I had never heard of her before this year's Strictly Come Dancing. After seeing the carefully posed 'topless' pictures in the Mirror, I am beginning to think she is a very accomplished media operator (or someone on her staff is). I am wondering how carefully planned her victory in Strictly Come Dancing was.
Caroline Flack an 'ACCOMPLISHED MEDIA OPERATOR'? where on earth did you get that idea from?
Must admit I like the way the 'jugs' were planted in front of the 'jugs'! ;-)
Rita Ora could learn a thing or two about that maybe....:)
My point is that 35-yr-old Caroline delivered three routines a girl in her early twenties couldn't have bettered - whereas 25-yr-old Frankie delivered three routines 43-yr-old Susanna Reid could have matched.
And there we have it...the real reason for this thread. Nothing really to do with age, just trying to vindicate a caroline win. She was nowhere near as good as natalie last year for a start.....you think she couldn't have produced better ?
Plus, as has now been stated ad-infinitum, but ignored by yourself and all those media luvvies who hyped up caroline but slaughtered pixie and frankie during the shows run.....caroline had years of previous dance training. HARDLY A SURPRISE SHE DELIVERED GOOD ROUTINES FROM THE VERY START THEN, WAS IT.
And there we have it...the real reason for this thread. Nothing really to do with age, just trying to vindicate a caroline win. She was nowhere near as good as natalie last year for a start.....you think she couldn't have produced better ?
Plus, as has now been stated ad-infinitum, but ignored by yourself and all those media luvvies who hyped up caroline but slaughtered pixie and frankie during the shows run.....caroline had years of previous dance training. HARDLY A SURPRISE SHE DELIVERED GOOD ROUTINES FROM THE VERY START THEN, WAS IT.
Yet she appealed to more voters despite all the attempts to make her previous training an issue at the last minute. Both Frankie & Pixies experience of regular dance training was far more recent.
And there we have it...the real reason for this thread. Nothing really to do with age, just trying to vindicate a caroline win. She was nowhere near as good as natalie last year for a start.....you think she couldn't have produced better ?
Plus, as has now been stated ad-infinitum, but ignored by yourself and all those media luvvies who hyped up caroline but slaughtered pixie and frankie during the shows run.....caroline had years of previous dance training. HARDLY A SURPRISE SHE DELIVERED GOOD ROUTINES FROM THE VERY START THEN, WAS IT.
1. If Caroline HAD been delivering good routines from the start you'd have a valid argument. But she hadn't..
The simple truth is that the relative lack of useful prior training compared with that of Pixie and Frankie was there for all to see in Caroline's Week 1 Cha Cha Cha. As Len pointed out - it lacked rhythm, and the hip-leg action was poor. And Caroline missed an underarm turn.
In her Quickstep she made such a serious footwork error that she would have ended up on the floor had Pasha not been supporting her weight.
Pixie and Frankie were able to deliver good routines from the start because their prior training was far more useful.
In retrospect one wonders why Frankie demonstrated so little improvement during the Competition, when she'd had so much more training than Caroline in her formative years -
[ After school hours, she attended a private dance school. After leaving school, Sandford went to a stage school in Romford and studied musical arts. ]
2. It's ridiculous to claim that my observation -
One could argue that in the Final 35-yr-old Caroline looked far younger than her age, whereas 25-yr-old Frankie looked far older.
- is nothing to do with age.
Because Caroline was clearly the best dancer in the Final it's not necessary to "vindicate" her win.
I'm only wondering WHY she succeeded, when so many female thirty-something best dancers before her had failed. The fact that she nailed three routines in the Final that few celebs before her of any age could have matched may have something to do with it.
Yet she appealed to more voters despite all the attempts to make her previous training an issue at the last minute. Both Frankie & Pixies experience of regular dance training was far more recent.
'AT the last minute'........thats the point, it only came out the day before the final! Not to mention her being trained up by kristina!
The whole thing leaves a nasty taste in the mouth to be honest.
At a risk of repeating past information, her previous training was known about right from the start. What is galling people is that the Anti BBC DM tried to make something out of it by slanting & timing it the way they did.
It does not matter. She won, get over it.
Just sad that people are still getting so huffy about it.
1. If Caroline HAD been delivering good routines from the start you'd have a valid argument. But she hadn't..
The simple truth is that the relative lack of useful prior training compared with that of Pixie and Frankie was there for all to see in Caroline's Week 1 Cha Cha Cha. As Len pointed out - it lacked rhythm, and the hip-leg action was poor. And Caroline missed an underarm turn.
I have to disagree with this. Pixie's Week 1 Jive had kicks and flicks lacking in sharpness and very little bounce action, not to mention the synchronicity issue in the middle of the routine (where she missed a kick). It was no better than Caroline's Cha Cha, and, despite being an avid Pixie supporter, was probably slightly weaker on the whole. Frankie, on the other hand, had a much simpler routine and dance style than Caroline, which is most likely the reason why she scored a higher mark - if you had given Frankie the same routine as Caroline, there's no way she could have done as good a job, especially not in the first week.
At a risk of repeating past information, her previous training was known about right from the start. What is galling people is that the Anti BBC DM tried to make something out of it by slanting & timing it the way they did.
It does not matter. She won, get over it.
Just sad that people are still getting so huffy about it.
Yep - Caroline's stage school training was disclosed on the BBC Strictly Come Dancing web site - and discussed in at least two threads in this forum, the first discussion occurring on the evening of her first routine.
Anybody who was interested would have found it almost immediately.
What wasn't disclosed on either site was the fact that Frankie had as much stage school training as Caroline - and, being only 25, had been trained far more recently than Caroline at 35.
This was in addition to Frankie's earlier after-school training at a private dance school - which one assumes occurred over a longer period than three years.
[ CPA College delivers a three year Level 6 Diploma in Professional Musical Theatre. The curriculum is focused on enabling students to develop their personal potential, allowing for growth and change to meet the current and future needs and trends of the ever evolving entertainment industry.
CPA studios faculty is of the highest calibre and tutors are recruited from the widest spectrum of the profession. All have in-depth training, experience and knowledge as specialists, tutors, performers, choreographers and directors. ]
The whole thing leaves a nasty taste in the mouth to be honest.
But as pointed out frequently it WAS known about right from the start no one set out to hide it, the fact that YOU did not know is completely irrelevant.
It was publically and widely known about and she still won and your nasty taste in the mouth appears to have been the majorities shrug of the shoulders.
IE really only a very few who seem determined to labour the point actually care about it at all.
Trying to make anyone care about it now seems a very pointless excercise. She won the series is over and done with. She won despite it being known.
At a risk of repeating past information, her previous training was known about right from the start. What is galling people is that the Anti BBC DM tried to make something out of it by slanting & timing it the way they did.
It does not matter. She won, get over it.
Just sad that people are still getting so huffy about it.
What is sad is that some keep stating that it was known from the start and it wasn't. I have spoken to many who watched and none of them knew about it until they were told after the show had finished. People need to accept that this happened instead of insinuating that others are liars.
I'm guessing a high number of viewers / voters are not so technically aware as to consider the finer intricacies of the dancing.
At least 20 individual people on DS over the first 15 pages of THE thread, plus however many more over the rest of it say they didn't know about the training / would like to have known sooner. No amount of "could of should ofs" will change that. No amount of technical discussion will change that. The numbers and comments speak for themselves, anything you read into is about you not them.
SCD is won on a mixture of ability and preference. If you're ignoring a large section of the voters because their reason and what they say influenced them is different to yours, then your not genuinely concerned with the answer to why anyone did or didn't win at all. Asking the question from a different perspective will only lead to speculation, not the reason.
What is sad is that some keep stating that it was known from the start and it wasn't. I have spoken to many who watched and none of them knew about it until they were told after the show had finished. People need to accept that this happened instead of insinuating that others are liars.
It strikes me as very odd that every other dancer with so called previous was picked up on immediately, yet Caroline was not? This seems very far fetched as even without viewing her blurb on the BBC site I knew she had done the wheelchair dancing. You yourself referred to her as a ringer way back, even if you did not read the thread you posted in. What made you think she was a ringer even back then?
Nothing will change, she will not be stripped of the title. My votes would not have been any different. No one else will win instead.
If the BBC over emphasise any previous training, contestants with some skill will not bother & the show will be the poorer for it.
What is sad is that some keep stating that it was known from the start and it wasn't. I have spoken to many who watched and none of them knew about it until they were told after the show had finished. People need to accept that this happened instead of insinuating that others are liars.
What of it? Why WOULD anybody have known about it beforehand unless they were sufficiently interested to research the prior training of the celebs?
But at least Caroline's prior training was disclosed on the BBC site and discussed extensively in this forum.
Are you as outraged as I am that Frankie's three years Musical Theatre training as well as her after-school training at a private dance school was kept secret?
Would she have had the public support necessary to even reach the Final had the viewers been able to discover just how much of an advantage she actually had?
I'm guessing a high number of viewers / voters are not so technically aware as to consider the finer intricacies of the dancing.
At least 20 individual people on DS over the first 15 pages of THE thread, plus however many more over the rest of it say they didn't know about the training / would like to have known sooner. No amount of "could of should ofs" will change that. No amount of technical discussion will change that. The numbers and comments speak for themselves, anything you read into is about you not them.
SCD is won on a mixture of ability and preference. If you're ignoring a large section of the voters because their reason and what they say influenced them is different to yours, then your not genuinely concerned with the answer to why anyone did or didn't win at all. Asking the question from a different perspective will only lead to speculation, not the reason.
Maybe we all missed the interview Caroline gave to Zoe on ITT when, in answer to Zoe's question "How excited were you that your three year full-time dance course helped you nail that Jive/Charleston/Salsa on Saturday?", Caroline replied ... Oh wait, it didn't happen...
Yep - Caroline's stage school training was disclosed on the BBC Strictly Come Dancing web site - and discussed in at least two threads in this forum, the first discussion occurring on the evening of her first routine.
Anybody who was interested would have found it almost immediately.
What wasn't disclosed on either site was the fact that Frankie had as much stage school training as Caroline - and, being only 25, had been trained far more recently than Caroline at 35.
This was in addition to Frankie's earlier after-school training at a private dance school - which one assumes occurred over a longer period than three years.
[ CPA College delivers a three year Level 6 Diploma in Professional Musical Theatre. The curriculum is focused on enabling students to develop their personal potential, allowing for growth and change to meet the current and future needs and trends of the ever evolving entertainment industry.
CPA studios faculty is of the highest calibre and tutors are recruited from the widest spectrum of the profession. All have in-depth training, experience and knowledge as specialists, tutors, performers, choreographers and directors. ]
Not sure Frankie did the Diploma, which is a College course, level 6 being equivalent to 2nd year University - she is listed as a School success only? The College successes are listed separately.
At a risk of repeating past information, her previous training was known about right from the start. What is galling people is that the Anti BBC DM tried to make something out of it by slanting & timing it the way they did.
It does not matter. She won, get over it.
Just sad that people are still getting so huffy about it.
You could have GUESSED SHE'D HAS SOME TRAINING FROM WEEK 1, but I and I suggest the vast majority of people didn't know about the extent until the DM article came out. Pixie on t'other hand was crucified by everybody during the run from ollie murs down to joe bloggs on here for only doing the same (if not less) training as caroline.
Not sure Frankie did the Diploma, which is a College course, level 6 being equivalent to 2nd year University - she is listed as a School success only? The College successes are listed separately.
What she definitely DIDN'T do was go full time to a dance school...she went part time, pranced around with s club juniors for a bit, and has anyone seen the saturdays do a dance routine?? Anyone remember how crap rochelle was on the xmas show last year?? More to the point, frankie and pixie ADMITTED to some training. They came clean while caroline literally sat back and let them take the' flak'.
Caroline meanwhile, diplomas apart, went to FULL TIME dance school for 3 years, was in a dance troupe till she was 20, 'tried out' for cats and les mis, and was recently trained up by kristina rihanoff for that other dance show she was in before scd came along.
One more thing........if its ok for caroline to have all this training, then woe betide any caroline 'followers' who whine and moan about anyone with the remotest dance training in SCD 2015 , just because they don't like/fancy them........we will be watching you!! ;-)
Not sure Frankie did the Diploma, which is a College course, level 6 being equivalent to 2nd year University - she is listed as a School success only? The College successes are listed separately.
You could be right.
However her Wiki entry discloses that she went there "after leaving school". And Jessie J - listed on the same page as Frankie - endorses the CPA on the main page -
- as does Frankie, who is also mentioned in a tweet below that.
But it's immaterial what she did there. I don't recall any of this Musical Theatre or private dance training being mentioned in this forum - and neither is it mentioned on the BBC site.
All that's relevant here is that it completely eviscerates the ridiculous argument that Caroline had an unfair advantage because viewers didn't know about her prior training.
I like to think that those here who went as far as to claim that Caroline had more training than Frankie would have the honesty to admit that they were wrong. But I'm not holding my breath
With respect, I don' t think it is immaterial precisely who did what if there is going to be a continued debate about precisely who did what, and moreover how clear it is or was.
What she definitely DIDN'T do was go full time to a dance school...she went part time, pranced around with s club juniors for a bit, and has anyone seen the saturdays do a dance routine?? Anyone remember how crap rochelle was on the xmas show last year?? More to the point, frankie and pixie ADMITTED to some training. They came clean while caroline literally sat back and let them take the' flak'.
Caroline meanwhile, diplomas apart, went to FULL TIME dance school for 3 years, was in a dance troupe till she was 20, 'tried out' for cats and les mis, and was recently trained up by kristina rihanoff for that other dance show she was in before scd came along.
One more thing........if its ok for caroline to have all this training, then woe betide any caroline 'followers' who whine and moan about anyone with the remotest dance training in SCD 2015 , just because they don't like/fancy them........we will be watching you!! ;-)
If the comparisons are to be made, and they are being, extent or duration is not relevant in isolation, level of study also matters.
I hope her win isn't a freak occurrence as I'd like to see women aged 30+ do well on the show, I also wouldn't be averse to Pasha winning the glitterball again
ANYONE can win, regardless of age, if they are the most popular with the voting audience. Nothing necessarily to do with dance ability.
Not necessarily unfortunately. Thanks to the dance off, even the person with the highest public vote can go if they are not liked by the judges or kept high on the leaderboard.
Comments
Must admit I like the way the 'jugs' were planted in front of the 'jugs'! ;-)
Rita Ora could learn a thing or two about that maybe....:)
And there we have it...the real reason for this thread. Nothing really to do with age, just trying to vindicate a caroline win. She was nowhere near as good as natalie last year for a start.....you think she couldn't have produced better ?
Plus, as has now been stated ad-infinitum, but ignored by yourself and all those media luvvies who hyped up caroline but slaughtered pixie and frankie during the shows run.....caroline had years of previous dance training. HARDLY A SURPRISE SHE DELIVERED GOOD ROUTINES FROM THE VERY START THEN, WAS IT.
I wrote that I was beginning to think that because she seems to know how to use the media in her favour.
I wonder if she had been watching Calendar Girls, perhaps there were not any cream buns available where she posed.
Yet she appealed to more voters despite all the attempts to make her previous training an issue at the last minute. Both Frankie & Pixies experience of regular dance training was far more recent.
1. If Caroline HAD been delivering good routines from the start you'd have a valid argument. But she hadn't..
The simple truth is that the relative lack of useful prior training compared with that of Pixie and Frankie was there for all to see in Caroline's Week 1 Cha Cha Cha. As Len pointed out - it lacked rhythm, and the hip-leg action was poor. And Caroline missed an underarm turn.
In her Quickstep she made such a serious footwork error that she would have ended up on the floor had Pasha not been supporting her weight.
Pixie and Frankie were able to deliver good routines from the start because their prior training was far more useful.
In retrospect one wonders why Frankie demonstrated so little improvement during the Competition, when she'd had so much more training than Caroline in her formative years -
[ After school hours, she attended a private dance school. After leaving school, Sandford went to a stage school in Romford and studied musical arts. ]
2. It's ridiculous to claim that my observation -
One could argue that in the Final 35-yr-old Caroline looked far younger than her age, whereas 25-yr-old Frankie looked far older.
- is nothing to do with age.
Because Caroline was clearly the best dancer in the Final it's not necessary to "vindicate" her win.
I'm only wondering WHY she succeeded, when so many female thirty-something best dancers before her had failed. The fact that she nailed three routines in the Final that few celebs before her of any age could have matched may have something to do with it.
'AT the last minute'........thats the point, it only came out the day before the final! Not to mention her being trained up by kristina!
The whole thing leaves a nasty taste in the mouth to be honest.
At a risk of repeating past information, her previous training was known about right from the start. What is galling people is that the Anti BBC DM tried to make something out of it by slanting & timing it the way they did.
It does not matter. She won, get over it.
Just sad that people are still getting so huffy about it.
I have to disagree with this. Pixie's Week 1 Jive had kicks and flicks lacking in sharpness and very little bounce action, not to mention the synchronicity issue in the middle of the routine (where she missed a kick). It was no better than Caroline's Cha Cha, and, despite being an avid Pixie supporter, was probably slightly weaker on the whole. Frankie, on the other hand, had a much simpler routine and dance style than Caroline, which is most likely the reason why she scored a higher mark - if you had given Frankie the same routine as Caroline, there's no way she could have done as good a job, especially not in the first week.
Yep - Caroline's stage school training was disclosed on the BBC Strictly Come Dancing web site - and discussed in at least two threads in this forum, the first discussion occurring on the evening of her first routine.
Anybody who was interested would have found it almost immediately.
What wasn't disclosed on either site was the fact that Frankie had as much stage school training as Caroline - and, being only 25, had been trained far more recently than Caroline at 35.
This was in addition to Frankie's earlier after-school training at a private dance school - which one assumes occurred over a longer period than three years.
Frankie fans - recognise a familiar name here?
http://www.colinsperformingarts.co.uk/page/?title=Music+Industry&pid=72
[ CPA College delivers a three year Level 6 Diploma in Professional Musical Theatre. The curriculum is focused on enabling students to develop their personal potential, allowing for growth and change to meet the current and future needs and trends of the ever evolving entertainment industry.
CPA studios faculty is of the highest calibre and tutors are recruited from the widest spectrum of the profession. All have in-depth training, experience and knowledge as specialists, tutors, performers, choreographers and directors. ]
But as pointed out frequently it WAS known about right from the start no one set out to hide it, the fact that YOU did not know is completely irrelevant.
It was publically and widely known about and she still won and your nasty taste in the mouth appears to have been the majorities shrug of the shoulders.
IE really only a very few who seem determined to labour the point actually care about it at all.
Trying to make anyone care about it now seems a very pointless excercise. She won the series is over and done with. She won despite it being known.
What is sad is that some keep stating that it was known from the start and it wasn't. I have spoken to many who watched and none of them knew about it until they were told after the show had finished. People need to accept that this happened instead of insinuating that others are liars.
At least 20 individual people on DS over the first 15 pages of THE thread, plus however many more over the rest of it say they didn't know about the training / would like to have known sooner. No amount of "could of should ofs" will change that. No amount of technical discussion will change that. The numbers and comments speak for themselves, anything you read into is about you not them.
SCD is won on a mixture of ability and preference. If you're ignoring a large section of the voters because their reason and what they say influenced them is different to yours, then your not genuinely concerned with the answer to why anyone did or didn't win at all. Asking the question from a different perspective will only lead to speculation, not the reason.
It strikes me as very odd that every other dancer with so called previous was picked up on immediately, yet Caroline was not? This seems very far fetched as even without viewing her blurb on the BBC site I knew she had done the wheelchair dancing. You yourself referred to her as a ringer way back, even if you did not read the thread you posted in. What made you think she was a ringer even back then?
Nothing will change, she will not be stripped of the title. My votes would not have been any different. No one else will win instead.
If the BBC over emphasise any previous training, contestants with some skill will not bother & the show will be the poorer for it.
What of it? Why WOULD anybody have known about it beforehand unless they were sufficiently interested to research the prior training of the celebs?
But at least Caroline's prior training was disclosed on the BBC site and discussed extensively in this forum.
Are you as outraged as I am that Frankie's three years Musical Theatre training as well as her after-school training at a private dance school was kept secret?
Would she have had the public support necessary to even reach the Final had the viewers been able to discover just how much of an advantage she actually had?
This leaves a nasty taste in the mouth
Maybe we all missed the interview Caroline gave to Zoe on ITT when, in answer to Zoe's question "How excited were you that your three year full-time dance course helped you nail that Jive/Charleston/Salsa on Saturday?", Caroline replied ... Oh wait, it didn't happen...
Not sure Frankie did the Diploma, which is a College course, level 6 being equivalent to 2nd year University - she is listed as a School success only? The College successes are listed separately.
You could have GUESSED SHE'D HAS SOME TRAINING FROM WEEK 1, but I and I suggest the vast majority of people didn't know about the extent until the DM article came out. Pixie on t'other hand was crucified by everybody during the run from ollie murs down to joe bloggs on here for only doing the same (if not less) training as caroline.
What she definitely DIDN'T do was go full time to a dance school...she went part time, pranced around with s club juniors for a bit, and has anyone seen the saturdays do a dance routine?? Anyone remember how crap rochelle was on the xmas show last year?? More to the point, frankie and pixie ADMITTED to some training. They came clean while caroline literally sat back and let them take the' flak'.
Caroline meanwhile, diplomas apart, went to FULL TIME dance school for 3 years, was in a dance troupe till she was 20, 'tried out' for cats and les mis, and was recently trained up by kristina rihanoff for that other dance show she was in before scd came along.
One more thing........if its ok for caroline to have all this training, then woe betide any caroline 'followers' who whine and moan about anyone with the remotest dance training in SCD 2015 , just because they don't like/fancy them........we will be watching you!! ;-)
You could be right.
However her Wiki entry discloses that she went there "after leaving school". And Jessie J - listed on the same page as Frankie - endorses the CPA on the main page -
http://www.colinsperformingarts.co.uk/page/?title=CPA+Studios&pid=1
- as does Frankie, who is also mentioned in a tweet below that.
But it's immaterial what she did there. I don't recall any of this Musical Theatre or private dance training being mentioned in this forum - and neither is it mentioned on the BBC site.
All that's relevant here is that it completely eviscerates the ridiculous argument that Caroline had an unfair advantage because viewers didn't know about her prior training.
I like to think that those here who went as far as to claim that Caroline had more training than Frankie would have the honesty to admit that they were wrong. But I'm not holding my breath
If the comparisons are to be made, and they are being, extent or duration is not relevant in isolation, level of study also matters.
Not necessarily unfortunately. Thanks to the dance off, even the person with the highest public vote can go if they are not liked by the judges or kept high on the leaderboard.