The telegraph have already started laying in to sturgeon over this
Well, she has to learn that as Leader she is going to get a lot more attention than she did before. Salmond was a master at winding people up but he was a canny political operator and had a very thick skin. We'll have to see how Sturgeon copes when she has nobody to hide behind.
The idea that individual regions are allowed to veto significant political changes in a country is hardly new or radical: it's built into the US constitution and many others. Given that EU membership is the status quo you could argue that any attempt to leave would be a significant change that all 4 nations should have a say over.
The US however is a group of states which thanks to a war they fought from 1861 to 1865 - giving those states a high degree of autonomy - but even there are issues which are decided at the Federal Government level.
The degree of autonomy given to the separate countries is considerably less. It would be absurd if England voted 80% to leave, Wales 80% to leave, Ireland 80% to leave and Scotland says 80% to stay that we stay in.
It is a simple thing - if 50.1% of UK voters say out - then we go out, if 50.1% say stay in then we stay in.
Put it another way if we went with the suggestion Ms Sturgeon makes then 1 Scottish vote would be worth 10 English voters - an intenable situation if someone just thought about it for a nano second.
Why do so many posters immediate move into hysterical attack mode when something like this is raised?
The idea that individual regions are allowed to veto significant political changes in a country is hardly new or radical: it's built into the US constitution and many others. Given that EU membership is the status quo you could argue that any attempt to leave would be a significant change that all 4 nations should have a say over.
I can't remember you saying that Shetland or Orkney should have the power of veto over Scottish independence from the UK.
Why do so many posters immediate move into hysterical attack mode when something like this is raised?
The idea that individual regions are allowed to veto significant political changes in a country is hardly new or radical: it's built into the US constitution and many others. Given that EU membership is the status quo you could argue that any attempt to leave would be a significant change that all 4 nations should have a say over.
But that's just an argument; not one I personally agree with given that we've never used the system in the past and that England is so vastly bigger than the other 3.
Why can't we just debate these things using sensible words? Why the need to use insulting terms and instantly dismissing anyone that brings up the issue?
But the UK is not a federal state and there is no uncertainty over State vs Federal powers.
The UK delegates power to the regions - it has not delegated this particular to Scotland (or Wales or Northern Ireland) . As we just had a referendum on the whole thing you would think Nicola Sturgeon would know this and not try and pretend the UK is an analogue of the USA because it begins with the same word!
Why do so many posters immediate move into hysterical attack mode when something like this is raised?
The idea that individual regions are allowed to veto significant political changes in a country is hardly new or radical: it's built into the US constitution and many others. Given that EU membership is the status quo you could argue that any attempt to leave would be a significant change that all 4 nations should have a say over.
But that's just an argument; not one I personally agree with given that we've never used the system in the past and that England is so vastly bigger than the other 3.
Why can't we just debate these things using sensible words? Why the need to use insulting terms and instantly dismissing anyone that brings up the issue?
If Scotland had voted yes to independence do you think England and Wales should have been allowed to veto this - as it would change the status quo?:D
Sturgeon was not suggesting - she was insisting.
The UK is the EU member and the UK collectively decides if it wants to leave.
How about the a requirement that a majority of voters in all four UK countries must vote in favour of the UK leaving the EU for the referendum to be valid ?
This would give voters in each of the four UK countries a veto.
That's just utter nonsense. The UK is the member not Scotland, England etc.
If you want to draw meaningless conditions why not say you have to have a majority in every county? Its nonsense. A simple majority is all that is needed
That's just utter nonsense. The UK is the member not Scotland, England etc.
If you want to draw meaningless conditions why not say you have to have a majority in every county? Its nonsense. A simple majority is all that is needed
Scotland, for better or worse, has chosen to remain part of the UK. Scotland must now accept that and Nicola Sturgeons interjection is void.
I think what she has said is going to come back later and bite her in the bum big time.
Bangla. Your new leader has made a total prat of herself within days of taking charge - she is part of the establishment after all. Salmond has taught her well.
Well that is your opinion of course but IMO I think she has done OK with this so far
Scotland, for better or worse, has chosen to remain part of the UK. Scotland must now accept that and Nicola Sturgeons interjection is void.
Scotland voted to stay in the UK with the offer of quasi federalism and home rule if we did. It is in keeping with this and the idea that the UK is a family of equal nations that in any normal situation what Sturgeon is saying wouldn't provoke the hysterical and predictable shrieks of outrage from English posters who cannot get their heads around the fact that it ought not to be their God given right to dictate to the other nations in the Union what happens. There is no union, there is no respect and there is nor relationship of equals. Expect Sturgeon to grab every opportunity she has to expose the colonial attitude of England to the countries under it's control.
Many of us who voted had already posted our votes before the nonsense about the "vow" came out. And no-one was told that they would get Devo-max or anything like it.
By the way - if a newspaper headline is now "blatant fraud" we'd better have a lockdown of the media during elections. But of course that isn't a very democratic thing to do either is it?
As for the surly lodger - that might apply to the SNP heirarchy but not to most Scots I know.
No.....you get a grip. Very telling that you're calling the vow nonsense.
Maybe the surly lodger description does not apply to most Scots you know but it's certainly the perception that much of the English media propagates. Haven't you noticed how the Scots and Welsh are portrayed?
Scotland voted to stay in the UK with the offer of quasi federalism and home rule if we did. It is in keeping with this and the idea that the UK is a family of equal nations that in any normal situation what Sturgeon is saying wouldn't provoke the hysterical and predictable shrieks of outrage from English posters who cannot get their heads around the fact that it ought not to be their God given right to dictate to the other nations in the Union what happens. There is no union, there is no respect and there is nor relationship of equals. Expect Sturgeon to grab every opportunity she has to expose the colonial attitude of England to the countries under it's control.
Most amusing that this idea of being equals means the normal democratic process is ignored, i.e. the ballot box, and there was no interest in equals when it came to the Scottish independence referendum. The SNP are the cake and halfpenny party.
Most amusing that this idea of being equals means the normal democratic process is ignored, i.e. the ballot box, and there was no interest in equals when it came to the Scottish independence referendum. The SNP are the cake and halfpenny party.
In federal states the opinions of all the different areas of that state's opinion would be taken into account. The UK is admittedly not federal but Scotland was told that our relationship with the UK was to become that which you would expect to see in a federal state. These are the words of Gordon Brown not Nicola Sturgeon. Scotland could end up dragged away from our friends and neighbours in the European community for no good reason. You can't expect us to do that quietly. It'll be one of the best chances we have to secure the break up of Britain in the next couple of years.
In federal states the opinions of all the different areas of that state's opinion would be taken into account. The UK is admittedly not federal but Scotland was told that our relationship with the UK was to become that which you would expect to see in a federal state. These are the words of Gordon Brown not Nicola Sturgeon. Scotland could end up dragged away from our friends and neighbours in the European community for no good reason. You can't expect us to do that quietly. It'll be one of the best chances we have to secure the break up of Britain in the next couple of years.
What Gordon Brown, who is a Scottish bankbench MP, said is irrelevant. If the UK leaves the EU will be for the very good reason that majority of the electorate votes to. If Scotland subsequently wishes to hold an independence referendum and leave the UK and apply to join the EU it is free to do so
What Gordon Brown, who is a Scottish bankbench MP, said is irrelevant. If the UK leaves the EU will be for the very good reason that majority of the electorate votes to. If Scotland subsequently wishes to hold an independence referendum and leave the UK and apply to join the EU it is free to do so
Why does it always have to be about England? Our esteemed PM called us a "family of nations" so the whole "family" should be united.
As in many a family gathering, Scotland is the troublesome, drunk, black-sheep Uncle in the corner, occasionally rousing from it's whisky-soaked slumber, to utter a few choice expletives, then falls back into a coma, at which point, the rest of the family roll their eyes, smile knowingly at each other and then continue business as usual.
Comments
Well, she has to learn that as Leader she is going to get a lot more attention than she did before. Salmond was a master at winding people up but he was a canny political operator and had a very thick skin. We'll have to see how Sturgeon copes when she has nobody to hide behind.
I think you want to bite Nicola's bum big time. Admit it.
The US however is a group of states which thanks to a war they fought from 1861 to 1865 - giving those states a high degree of autonomy - but even there are issues which are decided at the Federal Government level.
The degree of autonomy given to the separate countries is considerably less. It would be absurd if England voted 80% to leave, Wales 80% to leave, Ireland 80% to leave and Scotland says 80% to stay that we stay in.
It is a simple thing - if 50.1% of UK voters say out - then we go out, if 50.1% say stay in then we stay in.
Put it another way if we went with the suggestion Ms Sturgeon makes then 1 Scottish vote would be worth 10 English voters - an intenable situation if someone just thought about it for a nano second.
If I was female and a rugmuncher, maybe.
But only maybe.
LOL, she's actually got a decent derriere
I can't remember you saying that Shetland or Orkney should have the power of veto over Scottish independence from the UK.
But the UK is not a federal state and there is no uncertainty over State vs Federal powers.
The UK delegates power to the regions - it has not delegated this particular to Scotland (or Wales or Northern Ireland) . As we just had a referendum on the whole thing you would think Nicola Sturgeon would know this and not try and pretend the UK is an analogue of the USA because it begins with the same word!
If Scotland had voted yes to independence do you think England and Wales should have been allowed to veto this - as it would change the status quo?:D
Sturgeon was not suggesting - she was insisting.
The UK is the EU member and the UK collectively decides if it wants to leave.
The SNP need less Sturgeon and more Shark.
If you want to draw meaningless conditions why not say you have to have a majority in every county? Its nonsense. A simple majority is all that is needed
Scotland, for better or worse, has chosen to remain part of the UK. Scotland must now accept that and Nicola Sturgeons interjection is void.
Well that is your opinion of course but IMO I think she has done OK with this so far
Would not expect anything less from the Torygraph
Doubt it will cause NS a moments worry
Scotland voted to stay in the UK with the offer of quasi federalism and home rule if we did. It is in keeping with this and the idea that the UK is a family of equal nations that in any normal situation what Sturgeon is saying wouldn't provoke the hysterical and predictable shrieks of outrage from English posters who cannot get their heads around the fact that it ought not to be their God given right to dictate to the other nations in the Union what happens. There is no union, there is no respect and there is nor relationship of equals. Expect Sturgeon to grab every opportunity she has to expose the colonial attitude of England to the countries under it's control.
No.....you get a grip. Very telling that you're calling the vow nonsense.
Maybe the surly lodger description does not apply to most Scots you know but it's certainly the perception that much of the English media propagates. Haven't you noticed how the Scots and Welsh are portrayed?
Most amusing that this idea of being equals means the normal democratic process is ignored, i.e. the ballot box, and there was no interest in equals when it came to the Scottish independence referendum. The SNP are the cake and halfpenny party.
In federal states the opinions of all the different areas of that state's opinion would be taken into account. The UK is admittedly not federal but Scotland was told that our relationship with the UK was to become that which you would expect to see in a federal state. These are the words of Gordon Brown not Nicola Sturgeon. Scotland could end up dragged away from our friends and neighbours in the European community for no good reason. You can't expect us to do that quietly. It'll be one of the best chances we have to secure the break up of Britain in the next couple of years.
What Gordon Brown, who is a Scottish bankbench MP, said is irrelevant. If the UK leaves the EU will be for the very good reason that majority of the electorate votes to. If Scotland subsequently wishes to hold an independence referendum and leave the UK and apply to join the EU it is free to do so
Is it?
Well why wouldn't it be?
More like another attempt to allow the Scottish tail wag the English dog.
As in many a family gathering, Scotland is the troublesome, drunk, black-sheep Uncle in the corner, occasionally rousing from it's whisky-soaked slumber, to utter a few choice expletives, then falls back into a coma, at which point, the rest of the family roll their eyes, smile knowingly at each other and then continue business as usual.
Or perhaps a few kippers?;-)