As I've said before, there's a big difference between doctor who fans a general viewers!
What's that supposed to mean? Only general viewers must like Clara wheareas "Real" Fans don't? Because I'm telling you now I'm a big Who fan who just happens to like Clara, no general viewing from me! Plus it's that type of "in the box" argument I hate, you could use that argument for anything to suit your views.
For e.g. Me and my other Whovian friends can't stand Rose whearas a none Fan friend does, therefore Real Fans must all hate Rose. See what's wrong with that arguement? That's just between me and my friends, it doesn't reflect the Fandom as a whole and it would be silly to just assume it does in order to fit my opinion.
What's that supposed to mean? Only general viewers must like Clara wheareas "Real" Fans don't? Because I'm telling you now I'm a big Who fan who just happens to like Clara, no general viewing from me! Plus it's that type of "in the box" argument I hate, you could use that argument for anything to suit your views.
For e.g. Me and my other Whovian friends can't stand Rose whearas a none Fan friend does, therefore Real Fans must all hate Rose. See what's wrong with that arguement? That's just between me and my friends, it doesn't reflect the Fandom as a whole and it would be silly to just assume it does in order to fit my opinion.
(If I mis-understood your post, I apologise.)
I just meant that polls of Doctor Who fans don't really mean much as we only makeup a small percentage of overall viewing figures. The smart money should always be on viewers more generally.
As an example, Whovians regularly voted Matt Smith their favourite Doctor here and on DWM polls. But in broader polls (Radio Times, Entertainment Weekly etc) David Tennant wiped the floor with the opposition.
I just worry that the show is doing what it did in the mid eighties and focussing too much on what fans want rather than thinking of making a show viewers more generally will enjoy.
The decision to keep Clara doesn't seem in synch with the opinion viewers more generally have about her.
Discussing Doctor Who would be a lot easier without the former. Although it wouldn't be on the air, so that would help.
Nobody can speak for either group at large. Always so much hyperbole thrown around. One minute Clara is the saving grace of the show, the next she's dragging the whole series down. Pesky opinions.
I doubt the production team work on the basis that 100% of the audience are going to be overjoyed with 100% of their choices - no matter how smug Moffat's hair looks in interviews.
Yes, I agree with a lot of what you say. But I think as writers, I am surprised they think there's another year of stories out of Clara. And as a production team, to have the chance to dump all that heavy Impossible Girl/Danny Pink baggage and start afresh with someone new and different and to say - instead - "no, another year of the same" is just a bonkers decision.
Me three. I've been avoiding any spoilers/rumours/news since it was fist suggested she might be going, so I'd been hoping it wasn't true. So when she did seem to be on her way out during (what seemed to be) her final scene, I was gutted.
And then Santa appeared one last time and I was like "You bloody beauty!" and air was indeed punched, albeit metaphorically.
Very happy she is staying. Jenna and Peter work really well together and Clara is the best New Who companion. I look forwarding to seeing her travel full time with the doctor without the forced Danny Pink romance. Clara and Doctor's relationship is now at a point that is really endearing to see.
Great news!!
Very happy she is staying. Jenna and Peter work really well together and Clara is the best New Who companion. I look forwarding to seeing her travel full time with the doctor without the forced Danny Pink romance. Clara and Doctor's relationship is now at a point that is really endearing to see.
Great news!!
You've plucked this from my mind.
Clara and the Doctor are beautiful together as are Jenna and Peter. Amazing news that she's staying.
I need an 'absolutely ecstatic she's staying' poll option. I couldn't be happier that she's staying. Love Clara/Jenna and I love the relationship/spark between her and Peter. Can't wait for the new series and even more excited it won't contain Danny sodden Pink!! (Well it better not anyway!!)
I think I may be the only person in the universe without the surname 'Moffat' who really likes Danny Pink and enjoys his wise down-to-earthness. I don't find him boring at all. I love Clara's cheek and confidence, and find her a much more loving and likeable character than Amy. I think Jenna and PC play off each other superbly. I am deeply appreciative of not having to deal with any concept of the Doctor and companion having a romantic spark.
So either I'm being eaten by a dream crab, or I'm one Who fan in a million?
I like Clara and am glad she's staying but please no more of Danny Pink, who might have been necessary for the overall series story arc but personally, there was far too much time spent on the romance, for me.
Wondering whether that romance was written in in case some people thought, " The Doctor is too old for her" ie people who might watch the programme but not really understand a more complex, relationship with the Doctor who isn't of course just the one someone is seeing on screen. Actually, Peter Capaldi is fifty five, not decrepit and is an attractive bloke but maybe, the story arc was covering a possible, " He shouldn't have a pretty, female companion" daft notion. The media might have put the boot in as well. Hence - a romance.
Jenna and Peter seem to have far more chemistry together as actors than Clara and Danny did. There's no need for romance in the simplistic sense. but in the Christmas episode, I think it showed how close Clara and the Doctor are in a much more complex and believable way.
Anyway - glad she's staying and relieved that the Mills and Boone Danny Pink storyline seems to have ended.
Sure, it does sometimes seem like the show's all about her but, then again, that was often the case with Amelia Pond too, who seems to be held in god-like regard by a lot of DW fans.
Nobody seemed to have a problem with her back when she first appeared and, let's face it, she has always been a cocky know-it-all, right from the word go.
If she's become a character that irritates people, these days, it's probably the writers who're to blame rather than any fundamental flaw in the character.
Sure, it does sometimes seem like the show's all about her but, then again, that was often the case with Amelia Pond too, who seems to be held in god-like regard by a lot of DW fans.
Nobody seemed to have a problem with her back when she first appeared and, let's face it, she has always been a cocky know-it-all, right from the word go.
If she's become a character that irritates people, these days, it's probably the writers who're to blame rather than any fundamental flaw in the character.
Personally, whatever her flaws are supposed to be,, she comes across to me as being more intelligent, than Amy Pond was or perhaps the actress, does. That isn't always a popular trait, unfortunately.
Looking like a tall model and being more like someone more easy to relate to verbally etc might be more appealing to a proportion of the male audience than a character being a very pretty indeed but short and ' too' highly intelligent female. Amy - the physical ideal and not a ' know it all' would of course, be more popular.
I'll get my coat ...
I think I may be the only person in the universe without the surname 'Moffat' who really likes Danny Pink and enjoys his wise down-to-earthness.
See, I didn't really mind Danny as a character.
I recall hearing, when PC first got the job, that the show was going to start reflecting the old Hartnell era, where DW was a sort of eccentric old uncle and you have a couple of younger people doing all the running around.
In that sort of situation, it might've been quite interesting to have Danny along for the ride, being all down-to-Earth and criticising anything morally ambiguous that DW gets up to.
The biggest problem with Danny was, IMO, more because of poor writing than anything else.
If you think back to how the relationship between Rory and Amy was portrayed, and how it had an impact on DW, it all seemed fairly "natural".
You never really felt like you were being asked to accept anything that came as a surprise.
With Clara and Danny, it seemed like one minute there was a bit of flirty banter at school and, perhaps, a couple of curries in front of the TV and then, the next minute, he's off saving the world out of love for Clara and she's prepared to die for the bloke she loves with all her heart. Apparently.
Seems like they were always too busy writing Clara as the sassy, wisecracking, smart-ass to ever have time to flesh out her relationship with Danny but then they're asking the audience to accept that they made decisions that affected the whole universe based on this deeply-felt but completely invisible relationship which we're supposed to believe existed even though we never really saw it.
I like the way her teacher character links back to the original series in the 60's with Susan as a child at Coalhill School,in the same way as Capaldi's doctor links back to the original. doctor. In that sense they are true time travelling companions, exploring the nature of reality/fantasy....which is something that existed from the beginning with Susan as a "child with an over reaching imagination".Imagination is the key to their stories.
I think I may be the only person in the universe without the surname 'Moffat' who really likes Danny Pink and enjoys his wise down-to-earthness. I don't find him boring at all. I love Clara's cheek and confidence, and find her a much more loving and likeable character than Amy. I think Jenna and PC play off each other superbly. I am deeply appreciative of not having to deal with any concept of the Doctor and companion having a romantic spark.
So either I'm being eaten by a dream crab, or I'm one Who fan in a million?
I wouldn't say I "like" Danny per se but I am pretty neuteral towards him and don't quite understand the flack he's getting? Come on folks there are much worse "Who" characters than Danny, he doesn't even come close in the most hated list (with that horrid brat from "Nightmare In Silver" taking up the No.1 spot for me)! But then that's just me.
I voted OK... it'll be great though if she becomes a full time companion and doesn't keep going home again after each adventure with the Doctor. THAT was the thing that really grated on me with Clara (and Amy and Rory towards the end of their tenure).
I don't think anyone hates her. Not like her and be annoyed by her yes, but hate is way too strong., though it seems to be the default when someone has a negative opinion of someone or something someone else likes.
I like the way her teacher character links back to the original series in the 60's with Susan as a child at Coalhill School,in the same way as Capaldi's doctor links back to the original. doctor. In that sense they are true time travelling companions, exploring the nature of reality/fantasy....which is something that existed from the beginning with Susan as a "child with an over reaching imagination".Imagination is the key to their stories.
It would have been nice if the 'Clara as a teacher at Coal Hill' thing had had a throwaway line to explain how she suddenly changed jobs and ended up there, presumably after.university of some kind of teaching training course as opposed to just being there.
The obvious link between the Doctor and Ian could have been mentioned.
Comments
What's that supposed to mean? Only general viewers must like Clara wheareas "Real" Fans don't? Because I'm telling you now I'm a big Who fan who just happens to like Clara, no general viewing from me! Plus it's that type of "in the box" argument I hate, you could use that argument for anything to suit your views.
For e.g. Me and my other Whovian friends can't stand Rose whearas a none Fan friend does, therefore Real Fans must all hate Rose. See what's wrong with that arguement? That's just between me and my friends, it doesn't reflect the Fandom as a whole and it would be silly to just assume it does in order to fit my opinion.
(If I mis-understood your post, I apologise.)
Clara would have made a good female Doctor
I just meant that polls of Doctor Who fans don't really mean much as we only makeup a small percentage of overall viewing figures. The smart money should always be on viewers more generally.
As an example, Whovians regularly voted Matt Smith their favourite Doctor here and on DWM polls. But in broader polls (Radio Times, Entertainment Weekly etc) David Tennant wiped the floor with the opposition.
I just worry that the show is doing what it did in the mid eighties and focussing too much on what fans want rather than thinking of making a show viewers more generally will enjoy.
The decision to keep Clara doesn't seem in synch with the opinion viewers more generally have about her.
Yes, I agree with a lot of what you say. But I think as writers, I am surprised they think there's another year of stories out of Clara. And as a production team, to have the chance to dump all that heavy Impossible Girl/Danny Pink baggage and start afresh with someone new and different and to say - instead - "no, another year of the same" is just a bonkers decision.
Me three. I've been avoiding any spoilers/rumours/news since it was fist suggested she might be going, so I'd been hoping it wasn't true. So when she did seem to be on her way out during (what seemed to be) her final scene, I was gutted.
And then Santa appeared one last time and I was like "You bloody beauty!" and air was indeed punched, albeit metaphorically.
my head hurts
Great news!!
There should be reaction videos of people watching those contrived ' :oOMG:o ' DW reaction videos
You've plucked this from my mind.
Clara and the Doctor are beautiful together as are Jenna and Peter. Amazing news that she's staying.
I jumped up screaming let alone punching the air
So either I'm being eaten by a dream crab, or I'm one Who fan in a million?
Wondering whether that romance was written in in case some people thought, " The Doctor is too old for her" ie people who might watch the programme but not really understand a more complex, relationship with the Doctor who isn't of course just the one someone is seeing on screen. Actually, Peter Capaldi is fifty five, not decrepit and is an attractive bloke but maybe, the story arc was covering a possible, " He shouldn't have a pretty, female companion" daft notion. The media might have put the boot in as well. Hence - a romance.
Jenna and Peter seem to have far more chemistry together as actors than Clara and Danny did. There's no need for romance in the simplistic sense. but in the Christmas episode, I think it showed how close Clara and the Doctor are in a much more complex and believable way.
Anyway - glad she's staying and relieved that the Mills and Boone Danny Pink storyline seems to have ended.
Sure, it does sometimes seem like the show's all about her but, then again, that was often the case with Amelia Pond too, who seems to be held in god-like regard by a lot of DW fans.
Nobody seemed to have a problem with her back when she first appeared and, let's face it, she has always been a cocky know-it-all, right from the word go.
If she's become a character that irritates people, these days, it's probably the writers who're to blame rather than any fundamental flaw in the character.
Personally, whatever her flaws are supposed to be,, she comes across to me as being more intelligent, than Amy Pond was or perhaps the actress, does. That isn't always a popular trait, unfortunately.
Looking like a tall model and being more like someone more easy to relate to verbally etc might be more appealing to a proportion of the male audience than a character being a very pretty indeed but short and ' too' highly intelligent female. Amy - the physical ideal and not a ' know it all' would of course, be more popular.
I'll get my coat ...
See, I didn't really mind Danny as a character.
I recall hearing, when PC first got the job, that the show was going to start reflecting the old Hartnell era, where DW was a sort of eccentric old uncle and you have a couple of younger people doing all the running around.
In that sort of situation, it might've been quite interesting to have Danny along for the ride, being all down-to-Earth and criticising anything morally ambiguous that DW gets up to.
The biggest problem with Danny was, IMO, more because of poor writing than anything else.
If you think back to how the relationship between Rory and Amy was portrayed, and how it had an impact on DW, it all seemed fairly "natural".
You never really felt like you were being asked to accept anything that came as a surprise.
With Clara and Danny, it seemed like one minute there was a bit of flirty banter at school and, perhaps, a couple of curries in front of the TV and then, the next minute, he's off saving the world out of love for Clara and she's prepared to die for the bloke she loves with all her heart. Apparently.
Seems like they were always too busy writing Clara as the sassy, wisecracking, smart-ass to ever have time to flesh out her relationship with Danny but then they're asking the audience to accept that they made decisions that affected the whole universe based on this deeply-felt but completely invisible relationship which we're supposed to believe existed even though we never really saw it.
I wouldn't say I "like" Danny per se but I am pretty neuteral towards him and don't quite understand the flack he's getting? Come on folks there are much worse "Who" characters than Danny, he doesn't even come close in the most hated list (with that horrid brat from "Nightmare In Silver" taking up the No.1 spot for me)! But then that's just me.
Also agree with the rest of your post.
I don't think anyone hates her. Not like her and be annoyed by her yes, but hate is way too strong., though it seems to be the default when someone has a negative opinion of someone or something someone else likes.
It would have been nice if the 'Clara as a teacher at Coal Hill' thing had had a throwaway line to explain how she suddenly changed jobs and ended up there, presumably after.university of some kind of teaching training course as opposed to just being there.
The obvious link between the Doctor and Ian could have been mentioned.