It's not prejudice that would stop decent people wanting to join such an organisation. Ex-member Boris Johnson has called it "a truly shameful vignette of almost superhuman undergraduate arrogance, toffishness and twittishness."
Sounds like just another case of ' I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member' !
That's strange. The "liberal progressives" I've met seem remarkably free of prejudices. And surely any decent person would baulk at joining the Bullingdon club!
I've often found that it's not that they're free of prejudice, just that they only ever recognise it in others.
What are the links between the EDL and UKIP? I would be worried about any party who had ties with the EDL.
If there are any it should be easy enough to find the evidence, After all the links between the equally violent UAF and Labour are pretty well documented.
I know the OP is most concerned about feminism, and I don't disagree it's important, it's not my main worry about UKIP.
The main problem is that UKIP is a single-issue party which has claimed it will disband if their 'issue' is settled to their satisfaction. This is a problem bacause while many people are concerned about immigration and the EU, it's one of many, many issues but their supporters see it as the MOST important one and the main parties feel they have to respond and it may well mess up the normal process of the UK electorate voting for government based on ALL the issues.
If we had PR (proper PR, not the faint shadow of it we were offered) then it wouldn't be a problem as people for whom immigration and EU were core topics could vote UKIP and we'd get the appropriate number of MPs in parliament. As it is under FPTP the two biggest parties (esp. Tories) may feel the need to accomodate UKIP policies just to avoid losing support and to get back into power; many other important issues will be pushed aside.
If only we had proper democratic way to choose a government.
It's not prejudice that would stop decent people wanting to join such an organisation. Ex-member Boris Johnson has called it "a truly shameful vignette of almost superhuman undergraduate arrogance, toffishness and twittishness."
Well that seems to say that if you want to join you were not decent but become decent with age when you recognise it for what it was. Decent people do stupid things especially in their plooky youth and possibly a little later. WE are spoilt for choice with regards examples.
I've often found that it's not that they're free of prejudice, just that they only ever recognise it in others.
If there are any it should be easy enough to find the evidence, After all the links between the equally violent UAF and Labour are pretty well documented.
David Cameron is also a supporter of UAF
Cannot see him backing the EDL
There is a possibility that 2015 could throw up a freak result.
A UKIP and Tory government would mean irreparable changes to this county.
I can see why people are upset about immigration, about Europe, but it's not the be all and and all and a price worth paying in regards to what the likes of UKIP would get up to elesewhere.
I'll never understand why some people wish to hand the government more power to do whatever they like with them and to hand work bosses the same. Both of those things come under UKIP.
I am slightly more concerned about the comments from 'Peter' the Ukip small & medium business spokesperson..... sorry, spokesMAN (eeeh It takes me right back to the 70s)
I'd have thought you'd be nostalgic for the '70s given that trades' unions were much more powerful and most of the major industries were nationalised.
"Spokesman" is the correct term as he's male. If we didn't know the gender the person would be a "spokesperson". To me the term is as grating as pronouncing "aitch" as "haitch", or is that now the politically correct way of pronouncing it?
Anyway, I still prefer "personnel" to the hideous and insulting "human resources". I am a person when being referred to as a non-gender specific group. I am not a "human resource", which is ironically dehumanising.
However, I wonder if the people who support UKIP know anything about (or care about) their rather worrying lack of interest in supporting the women of Britain. As a woman, I was more than a little shocked to see that Nigel Farage wants to do away with paid maternity leave and that he himself thinks that any company which employes a young, single woman is crazy (supposedly because they might one day decide to have a family).
Believe it or not those who may decide to vote for UKIP pay as much attention to the news as you do. There are so many people at the moment eager to "educate" potential UKIP voters. Who says any of them need educating? Just because you may not agree with a particular policy doesn't mean others can't.
I feel your concern is genuine and well placed. However your point above seems incorrect. The comment's Nigel made regarding employment were explained in detail at the time. His point was that in the financial sector.. a very competitive work place where client contact relationships are vital.. his point was if a woman who wants to make this her career were to have children this may cause a problem due to her absence from the work place and her client relationships suffering as a result.
Agree or not, he's entitled to his opinion. And it's one that appears to be shared by the tech sector with some silicon valley tech companies offering female employees the option of freezing their eggs to use later in their careers to allow them to focus on their work. I personally don't agree with the idea but it's a similar issue as Nigel touched on.
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David Cameron is also a supporter of UAF
Cannot see him backing the EDL
Extreme left, extreme right...both just as bad and need to be under control......BTW, where is it documented that the "shiney faced git" Cameron is a UAF supporter...funded and supported by Labour I think you'll find.
Extreme left, extreme right...both just as bad and need to be under control......BTW, where is it documented that the "shiney faced git" Cameron is a UAF supporter...funded and supported by Labour I think you'll find.
David Cameron was one of the signatories to the UAF founding statement
There is a possibility that 2015 could throw up a freak result.
A UKIP and Tory government would mean irreparable changes to this county.
I can see why people are upset about immigration, about Europe, but it's not the be all and and all and a price worth paying in regards to what the likes of UKIP would get up to elesewhere.
Nothing is irreparable.
Sometimes things need to be broken in order to allow them to be fixed.
What is there to be scared of exactly? Wanting the UK to be a truly independent nation with control of its laws like the 180 plus nations outside the EU?
We get a referendum and potentially vote to leave the EU - and Cameron, Clegg and Miliband as a result really are in charge of running the country?! Now the latter prospect is possibly truly scary!:D
BNP splinter group praises Mark Reckless and says Ukip is 'singing from same hymn sheet'
Jayda Fransen, Britain First's deputy leader, said there was "absolutely" no difference between the two parties, despite Nigel Farage repeatedly disassociating Ukip from far-right groups.
She also praised Mr Reckless's defection from the Tories and urged Britain First supporters considering backing a larger party to vote Ukip in this month's Rochester by-election.
I'd have thought you'd be nostalgic for the '70s given that trades' unions were much more powerful and most of the major industries were nationalised.
"Spokesman" is the correct term as he's male. If we didn't know the gender the person would be a "spokesperson". To me the term is as grating as pronouncing "aitch" as "haitch", or is that now the politically correct way of pronouncing it?
Anyway, I still prefer "personnel" to the hideous and insulting "human resources". I am a person when being referred to as a non-gender specific group. I am not a "human resource", which is ironically dehumanising.
You sort of get a feeling of déjà vous - we have just seen classic examples of the usual UKIP voters and supporters are all fascists and Nazis nonsense we see too often on here and it gets just a little tedious. It's a pity that certain anti UKIP posters on here would rather dredge up dirt from the gutter and engage in endless guilt by very indirect association than debate the issues around EU membership and the government of our country.
You sort of get a feeling of déjà vous - we have just seen classic examples of the usual UKIP voters and supporters are all fascists and Nazis nonsense we see too often on here and it gets just a little tedious. It's a pity that certain anti UKIP posters on here would rather dredge up dirt from the gutter and engage in endless guilt by very indirect association than debate the issues around EU membership and the government of our country.
The same thing happens eventually on virtually every thread in Politics. Dig for dirt on UKIP, call their followers all the names under the sun and then accuse them of being bigoted.
Honestly, some people have been so brainwashed they'd argue that black was white if they thought it was the right thing to do.
You sort of get a feeling of déjà vous - we have just seen classic examples of the usual UKIP voters and supporters are all fascists and Nazis nonsense we see too often on here and it gets just a little tedious. It's a pity that certain anti UKIP posters on here would rather dredge up dirt from the gutter and engage in endless guilt by very indirect association than debate the issues around EU membership and the government of our country.
Read the thread title again
Perfect place to bring up what posters find worrying about UKIP
One of the issues is the links that UKIP may have with the EDL and other such groups
Read the thread title again
Perfect place to bring up what posters find worrying about UKIP
One of the issues is the links that UKIP may have with the EDL and other such groups
Those links do not demonstrate a link between UKIP and the EDL.
What they do demonstrate, however, is the willingness of racists and xenophobes to support UKIP.
To date, UKIP have shown no inclination whatsoever to distance themselves from such people. UKIP supporters are, generally, more extreme than the UKIP top brass like to present.
If UKIP supporters don't like this being said, tough. That's free speech for you.
The same thing happens eventually on virtually every thread in Politics. Dig for dirt on UKIP, call their followers all the names under the sun and then accuse them of being bigoted.
Honestly, some people have been so brainwashed they'd argue that black was white if they thought it was the right thing to do.
This happens to every party on here but only Kipsters start bleating about it
You sort of get a feeling of déjà vous - we have just seen classic examples of the usual UKIP voters and supporters are all fascists and Nazis nonsense we see too often on here and it gets just a little tedious. It's a pity that certain anti UKIP posters on here would rather dredge up dirt from the gutter and engage in endless guilt by very indirect association than debate the issues around EU membership and the government of our country.
The same thing happens eventually on virtually every thread in Politics. Dig for dirt on UKIP, call their followers all the names under the sun and then accuse them of being bigoted.
Honestly, some people have been so brainwashed they'd argue that black was white if they thought it was the right thing to do.
This happens to every party on here but only Kipsters start bleating about it
I'm not sure it does. I don't know who I'm going to vote for next May (although I definitely know who I'm not going to vote for) so I am by no means a 'Kipster', but the vitriol towards UKIP seems to go much further than it does with the other parties.
There don't seem to be any rules, no line that you don't cross - unlike LibLabCon. It seems to be perfectly acceptable to call any UKIP member or supporter whatever you like, and the rest of the loony left snigger from on high.
I've never seen this before in UK politics. One thing's for sure, next year's GE is going to be interesting.
I'm not sure it does. I don't know who I'm going to vote for next May (although I definitely know who I'm not going to vote for) so I am by no means a 'Kipster', but the vitriol towards UKIP seems to go much further than it does with the other parties.
There don't seem to be any rules, no line that you don't cross - unlike LibLabCon. It seems to be perfectly acceptable to call any UKIP member or supporter whatever you like, and the rest of the loony left snigger from on high.
I've never seen this before in UK politics. One thing's for sure, next year's GE is going to be interesting.
Care to point out any lines that have been crossed in this thread?
Comments
Sounds like just another case of ' I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member' !
I've often found that it's not that they're free of prejudice, just that they only ever recognise it in others.
If there are any it should be easy enough to find the evidence, After all the links between the equally violent UAF and Labour are pretty well documented.
The main problem is that UKIP is a single-issue party which has claimed it will disband if their 'issue' is settled to their satisfaction. This is a problem bacause while many people are concerned about immigration and the EU, it's one of many, many issues but their supporters see it as the MOST important one and the main parties feel they have to respond and it may well mess up the normal process of the UK electorate voting for government based on ALL the issues.
If we had PR (proper PR, not the faint shadow of it we were offered) then it wouldn't be a problem as people for whom immigration and EU were core topics could vote UKIP and we'd get the appropriate number of MPs in parliament. As it is under FPTP the two biggest parties (esp. Tories) may feel the need to accomodate UKIP policies just to avoid losing support and to get back into power; many other important issues will be pushed aside.
If only we had proper democratic way to choose a government.
Well that seems to say that if you want to join you were not decent but become decent with age when you recognise it for what it was. Decent people do stupid things especially in their plooky youth and possibly a little later. WE are spoilt for choice with regards examples.
David Cameron is also a supporter of UAF
Cannot see him backing the EDL
There is a possibility that 2015 could throw up a freak result.
A UKIP and Tory government would mean irreparable changes to this county.
I can see why people are upset about immigration, about Europe, but it's not the be all and and all and a price worth paying in regards to what the likes of UKIP would get up to elesewhere.
I'd have thought you'd be nostalgic for the '70s given that trades' unions were much more powerful and most of the major industries were nationalised.
"Spokesman" is the correct term as he's male. If we didn't know the gender the person would be a "spokesperson". To me the term is as grating as pronouncing "aitch" as "haitch", or is that now the politically correct way of pronouncing it?
Anyway, I still prefer "personnel" to the hideous and insulting "human resources". I am a person when being referred to as a non-gender specific group. I am not a "human resource", which is ironically dehumanising.
And "I am a free man !"
Believe it or not those who may decide to vote for UKIP pay as much attention to the news as you do. There are so many people at the moment eager to "educate" potential UKIP voters. Who says any of them need educating? Just because you may not agree with a particular policy doesn't mean others can't.
I feel your concern is genuine and well placed. However your point above seems incorrect. The comment's Nigel made regarding employment were explained in detail at the time. His point was that in the financial sector.. a very competitive work place where client contact relationships are vital.. his point was if a woman who wants to make this her career were to have children this may cause a problem due to her absence from the work place and her client relationships suffering as a result.
Explained here:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/20/nigel-farage-women-sacrifice-family-succeed-finance-ukip
Agree or not, he's entitled to his opinion. And it's one that appears to be shared by the tech sector with some silicon valley tech companies offering female employees the option of freezing their eggs to use later in their careers to allow them to focus on their work. I personally don't agree with the idea but it's a similar issue as Nigel touched on.
Extreme left, extreme right...both just as bad and need to be under control......BTW, where is it documented that the "shiney faced git" Cameron is a UAF supporter...funded and supported by Labour I think you'll find.
David Cameron was one of the signatories to the UAF founding statement
Nothing is irreparable.
Sometimes things need to be broken in order to allow them to be fixed.
We get a referendum and potentially vote to leave the EU - and Cameron, Clegg and Miliband as a result really are in charge of running the country?! Now the latter prospect is possibly truly scary!:D
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/04/04/edls-tommy-robinson-endorses-ukip-_n_3014019.html
http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/04/english-defence-league-urges-nationalist-parties-to-stand-aside-for-ukip-3583323/
http://politicalscrapbook.net/2013/04/racist-english-defence-league-announce-support-for-ukip/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11194901/BNP-splinter-group-praises-Mark-Reckless-and-says-Ukip-is-singing-from-same-hymn-sheet.html?ref=hihidnews
Calm down me old china, I was having a giraffe
Informative as always
The same thing happens eventually on virtually every thread in Politics. Dig for dirt on UKIP, call their followers all the names under the sun and then accuse them of being bigoted.
Honestly, some people have been so brainwashed they'd argue that black was white if they thought it was the right thing to do.
Read the thread title again
Perfect place to bring up what posters find worrying about UKIP
One of the issues is the links that UKIP may have with the EDL and other such groups
Those links do not demonstrate a link between UKIP and the EDL.
What they do demonstrate, however, is the willingness of racists and xenophobes to support UKIP.
To date, UKIP have shown no inclination whatsoever to distance themselves from such people. UKIP supporters are, generally, more extreme than the UKIP top brass like to present.
If UKIP supporters don't like this being said, tough. That's free speech for you.
This happens to every party on here but only Kipsters start bleating about it
Oh the irony...
I'm not sure it does. I don't know who I'm going to vote for next May (although I definitely know who I'm not going to vote for) so I am by no means a 'Kipster', but the vitriol towards UKIP seems to go much further than it does with the other parties.
There don't seem to be any rules, no line that you don't cross - unlike LibLabCon. It seems to be perfectly acceptable to call any UKIP member or supporter whatever you like, and the rest of the loony left snigger from on high.
I've never seen this before in UK politics. One thing's for sure, next year's GE is going to be interesting.
Care to point out any lines that have been crossed in this thread?
I could, but I get the feeling that for some people there is no line as far as UKIP is concerned. Which was my previous point.