Why didn't the government start winding down the tobacco industry years ago, so people in the trade could leave retrain, grow other crops etc.
There must be other things that could be done to make up for the loss of revenue from tobacco ?
Now they don't want to clamp down on smoking, because they get so much in tax, yet the NHS is buckling under the weight of paying for smoking related diseases.
A halt has to be called somewhere!
Why didn't the government start winding down the tobacco industry years ago, so people in the trade could leave retrain, grow other crops etc.
There must be other things that could be done to make up for the loss of revenue from tobacco ?
Now they don't want to clamp down on smoking, because they get so much in tax, yet the NHS is buckling under the weight of paying for smoking related diseases.
A halt has to be called somewhere!
Yes you would think so but incredibly enough we actually (through the EU) do the opposite by subsidising European Tobacco farmers.
Yea honestly I have the info saved somewhere I think. Here we go;
Umm; Problem (or one of them) is that almost no one has a history of just vaping. Something near 100% of vapers are ex-smokers and the ill affects of smoking can stay with you for years; a life time perhaps. There would be no conclusive way of knowing if an illness was the result of current vaping or past smoking.
The other problem in the context of your suggestion is that mortality rates for prime users (vapers or smokers) tell us nothing about possible secondary affects.
There is however currently no evidence that vaping causes any serious harm to vapers themselves let alone via 'secondary vaping'. I see no problem with places choosing to ban it and certainly I don't think vaping is appropriate in most enclosed public places.
It would be reasonable for pubs/cafes etc to continue to have the option of allowing vaping though I think. Most appear to have banned them anyway; just be nice to have a few vape friendly places and I am sure that would help some more folk give up the killer smokes. I don't think legislation is needed just some common sense; hopefully.
Not sure I agree. Smokers are accepting of not smoking in such places, not their preference perhaps but they accept it. They dont smoke because they cant vape in those places.
As you rightly say, there is currently little evidence to know its effects, and clouded with the smoking habit it will be son time coming. Do we really want to make the same mistakes we made with smoking all those years ago and normalise/ encourage it when it may be harmful?
All I will say is that I tried e-cigs back end of last year, and found them incredibly difficult to inhale. The vapour felt very aggressive and made me hack and cough far more than any Marlborough Light. Left my lungs feeling like they'd been immersed in acid.
I'm back to the proper cigs, but just much less of them.
That is a shame. I am sure I could send you some cooler lower power juice to try. Will mix you a sample or two to order if you like. no charge.
Not sure I agree. Smokers are accepting of not smoking in such places, not their preference perhaps but they accept it. They dont smoke because they cant vape in those places.
As you rightly say, there is currently little evidence to know its effects, and clouded with the smoking habit it will be son time coming. Do we really want to make the same mistakes we made with smoking all those years ago and normalise/ encourage it when it may be harmful?
I certainly do want to encourage it as an alternative to smoking. Surely you stopped smoking yourself by using e-cigs did you not? Do you want to make the mistake of not helping others as you where helped?
By the way still waiting for your evidence that I have used mis-information to promote vaping. Or a retraction.
All I will say is that I tried e-cigs back end of last year, and found them incredibly difficult to inhale. The vapour felt very aggressive and made me hack and cough far more than any Marlborough Light. Left my lungs feeling like they'd been immersed in acid.
I'm back to the proper cigs, but just much less of them.
Good on you for trying and cutting down. Everyone I know including me have had to "get used" to it, which tells me your body is rejecting it just as it does when you first smoke. Is it worth the effort, to a smoker perhaps.
Why didn't the government start winding down the tobacco industry years ago, so people in the trade could leave retrain, grow other crops etc.
There must be other things that could be done to make up for the loss of revenue from tobacco ?
Now they don't want to clamp down on smoking, because they get so much in tax, yet the NHS is buckling under the weight of paying for smoking related diseases.
A halt has to be called somewhere!
Shame they didn't ban it years ago, the country would be over it but smokers at that time would've suffered. Can you imagine?
But now, despite the tax revenue they do seem to be prioritising health.
That is a shame. I am sure I could send you some cooler lower power juice to try. Will mix you a sample or two to order if you like. no charge.
where do you get the ingredients from to make it & how do you know how much nicotine you are putting in? How much does it work out for say, 10 ml? I pay about £4 for 10ml bottles just now.
where do you get the ingredients from to make it & how do you know how much nicotine you are putting in? How much does it work out for say, 10 ml? I pay about £4 for 10ml bottles just now.
Sorry never worked out cost but must be a lot less than that. The PG & VG which is the main ingredients by bulk cost pennies per ml. I get the VG from Boots.
Vaping in public places such as cafes isn't something we should hope for then.
Nothing wrong with one or two specialist ones here and there if there is demand. probably not going to happen much anyway. Not worth arguing about and certainly not worth even more legislation.
I know of no pub or cafe where I can vape in any case apart from the place in shoreditch which is really a vape shop anyway.
Edit Oh forgot have you found that mis-information I have been handing out yet?
Sorry never worked out cost but must be a lot less than that. The PG & VG which is the main ingredients by bulk cost pennies per ml. I get the VG from Boots.
As you rightly say, there is currently little evidence to know its effects, and clouded with the smoking habit it will be son time coming. Do we really want to make the same mistakes we made with smoking all those years ago and normalise/ encourage it when it may be harmful?
When smoking first catch on tests for carcinogens and in fact what carcinogens were or that they caused cancer were not know at all.
Now we know and since learning that, they have been able to state categorically that smoking is bad for you.
E-cigs when used correctly and using a reputable liquid have been tested and found not to produce carcinogens,
You seem to relish playing devils advocate to the point of being an obvious wind-up merchant and play around with inventing grey scaremongering areas where there aren't any. 'We do know, so they could' we do know that when used correctly they don't produce carcinogens and ALL the other chemicals are found in other products such as tomatoes and toothpaste. But of course you know of this and are just playing games.
Personally I think you are an anti hiding and pretending to be basically for them but being subversive to get your little scaremongering agenda across.
When a new food product comes onto the market it is tested for chemicals that may harm us and if none are found then it can go on the market. But I don't see you popping up and saying 'Oh but this is a new food and so we don't know what the long term effects are like we didn't with smoking'. You just love to mix things with other things that are not connected in your game playing.
The fact that you only apply this concern to e-cigs and you are notorious on every single e-cig thread has exposed your gameplan.
Not sure I agree. Smokers are accepting of not smoking in such places, not their preference perhaps but they accept it. They dont smoke because they cant vape in those places.
As you rightly say, there is currently little evidence to know its effects, and clouded with the smoking habit it will be son time coming. Do we really want to make the same mistakes we made with smoking all those years ago and normalise/ encourage it when it may be harmful?
What I said (or confirmed) was that there was no evidence based on mortality rates and that currently there is no evidence that vaping causes any serious harm to vapers themselves let alone via 'secondary vaping'.
What I said (or confirmed) was that there was no evidence based on mortality rates and that currently there is no evidence that vaping causes any serious harm to vapers themselves let alone via 'secondary vaping'.
In the absence of proof as healthy or unhealthy, do you think the risk is worth taking rather than compromising?
When smoking first catch on tests for carcinogens and in fact what carcinogens were or that they caused cancer were not know at all.
Now we know and since learning that, they have been able to state categorically that smoking is bad for you.
E-cigs when used correctly and using a reputable liquid have been tested and found not to produce carcinogens,
You seem to relish playing devils advocate to the point of being an obvious wind-up merchant and play around with inventing grey scaremongering areas where there aren't any. 'We do know, so they could' we do know that when used correctly they don't produce carcinogens and ALL the other chemicals are found in other products such as tomatoes and toothpaste. But of course you know of this and are just playing games.
Personally I think you are an anti hiding and pretending to be basically for them but being subversive to get your little scaremongering agenda across.
When a new food product comes onto the market it is tested for chemicals that may harm us and if none are found then it can go on the market. But I don't see you popping up and saying 'Oh but this is a new food and so we don't know what the long term effects are like we didn't with smoking'. You just love to mix things with other things that are not connected in your game playing.
The fact that you only apply this concern to e-cigs and you are notorious on every single e-cig thread has exposed your gameplan.
Id add to your first point by saying that after testing first started, smoking became even less healthy by all the additional toxins added by the manufacturers. Surely, learning from the past and not making the same mistake with Vaping a responsible approach.
Your other points are largely irrelevant, or your personal opinion. My posts contradict that opinion but hey ho.
I'm a pro vapour as a means of stopping smoking. I no longer allow a selfish addiction to ignore logic, or as a reason to attack posters, misquote, make unfounded claims and conspiracy theories. Tactics of someone with nothing better to offer. Regardless of how that me effect me personally, I am happy to remain open minded and consider what the future may hold if we allow it to become the smoking of the future. If that's what you refer to as notoriety then I'm ok with it. Rather that than an addict who is too concerned with their own needs to care about others.
Id add to your first point by saying that after testing first started, smoking became even less healthy by all the additional toxins added by the manufacturers. Surely, learning from the past and not making the same mistake with Vaping a responsible approach.
Your other points are largely irrelevant, or your personal opinion. My posts contradict that opinion but hey ho.
I'm a pro vapour as a means of stopping smoking. I no longer allow a selfish addiction to ignore logic, or as a reason to attack posters, misquote, make unfounded claims and conspiracy theories. Tactics of someone with nothing better to offer. Regardless of how that me effect me personally, I am happy to remain open minded and consider what the future may hold if we allow it to become the smoking of the future. If that's what you refer to as notoriety then I'm ok with it. Rather that than an addict who couldn't care less about others.
I for one am at a loss about what you want. You advocate some kind of compromise. Could you define what you mean by that?
BTW I am still waiting for you to point out where I have used mis-information. 3rd or 4th time of asking. Any chance of the courtesy of either substantiating your accusation or retracting it?
If the figures need to be massaged a bit to stop this nonsense, so be it.
I've come across a fair few attitudes on here that have differed from mine. Some are just disagreement, some are offensive, some are crazy. But that's by far the most dangerous.
Comments
There must be other things that could be done to make up for the loss of revenue from tobacco ?
Now they don't want to clamp down on smoking, because they get so much in tax, yet the NHS is buckling under the weight of paying for smoking related diseases.
A halt has to be called somewhere!
Yes you would think so but incredibly enough we actually (through the EU) do the opposite by subsidising European Tobacco farmers.
Yea honestly I have the info saved somewhere I think. Here we go;
http://www.epha.org/spip.php?article6210
http://www.epha.org/spip.php?article6218
Not sure I agree. Smokers are accepting of not smoking in such places, not their preference perhaps but they accept it. They dont smoke because they cant vape in those places.
As you rightly say, there is currently little evidence to know its effects, and clouded with the smoking habit it will be son time coming. Do we really want to make the same mistakes we made with smoking all those years ago and normalise/ encourage it when it may be harmful?
That is a shame. I am sure I could send you some cooler lower power juice to try. Will mix you a sample or two to order if you like. no charge.
I certainly do want to encourage it as an alternative to smoking. Surely you stopped smoking yourself by using e-cigs did you not? Do you want to make the mistake of not helping others as you where helped?
By the way still waiting for your evidence that I have used mis-information to promote vaping. Or a retraction.
Good on you for trying and cutting down. Everyone I know including me have had to "get used" to it, which tells me your body is rejecting it just as it does when you first smoke. Is it worth the effort, to a smoker perhaps.
Shame they didn't ban it years ago, the country would be over it but smokers at that time would've suffered. Can you imagine?
But now, despite the tax revenue they do seem to be prioritising health.
Normalising it for those who dont need it, including children is not encouraging people to stop smoking but may be encouraging to start vaping.
where do you get the ingredients from to make it & how do you know how much nicotine you are putting in? How much does it work out for say, 10 ml? I pay about £4 for 10ml bottles just now.
I agree.
Thankyou.
Vaping in public places such as cafes isn't something we should hope for then.
Sorry never worked out cost but must be a lot less than that. The PG & VG which is the main ingredients by bulk cost pennies per ml. I get the VG from Boots.
http://www.boots.com/en/Value-Health-Glycerin-B-P-200ml_852418/
Big bottles of 72mg nic and PG from http://everythingliquid.co.uk/
Concentrate nic free flavours from Cloud9, TJuice; Flavourart and others.
Have a look at UKVapers esp the mixing forum
http://ukvapers.org/Thread-Buying-diy-supplies
Good Luck
Edit I use this simple mixing calculator there are better ones
http://www.todmuller.com/ejuice/ejuice.php
Nothing wrong with one or two specialist ones here and there if there is demand. probably not going to happen much anyway. Not worth arguing about and certainly not worth even more legislation.
I know of no pub or cafe where I can vape in any case apart from the place in shoreditch which is really a vape shop anyway.
Edit Oh forgot have you found that mis-information I have been handing out yet?
many thanks for that, i'm going to look into that when my new toy arrives from amazon.
edit
you can even buy starter kits that help you do it & you're right, it's a LOT cheaper making your own. this is becoming more interesting every day!
http://vapemestoopid.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/formaldehyde-Twitter-Search.png
And see;
The rest of the story, coordinated and organized?
At
http://vapemestoopid.co.uk/click-bait-news-sites-with-their-formaldelies-stories-heres-what-they-arent-telling-you/
When smoking first catch on tests for carcinogens and in fact what carcinogens were or that they caused cancer were not know at all.
Now we know and since learning that, they have been able to state categorically that smoking is bad for you.
E-cigs when used correctly and using a reputable liquid have been tested and found not to produce carcinogens,
You seem to relish playing devils advocate to the point of being an obvious wind-up merchant and play around with inventing grey scaremongering areas where there aren't any. 'We do know, so they could' we do know that when used correctly they don't produce carcinogens and ALL the other chemicals are found in other products such as tomatoes and toothpaste. But of course you know of this and are just playing games.
Personally I think you are an anti hiding and pretending to be basically for them but being subversive to get your little scaremongering agenda across.
When a new food product comes onto the market it is tested for chemicals that may harm us and if none are found then it can go on the market. But I don't see you popping up and saying 'Oh but this is a new food and so we don't know what the long term effects are like we didn't with smoking'. You just love to mix things with other things that are not connected in your game playing.
The fact that you only apply this concern to e-cigs and you are notorious on every single e-cig thread has exposed your gameplan.
What I said (or confirmed) was that there was no evidence based on mortality rates and that currently there is no evidence that vaping causes any serious harm to vapers themselves let alone via 'secondary vaping'.
Why ask me? You are a vaper so presumably you think it is worth it.
Is this is a case of do as I say not do as I do.
Id add to your first point by saying that after testing first started, smoking became even less healthy by all the additional toxins added by the manufacturers. Surely, learning from the past and not making the same mistake with Vaping a responsible approach.
Your other points are largely irrelevant, or your personal opinion. My posts contradict that opinion but hey ho.
I'm a pro vapour as a means of stopping smoking. I no longer allow a selfish addiction to ignore logic, or as a reason to attack posters, misquote, make unfounded claims and conspiracy theories. Tactics of someone with nothing better to offer. Regardless of how that me effect me personally, I am happy to remain open minded and consider what the future may hold if we allow it to become the smoking of the future. If that's what you refer to as notoriety then I'm ok with it. Rather that than an addict who is too concerned with their own needs to care about others.
What is it you think I say you or anyone should do?
I for one am at a loss about what you want. You advocate some kind of compromise. Could you define what you mean by that?
BTW I am still waiting for you to point out where I have used mis-information. 3rd or 4th time of asking. Any chance of the courtesy of either substantiating your accusation or retracting it?
I've come across a fair few attitudes on here that have differed from mine. Some are just disagreement, some are offensive, some are crazy. But that's by far the most dangerous.
Your posts seem to be anti vaping yet you do it yourself, it's all rather bizarre.