I don't doubt them but I would want to know was it drinking Jim or sober Jim the two are very different I met him in both states and the man he is when he is drinking is not nice.
How often does he drink though?
People can blame drink for their behaviours and say 'that's not the real me' - if they drink everyday though - surely it is - isn't it?
Lenny Henry has spoken interestingly about starting off in the comedy industry and why he made such excruciatingly patronising jokes about black people. Poor, uneducated and naive, he literally knew no black people in the field of comedy ('variety'); the Black and White Minstrel show was the only show he knew that would give him a chance. He has described a moment of revelation when he realized that he had enough of a name now to be accepted in general comedy (straight theatre now) rather than the Token Black Person. I admire his trajectory: he has become a very well respected actor and is now doing a PhD.
He might have mellowed. But from a lot of other comments I have seen along the lines of the mumsnet ones, I think he has a lot of bridges to build. There is something a bit depressing about the way people like JD can spend years and years roaring round being rude, obnoxious, sleazy and aggressive, and people just let them get away with it because they are stars. (Not just him, by a long chalk). I can imagine that he went for decades with barely anyone every crossing him, which could turn a lot of people into monsters. Maybe the combination of sobriety and Yewtree has calmed and chastened him, and made him more aware of other peoples' feelings.
Not just well known people but all people I like to give people a second chance I think people can change and we have to allow them to do so. If we don't then woe betide anyone making a mistake it will follow you to the grave !
People can blame drink for their behaviours and say 'that's not the real me' - if they drink everyday though - surely it is - isn't it?
I believe when I first met him he was an alcoholic he was well away by 11am and very bad tempered with it. I don't doubt alcohol brings out the real person sometimes but when a person is addicted you see an addict not some one gently sozzled shoing their real side.
Not just well known people but all people I like to give people a second chance I think people can change and we have to allow them to do so. If we don't then woe betide anyone making a mistake it will follow you to the grave !
I believe when I first met him he was an alcoholic he was well away by 11am and very bad tempered with it. I don't doubt alcohol brings out the real person sometimes but when a person is addicted you see an addict not some one gently sozzled shoing their real side.
Yes but he still drinks. He may have cut down but - an alcoholic is an alcoholic.
You'll notice Keith didn't touch a drop - Jim admits he gets nasty with drink (he claims if it's too much) he still drunk in the house though if I remember - he started off with water but it didn't last long.
Yes but he still drinks. He may have cut down but - an alcoholic is an alcoholic.
You'll notice Keith didn't touch a drop - Jim admits he gets nasty with drink (he claims if it's too much) he still drunk in the house though if I remember - he started off with water but it didn't last long.
Yes I agree, but in his case and a few others they seem to be able to drink a little more socially after they stop getting so drunk. I have no idea what best practise is or why some seem to be able to and others not. Just glad I never started drinking myself so never had the addiction to it.
Yes I agree, but in his case and a few others they seem to be able to drink a little more socially after they stop getting so drunk. I have no idea what best practise is or why some seem to be able to and others not. Just glad I never started drinking myself so never had the addiction to it.
From personal experience I can't agree. I admit I could be wrong but - I do think Jim's guard came down when he'd had a drink and we saw flashes of what he really is. I suspect he drinks as much as he ever did but managed to keep a bit of a lid on it in the house. As I say - I can only speak from personal experience - it might be different for others.
I said I was keeping out of this didn't I? I can't help myself
From personal experience I can't agree. I admit I could be wrong but - I do think Jim's guard came down when he'd had a drink and we saw flashes of what he really is. I suspect he drinks as much as he ever did but managed to keep a bit of a lid on it in the house. As I say - I can only speak from personal experience - it might be different for others.
I said I was keeping out of this didn't I? I can't help myself
Lol it's hard not too I find if people are discussing nicely as long as people respect each other I always find it interesting.
I was speaking from brief meeting with him 30 years apart, the nasty young man was replaced by quite a gentleman I like to think he changed, I am sure alcohol has damaged him though.
Not just well known people but all people I like to give people a second chance I think people can change and we have to allow them to do so. If we don't then woe betide anyone making a mistake it will follow you to the grave !
I believe when I first met him he was an alcoholic he was well away by 11am and very bad tempered with it. I don't doubt alcohol brings out the real person sometimes but when a person is addicted you see an addict not some one gently sozzled shoing their real side.
As far as I'm aware you don't stop being an alcoholic and he was drinking on CBB which is odd for an alcoholic to be able to control their drinking
Maybe he's just a nasty bloke trying to be reborn and handily blaming alcohol for his past misdemeanours :kitty:
As far as I'm aware you don't stop being an alcoholic and he was drinking on CBB which is odd for an alcoholic to be able to control their drinking
Maybe he's just a nasty bloke trying to be reborn and handily blaming alcohol for his past misdemeanours :kitty:
I won't argue I don't know him well enough to say, as I said two short meeting years apart. I am also not best person when discussing alcohol it did so much damage in my family and still has a hold on my sister, so I do want so much to believe people can change, it rather colours my thinking.
I won't argue I don't know him well enough to say, as I said two short meeting years apart. I am also not best person when discussing alcohol it did so much damage in my family and still has a hold on my sister, so I do want so much to believe people can change, it rather colours my thinking.
Ah.. People can change hope it happens.. With your sister.
I won't argue I don't know him well enough to say, as I said two short meeting years apart. I am also not best person when discussing alcohol it did so much damage in my family and still has a hold on my sister, so I do want so much to believe people can change, it rather colours my thinking.
In my view people can't really change their fundamental personalities however I believe they can learn to adapt or tone down in relevant circumstance. I think this is what Jim has done in that he managed a stint in CBB without saying anything racist or homophobic or too offensive from what I remember. I've said earlier in this thread whether it was because of editing or conscious or unconscious sexism in the audience or perhaps some manipulation from Jim himself or a combination of all of these Jim did seem to come off better in most his encounters with Linda. I don't think for a minute this is because he is suddenly a decent bloke just that he controlled himself when it mattered and Linda didn't.
For the record though I'm sure with the right support, a suitable programme and the correct mind set people can change their alcohol or drug habits. I hope your sister can manage this
In my view people can't really change their fundamental personalities however I believe they can learn to adapt or tone down in relevant circumstance. I think this is what Jim has done in that he managed a stint in CBB without saying anything racist or homophobic or too offensive from what I remember. I've said earlier in this thread whether it was because of editing or conscious or unconscious sexism in the audience or perhaps some manipulation from Jim himself or a combination of all of these Jim did seem to come off better in most his encounters with Linda. I don't think for a minute this is because he is suddenly a decent bloke just that he controlled himself when it mattered and Linda didn't.
For the record though I'm sure with the right support, a suitable programme and the correct mind set people can change their alcohol or drug habits. I hope your sister can manage this
I agree and he was desperate after the scandal..His slightly favourable edit helped as this is no longer the real BB, but he has friends in high places. But the clues were there. The BIB, only if they stop altogether and don't substitute it with something else. . I also hope for the same M.
In my view people can't really change their fundamental personalities however I believe they can learn to adapt or tone down in relevant circumstance. I think this is what Jim has done in that he managed a stint in CBB without saying anything racist or homophobic or too offensive from what I remember. I've said earlier in this thread whether it was because of editing or conscious or unconscious sexism in the audience or perhaps some manipulation from Jim himself or a combination of all of these Jim did seem to come off better in most his encounters with Linda. I don't think for a minute this is because he is suddenly a decent bloke just that he controlled himself when it mattered and Linda didn't.
For the record though I'm sure with the right support, a suitable programme and the correct mind set people can change their alcohol or drug habits. I hope your sister can manage this
I 100&% agree. I stopped drinking three years ago - I'm still basically the same person but ..............unfortunately I don't think I'm as much fun. Alcohol loosens your inhibitions - I don't think I was ever a nasty drunk - I was a life and soul drunk - then again I suppose to some I was a major PITA. I suppose I still am.;-)
I agree and he was desperate after the scandal..His slightly favourable edit helped as this is no longer the real BB, but he has friends in high places. But the clues were there. The BIB, only if they stop altogether and don't substitute it with something else. . I also hope for the same M.
I've never been a fan of blaming the edit and I've often been quite derisory about the idea that BB have chosen their winner but this latest BB has seriously made me reconsider that position what with the demonisation of Perez and the total tolerance and adulation even on BOTS of everything Katie H. I know she didn't win in the end but still I feel I have to concede now that the edit and favourites of the show clearly do exist and agree that this could go some way to explaining how well Jim did in his year too.
I 100&% agree. I stopped drinking three years ago - I'm still basically the same person but ..............unfortunately I don't think I'm as much fun. Alcohol loosens your inhibitions - I don't think I was ever a nasty drunk - I was a life and soul drunk - then again I suppose to some I was a major PITA. I suppose I still am.;-)
I've never been a fan of blaming the edit and I've often been quite derisory about the idea that BB have chosen their winner but this latest BB has seriously made me reconsider that position what with the demonisation of Perez and the total tolerance and adulation even on BOTS of everything Katie H. I know she didn't win in the end but still I feel I have to concede now that the edit and favourites of the show clearly do exist and agree that this could go some way to explaining how well Jim did in his year too.
The edit plays a huge part in framing the apparent context. Jim's fellow HMs were baffled at what was being shown to get him cheers and saved first every week (and said so), because they weren't seeing it in his behaviour in the house. No one knew that the largely friendly and supportive woman they all loved and called "Momma" was being portrayed as a relentless harpy hounding 'poor old Jim'.
Of course they couldn't show her doing or saying anything she hadn't done or said, but it was just a few minutes out of each day, after he'd done his usual winding up then acting all innocent, which also played into the impression that was being created by the edit.
It wouldn't have mattered so much if Linda being happy and having fun and being appreciated by the others had been shown, at all, for balance, but it wasn't.
I've never been a fan of blaming the edit and I've often been quite derisory about the idea that BB have chosen their winner but this latest BB has seriously made me reconsider that position what with the demonisation of Perez and the total tolerance and adulation even on BOTS of everything Katie H. I know she didn't win in the end but still I feel I have to concede now that the edit and favourites of the show clearly do exist and agree that this could go some way to explaining how well Jim did in his year too.
You a PITA :o As if :D
I follow the C5 clips, many of which don't make the main show and the edit plays a huge part, even from those short glimpses.Not everyone follows the C5 site and when you do the picture painted by BB on the main show can be very distorted and lead to constant arguments on here. As you know, no matter how many times you post links to the fuller story, they are ignored/missed and it can frustratingly stay stuck in the rut of the main show edit.. Coughing Perez being just one example. Even that was out of context on the C5 site after hearing the full story. And so it goes on. Out of context is a very easy manipulative tool to use and my do they use it, in their chosen bias .. Live feed, on the whole, seemed to prevent this manipulation. I would imagine, it would still lead to arguments on forums about context, if FM's hadn't watched it.
The way I recall it Linda dug him out over and over and over again. Then one day I thought someone (Luisa?) asked him why she was doing it, and he said - (and the wording is important!) "Ask her if its anything to do with what happened in Frank Carson's dressing room" - He didn't give details. He didn't TELL anyone it was about her husband or his light fingered fun.
.... Then when Luisa asked Linda she blew her top, and on her next hourly attack on Jim she was all "How dare you tell everyone about my husband .... he's not here to defend himself ...waaaaaaaa!"
If Jim did anything that could be called cruel, it was merely tricking her into telling everyone about what her husband did, but he didn't actually say a word about it himself ! He was just trying to work out why the cantankerous old bat had a problem with him!
He was quite brilliant at winding people up and walking away. I saw him do it about two days in; after that, it was so obvious that I could almost predict what he was going to say.
I don't understand the Nolan hate (weren't they just some sisters who sang a few songs once upon a time?) but it must be strong if it still blinds people to such a cheap, obvious creep as Jim Davidson.
ETA: Apologies to any misogynist or homophobe whose love for Davidson has nothing to do with the Nolans.
:D:D
It always chills me a little how certain women (any member of the Nolan family; any cast member of Loose Women) are viewed, in general, on DS. There's more of a JCB load than a pinch of misogyny about it.
Completely agree. What a man to admire when his personal record speaks for itself, whether or not you dislike a Nolan.
It was obvious that he was edited very carefully but that he had said offensive things and been confrontational from other peoples' conversations about him, especially after a few drinks when he wasn't able to be so careful. They turned him into a whited sepulchre and, when not so drunk and being careful, he was an expert at being passive aggressive, poking and plotting and winding up, too subtlety for many, it seems, even though it was obvious (and fits in with his known character, unlike the invention of the 'gentleman Jim' character).
Comments
How often does he drink though?
People can blame drink for their behaviours and say 'that's not the real me' - if they drink everyday though - surely it is - isn't it?
Not just well known people but all people I like to give people a second chance I think people can change and we have to allow them to do so. If we don't then woe betide anyone making a mistake it will follow you to the grave !
I believe when I first met him he was an alcoholic he was well away by 11am and very bad tempered with it. I don't doubt alcohol brings out the real person sometimes but when a person is addicted you see an addict not some one gently sozzled shoing their real side.
Yes but he still drinks. He may have cut down but - an alcoholic is an alcoholic.
You'll notice Keith didn't touch a drop - Jim admits he gets nasty with drink (he claims if it's too much) he still drunk in the house though if I remember - he started off with water but it didn't last long.
I'm stopping here - I got very involved last time. we can all talk round and round and round. Been there - done that - got banned for it.
I think lines were drawn on this a year ago!
Jim was lovely!
Yes I agree, but in his case and a few others they seem to be able to drink a little more socially after they stop getting so drunk. I have no idea what best practise is or why some seem to be able to and others not. Just glad I never started drinking myself so never had the addiction to it.
From personal experience I can't agree. I admit I could be wrong but - I do think Jim's guard came down when he'd had a drink and we saw flashes of what he really is. I suspect he drinks as much as he ever did but managed to keep a bit of a lid on it in the house. As I say - I can only speak from personal experience - it might be different for others.
I said I was keeping out of this didn't I? I can't help myself
Casey's mum certainly seemed to like him too.
Lol it's hard not too I find if people are discussing nicely as long as people respect each other I always find it interesting.
I was speaking from brief meeting with him 30 years apart, the nasty young man was replaced by quite a gentleman I like to think he changed, I am sure alcohol has damaged him though.
Oh well that settles it - if Casey's mum liked him he must be OK then.
Casey's Mum! :cool: Have some respect woman. >:(
As far as I'm aware you don't stop being an alcoholic and he was drinking on CBB which is odd for an alcoholic to be able to control their drinking
Maybe he's just a nasty bloke trying to be reborn and handily blaming alcohol for his past misdemeanours :kitty:
Yes but Casey liked him as well so I'm still not convinced.
;-):D
I won't argue I don't know him well enough to say, as I said two short meeting years apart. I am also not best person when discussing alcohol it did so much damage in my family and still has a hold on my sister, so I do want so much to believe people can change, it rather colours my thinking.
I agree, I was so pleased when Jim won.:)
Ah.. People can change hope it happens.. With your sister.
In my view people can't really change their fundamental personalities however I believe they can learn to adapt or tone down in relevant circumstance. I think this is what Jim has done in that he managed a stint in CBB without saying anything racist or homophobic or too offensive from what I remember. I've said earlier in this thread whether it was because of editing or conscious or unconscious sexism in the audience or perhaps some manipulation from Jim himself or a combination of all of these Jim did seem to come off better in most his encounters with Linda. I don't think for a minute this is because he is suddenly a decent bloke just that he controlled himself when it mattered and Linda didn't.
For the record though I'm sure with the right support, a suitable programme and the correct mind set people can change their alcohol or drug habits. I hope your sister can manage this
I agree and he was desperate after the scandal..His slightly favourable edit helped as this is no longer the real BB, but he has friends in high places. But the clues were there. The BIB, only if they stop altogether and don't substitute it with something else. . I also hope for the same M.
I 100&% agree. I stopped drinking three years ago - I'm still basically the same person but ..............unfortunately I don't think I'm as much fun. Alcohol loosens your inhibitions - I don't think I was ever a nasty drunk - I was a life and soul drunk - then again I suppose to some I was a major PITA. I suppose I still am.;-)
I agree too and I haven't even seen it! ;-)
I've never been a fan of blaming the edit and I've often been quite derisory about the idea that BB have chosen their winner but this latest BB has seriously made me reconsider that position what with the demonisation of Perez and the total tolerance and adulation even on BOTS of everything Katie H. I know she didn't win in the end but still I feel I have to concede now that the edit and favourites of the show clearly do exist and agree that this could go some way to explaining how well Jim did in his year too.
You a PITA :o As if :D
The edit plays a huge part in framing the apparent context. Jim's fellow HMs were baffled at what was being shown to get him cheers and saved first every week (and said so), because they weren't seeing it in his behaviour in the house. No one knew that the largely friendly and supportive woman they all loved and called "Momma" was being portrayed as a relentless harpy hounding 'poor old Jim'.
Of course they couldn't show her doing or saying anything she hadn't done or said, but it was just a few minutes out of each day, after he'd done his usual winding up then acting all innocent, which also played into the impression that was being created by the edit.
It wouldn't have mattered so much if Linda being happy and having fun and being appreciated by the others had been shown, at all, for balance, but it wasn't.
I follow the C5 clips, many of which don't make the main show and the edit plays a huge part, even from those short glimpses.Not everyone follows the C5 site and when you do the picture painted by BB on the main show can be very distorted and lead to constant arguments on here. As you know, no matter how many times you post links to the fuller story, they are ignored/missed and it can frustratingly stay stuck in the rut of the main show edit.. Coughing Perez being just one example. Even that was out of context on the C5 site after hearing the full story. And so it goes on. Out of context is a very easy manipulative tool to use and my do they use it, in their chosen bias .. Live feed, on the whole, seemed to prevent this manipulation. I would imagine, it would still lead to arguments on forums about context, if FM's hadn't watched it.
He was quite brilliant at winding people up and walking away. I saw him do it about two days in; after that, it was so obvious that I could almost predict what he was going to say.
:D:D
It always chills me a little how certain women (any member of the Nolan family; any cast member of Loose Women) are viewed, in general, on DS. There's more of a JCB load than a pinch of misogyny about it.
Spot on.
Makes two of us, Penny.
Precisely.