And there in lies the point, you're NOT going to get the full story from either side, the websites involved in the scandal will ignore all that stuff, and force forward the death threats and woman hating agenda, where as the gamergate side will ignore that and constantly push forward the point about biased reviews, shady deals between websites, etc.
BOTH sides are leaving out various things to force their point, and now that it has gone viral, which side do you think will get represented in the news? Mass Woman Hating and Death Threats, or, Corrupt Journalism in Gaming? I'll give you a hint at what would be the biggest news shocker and attention worthy.
Funny thing is, Death Threats also happen from the feminist side, one woman even going as far to say a 10 year old boy should be killed because of his views! People like JonTron, Boogie, who at first voiced their opinion on the gamergate side were getting death threats from apparent Feminists, yet no one bothers to report that, death threats are EVERYWHERE in this shit heap, yet it ONLY matters if a woman gets them?
It was interesting to read this stuff and the knowyourmeme article. The only info I had seen about this before was one on Cracked.com a few weeks ago that stated that the whole thing was crazed internet trolls deciding to take their frustrations out on this women via the medium of death threats. It didn't mention once that there was a wider campaign about journalist integrity and transparency in the gaming world.
From what i've seen my perspective is:
1. It barely needs to be said that attacking a women for her sex life and perpetuating a hate campaign over it is completely disgusting and should be critised at every opportunity.
2. Point 1 doesn't invalidate general complaints made about corruption and lack of transparency in the gaming industry. An opinion doesn't become less valid just because internet idiots decide to hijack it for their own purpose.
3. The complaints in point 3 exist in pretty much every industry and area of journalism. If you can point out sector which isn't corrupted by personal relationships, bribery (inc. sexual) and vested interests i'd be extremely impressed.
2. Point 1 doesn't invalidate general complaints made about corruption and lack of transparency in the gaming industry. An opinion doesn't become less valid just because internet idiots decide to hijack it for their own purpose.
This is true, however it's also where this whole thing becomes incredibly messy. It wasn't hijacked by internet idiots- it was BEGUN by internet idiots. Technically it's the more reasonable GGers who have done the hijacking. The problem lies in separating their valid concerns from the idiots, which is damn near impossible considering the origin of the whole thing.
... which of course were just the latest threats of death, rape, and violence against women during this whole "GamerGate" thing.
Remember Jack Thompson the anti violent video game lawyer, the one we all made fun off, yeah he got death threats in the days before all this social media crap where if someone gets a little annoyed they say something they regret online, the threats that Jack got more much more serious and nobody gave a shit
Hmm, Anita, Brianna and Jack, nope can't understand what the difference could be
I'd argue that the people making these threats under the gamergate tag are the extreme minority, unless you are telling me the majority of the over 1 million tweets about are made up of mostly trolls making threats
Nope just someone who likes the sound of facts, especially the ones that can be backed up with evidence
If someone wants to claim gamersgate was started just to abuse women online then they need to prove it, if someone wants to say the majority of people using the tag are misogynist woman hating etc etc then prove it
Glad I'm not on ****ter. It's full of absolute moon units!
It's a pointless debate anyway. Both sides are entrenched and as obnoxious as each other. It's just people who are fond of the sound of their own voice arguing for the sake of it and point scoring. Any original point has been lost.
Glad I'm not on ****ter. It's full of absolute moon units!
It's a pointless debate anyway. Both sides are entrenched and as obnoxious as each other. It's just people who are fond of the sound of their own voice arguing for the sake of it and point scoring. Any original point has been lost.
Actually actor Adam Baldwin coined the phrase Gamergate and then people who want clarity in the industry started using it (and of course people have co-opted it though I doubt there has been a single movement in history that hasn't been somewhat co-opted by a small amount of people)
Since there was abuse of women (and MAN for ****s sake why can people not realise this happens to men as well) before gamergate, during gamergate and there will be after gamergate we need to stop associating the two
After the first paragraph I knew not to read on but I did what a terrible horrid article, his girlfriend cheats on him a lot and he stands by her time after time, but because once the relationship is over rewrites about it to help him get over it HE is the bad guy
Aand then people who want clarity in the industry started using it (and of course people have co-opted it though I doubt there has been a single movement in history that hasn't been somewhat co-opted by a small amount of people)
Since there was abuse of women (and MAN for ****s sake why can people not realise this happens to men as well) before gamergate, during gamergate and there will be after gamergate we need to stop associating the two
After the first paragraph I knew not to read on but I did what a terrible horrid article, his girlfriend cheats on him a lot and he stands by her time after time, but because once the relationship is over rewrites about it to help him get over it HE is the bad guy
You say "rewrites about it to help him get over it", I say "publishes personal information in order to hurt his ex". Whoever's in the right or wrong in any relationship, it's piss-poor form to air that laundry in public unless there's actual abuse. Interesting, though- I'm actually surprised that you say "rewrites about it to help him get over it", because I thought your angle was that he wrote about it in order to get transparency in gaming media. Are you now finally agreeing that the whole thing was started for personal reasons?
You say "rewrites about it to help him get over it", I say "publishes personal information in order to hurt his ex". Whoever's in the right or wrong in any relationship, it's piss-poor form to air that laundry in public unless there's actual abuse. Interesting, though- I'm actually surprised that you say "rewrites about it to help him get over it", because I thought your angle was that he wrote about it in order to get transparency in gaming media. Are you now finally agreeing that the whole thing was started for personal reasons?
I think you misunderstand he wrote the post for personal reasons and the content led to call from others for clarity and the end of corruption in games media, Zoe quinn was the starting point of this but it is no longer the main focus
Let me ask you a few questions to see whether its even worth talking more
Is getting corruption out of gaming a good thing?
should a few insane idiots who make threats ruin progress?
While I think that Depression Quest is utter rubbish I think it would be better to look at sites like IGN and Gamespot who seem to favour poor to average games by wealthy developers. That is where the main corruption is and is being conveniently ignored while the rest of the squabble goes on with both sides getting more inflamed.
While I think that Depression Quest is utter rubbish I think it would be better to look at sites like IGN and Gamespot who seem to favour poor to average games by wealthy developers. That is where the main corruption is and is being conveniently ignored while the rest of the squabble goes on with both sides getting more inflamed.
Exactly. Female indie devs and women who criticise gaming aren't the problem. But they seem to be the targets. Why do we all know Zoe Quinn's name but we never really see the dude who was allegedly writing the review (he wasn't writing the review) being lambasted anywhere? In what way is this helping anyone? What is it achieving?
I think you misunderstand he wrote the post for personal reasons
Yeah. Really, really shitty personal reasons. Interesting how it's OK for him to write negatively about someone because they're NOT sleeping with him anymore, but for someone to (allegedly and not actually) write positively about someone because they ARE sleeping with them is a no-no. The man's a creep. And while he's still associated with any campaign, nothing good can come of it. If GG really cared about proving it wasn't a misogynist hate campaign (which I'll admit, for a lot of people it isn't, and I kinda feel sorry for them) then the whole lot of you would wash your hands of him. And Baldwin, while you're at it. He's not exactly someone you want as the face of any movement that's claiming not to be for assholes.
Nope just someone who likes the sound of facts, especially the ones that can be backed up with evidence
If someone wants to claim gamersgate was started just to abuse women online then they need to prove it, if someone wants to say the majority of people using the tag are misogynist woman hating etc etc then prove it
Stellar response, Thomas. Not only rampant axe-grinding, as I suspected, but joyous hobby-horse riding too.
Yup. As much as I love the characters he's played over the years, I tend to find his politics appalling.
Yeah, me too. It's disappointing, really. I know it shouldn't be, because he doesn't owe me anything, but "dude from Firefly turns out to be massive jerk" is still a narrative that makes me sad.
I do think that those people that are really concerned about ethics would be better off reuniting under a different hashtag.
Let's face it, the #GG hashtag is now toxic and will be forever linked with threats and misogyny - as a result, nobody will take any genuine concerns seriously.
I do think that those people that are really concerned about ethics would be better off reuniting under a different hashtag.
Let's face it, the #GG hashtag is now toxic and will be forever linked with threats and misogyny - as a result, nobody will take any genuine concerns seriously.
There has been death threats, harrasment and attempts to silence people on both sides. Just have a look what has happened to boogie2988, but hardly a peep about this from the media. But being some fat white guy with a neckbeard, he probably deserves it in these peopes minds, the peope who are supposed to be above steriotyping.
The media wanna just report on the very small minority of bad elements in the gamergare community and tar everyone in that community with the same brush because they have been called out to try scare people away from questioning them. It is not just the games media too, it is the mainstream media like the guardian who i had a lot respect for before this. I gotta say though, very professional on their part.
Gaming journalism has been like that since it's earliest days though, I remember knowing as a child in the late 80's that it was clear the mags were reviewing products they were clearly also being paid to advertise.
You could argue maybe it's too obvious now, but I'm still amazed people are surprised by this.
Well, I worked on games magazines for many years and can't recall any pressure to give games better scores because they were made by major advertisers. Surely it would ultimately be self-defeating since the readers would soon notice such a bias and the publication would soon lose its credibility? I can only speak from personal circumstance, but I always gave my honest opinion about the games I reviewed.
It was interesting to read this stuff and the knowyourmeme article. The only info I had seen about this before was one on Cracked.com a few weeks ago that stated that the whole thing was crazed internet trolls deciding to take their frustrations out on this women via the medium of death threats. It didn't mention once that there was a wider campaign about journalist integrity and transparency in the gaming world.
From what i've seen my perspective is:
1. It barely needs to be said that attacking a women for her sex life and perpetuating a hate campaign over it is completely disgusting and should be critised at every opportunity.
2. Point 1 doesn't invalidate general complaints made about corruption and lack of transparency in the gaming industry. An opinion doesn't become less valid just because internet idiots decide to hijack it for their own purpose.
3. The complaints in point 3 exist in pretty much every industry and area of journalism. If you can point out sector which isn't corrupted by personal relationships, bribery (inc. sexual) and vested interests i'd be extremely impressed.
Slighly off topic but as a man I wonder how many of the "men" attacking women actually have their own sex life. I honestly feel men sitting in their bedroom from their teens to mid twenties/thirties is the cause of most of this.
Just want to add when I say cause I mean the negative shit, death threats etc.
Comments
BOTH sides are leaving out various things to force their point, and now that it has gone viral, which side do you think will get represented in the news? Mass Woman Hating and Death Threats, or, Corrupt Journalism in Gaming? I'll give you a hint at what would be the biggest news shocker and attention worthy.
Funny thing is, Death Threats also happen from the feminist side, one woman even going as far to say a 10 year old boy should be killed because of his views! People like JonTron, Boogie, who at first voiced their opinion on the gamergate side were getting death threats from apparent Feminists, yet no one bothers to report that, death threats are EVERYWHERE in this shit heap, yet it ONLY matters if a woman gets them?
From what i've seen my perspective is:
1. It barely needs to be said that attacking a women for her sex life and perpetuating a hate campaign over it is completely disgusting and should be critised at every opportunity.
2. Point 1 doesn't invalidate general complaints made about corruption and lack of transparency in the gaming industry. An opinion doesn't become less valid just because internet idiots decide to hijack it for their own purpose.
3. The complaints in point 3 exist in pretty much every industry and area of journalism. If you can point out sector which isn't corrupted by personal relationships, bribery (inc. sexual) and vested interests i'd be extremely impressed.
Regards
Mark
This is true, however it's also where this whole thing becomes incredibly messy. It wasn't hijacked by internet idiots- it was BEGUN by internet idiots. Technically it's the more reasonable GGers who have done the hijacking. The problem lies in separating their valid concerns from the idiots, which is damn near impossible considering the origin of the whole thing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/technology/gamergate-women-video-game-threats-anita-sarkeesian.html?_r=1
http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/16/6987175/gamergate-new-york-times-esa
The latest threats against Sarkeesian follow specific threats aimed at developer Brianna Wu.
http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/11/6963279/brianna-wu-death-threats-police-harassment
http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/14/6974547/brianna-wu-im-not-going-to-get-bullied-out-of-this-industry
... which of course were just the latest threats of death, rape, and violence against women during this whole "GamerGate" thing.
Remember Jack Thompson the anti violent video game lawyer, the one we all made fun off, yeah he got death threats in the days before all this social media crap where if someone gets a little annoyed they say something they regret online, the threats that Jack got more much more serious and nobody gave a shit
Hmm, Anita, Brianna and Jack, nope can't understand what the difference could be
I'd argue that the people making these threats under the gamergate tag are the extreme minority, unless you are telling me the majority of the over 1 million tweets about are made up of mostly trolls making threats
Regards
Mark
Nope just someone who likes the sound of facts, especially the ones that can be backed up with evidence
If someone wants to claim gamersgate was started just to abuse women online then they need to prove it, if someone wants to say the majority of people using the tag are misogynist woman hating etc etc then prove it
It's a pointless debate anyway. Both sides are entrenched and as obnoxious as each other. It's just people who are fond of the sound of their own voice arguing for the sake of it and point scoring. Any original point has been lost.
Nail on the head
Actually actor Adam Baldwin coined the phrase Gamergate and then people who want clarity in the industry started using it (and of course people have co-opted it though I doubt there has been a single movement in history that hasn't been somewhat co-opted by a small amount of people)
Since there was abuse of women (and MAN for ****s sake why can people not realise this happens to men as well) before gamergate, during gamergate and there will be after gamergate we need to stop associating the two
After the first paragraph I knew not to read on but I did what a terrible horrid article, his girlfriend cheats on him a lot and he stands by her time after time, but because once the relationship is over rewrites about it to help him get over it HE is the bad guy
Yes, Baldwin coined the phrase to describe what was already happening. And Baldwin's been a right-wing nutjob for a good few years now.
Do you not see how this started?
You say "rewrites about it to help him get over it", I say "publishes personal information in order to hurt his ex". Whoever's in the right or wrong in any relationship, it's piss-poor form to air that laundry in public unless there's actual abuse. Interesting, though- I'm actually surprised that you say "rewrites about it to help him get over it", because I thought your angle was that he wrote about it in order to get transparency in gaming media. Are you now finally agreeing that the whole thing was started for personal reasons?
I think you misunderstand he wrote the post for personal reasons and the content led to call from others for clarity and the end of corruption in games media, Zoe quinn was the starting point of this but it is no longer the main focus
Let me ask you a few questions to see whether its even worth talking more
Is getting corruption out of gaming a good thing?
should a few insane idiots who make threats ruin progress?
Exactly. Female indie devs and women who criticise gaming aren't the problem. But they seem to be the targets. Why do we all know Zoe Quinn's name but we never really see the dude who was allegedly writing the review (he wasn't writing the review) being lambasted anywhere? In what way is this helping anyone? What is it achieving?
Yeah. Really, really shitty personal reasons. Interesting how it's OK for him to write negatively about someone because they're NOT sleeping with him anymore, but for someone to (allegedly and not actually) write positively about someone because they ARE sleeping with them is a no-no. The man's a creep. And while he's still associated with any campaign, nothing good can come of it. If GG really cared about proving it wasn't a misogynist hate campaign (which I'll admit, for a lot of people it isn't, and I kinda feel sorry for them) then the whole lot of you would wash your hands of him. And Baldwin, while you're at it. He's not exactly someone you want as the face of any movement that's claiming not to be for assholes.
Yes. And I really don't think GG is helping. It's just creating a toxic environment which makes it impossible to even have the discussion.
Whoa, there, Neddy.
Regards
Mark
Yup. As much as I love the characters he's played over the years, I tend to find his politics appalling.
Yeah, me too. It's disappointing, really. I know it shouldn't be, because he doesn't owe me anything, but "dude from Firefly turns out to be massive jerk" is still a narrative that makes me sad.
Let's face it, the #GG hashtag is now toxic and will be forever linked with threats and misogyny - as a result, nobody will take any genuine concerns seriously.
There has been death threats, harrasment and attempts to silence people on both sides. Just have a look what has happened to boogie2988, but hardly a peep about this from the media. But being some fat white guy with a neckbeard, he probably deserves it in these peopes minds, the peope who are supposed to be above steriotyping.
The media wanna just report on the very small minority of bad elements in the gamergare community and tar everyone in that community with the same brush because they have been called out to try scare people away from questioning them. It is not just the games media too, it is the mainstream media like the guardian who i had a lot respect for before this. I gotta say though, very professional on their part.
Well, I worked on games magazines for many years and can't recall any pressure to give games better scores because they were made by major advertisers. Surely it would ultimately be self-defeating since the readers would soon notice such a bias and the publication would soon lose its credibility? I can only speak from personal circumstance, but I always gave my honest opinion about the games I reviewed.
Slighly off topic but as a man I wonder how many of the "men" attacking women actually have their own sex life. I honestly feel men sitting in their bedroom from their teens to mid twenties/thirties is the cause of most of this.
Just want to add when I say cause I mean the negative shit, death threats etc.