Yep, same as Islam. Other parts of the Qu'ran are seemingly contradictory and would say any murder is completely and utterly sinful.
Verses in Qua'ran abrogate each other so there is no contradiction. Muhammad stated Muslims can kill disbelievers so IS are permitted to do so. There is no religious leader to state otherwise as Islam does not have a pontiff to say what is right or wrong
I read your post earlier, and I have to say you bring up a good point.
I was actually shopping in my local Asda store a few weeks ago, and a taxi driver that was picking up a shopper heared a conversation a customer was having about having to face the threat of Islamic terrorists a conversation which had started due to the latest bad news from Iraq/syria etc and he heared the conversation and starting spouting off that islam will take over Britain eventually and he seemed animated when he said it and he said the way we live etc Excessive drinking, girls dressing inapropriately, etc the country needed discipline
That our way of living would change when islam took over etc
And I turned to a shopper and asked them if they had heared that, and they said yes and they felt very uncomfortable with what he was saying.
As was I
Not all are like that mind, but hearing this in my daily routine other than just on TV etc
was an eye opener.
I just dont understand if someone truly doesn`t agree with our way of life then why live here
You may get shot down for your comments on here from time to time, but nobody can truly tell you what you did or didn`t hear if they were not there.
Verses in Qua'ran abrogate each other so there is no comtradiction. Muhammad stated Muslims can kill disbelievers so IS are permitted to do so. There is no religious leader to state otherwise as Islam does not have a pontiff to say what is right or wrong
Yes, there is. How can there not be? Your explanation doesn't make sense.
Jesus........are you purposely being obtuse on this? I stated it and have said so many times before.
Can you genuinely not figure it out what i'm saying/suggesting???
I have no idea what you mean by buying someone a ticket away,,, this was nothing to do with my post, so please do not continue in a conversation with me as you seem to be adding things to my posts that were not there,,,i am staring to think you are trying to wind people up. I do not want to hear about this again!!!!!!! .
First of all to set my stall out. I am totally against ISIS and believe that sanctions and force should be used appropriately to stop its spread. However, I am totally against the "nuke them all" philosophy from some posters, by doing that we make ourselves as bad as them. I am also totally against the blanket anti Muslim stance that sections of the media, particularly the Daily Mail take. I think this attitude does so much harm, stirring mistrust and hatred against the majority of a muslims in the country who practice Islam as a non violent religion. Given how much anti Muslim feeling there is in this country at the moment it comes as no surprise that young Muslims are seeing radicalisation as an option.. Lets stop burning bridges and start building them. Obsessing in the media about issues such as veiling ( which I totally disagree with) is ignoring the bigger picture that we need to stop the radicalisation of young Muslims. We will not do that by sitting in our moral high ground and pointing fingers, we will only do it by trying to engage Muslims in this country and trying to integrate them into our communities rather than trying tar them with same brush and alienating them. Look at the Irish situation, after decades of confrontation we have only achieved relative peace by sucking it in and seeing that there is more to gained by negotiating than there is by just condemning.
It's a good post, but it misses one crucial factor.
The steady rise of Saudi funded fundamentalism/Wahhabism that has been growing since the fall of Iran.
For every initiative/bridge building exercise in this country, there are a hundred "don't follow the west, reject western society, Islam is the only thing you need (and a fundamentalist version at that)" coming in from outside.
The Irish never had people from Spain, for instance, instructing them over and over again that peace was not the goal, takeover was the only option and until that is achieved, total rejection.
They believe they can win.
Why do people find it so hard to understand the mindset of fanatical religious devotees that know they are right and it's only a matter of time, if they are true and faithful, before everybody understands they are right?
And for the youngsters, we live in a country of 65 million people, none of us (or very few) are at all important.
Give them cause, one built on what they have already been programmed to believe, and it gives themselves a feeling of importance.
And that's a nice feeling when the world has got so big, so global, that more and more of us feel too anonymous.
This was what you posted; I then posted in response;Hence the reason i suggested to you if you meet so many of these Muslims who 'hate our culture and the British way of life'......why not offer to buy them a non return ticket to leave?
Got it now?
You didn't suggest anything of the sort, all you did previously was talk of you offering to buy someone* in another thread a ferry ticket.
* Note you had to mention the skin colour of that someone for some reason?
Yes, there is. How can there not be? Your explanation doesn't make sense.
" None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?"
" None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?"
Answering-Islam.org has a serious credibility problem in my mind if you want answers. It's run by evangelical Christian's that are trying to convert Muslims IIRC.
I've had a bit of a read though and that page somewhat contradicts what you're saying regardless, although it's preposterously hard to read because of a bizarre way of using language and structuring sentences.
The bottom line is that doesn't prove anything and describes a whole host of different opinions, which in themselves are contradictory.
It's a good post, but it misses one crucial factor.
The steady rise of Saudi funded fundamentalism/Wahhabism that has been growing since the fall of Iran.
For every initiative/bridge building exercise in this country, there are a hundred "don't follow the west, reject western society, Islam is the only thing you need (and a fundamentalist version at that)" coming in from outside.
The Irish never had people from Spain, for instance, instructing them over and over again that peace was not the goal, takeover was the only option and until that is achieved, total rejection.
They believe they can win.
Why do people find it so hard to understand the mindset of fanatical religious devotees that know they are right and it's only a matter of time, if they are true and faithful, before everybody understands they are right?
And for the youngsters, we live in a country of 65 million people, none of us (or very few) are at all important.
Give them cause, one built on what they have already been programmed to believe, and it gives themselves a feeling of importance.
And that's a nice feeling when the world has got so big, so global, that more and more of us feel too anonymous.
I accept what you say but what is the option here? Give up, stop trying to keep communications open, sit back and just condemn? All that will achieve is to marginalise Muslims in this country and add fuel to the idea that is them and us. A few years before the Good Friday Agrrement no one thought it could ever happen. In the absence of any other feasible approach to the Muslim and non Muslim divide is this not the only way we can proceed with any possible hope of resolution., despite the numerous obstacles in its path?
I accept what you say but what is the option here? Give up, stop trying to keep communications open, sit back and just condemn? All that will achieve is to marginalise Muslims in this country and add fuel to the idea that is them and us. A few years before the Good Friday Agrrement no one thought it could ever happen. In the absence of any other feasible approach to the Muslim and non Muslim divide is this not the only way we can proceed with any possible hope of resolution., despite the numerous obstacles in its path?
Clear leadership that discusses the issue honestly and makes it clear that there will be no further extension of Islamic influence in this country.
I remember that and I think I said similar to him (air fare) but I don't know how you knew he was white British because he didn't say he was.
Was fairly positive he did LL as i thought he mentioned that, but hold my hand up if i was wrong on that. Pity i can't even remember what the damn topic was about as i searched through my post history but couldn't find it. It must have been a few weeks back now though.
Answering-Islam.org has a serious credibility problem in my mind if you want answers. It's run by evangelical Christian's that are trying to convert Muslims IIRC.
I've had a bit of a read though and that page somewhat contradicts what you're saying regardless, although it's preposterously hard to read because of a bizarre way of using language and structuring sentences.
The bottom line is that doesn't prove anything and describes a whole host of different opinions, which in themselves are contradictory.
'Substitute something better or similar or better'. If an extremist does not like peace he can substitute it something better which is violence. So there is no contradiction as one verses can replace another. Part of the problem with Islam is its all self interpretation and do as you want with Qua'ran so neither side is right or wrong.
'Substitute something better or similar or better'. If an extremist does not like peace he can substitute it something better which is violence. So there is no contradiction as one verses can replace another. Part of the problem with Islam is its all self interpretation and do as you want with Qua'ran so neither side is right or wrong.
Yes but that's still all open to interpretation. This isn't a proscribed thing, it still means they are actively deciding 'this is better' rather than following the peaceful tenets of the religion.
I don't really get what your point is. It should be overwhelmingly obvious this is down to extremist interpretation, rather than mainstream, universally accepted Islam.
Modern day Nazis. They see certain people, (i.e., everyone not like them) not a big deal to kill. I find it astounding how many countries find not fighting them ... just fine.
Modern day Nazis. They see certain people, i.e., everyone not like them and thus not a big deal to kill. I find it astounding how many countries find not fighting them ... just fine.
To be honest, if we're sticking with the Nazi analogy (which is very appropriate) it took a bit of time for unaffected countries to support the allies against Nazi Germany.
ISIS cannot be fought easily, or conventionally - they are too 'smoke and mirrors'. Defeating them will take time and skill.
Sad. However this was what was being preached by Abu Hamza on the streets of London 10 years ago, and he was given police protection to do it. Is it any wonder we now have People with British accents running around Syria in Iraq beheading people.
I don't understand why the captives make these statements if they know they are gonna die. If they told me to say those things I'd say F off! so so sad reading this though. It's just something I wondered after reading the transcripts.
I would imagine they are offered some kind of pain or mind altering drugs in return for cooperation.
I feel like the hands of the Govt are tied - troops on the ground/full scale war gives the terrorists what they want: more killing, more bloodshed so they can point to the evil West and paint themselves as martyrs.
Likewise, these atrocious acts will create hatred and division on our own soil - again giving them the fuel they need to stoke the fires of hatred in those young men and women they seem to be so easily able to reach and radicalise.
It's a very scary and gloom filled situation.
Families pleading with these monsters is a waste of time because you have to a conscience and they don't. Clearly our government doesn't have the first idea of what to do. Will airstrikes work probably not.
Families pleading with these monsters is a waste of time because you have to a conscience and they don't. Clearly our government doesn't have the first idea of what to do. Will airstrikes work probably not.
Sadly, the public pleading also plays into their hands - they want publicity for their barbarism and they want their shocking acts broadcast as far and wide as possible.
It terrifies me to say it, but they seem to very much have the upper hand right now:(
Comments
Verses in Qua'ran abrogate each other so there is no contradiction. Muhammad stated Muslims can kill disbelievers so IS are permitted to do so. There is no religious leader to state otherwise as Islam does not have a pontiff to say what is right or wrong
Thanks
Yes, there is. How can there not be? Your explanation doesn't make sense.
I have no idea what you mean by buying someone a ticket away,,, this was nothing to do with my post, so please do not continue in a conversation with me as you seem to be adding things to my posts that were not there,,,i am staring to think you are trying to wind people up. I do not want to hear about this again!!!!!!! .
It's a good post, but it misses one crucial factor.
The steady rise of Saudi funded fundamentalism/Wahhabism that has been growing since the fall of Iran.
For every initiative/bridge building exercise in this country, there are a hundred "don't follow the west, reject western society, Islam is the only thing you need (and a fundamentalist version at that)" coming in from outside.
The Irish never had people from Spain, for instance, instructing them over and over again that peace was not the goal, takeover was the only option and until that is achieved, total rejection.
They believe they can win.
Why do people find it so hard to understand the mindset of fanatical religious devotees that know they are right and it's only a matter of time, if they are true and faithful, before everybody understands they are right?
And for the youngsters, we live in a country of 65 million people, none of us (or very few) are at all important.
Give them cause, one built on what they have already been programmed to believe, and it gives themselves a feeling of importance.
And that's a nice feeling when the world has got so big, so global, that more and more of us feel too anonymous.
You didn't suggest anything of the sort, all you did previously was talk of you offering to buy someone* in another thread a ferry ticket.
* Note you had to mention the skin colour of that someone for some reason?
" None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?"
Peace is superseded by violence and if you don't like some thing you find better, so there is no contradiction as terrorist can just find what they want to justify their actions.
http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Farooq_Ibrahim/abrogation.htm
Answering-Islam.org has a serious credibility problem in my mind if you want answers. It's run by evangelical Christian's that are trying to convert Muslims IIRC.
I've had a bit of a read though and that page somewhat contradicts what you're saying regardless, although it's preposterously hard to read because of a bizarre way of using language and structuring sentences.
The bottom line is that doesn't prove anything and describes a whole host of different opinions, which in themselves are contradictory.
I accept what you say but what is the option here? Give up, stop trying to keep communications open, sit back and just condemn? All that will achieve is to marginalise Muslims in this country and add fuel to the idea that is them and us. A few years before the Good Friday Agrrement no one thought it could ever happen. In the absence of any other feasible approach to the Muslim and non Muslim divide is this not the only way we can proceed with any possible hope of resolution., despite the numerous obstacles in its path?
That's all they are. They are murdering bastards. They claim it a religious thing. that's bullshit. They are murdering other muslims as well.
RIP Alan:(:(
Clear leadership that discusses the issue honestly and makes it clear that there will be no further extension of Islamic influence in this country.
Take it or leave it, the door is open.
'Substitute something better or similar or better'. If an extremist does not like peace he can substitute it something better which is violence. So there is no contradiction as one verses can replace another. Part of the problem with Islam is its all self interpretation and do as you want with Qua'ran so neither side is right or wrong.
Silly man. Shouldn't have went there in the first place doesn't excuse his brutal murder though.
Yes but that's still all open to interpretation. This isn't a proscribed thing, it still means they are actively deciding 'this is better' rather than following the peaceful tenets of the religion.
I don't really get what your point is. It should be overwhelmingly obvious this is down to extremist interpretation, rather than mainstream, universally accepted Islam.
To be honest, if we're sticking with the Nazi analogy (which is very appropriate) it took a bit of time for unaffected countries to support the allies against Nazi Germany.
ISIS cannot be fought easily, or conventionally - they are too 'smoke and mirrors'. Defeating them will take time and skill.
I would imagine they are offered some kind of pain or mind altering drugs in return for cooperation.
Likewise, these atrocious acts will create hatred and division on our own soil - again giving them the fuel they need to stoke the fires of hatred in those young men and women they seem to be so easily able to reach and radicalise.
It's a very scary and gloom filled situation.
Sadly, the public pleading also plays into their hands - they want publicity for their barbarism and they want their shocking acts broadcast as far and wide as possible.
It terrifies me to say it, but they seem to very much have the upper hand right now:(