hot topic! And I have enjoyed almost all the thread.
Objection M'Lady, bias from Smacka...It can be demonstrated, nay proved beyond reasonable doubt that bookcover was prompted for a link when stating the fact she was "not a convict."
Bookcover seeks recompense of a biscuit .
Same Same, I get stick all the time, in fact at onetime I thought it was smacka hunting season, thankfully some of the more antagonistic ones have gone on a long trek, there's still the odd one or two I'd like to bash on the arse with a garden rake but even those are mostly quite friendly.;-)
Me too. Amazed we have managed to keep it on track , mostly, the long gaps are difficult to fill tho and. Boredom has an impact. Nearly there.,:)
Aye and you haven't proved that yet have you, eh eh?:p:p
I remember the Smacka hunting season! I liked how you stuck to your guns.
The rigid spike kind of rake or the springy tine type? Either is a bit kinky, but if you must...
I totally agree with you there. Our Ding Dings will soon turn into the ding dong of Christmas bells at this rate and we will all be slozzed, STILL bing doinging about this on going saga.