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Big family bust up!
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I'll try and keep this as short as I can.
My daughter in law had her birthday last week. It's become a sore point, her birthday, because members of the family haven't remembered it a couple of times and my son was very hurt by that. This year he went to some lengths to remind everyone, I think maybe for a couple of reasons, firstly to try and avoid disappointment for his wife and as a kind of test?
I have never forgotten it!
He was very upset on the day when he called round to collect cards and money for her (her request was for money) and was annoyed when my husband hadn't gotten the card days before. I said we hadn't YET got them but would get them and drop them round later, still on her birthday.
He wasn't happy and I stupidly teased him a bit about coming round to my house to sign her card. He said he didn't want to do it at home, as he wanted to surprise her and I said, ooh shouldn't you have done that days before, result explosion!
The cards were delivered the same day but a huge row has ensured.
I messaged my DIL to say I was sorry if her day had been spoiled by all this and that next year, separately from anyone else, I would ensure I did something special for her.
The fact is, I haven't done anything wrong but have been the target for all the frustration my son feels with other members of the family.
His wife isn't a likeable person, she tells me that herself and perhaps my son senses that other family members haven't warmed to her but everyone is always very polite and welcoming to her.
My son said some really nasty things to me, nothing new. He's always been very domineering and controlling and as a family we've always had a kind of mutual agreement to take it on the chin as any attempts to defend ourselves ends up with him, shouting, swearing and storming off.
This time I feel I have to have a little acknowledgement that some of his remarks weren't fair and until he can do that, he isn't welcome in my home.
It is breaking my heart, I'm already on antidepressants, and struggling to cope and now feel I've lost a son of over a birthday card.
I don't want the rest of my families relationships to be affected and have told my husband, while I appreciate his support, not to let it affect the relationship between him and our son.
I am worried my son will never speak to me again but if I let things pass as they have before without it being addressed, he will continue to treat me unfairly.
Advice please if you have any.
My daughter in law had her birthday last week. It's become a sore point, her birthday, because members of the family haven't remembered it a couple of times and my son was very hurt by that. This year he went to some lengths to remind everyone, I think maybe for a couple of reasons, firstly to try and avoid disappointment for his wife and as a kind of test?
I have never forgotten it!
He was very upset on the day when he called round to collect cards and money for her (her request was for money) and was annoyed when my husband hadn't gotten the card days before. I said we hadn't YET got them but would get them and drop them round later, still on her birthday.
He wasn't happy and I stupidly teased him a bit about coming round to my house to sign her card. He said he didn't want to do it at home, as he wanted to surprise her and I said, ooh shouldn't you have done that days before, result explosion!
The cards were delivered the same day but a huge row has ensured.
I messaged my DIL to say I was sorry if her day had been spoiled by all this and that next year, separately from anyone else, I would ensure I did something special for her.
The fact is, I haven't done anything wrong but have been the target for all the frustration my son feels with other members of the family.
His wife isn't a likeable person, she tells me that herself and perhaps my son senses that other family members haven't warmed to her but everyone is always very polite and welcoming to her.
My son said some really nasty things to me, nothing new. He's always been very domineering and controlling and as a family we've always had a kind of mutual agreement to take it on the chin as any attempts to defend ourselves ends up with him, shouting, swearing and storming off.
This time I feel I have to have a little acknowledgement that some of his remarks weren't fair and until he can do that, he isn't welcome in my home.
It is breaking my heart, I'm already on antidepressants, and struggling to cope and now feel I've lost a son of over a birthday card.
I don't want the rest of my families relationships to be affected and have told my husband, while I appreciate his support, not to let it affect the relationship between him and our son.
I am worried my son will never speak to me again but if I let things pass as they have before without it being addressed, he will continue to treat me unfairly.
Advice please if you have any.
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Comments
Sorry - can't offer constructive advice, but adults squabbling over a birthday? Blimey...
For what it's worth I think your son is overreacting and I wouldn't be the one apologising u would be expecting him to come groveling to me. Totally ott and ridiculous behaviour and someone needs to tell him that.
Agree with this - you have nothing to apologise for - it's up to you if you want to give your DIL anything or not, your son shouldn't expect you to do so. I wouldn't be apologising - just wait until he needs something from you - he'll soon come round!
Usually to do with members disapproving of others in general.
First, the teaser/s ( bloozy and husband ) wants an apology,-- expecting to much as both caused a reaction.
It's a bit like the play ground bully who gets a black eye and then goes crying.
The son should have no expectations on others sending birthday cards or money to his wife.
While I get where he is coming from, receipt of birthday cards is a matter of choice from others not ask.
But your son is standing up for the woman he loves and perhaps taking the lack of birthday cards and gifts as a criticism as to his choice of mate.
I think Boozy hurt her son, I also think Boozy talking to son's wife was a good thing, a first step, a good step.
I think while son's wife has said she is not easy to like, it appears son is not the most affable person either.
But in this instance banning family members from visiting is slamming windows and doors shut and leaves no room for getting things back on track.
To a great degree parents of much older kids just have to bite their tongues regardless of the right or reason/s to do otherwise.
Boozy and husband teased and received a black eye, a verbal.
Son needs to grow up, love his wife but not expect others to,---but I get his pissed offtness.
Boozy and husband should say sorry again, then give it a month or so, invite son and wife over for a Sunday roast and if at first a no go, try again with no expectations of an apology for things said by son, not in this instance.
Let it go.
Actually 'both' of us didn't cause a reaction, I did. And I did because I thought perhaps he didn't realise there was a little hypocrisy in getting in a tiss about a b'day not having been bought days before the day as he wanted and his writing a card out on the day instead of days before as seemed to be his expectation.
My name is bLoozy not boozy.
My son threw things across the living room, not for the first time and this is one of the reasons that I feel it's time to stop pretending his behaviour is often unacceptable.
He's in his 30 and frequently dictates to the rest of the family. Mostly we all try to please him but it isn't nice to be constantly judged by someone you love.
I would apologise in a heartbeat, can do, will do for there hurt feelings but should I really keep on being dismissed?
He and his wife are grandiose and self important, freely judge others, are often rude and I deal with that by being cordial and civil. I love my son but I am quite ill and don't have the energy to keep on taking hit after hit.
I hoped someone might be able to offer a suggestion on how to resolve this with condoning his and his wifes behaviour.
Thank you so much for the advise from you all, some of it very reassuring and helpful, some not.
My late husband never remembered my birthday and I had to start reminding him about two weeks before the day, sometimes he would buy me a card when we were out shopping and say...."I have got your card".
I miss him every minute of every day, and if I could have him back I would say to him "don't bother about any more stupid cards"
Maybe when the dust dies down you could say to your son that really a card doesn't matter, people matter, he really should try and get things in perspective.
I'm terrible with presents - but wouldn't even consider buying a birthday present for in-laws. I don't even know when in-laws birthdays are
If someones ill - its worth making an effort for obvious reasons.
The advice I got from other posters was NOT to put up with any more foot-stamping. If you feel you have been treated unfairly and unkindly, do not apologise for the sake of an easy life. By letting this go, you are just sending out the message that it is acceptable to carry on behaving badly. (Throwing stuff?! He does sound like my sister!)
My sister wasn't a bit repentant the day after her outburst, so I left it a few days so the dust could settle. Then I wrote her a letter saying that although she is my sister and I want us to be friends, I couldn't and wouldn't put up with that behaviour again. I said something like 'if this happens I feel i have no choice but to walk away', which can either mean literally walking away (as in slamming the door and going home to cool off) or walking away from the relationship, as in no longer bothering with her. I think she interpreted it as the former, but I meant it as the latter. If she ever throws her toys out of the pram again, I can say that she had a final warning from me, and I'm done with her unacceptable behaviour.
I didn't get hung up on getting an apology, because she's said sorry many times before. This time I emphasised that her behaviour towards me had to change, or else 'sorry' wouldn't mean anything.
She phoned me after reading the letter. I'd worded it carefully, so while I was clear that I was unhappy with her behaviour, it suggested that we could move forward together and start again. That stopped her from being defensive, stopped us re-hashing the argument and gave us a foundation on which to begin again.
That was about eight months ago. Since then she's had one 'outburst' (in the middle of the Next sale!) but she walked out of the store and stomped off home before it became a full-blown row.
Something else to consider... my sister also admitted that she never treated anyone else as badly as she treated me. I think that's because we grew up together. As a child she was pretty horrible to me (although I wasn't always pleasant back!) and while I have learnt to resolve conflict, she just reverts to a childlike state of name-calling and foot-stamping. I'm convinced that this behaviour was learnt in childhood and enabled by my parents and grandparents. She generally has a decent relationship with people she met as an adult, but her old schoolfriends and myself used to get a hard time from her, because our relationship was formed at an age where she was really emotionally immature. (She now has virtually no contact with any of her school/college friends, due to all the arguments.)
What was your son's relationship like with you in his youth? If his current behaviour is an extension of how he was as a child / teenager, perhaps by 'taking it on the chin' you've enabled him to carry on acting like a brat; and what he needs is to hear you say 'Okay, storm off. I'm fed up with your behaviour and I'm not taking it any more.' Perhaps it will startle him into changing his ways. I think you've realised yourself that you can't carry on allowing him to be like this - so be clear with him that both of you are going to have to change. He has to stop acting like an angry child, and you have to stop allowing him to do so. If he carries on, he risks seeing a lot less of his parents.
Thank you so much, you can't know how much your advice means to me. x
Wonderful advice, thank you. I feel it's time, not just for my sake but for the others in my family to say just what you've said. I adore him and love his wife but unfortunately she has pretty low self esteem and uses games and manipulation to manage relationships. I have worked so hard to try and support and encourage her but it never 'grows' our relationship. I'm split between sympathy and frustration with her.
Finally her games have produced a result and I imagine she's feeling a bit pissed with power. I've asked may I please visit to see my grandson and her reply is that I must meet her in a café. She's an emotional coward and perhaps is worried that I might raise what's going on with her, which I won't. It wouldn't be helpful and she is afraid of confrontation.
I told her I think it a bit odd but ok, to which her reply via text is that it's not odd but in the 8 years she's been in my life, this is the first time I have been invited to meet her for coffee.
I have asked my other daughter in law if she will come as she gets on ok with her and hopefully it will make things less awkward. I haven't discussed with my other daughter in law what's going on as it might make her feel awkward too.
What do you think?
Firstly, I would separate the two problems and try to deal with them separately.
The first problem is that your son treats you like dirt. Yes he will side with his wife, but that's no excuse to yell or throw things. The conflict may have arose because of his wife's birthday card, but it is his behaviour and not her birthday that is causing you upset. Don't blame her 'games' for your son's behaviour - she may influence him, but she doesn't control him. He was the one who started the argument.
With your son, I would personally leave him to cool down for a few days, then write a letter explaining how you feel, and how you want to move forward. It's up to you to work out where to draw the line. Personally I would treat this as a final warning - any more tantarums about anything and you won't be able to have him in your home, upsetting you and the other family members. That's my approach, you may do things differently - but mean what you say and stick to your guns.
You have a complicated relationship with your DIL too. My advice would be to back off and try to be less supportive - not all relationships are destined to grow into friendships. She may be worried about creating a scene or about things being too awkward / intense between you; so I would personally avoid any one-to-one meetings for now, and just invite her and your husband to family occasions for a while. Perhaps have a Sunday lunch or a birthday tea or something, where she will be one of the crowd and can talk to you and realise that things are okay between you. I wouldn't discuss it too much with other family members as she may feel you are 'ganging up' on her.
The way forward for me, would be a shared love of your grandchild. If you do get to talk to her (or write her a letter) I would use it as a chance to move forward - let's start again and be cordial and forget the bad feeling, for his sake. I said the same to my sister: we're both adults now, so for our children's sake, let's start behaving like adults!
Personally I wouldn't get into a text discussion. It's hard to 'read' a person through a text - I much prefer a phone call myself. Of a letter, because you can say much more and are less likely to be misinterpreted.
I would also not rush in to try and 'fix' things. My very wise Nan always said 'least said, soonest mended'. And she's right. Take a step back, a deep breath and try not to let this bother you too much.
I must admit I feel a smidge of sympathy for her, because I have slight tendencies (that I try to control) to let my low self-esteem let me become demanding.
If it's any help it's not a nice way to feel at all - to feel desperate for the love and attention you feel you aren't getting, and feel selfish and guilty at the same time. If dil feels this way and your son knows it it could go some way to explaining his overreaction (and perhaps guilt for not doing enough to make her happy himself).
I'm not trying to excuse their behaviour, but I thought you might like to hear a different perspective. After all you say that you didn't do anything wrong, and I'm just trying to show what they might think you've done wrong.
However, not getting something that other family members get is equally hurtful. If you buy cards and presents for your other children, (assuming there are others) and for your son, then not doing anything for his wife would be hurtful to him. She is his choice as wife, she is part of the family, and it is no doubt very upsetting for him, if her birthday arrives, and no bugger remembers it. No doubt she feels it, and he feels it as a result.
You should make sure you remember her birthday, shouldn't you, really. He shouldn't have to nag you about it.
Get a card before the day, put an M&S voucher in it, or a cheque, and give it to your son for her.
And be careful. If you force him to choose. he will be more likely to choose his wife and child, rather than his parents. I think.
He probably shouts because it is his way of expressing his problems . He no doubt has a difficult situation at home, because his wife is upset, and you aren't exactly pouring oil on troubled waters.
And I completely disagree about writing. Talking is what is needed. Get it fixed.
Your son has been allowed behave badly and so he continues . Put down your foot and tell him No more .
I would wait until this has blown over and he is in good form ( is he sometimes ? ! ) . Tell him you wish to speak to him and then tell him that NO MORE will you tolerate his behaviour , NO MORE will you allow him speak to you in your home in a rude fashion and that next time he does so you will be asking him to leave
He will huff and puff but stand your ground and be firm and strong
Yoy are correct when you mention your reaction, snide remarks or was that teasing, grandiose and self important.
Pointing out a typo having asked for advise is being just what?
I can't help wonder now where your son gets it from?
Nonetheless don't be treated like dirt.
As I wrote, your son and his wife have no to reason to expect but a reasonable expectation not to be forgotten.
It would appear you son likes to lord it around the place and in doing so causes offence, this is unacceptable and absolutely both you and your husband should stand your ground, love him or otherwise.
But your expectation of an apology when you admit to teasing is a little high handed.
You say both yours was the reaction but clearly that's not true, he reacted also by saying things which your husband and you found offensive and you have slammed doors and windows by banning contact.
There is only so much parents should accept/take from unruly offspring but waiting for an apology,---you may wait a long time.
That may suit you, ( but I think not ), and putting your foot down,---well it's better late then never but don't expect much progress while he is not welcome.
Rude, bad, unpleasant talk towards your husband and you is a no go as long as it is not asked for.
I agree with others, texting is no good, a letter may be better as is at some time an invite to Sunday lunch.
But your house, your rules, you are not dirt and your son is old enough to know that and his bad behaviour is his alone.
Further typos you will have to get over.
Thank you so much. You have given me a picture that fills in gaps and new perspective and I am going to use this. I have arranged to see my grandson, I had organised a family event for the end of jan so will leave things until then and hope it will provide an opportunity to show there's no hard feelings.
Thank you, this was helpful to have a take on how she might feel about things and I think you may be right, I can imagine my son may well feel guilty about not doing enough to make her feel happy. He's incredibly busy, they have a young child and I think she is taking the lion share of child care. She may also feel a bit excluded because he has many demands away from his family.
It's clear to me that the birthday' issue has become a kind of metaphor for the complex issues running like a strong current beneath the surface.
Do you think she may have wanted to meet you for coffee and open up a bit to you? If your son behaves like he does with you, there's a good chance he does the same to her. If she's living with him, she will feel the effects more than anyone else.
I say this because I know someone with terrible self-esteem issues, who can be quite manipulative, but her husband behaves like a spoilt child. Everything is her fault. He shouts to the point of scaring her, storms off, and twists everything round so that he is the victim. It's no wonder her mental state, and sense of self, is shot to peices.
Unless you knew what was going on, you'd assume they were the happiest couple in the world.
It struck me that you mentioned taking it on the chin, to avoid further eruptions. She has said she does exactly the same with her husband.