Is the gender pay gap a myth?

[Deleted User] · 18/10/14 - 22:17

Is the gender pay gap a feminist myth? If there is a gap, to what extent is it a reliable gauge of 'equality'.

(in the UK)

Steve_Cardanas · 18/10/14 - 22:19

Doltoi wrote: »

Is the gender pay gap a feminist myth? If there is a gap, to what extent is it a reliable gauge of 'equality'.

(in the UK)

If your on NMW there is no pay gap.

Chris Frost · 18/10/14 - 23:15

As Steve_Cardanas say, some jobs then there's no gap. But others it is significant.

toogoodfortv · 18/10/14 - 23:18

At the company I work for - nope - far from it, and I have proof!

U96 · 18/10/14 - 23:24

Steve_Cardanas wrote: »

If your on NMW there is no pay gap.

Yes,there's a lot of it about these days.Wages really are bumping along the bottom just now.
I find there's more of a gap between certain professions rather than anything to do with gender.Also,the higher paid jobs seem to have an easier life when it comes to workload, compared to the much lower paid overworked 'slaves':(.

MAW · 18/10/14 - 23:33

U96 wrote: »

Yes,there's a lot of it about these days.Wages really are bumping along the bottom just now.
I find there's more of a gap between certain professions rather than anything to do with gender.Also,the higher paid jobs seem to have an easier life when it comes to workload, compared to the much lower paid overworked 'slaves':(.

It's sweet that you think so. Clearly you have no idea at all. Have a guess at how many hours a week a typical CEO does. They earn a lot, for sure. But you are limited by law to 48 hours a week. They are not, and many do more than twice that.

[Deleted User] · 18/10/14 - 23:34

Doltoi doesn't even know what the word feminist means.

U96 · 18/10/14 - 23:39

MAW wrote: »

It's sweet that you think so. Clearly you have no idea at all. Have a guess at how many hours a week a typical CEO does. They earn a lot, for sure. But you are limited by law to 48 hours a week. They are not, and many do more than twice that.

I'm only going on past and present experience.Clearly you are far better informed than myself.

MAW · 18/10/14 - 23:42

U96 wrote: »

I'm only going on past and present experience.Clearly you are far better informed than myself.

Probably, yes. My wife had that job title til she worked herself half to death. And yes, there's a gender pay gap. I think there's still a perception, maybe unconscious, that men need careers, but women have husbands to fall back on.

Bex_123 · 18/10/14 - 23:47

MAW wrote: »

And yes, there's a gender pay gap. I think there's still a perception, maybe unconscious, that men need careers, but women have husbands to fall back on.

I have never experienced it myself but do have friends who have found this to be the case. I think it is worse in some industries than others but certainly I know women who feel they have to fight to be taken as seriously as the men in their company.

Grecomania · 18/10/14 - 23:47

No next........

exlordlucan · 18/10/14 - 23:52

MAW wrote: »

It's sweet that you think so. Clearly you have no idea at all. Have a guess at how many hours a week a typical CEO does. They earn a lot, for sure. But you are limited by law to 48 hours a week. They are not, and many do more than twice that.

The CEO of the company I was at worked a lot of hours to get his money, mind he had a chauffeur driven car, personal assistant, guaranteed bonuses, non contributory pension etc so who wouldn't for all that.

TBH I couldn't see what he did most of the time anyway so not a bad screw for business lunches, golf etc to 'clinch' the deal.

DMN1968 · 18/10/14 - 23:59

There appears to be at our place, however many of the women have taken career breaks to raise families which has put them behind, so cannot expect to be on the same salary as a man who has been there the same length of time as the man has probably 3-5 more years experience.

Also the job often requires at times intense hours, often abroad, and many of the women are unable or reluctant to do this due to their family.

The women who have not had families, or have put their careers first are on similar salaries.

MAW · 18/10/14 - 23:59

I expect he had a good helping of ruined weekends, 200 emails to get through of an evening, and being called back from his holidays, as well as the odd round of golf with an arsehole he wouldn't cross the road to piss on if they were on fire. Being at the bottom of the tree feels like everyone shits on you all the time. I assure you, this doesn't change as you climb the greasy pole. You just have fewer friends.

dylan99 · 19/10/14 - 00:10

So the top and bottom of the tree works hard. I think it's the middle management, who have lots of meetings about having meetings, who get an easy life, and a good wage. In my experience.

U96 · 19/10/14 - 00:37

exlordlucan wrote: »

The CEO of the company I was at worked a lot of hours to get his money, mind he had a chauffeur driven car, personal assistant, guaranteed bonuses, non contributory pension etc so who wouldn't for all that.

TBH I couldn't see what he did most of the time anyway so not a bad screw for business lunches, golf etc to 'clinch' the deal.

Yes,it must be nice to be able to delegate work to the lower echelons.I bet that's real stressful.

Chris Frost · 19/10/14 - 00:46

dylan99 wrote: »

So the top and bottom of the tree works hard. I think it's the middle management, who have lots of meetings about having meetings, who get an easy life, and a good wage. In my experience.

I don't believe there are many easy jobs at any level.

At the top of the tree there's a lot of responsibility and, depending on the company, accountability to the board and the shareholders. Still, it's nicer to cry in a Mercedes than on a bike.

Middle management and senior staff have similarly long hours/late nights/ruined weekend and the dog-eat-dog competition to deal with, plus pressure to achieve targets. Don't get me wrong, the pay is attractive, but it comes with a lot of strings.

At the ground floor the work is often tedious and repetitive. The pay isn't great. But at least at clocking off time they can leave work issues behind.

At management/senior level the pay gap grows the most. Partly this is to do with career breaks, but often it's just the "one of us" mentality where manager's managers favour copies of themselves.

tghe-retford · 19/10/14 - 00:49

I wonder if a fair amount of the percentage in the pay gaps claimed could be explained by different career choices of men and women, sexual dimorphism and life choices such as pregnancy, career breaks for maternity leave and so forth. I also wonder how much of the percentage is down to actual discrimination because if women could be paid less than men, employers would be lining up to replace all male workers with female workers and pocket the savings.

pugamo · 19/10/14 - 00:50

MAW wrote: »

It's sweet that you think so. Clearly you have no idea at all. Have a guess at how many hours a week a typical CEO does. They earn a lot, for sure. But you are limited by law to 48 hours a week. They are not, and many do more than twice that.

But, don't you think stacking shelves or typing letters and making phone calls is equally as stressful as running a company with hundreds of employees, securing contracts etc?! :eek:

DadDancer · 19/10/14 - 00:51

Yep feminist myth. My wife is minted.

pugamo · 19/10/14 - 00:53

dylan99 wrote: »

So the top and bottom of the tree works hard. I think it's the middle management, who have lots of meetings about having meetings, who get an easy life, and a good wage. In my experience.

Middle managers deal with shit from the top and shit from the bottom. At least at the top and bottom of the tree most of the shit is filtered out.

Shappy · 19/10/14 - 00:55

MAW wrote: »

It's sweet that you think so. Clearly you have no idea at all. Have a guess at how many hours a week a typical CEO does. They earn a lot, for sure. But you are limited by law to 48 hours a week. They are not, and many do more than twice that.

So CEOs work more than 14 hours a day, 7 days a week? I find that hard to believe.

juliancarswell · 19/10/14 - 01:04

Does any one have personal experience of a man getting paid more than a woman, in your work place for the same work.
We are talking the same qualifications, same experience/time with the company, working in the same location, same hours and shifts and no piece work or commission.
Remember now....your own experience only.
Anybody? "

2-Pot Screamer · 19/10/14 - 01:12

juliancarswell wrote: »

Does any one have personal experience of a man getting paid more than a woman, in your work place for the same work.
We are talking the same qualifications, same experience/time with the company, working in the same location, same hours and shifts and no piece work or commission.
Remember now....your own experience only.
Anybody? "

Ah, no...

"But it's not that 'simple'...

Danny_Girl · 19/10/14 - 01:22

Yes definitely. While woman still have ovaries and are the only means of having children that will remain the case. In my company here are only 2 women on a board of 12 directors. In my own case I was promoted every 2 years until I got pregnant, at which point that stopped. My boss immediately cancelled all the training courses that had been booked for me. I had been in a very technical IT role centred on databases and online systems but on returning from maternity leave part time i was put on the most noddy system that was a package with no requirement for database or online experience. My motivation was questioned at subsequent appraisals although this had always been a real strength in appraisals prior to my pregnancy. My experience would be that I had not changed but my employers perception of me had changed because I was a mother of young children. This is all 15 years ago but talking to other women I believe my experience is still the reality for a lot of other women. I earned more than my husband before having children but earned substantially less ( and I mean many thousands less ) 10 years later.

I could have become bitter as i continued to work as hard during my child rearing years and put in so many extra hours in evenings and weekends to do a good job but I concentrate on the fact that my part time hours meant i was able to be a good mum and spend quality time with my kids.

It's interesting that when I hit 40 and the possibility of me having more kids diminished I started to be given more opportunities. I am now 50 and work full time in a demanding role but despite this the damage has been done. I know my salary has never caught up with my male colleagues although my role is at least comparable and in some cases of a higher profile. My husband still earns more money than me although his job has significantly less responsibility.

Would I do anything differently if I had my time again? No - because to me having the opportunity to be a hands on mum has been extremely important. Do I think this is fair? 100% no as I feel my contribution as a part time worker was under valued and I do not believe I should be paid less than equivalent male employees now just because I am a women who has had children and worked part time in the past.

cmazza · 19/10/14 - 01:26

I think (and this is my personal opinion), women are less likely to negotiate during the hiring process for a higher wage and less likely to ask for a pay rise. These contribute to the discrepancies in pay.

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