No point arguing it really. There's no possible way Bobby killed her with that music box, taking into account his height and strength. And a slap from Abi, a push from Denise and nose bleed from Jake is hardly going to do that much damage either.
But it all depends on how heavy the box is. If a toddler drops a brick on your head it's going to do some damage, he doesn't need to throw it with much force.
I don't think any of the previous 'trauma' made a difference. The accident in the car lot was the day previous so if there had been any damage it would have presented itself by then. Plus the other slaps, accidental elbow and push were hardly likely to seriously hurt her. People get beaten up hard and manage to survive. I think we're supposed to believe it wasn't so much the force but unfortunately Bobby just hit the wrong part of the head which does happen
When I was like 6, I was sat on my brothers back while he played his game, I then hit him on the head with a cd case or game case, can't remember now, anyway I didn't think I hit him that hard but his head bled so much (yes I did get put on the naught step ) I think if Bobby managed to hit her just right, maybe it was enough to kill her.
I don't think any of the previous 'trauma' made a difference. The accident in the car lot was the day previous so if there had been any damage it would have presented itself by then. Plus the other slaps, accidental elbow and push were hardly likely to seriously hurt her. People get beaten up hard and manage to survive. I think we're supposed to believe it wasn't so much the force but unfortunately Bobby just hit the wrong part of the head which does happen
That's exactly what happened, and that's what people on here don't seem to understand.
They thought it would be too much especially in terms of the actor having to play it out and the bad feedback he may receive from the public.
I found this an interesting perspective. Surely the fact he did would have that effect whether they actually showed it or not. I was quite interested in the idea that Bobby has now become probably the most famous character and actor in the country so any backlash if there is to be backlash will already occur.
I think they decided not to show him do it because it quite simply would have been too difficult to show how he could have killed her that way and he wasn't really up to it. Also it allows them much more ability to add things if they want to or play with the facts if we haven't actually seen it.
I kind of feel like if they were going down the route that all of others were also partially responsible, they'd have said it by now. DTC has said a few times "Bobby killed Lucy" but doesn't mention the idea that the rest of the hits contributed, so I personally think they aren't going there. The only blow that mattered was the one that Bobby gave.
It's Max injury and Bobby bash on head with a jewellery box. Lucy sat down and a full force bash with box can do serious damage. He didn't call Jane immediately so she could have taken time to die.
It's Max injury and Bobby bash on head with a jewellery box. Lucy sat down and a full force bash with box can do serious damage. He didn't call Jane immediately so she could have taken time to die.
Full force by an adult maybe . Not by a young child in my opinion
It's basic knowledge. None of her injuries beforehand could have possibly affected her head. Denise threw her onto the bed, which is soft, and her head hardly touched it. Abi slapped her, which definitely isn't enough to cause any trauma, and Jake punched her in the nose which wouldn't affect the trauma either.
All of you say that little Bobby couldn't have been enough to cause her death, yet jewellery boxes are usually heavy. Not brick heavy, but definitely close by. Bobby was the only one responsible for Lucy's death and it's not medically possible that anyone else could've caused any primary damage except for Bobby, when he threw the jewellery box at her.
A head doesn't have to hit something hard to sustain an injury. Anything that causes the brain to shake violently in the skull could cause an injury. Look at 'shaken baby syndrome'.
Jake kit her nose hard enough to cause a nose bleed so could conceivable have caused damage. We didn't see exactly what Abi did to her. She ended up on the floor under Denise didn't she? Plus the blow she'd received at the car lot a couple of days earlier.
Really any of those could have caused something like a subdural haematomae which is a ticking time bomb.
But it all depends on how heavy the box is. If a toddler drops a brick on your head it's going to do some damage, he doesn't need to throw it with much force.
Yes this is very true. I think it probably was Bobby's blow and he was just very unlucky in getting her in the 'wrong' spot. She could still have been weakened by the previous blows but wouldn't have died if Bobby hadn't hit her, so in that sense he is solely responsible.
I think the point is that any of those blows could have killed her if the assailant had been unlucky.
Right I'm posting my final thoughts on this and then like that song my kid loves that's doing my head in I'm going to let it go.
For whatever reasons the writers have made their decision and they are sticking by it so no matter how shafted we feel that's the end of that.
As long as they are equally happy that we are also put to the wise with regard to any future involvement in their can you solve the mystery shannanigans.
I really suspect that they had planned a different ending if the viewers cottoned on and I think that change happened more recently than they are saying. However, in doing so they are asking their viewers for an extrodinarily high measure of suspension of belief .
The live episode was only remotely emotional because of Ian finally discovering what happened to his only daughter and the letter that Lucy had left for him being read at the end. Apart from these and Peter's very real and honest reaction to the facts, the rest of the episode had more holes than a teabag.
How on earth can a man forgive the woman who has admitted to this level of involvement and secrecy within the space of twenty minutes? At best you would need hours if not days to come to any kind of understanding.
Where do we go with Jane's characterisation? Right now I wouldn't trust this woman with a shopping list. No one puts a body in a boot with the slightest intention of going to a hospital. When Peter questions this very dodgy part of her confession. She re-iterates SHE WAS DEAD. Jane must have already decided therefore to dump the body before leaving the house. That junction rubbish was to elicit sympathy for her actions. Jane is not a stupid woman and would surely know like the rest of us that A and E are pretty much useless when it comes to bringing the dead back to life!
Carrying Lucy like a baby across the common while lighting the way with her phone. Can not even be debated. It's impossible and should have had Peter saying what a load of bull right there. The laid her down kissed her etc was to elicit yet more sympathy. She's Monstorous!
The whole idea of what she did she did it for her child/ put yourself in my place/ only a mothers love etc. is laughable. This woman has gone off and left this child to the care of others on at least three occassions to fulfil personal emotional needs or ambitions. Jane is obsessive about Bobby because she is unable to have a child of her own. The fact that she has been hiding the truth from Bobby is disturbing in the extreme. If Bobby has done what he is supposed to have done a responsible parent would want to make sure that he has not been emotionally affected by it or indeed that he would never do it again. If the Music box was placed under the tree by Bobby I would be making a doctors appointment for him asap, not sending him around to Massoods with a toothbrush or telling him to go upstairs and watch TV or play on the internet unsupervsed. Who only knows what he's watching?
Cindy comes up with the you wouldn't understand you don't have a child line to Peter and Jane's eyes almost flicker with delight. One on board. Cindy is no more than a child herself and hasn't thought about the possibility of having a small baby in the house with a child that has killed another sibling. He addressed the murder weapon to Beth!! and has held on to that note for 10 months not even Jane knew about that and everyone is fine with that?
Finally Jane has watched a man go to prison for him and someone elses daughter die in the pursuit of the truth. When she confonted Emma in the Vic it was clear that one more question and Jane would have asked her darling boy to fetch the box I'm sure. So now as the most surely macarbre family on the square are they going to watch someone else be punished for the crime? No of course not, because whilst I'm sure someone may be slightly inconvenienced by Old Ma Beale and her boy this may just be conveniantly pinned on Old Ma Cotton's dead Nick/Bobby and it will be back to Reg Cox's place in twenty years time for the 50th.
So in the mean time lets all get down to Beales for a Burger. Just make sure you don't complain if it's undercooked!
Incredible post, exactly what I have been thinking! Jane's a liar, bobby's a liar, cindy's an idiot and Ian forgave his wife is a ridiculous amount of time. The whole family apart from Peter has gone down in my estimations and i think rather than showcase and highlight one of the oldest families on eastenders dtc has just completely ruined them
Some interesting points, i get the impression dissenting voices are being ignored and isn't is all wonderful when in truth it is insulting and ridiculous.
They didn't show any of the killing or of the body being removed because it would have been an embarrassment IMO.
The contempt shown, and still be shown for dedicated viewers who engaged completely in good faith with the challenge they presented to them is to me appalling. It's spitting in the face of people who deserve more.
Let set up a Lucy case file with alibi interviews, narrow the suspect list etc etc and laugh at the idiots who try and work it. Guffaw Guffaw.
I'm really moving towards the thought that the story was changed along the way, there's too many inconsistencies/bizarre character actions otherwise. I think the intensity of a few of the performances on the live show really papered over the cracks that a lot of this didn't make sense
All the excitement has gone now, But i am looking forward to watching this week though
I'm 50/50. I think there are some interesting other stories coming up and I want to see what happens between Lauren and Peter. But the whole beale family has been ruined for me now and I think I'm going to find their scenes ' tainted ' as a result
Some interesting points, i get the impression dissenting voices are being ignored and isn't is all wonderful when in truth it is insulting and ridiculous.
They didn't show any of the killing or of the body being removed because it would have been an embarrassment IMO.
The contempt shown, and still be shown for dedicated viewers who engaged completely in good faith with the challenge they presented to them is to me appalling. It's spitting in the face of people who deserve more.
Let set up a Lucy case file with alibi interviews, narrow the suspect list etc etc and laugh at the idiots who try and work it. Guffaw Guffaw.
They can eat shit.
I think the they have had a lot more negative feedback than they would like to admit! Everyone was saying how great ee was again in the run up to the 30th but with so many plot holes and complete character assisinations a considerable number of people are completely pee'd off. DTC compared the storyline to marmite as a way of trying to justify it. That just didn't make sense to me. If you don't like marmite, you don't buy it. So is he saying if you don't like the storyline don't watch it? DTC had to respond to the criticism sunshine but I think the way in which he had done so is alienating people even more.
I think the they have had a lot more negative feedback than they would like to admit! Everyone was saying how great ee was again in the run up to the 30th but with so many plot holes and complete character assisinations a considerable number of people are completely pee'd off. DTC compared the storyline to marmite as a way of trying to justify it. That just didn't make sense to me. If you don't like marmite, you don't buy it. So is he saying if you don't like the storyline don't watch it? DTC had to respond to the criticism sunshine but I think the way in which he had done so is alienating people even more.
I was miffed by the amount of 'plot holes' but hopefully these will become potential storylines in months to come....calm down dear it's only a "soap opera"
They didn't show any of the killing or of the body being removed because it would have been an embarrassment IMO.
If you read the interview on DS; "EE boss responds to criticism over reveal", or something like that, DTC says it would be too traumatic making a 12 year old actor re-enact the killing.
There may be some inaccuracies, unanswered questions, or things that don't seem to add up. But I think people seem to be forgetting that when Lucy died, only a handful of people knew who had killed her. Laurie, apparently, found out in November, but that's still 6 months after the event; Bobby, I think, found out hours before the show. So for a long time, the actors didn't know how to play their lines - were their characters hiding something? Did that speech/action have a double meaning? And so on.
Then there was the fact that Jane worked out what had happened and that Bobby was responsible, and had to try to explain it in such a way as to convince the family that it was her.
I think the live episode was brilliant; sad, moving and explained it so that it does make sense - if I had missed it, I may not have been convinced after the flash back episode.
Glad to know there are still a few disgruntled viewers of this tripe. The Facebook page deletes anything that doesn't chime with DTC's cock and bull. I agree with those who posted that the so called celebration of the oldest family on the square is tainted they just ripped out their values as I sit here watching 1985 on YouTube. Lou Beale will be turning in her grave.
Comments
But it all depends on how heavy the box is. If a toddler drops a brick on your head it's going to do some damage, he doesn't need to throw it with much force.
They thought it would be too much especially in terms of the actor having to play it out and the bad feedback he may receive from the public.
That's exactly what happened, and that's what people on here don't seem to understand.
I found this an interesting perspective. Surely the fact he did would have that effect whether they actually showed it or not. I was quite interested in the idea that Bobby has now become probably the most famous character and actor in the country so any backlash if there is to be backlash will already occur.
I think they decided not to show him do it because it quite simply would have been too difficult to show how he could have killed her that way and he wasn't really up to it. Also it allows them much more ability to add things if they want to or play with the facts if we haven't actually seen it.
Full force by an adult maybe . Not by a young child in my opinion
A head doesn't have to hit something hard to sustain an injury. Anything that causes the brain to shake violently in the skull could cause an injury. Look at 'shaken baby syndrome'.
Jake kit her nose hard enough to cause a nose bleed so could conceivable have caused damage. We didn't see exactly what Abi did to her. She ended up on the floor under Denise didn't she? Plus the blow she'd received at the car lot a couple of days earlier.
Really any of those could have caused something like a subdural haematomae which is a ticking time bomb.
Yes this is very true. I think it probably was Bobby's blow and he was just very unlucky in getting her in the 'wrong' spot. She could still have been weakened by the previous blows but wouldn't have died if Bobby hadn't hit her, so in that sense he is solely responsible.
I think the point is that any of those blows could have killed her if the assailant had been unlucky.
Incredible post, exactly what I have been thinking! Jane's a liar, bobby's a liar, cindy's an idiot and Ian forgave his wife is a ridiculous amount of time. The whole family apart from Peter has gone down in my estimations and i think rather than showcase and highlight one of the oldest families on eastenders dtc has just completely ruined them
They didn't show any of the killing or of the body being removed because it would have been an embarrassment IMO.
The contempt shown, and still be shown for dedicated viewers who engaged completely in good faith with the challenge they presented to them is to me appalling. It's spitting in the face of people who deserve more.
Let set up a Lucy case file with alibi interviews, narrow the suspect list etc etc and laugh at the idiots who try and work it. Guffaw Guffaw.
They can eat shit.
I'm 50/50. I think there are some interesting other stories coming up and I want to see what happens between Lauren and Peter. But the whole beale family has been ruined for me now and I think I'm going to find their scenes ' tainted ' as a result
I think the they have had a lot more negative feedback than they would like to admit! Everyone was saying how great ee was again in the run up to the 30th but with so many plot holes and complete character assisinations a considerable number of people are completely pee'd off. DTC compared the storyline to marmite as a way of trying to justify it. That just didn't make sense to me. If you don't like marmite, you don't buy it. So is he saying if you don't like the storyline don't watch it? DTC had to respond to the criticism sunshine but I think the way in which he had done so is alienating people even more.
I was miffed by the amount of 'plot holes' but hopefully these will become potential storylines in months to come....calm down dear it's only a "soap opera"
If you read the interview on DS; "EE boss responds to criticism over reveal", or something like that, DTC says it would be too traumatic making a 12 year old actor re-enact the killing.
There may be some inaccuracies, unanswered questions, or things that don't seem to add up. But I think people seem to be forgetting that when Lucy died, only a handful of people knew who had killed her. Laurie, apparently, found out in November, but that's still 6 months after the event; Bobby, I think, found out hours before the show. So for a long time, the actors didn't know how to play their lines - were their characters hiding something? Did that speech/action have a double meaning? And so on.
Then there was the fact that Jane worked out what had happened and that Bobby was responsible, and had to try to explain it in such a way as to convince the family that it was her.
I think the live episode was brilliant; sad, moving and explained it so that it does make sense - if I had missed it, I may not have been convinced after the flash back episode.