Posting 'scattergun' accusations like that does not help your cause. Some of the women posting in this thread are behaving just as stubbornly as some of the men and are equally refusing to listen, or take on board points they do not accept. And some of us never have, never do and never will behave like any of the men extracted from that 10 hours of video. But we (though I can only speak for myself) do sometimes say hello to strangers in the street or countryside: male, female, black or white. The difference is that most of us who do that wait for cues before doing so, and usually, the other person will do the same. I for one would never have said even 'hello' to a stranger blankly staring ahead as they walked by, like the actor in that video, unless they looked like they needed help with a serious problem.
I don't for one moment doubt the experiences described by some women in this thread but individual experiences do not usually make a case for official action unless a law is being broken. To get that, you need evidence and the best way to get it is to collate and publish the experiences of many women and men, in different places and situations, then press for an independent investigation of the kind I have mentioned several times in other posts. One heavily edited video of one actor by a director in one city does not constitute that, and will change few if any minds.
But the video will raise awareness for a short while so the next step is the important one: press for an independent investigation into the problem, a problem that in my part of the UK does not seem to be significant, judging by what the women I know and see every week tell me. We all need to know where it is a problem, and why it is a problem in those places, before we can start to fix it. Just don't expect everyone to believe that what they see in an isolated and uncontrolled video like that from a pressure group is the norm in most places and by the vast majority of men. Maybe it is... maybe not... but we just don't know.
One final thing. Most of the comments and cat-calls made in that video wouldn't be considered illegal in the UK. Would you and others like them to be made illegal? If so, how would such a law be framed? If not, what?
Well done for exemplifying precisely the phenomenon Mary described. Your post is a case in point.
Who has talked about 'official action' or making things 'illegal'? I've not seen that mentioned. The discussion is about attitudes and behaviour which can't be policed in any official way.
It's a problem 'that does not seem to be significant' does it? Well if Dave on the net doesn't think it's a problem then we all stand corrected.
I've no idea why you think women would discuss sexual harassment with you in detail other than your partner. I don't tell my husband most of it, only the funny ones or the more serious ones. I certainly wouldn't discuss gross sexual comments with men other than him or my close friends, unless it's part of a general debate like this one.
There are plenty of intelligent men who get it d@ve, if you don't, that's your problem.
Well done for exemplifying precisely the phenomenon Mary described. Your post is a case in point.
Who has talked about 'official action' or making things 'illegal'? I've not seen that mentioned. The discussion is about attitudes and behaviour which can't be policed in any official way.
It's a problem 'that does not seem to be significant' does it? Well if Dave on the net doesn't think it's a problem then we all stand corrected.
I've no idea why you think women would discuss sexual harassment with you in detail other than your partner. I don't tell my husband most of it, only the funny ones or the more serious ones. I certainly wouldn't discuss gross sexual comments with men other than him or my close friends, unless it's part of a general debate like this one.
There are plenty of intelligent men who get it d@ve, if you don't, that's your problem.
It's no use, Christa. Their attitudes are far too ingrained. They won't listen, because they don't want to listen
I've been visiting this thread periodically over the past few days, and have posted my opinion though not my experience (which is pretty much the same as lots of other women have described). I've read a lot of the posts, though far from all of them, but the conversations seem to follow a set pattern:
A woman gives her opinion on the video and perhaps describes her own experience of street harassment - or being greeted by random men on the street if you prefer - while out and about on her private business. And describes how she feels about it, and why. The vast majority of women have said they don't like it. No one, male or female - as far as I have seen - has described anything particularly positive coming out of either (as a man) accosting an unkown woman on the street or (as a woman) being accosted in this way, at least not from first-hand experience.
Each woman who takes the time to decribe her experience is contradicted by (overwhelmingly) male posters, ridiculed, belittled, and - frankly - abused, until they give up and go away. The points they are making are certainly not taken on board in these replies. Some men are writing posts that do listen to the women posters' experiences and opinions, which is a great comfort. But such these are oases in a desert of abuse.
The impression I am left with is of a - small thankfully - band of men ganging up to ignore, ridicule and belittle women (specifically women's right to describe their own experience), and so reinforce their comforting belief that they are good and normal blokes, and can just carry on behaving as they like, in the face of a discussion that is asking them to examine and perhaps reconsider one small aspect of that behaviour.
"A woman got killed the other day for doing that in Detroit, actually," she said, referring to 27-year-old Mary Spears, who was shot dead after refusing to give a man her phone number. "You sir, do not know what you're talking about."
Shit
She (and others) were shot after he was chucked out of the club and her fiancé confronted him and they started fighting. It was a month ago.
I think I've seen and heard enough to know that this is a real problem for our brothers, dads, sons and male friends & relatives and it's something that women and gay men need to think about and change.
You don't think saying hello to a woman on the street requires legislation? That's mightily big of you.
Thanks, although clearly you've inserted the phrase saying hello to a woman into your final statement when I was talking about the spectrum of street harassment, and not, saying hello on it's own.
Anyway, just so as I understand your point correctly - you're saying that because this happens to guys too, we shouldn't worry so much about how much it happens to women or how it makes them feel? Is that right?
Or is it more that you don't think women are seeing the attention they receive in the right way? They are wrong to feel uncomfortable about it and should just accept the attention they receive in public spaces?
Or maybe I've completely misunderstood the general tone and intent of some of your posts, and you're just saying, I like to approach women in the street without any cue and my right to do that is the most important thing?
I'm not using sarcasm, I'm genuinely interested in what you're trying to achieve here, as your point isn't very clear.
Thanks, although clearly you've inserted the phrase saying hello to a woman into your final statement when I was talking about the spectrum of street harassment, and not, saying hello on it's own.
Anyway, just so as I understand your point correctly - you're saying that because this happens to guys too, we shouldn't worry so much about how much it happens to women or how it makes them feel? Is that right?
Or is it more that you don't think women are seeing the attention they receive in the right way? They are wrong to feel uncomfortable about it and should just accept the attention they receive in public spaces?
Or maybe I've completely misunderstood the general tone and intent of some of your posts, and you're just saying, I like to approach women in the street without any cue and my right to do that is the most important thing?
I'm not using sarcasm, I'm genuinely interested in what you're trying to achieve here, as your point isn't very clear.
You seem to be arguing with yourself, my response was tongue-in-cheek. It does make me wonder though, where is your impassioned speech for all of the males? Or were you playing to the gallery?
You've learned a valuable life lesson, that the world does not revolve around you or what offends your delicate sensibilities.
You're welcome.
What a thing to say - so some dick of an east euro guy attacked her - is that some warped life lesson that you think she deserved - she has battled away here and is far from a delicate flower having to deal with some of you - now how was it said by someone - let me say it slowwwwwwwwwwwwwly .........
time to deflate the ego.
What a thing to say - so some dick of an east euro guy attacked her - is that some warped life lesson that you think she deserved - she has battled away here and is far from a delicate flower having to deal with some of you - now how was it said by someone - let me say it slowwwwwwwwwwwwwly .........
time to deflate the ego.
Another absolutely absurd and irrelevant straw man.
Another absolutely absurd and irrelevant straw man.
not really frank - i get both sides - but when it descends into point scoring and last words blah blah - what is left but silly insults and name calling.
She reckoned there was "nothing wrong in that" (asking for a strangers number). Not something i'd personally do as i think folk would probably have me sectioned.
However....she thinks it ok for women to do....but it's not ok for men. Double standards there.
I mentioned that earlier in the thread. It was in the last month. I live in a posh area of London. An Eastern European guy collared me, then, when I wouldn't go with him, proceeded to try and drag me away... A random guy at the bus stop behind me had to step in to get rid of him.
Hhmmm. My daughter-in law lives in Richmond. Used to work in Central London, recently moved to an Office on the outskirts. She regularly walks out alone and when she was in Central, did far more 'on foot' than she did with her car.....in fact her job involves her being independent. She's young, she's attractive, she dresses well.......but she's never ever experienced the scenario you portray.
As for the 'East European' comment. Good job you've got them otherwise London would fall on it's arse. On the one hand they provide a readily available source of cheap labour to the wealthy and on the other they snap up properties such as One Hyde Park (you should know who lives there).
Chelsea isn't more commonly known as 'Chelski' for nothing.
I've been groped, kerb-crawled, followed, chased... Do you live in some Enid Blyton world where sex assaults don't happen??
Some straight men are very naïve about some men's sexual behaviour.
I live in a village in the North West on the Cheshire/Staffs border. The nearest town is about 8 miles away. The town is perfectly fine in the day but come the evening it's full of lads strutting around like peacocks and girl teetering around in their best Jimmy Choos and falling out of their micro dresses. I've long matured from that 'scene'.
For sure there are certain areas where girls get kerb crawled and much more than just groped......as that's what they're there for. They certainly aren't there for an evening stroll or a spot of window shopping.
She hardly said two words and he interrupted.......
Eh???
You must have been viewing an entirely different video clip. She prattled away like a machine gun and at times i could barely understand a word she was saying and i was wondering when she was going to surface for air.
Hhmmm. My daughter-in law lives in Richmond. Used to work in Central London, recently moved to an Office on the outskirts. She regularly walks out alone and when she was in Central, did far more 'on foot' than she did with her car.....in fact her job involves her being independent. She's young, she's attractive, she dresses well.......but she's never ever experienced the scenario you portray.
Do you realise how daft that makes you sound? By your logic, no one had ever been in a plane crash because it never happened to you.
Comments
Not just the one...
And that's all you took from that video?
Yeah, that had crossed my mind...
It's no use, Christa. Their attitudes are far too ingrained. They won't listen, because they don't want to listen
I know.
The tragedy is that there are so many possible candidates.
We're wasting our time. This poster nailed it earlier today.
Agreed. It was a great post and hit the nail on the head, there's nothing more to be said.
I'm off, take care y'all.
She (and others) were shot after he was chucked out of the club and her fiancé confronted him and they started fighting. It was a month ago.
That's correct.
You've learned a valuable life lesson, that the world does not revolve around you or what offends your delicate sensibilities.
You're welcome.
Thanks, although clearly you've inserted the phrase saying hello to a woman into your final statement when I was talking about the spectrum of street harassment, and not, saying hello on it's own.
Anyway, just so as I understand your point correctly - you're saying that because this happens to guys too, we shouldn't worry so much about how much it happens to women or how it makes them feel? Is that right?
Or is it more that you don't think women are seeing the attention they receive in the right way? They are wrong to feel uncomfortable about it and should just accept the attention they receive in public spaces?
Or maybe I've completely misunderstood the general tone and intent of some of your posts, and you're just saying, I like to approach women in the street without any cue and my right to do that is the most important thing?
I'm not using sarcasm, I'm genuinely interested in what you're trying to achieve here, as your point isn't very clear.
You seem to be arguing with yourself, my response was tongue-in-cheek. It does make me wonder though, where is your impassioned speech for all of the males? Or were you playing to the gallery?
What a thing to say - so some dick of an east euro guy attacked her - is that some warped life lesson that you think she deserved - she has battled away here and is far from a delicate flower having to deal with some of you - now how was it said by someone - let me say it slowwwwwwwwwwwwwly .........
time to deflate the ego.
Another absolutely absurd and irrelevant straw man.
not really frank - i get both sides - but when it descends into point scoring and last words blah blah - what is left but silly insults and name calling.
However....she thinks it ok for women to do....but it's not ok for men. Double standards there.
Hhmmm. My daughter-in law lives in Richmond. Used to work in Central London, recently moved to an Office on the outskirts. She regularly walks out alone and when she was in Central, did far more 'on foot' than she did with her car.....in fact her job involves her being independent. She's young, she's attractive, she dresses well.......but she's never ever experienced the scenario you portray.
As for the 'East European' comment. Good job you've got them otherwise London would fall on it's arse. On the one hand they provide a readily available source of cheap labour to the wealthy and on the other they snap up properties such as One Hyde Park (you should know who lives there).
Chelsea isn't more commonly known as 'Chelski' for nothing.
I live in a village in the North West on the Cheshire/Staffs border. The nearest town is about 8 miles away. The town is perfectly fine in the day but come the evening it's full of lads strutting around like peacocks and girl teetering around in their best Jimmy Choos and falling out of their micro dresses. I've long matured from that 'scene'.
For sure there are certain areas where girls get kerb crawled and much more than just groped......as that's what they're there for. They certainly aren't there for an evening stroll or a spot of window shopping.
You must have been viewing an entirely different video clip. She prattled away like a machine gun and at times i could barely understand a word she was saying and i was wondering when she was going to surface for air.
Do you realise how daft that makes you sound? By your logic, no one had ever been in a plane crash because it never happened to you.
Quit replying then, instead of baiting.