As a woman I must admit that we do make ourselves vulnerable if we get fall down blotto drunk. We know hat some predatory people prey on others who are incapacitated so why make it easy for them. We are not responsible for their actions only making targets of ourselves.
As a woman I must admit that we do make ourselves vulnerable if we get fall down blotto drunk. We know hat some predatory people prey on others who are incapacitated so why make it easy for them. We are not responsible for their actions only making targets of ourselves.
It is wrong bad things happen to people but I must agree, My dad used to be a drunk and would go out and get bladdered, A few times he fell asleep at places like train stations on the way home and would be robbed whilst vulnerable and asleep.
You seem to be unable to distinguish between "men" and "rapists". I'd advise taking on board the distinction before entering into debate otherwise it makes you look rather ill informed.
Oh dear.
I am not unable to make the distinction; however, I do not know of any women who have been raped by women. It is usually women who are raped by men and sometimes men by men. Very rarely hear of women rapists. Unless you have lots of examples to make yourself seem less ill informed? I suspect not.
Meanwhile, women should not have to modify their behaviour; we are not an Islamic state after all.
Okay, let me ask you this then. In lieu of the fact that there are men that will rape regardless of how wrong they know it is, just like murderers etc, what do you suggest that would make women safer?
Common sense wins out eventually. There is a massive void between saying that getting drunk makes you vulnerable, and actually blaming you if you get attacked or worse when you are drunk.
It's often stuck me that a group of friends can only go home together if they live pretty close to one another. If one of them lives in completely the opposite direction from the rest, she has to go home alone, surely?
We used to drop if our friend who lived in a different direction first always, then last were the siblings. We also still as adults make sure that it is clear the last person calls to say they got home safely. It's safety but it's also polite.
I am not unable to make the distinction; however, I do not know of any women who have been raped by women. It is usually women who are raped by men and sometimes men by men. Very rarely hear of women rapists. Unless you have lots of examples to make yourself seem less ill informed? I suspect not.
Since the definition of rape is sexist, in that only a man can be convicted of rape, you won't hear of a woman being called a rapist!
This law needs changing ASAP, if there is truly to be equality between the sexes.
Because women do rape men, even if the law doesnt define it as such.
Also, you might want to tone it down a bit, youbare coming across as a rabid man hater.
(Although you do perfect define what a modern feminist is! If the actual Feminists of 50 years ago saw how the movement has changed from one for equality to one about Female privilege and sueriority they would be utterly disgusted!).
Why is it that women should modify their behaviour when they are (usually) the rape victims? Should we just accept that men will rape and there's not much - if anything - we can do about it - so let's have one glass of wine, wear a sensible outfit and stay sober whilst the blokes get hammered - just in case we happened to get raped?
Unfortunately this is the world we live in. It has to be accepted surely that if you do go out and get drunk, you make yourself more vulnerable. Not just to rape but getting beaten up or mugged too. I've no idea why people get so annoyed at the suggestion. It's not putting blame on any victim to suggest that.
We shouldn't have to alter our behaviour, in an ideal world I wouldn't have to lock my front door when I leave the house on the off chance somebody is going to walk into it and steal from me, but I do have to do that.
Okay, let me ask you this then. In lieu of the fact that there are men that will rape regardless of how wrong they know it is, just like murderers etc, what do you suggest that would make women safer?
Since the definition of rape is sexist, in that only a man can be convicted of rape, you won't hear of a woman being called a rapist!
This law needs changing ASAP, if there is truly to be equality between the sexes.
Because women do rape men, even if the law doesnt define it as such.
Also, you might want to tone it down a bit, youbare coming across as a rabid man hater.
(Although you do perfect define what a modern feminist is! If the actual Feminists of 50 years ago saw how the movement has changed from one for equality to one about Female privilege and sueriority they would be utterly disgusted!).
Shame on me for hating men that rape. Yep, I iz a proper man hatah
& female privilege? What - like getting the vote and not expecting to get raped when we go out? God Almighty, what is wrong with these wimmun?
Shame on me for hating men that rape. Yep, I iz a proper man hatah
& female privilege? What - like getting the vote and not expecting to get raped when we go out? God Almighty, what is wrong with these wimmun?
Did you read my post? I'll ask again. Since we can't stop a small minority of men from raping, since they are people without morals, what can be done to help protect women from them?
Since the definition of rape is sexist, in that only a man can be convicted of rape, you won't hear of a woman being called a rapist!
This law needs changing ASAP, if there is truly to be equality between the sexes.
Because women do rape men, even if the law doesnt define it as such.
Also, you might want to tone it down a bit, youbare coming across as a rabid man hater.
(Although you do perfect define what a modern feminist is! If the actual Feminists of 50 years ago saw how the movement has changed from one for equality to one about Female privilege and sueriority they would be utterly disgusted!).
Oh no, please. Not the "You're a man hater" shtick. It really is the last resort. Come on now, you can do better than that.
There is no such thing as a modern feminist. A feminist is a feminist is a feminist. All that has changed is the specific goal. The Suffragettes fought for franchise and achieved it so they were then able to move on.
Feminism hasn't changed but society has and the goals have altered with it to remain relevant. Think of any area of modern life where women are disadvantaged, discriminated against or abused because of their gender alone, and overcoming that is the goal of feminism.
There is no call for female superiority. That, I can assure you is most definitely NOT on the agenda.
It is disappointing that some men feel so threatened and intimidated by a social group that only calls for equality. Surely a fair minded man would find women's aims quite reasonable.
My parents had three daughters. My father always said that he wanted the best for his girls. He has no qualms about the aims of feminism. He loves his children and wants them to be successful in whatever they choose to do. He wants them to be able to move safely in the world when they go about their everyday lives. He recognises that for that to happen women must be equal. They must be respected and valued in society, not treated as chattels or pieces of meat.
He doesn't call his daughters "Man haters" just because they desire a better life. He's just a good, loving, caring father. Who could possibly hate that..??
I'd like that to, this would mean that women would have nothing to fear when getting drunk on a night out. How do you propose that we get rapists and would-be rapists to not rape?
You could argue why anybody should have to modify their behaviour when drunk. Why not let people drive when they are completely blotto, for example?
this is my issue, it`s time to stop it, stop making rape victims [and joe bloggs] feel like they bear some of the blame for being attacked and start warning PEOPLE about the dangers.
men are just as vulnerable to attack when pissed, probably more so, it`s just the nature of the attack that differs
this is my issue, it`s time to stop it, stop making rape victims [and joe bloggs] feel like they bear some of the blame for being attacked and start warning PEOPLE about the dangers.
men are just as vulnerable to attack when pissed, probably more so, it`s just the nature of the attack that differs
Agreed.
Women are more likely to be sexually assaulted. Men are more likely to face sheer random violence.
All are likely to be robbed.
To me, it's commonsense for anybody to avoid getting drunk. But the logic which gives a bye to one gender not expected to modify their behaviour when drunk, is addled at best.
By the way, these days, there is much more women on women violence.
Yes, it does to me sound like (some) women would prefer to criticize men, and accept a (remote) possibility that they will come to harm than accept that they could modify their behaviour to avoid harm.
And not necessarily rape. Theft must be another possibility.
BIB - I agree. Also your other post brought up a good point when you mentioned gay men modifying their behaviour in certain situations for fear of getting verbal/physical abuse etc.
Also, I've heard loads of posts talking about women being either comatose or paralytic.....obviously things must be different now to how i remember them, because I used to be drunk very frequently as did plenty of other people. But I rarely ever saw someone so drunk, especially a woman, they'd passed out on the pavement, or was absolutely paralytic and comatose.
Lots of posters are talking about educating men. Which imo is a waste of time. Though maybe the media should be educating women on not getting that wasted when they go out at night!
One of my uni girlfriends used to carry a fork in her handbag, which she did actually stick into someone once. He was a mugger, not a rapist, but it worked.
Carrying anything for the purpose of using it as a weapon can lead to prosecution, and it's hard to see what legitimate use someone might have for carrying a fork in their handbag. And in the event of being attacked, there would be limited opportunity to get it out of the handbag.
When I walked home alone at night, I used to hold my keys in my right hand, with the keys between my fingers. They'd have made a great knuckleduster, and totally legitimate to carry.
That tip was given by a police officer who taught women self-defence.
Are men incapable of thinking about the same issue?
You say it's a problem with society - and it totally is - and part of the problem is the fact that women are compelled to refine their behaviour whilst Men's behavious is just accepted as the norm.
A lot of what I'm reading on this thread suggests that a few posters don't want to acknowledge that there are very obvious gender differences.
Logically, it's straightforward to see (although some may inevitably disagree) that men and women are quite obviously not the same.
And in lots of situations, maybe different rules apply to each gender.
I keep reading posters saying, well if it applies to women, then the same should apply to men.........It's almost like some of us don't want to acnowledge the differences between men and women due to the fact that we've now got equality.
But we can still be equal to each other and yet have obvious undeniable differences between each other.
And maybe the odds are stacked against women. Maybe it's to be accepted that if a woman goes out and gets drunk, she'll face more risk than if a man does the same thing.
I think victim blaming and taking better care of ourselves are two different things.
Having said that, if a woman was raped in a hotel room tonight, because she willingly went back to his place, without knowing anything about him, threw caution to the wind and didn't care etc, and afterwards she ends up raped. Then of course the rapist is to be blamed, but the woman would have to and should still have to accept her part in it, for doing something so incredibly dangerous and stupid in the first place!
Shame on me for hating men that rape. Yep, I iz a proper man hatah
& female privilege? What - like getting the vote and not expecting to get raped when we go out? God Almighty, what is wrong with these wimmun?
Yes, we get so many privileges, don't we? The right to do the same jobs as men, AND to be paid the same, that's a great privilege. And not having to put up with being beaten, sometimes to death, by our partners, that's a real bonus.
A lot of what I'm reading on this thread suggests that a few posters don't want to acknowledge that there are very obvious gender differences....And in lots of situations, maybe different rules apply to each gender.
But applying different rules because of gender is discriminatory, unless the difference levels the playing field, as is the case in equal pay and other legislation.
I don't want different rules, I want equality and respect.
Comments
It is wrong bad things happen to people but I must agree, My dad used to be a drunk and would go out and get bladdered, A few times he fell asleep at places like train stations on the way home and would be robbed whilst vulnerable and asleep.
Oh dear.
I am not unable to make the distinction; however, I do not know of any women who have been raped by women. It is usually women who are raped by men and sometimes men by men. Very rarely hear of women rapists. Unless you have lots of examples to make yourself seem less ill informed? I suspect not.
I think the majority of rapists are men, and have you ever heard of a woman raping a man in the street, and is that even possible.
Getting drunk makes everybody more vulnerable - male or female.
Makes you vulnerable to attack and vulnerable to doing something stupid, such as attacking another person.
Okay, let me ask you this then. In lieu of the fact that there are men that will rape regardless of how wrong they know it is, just like murderers etc, what do you suggest that would make women safer?
We used to drop if our friend who lived in a different direction first always, then last were the siblings. We also still as adults make sure that it is clear the last person calls to say they got home safely. It's safety but it's also polite.
This law needs changing ASAP, if there is truly to be equality between the sexes.
Because women do rape men, even if the law doesnt define it as such.
Also, you might want to tone it down a bit, youbare coming across as a rabid man hater.
(Although you do perfect define what a modern feminist is! If the actual Feminists of 50 years ago saw how the movement has changed from one for equality to one about Female privilege and sueriority they would be utterly disgusted!).
Unfortunately this is the world we live in. It has to be accepted surely that if you do go out and get drunk, you make yourself more vulnerable. Not just to rape but getting beaten up or mugged too. I've no idea why people get so annoyed at the suggestion. It's not putting blame on any victim to suggest that.
We shouldn't have to alter our behaviour, in an ideal world I wouldn't have to lock my front door when I leave the house on the off chance somebody is going to walk into it and steal from me, but I do have to do that.
Men not raping them
Shame on me for hating men that rape. Yep, I iz a proper man hatah
& female privilege? What - like getting the vote and not expecting to get raped when we go out? God Almighty, what is wrong with these wimmun?
Did you read my post? I'll ask again. Since we can't stop a small minority of men from raping, since they are people without morals, what can be done to help protect women from them?
Oh no, please. Not the "You're a man hater" shtick. It really is the last resort. Come on now, you can do better than that.
There is no such thing as a modern feminist. A feminist is a feminist is a feminist. All that has changed is the specific goal. The Suffragettes fought for franchise and achieved it so they were then able to move on.
Feminism hasn't changed but society has and the goals have altered with it to remain relevant. Think of any area of modern life where women are disadvantaged, discriminated against or abused because of their gender alone, and overcoming that is the goal of feminism.
There is no call for female superiority. That, I can assure you is most definitely NOT on the agenda.
It is disappointing that some men feel so threatened and intimidated by a social group that only calls for equality. Surely a fair minded man would find women's aims quite reasonable.
My parents had three daughters. My father always said that he wanted the best for his girls. He has no qualms about the aims of feminism. He loves his children and wants them to be successful in whatever they choose to do. He wants them to be able to move safely in the world when they go about their everyday lives. He recognises that for that to happen women must be equal. They must be respected and valued in society, not treated as chattels or pieces of meat.
He doesn't call his daughters "Man haters" just because they desire a better life. He's just a good, loving, caring father. Who could possibly hate that..??
I'd like that to, this would mean that women would have nothing to fear when getting drunk on a night out. How do you propose that we get rapists and would-be rapists to not rape?
I don't get why women are especially highlighted.
You could argue why anybody should have to modify their behaviour when drunk. Why not let people drive when they are completely blotto, for example?
this is my issue, it`s time to stop it, stop making rape victims [and joe bloggs] feel like they bear some of the blame for being attacked and start warning PEOPLE about the dangers.
men are just as vulnerable to attack when pissed, probably more so, it`s just the nature of the attack that differs
Agreed.
Women are more likely to be sexually assaulted. Men are more likely to face sheer random violence.
All are likely to be robbed.
To me, it's commonsense for anybody to avoid getting drunk. But the logic which gives a bye to one gender not expected to modify their behaviour when drunk, is addled at best.
By the way, these days, there is much more women on women violence.
BIB - I agree. Also your other post brought up a good point when you mentioned gay men modifying their behaviour in certain situations for fear of getting verbal/physical abuse etc.
Also, I've heard loads of posts talking about women being either comatose or paralytic.....obviously things must be different now to how i remember them, because I used to be drunk very frequently as did plenty of other people. But I rarely ever saw someone so drunk, especially a woman, they'd passed out on the pavement, or was absolutely paralytic and comatose.
Lots of posters are talking about educating men. Which imo is a waste of time. Though maybe the media should be educating women on not getting that wasted when they go out at night!
Carrying anything for the purpose of using it as a weapon can lead to prosecution, and it's hard to see what legitimate use someone might have for carrying a fork in their handbag. And in the event of being attacked, there would be limited opportunity to get it out of the handbag.
When I walked home alone at night, I used to hold my keys in my right hand, with the keys between my fingers. They'd have made a great knuckleduster, and totally legitimate to carry.
That tip was given by a police officer who taught women self-defence.
A lot of what I'm reading on this thread suggests that a few posters don't want to acknowledge that there are very obvious gender differences.
Logically, it's straightforward to see (although some may inevitably disagree) that men and women are quite obviously not the same.
And in lots of situations, maybe different rules apply to each gender.
I keep reading posters saying, well if it applies to women, then the same should apply to men.........It's almost like some of us don't want to acnowledge the differences between men and women due to the fact that we've now got equality.
But we can still be equal to each other and yet have obvious undeniable differences between each other.
And maybe the odds are stacked against women. Maybe it's to be accepted that if a woman goes out and gets drunk, she'll face more risk than if a man does the same thing.
I think victim blaming and taking better care of ourselves are two different things.
Having said that, if a woman was raped in a hotel room tonight, because she willingly went back to his place, without knowing anything about him, threw caution to the wind and didn't care etc, and afterwards she ends up raped. Then of course the rapist is to be blamed, but the woman would have to and should still have to accept her part in it, for doing something so incredibly dangerous and stupid in the first place!
Yes, we get so many privileges, don't we? The right to do the same jobs as men, AND to be paid the same, that's a great privilege. And not having to put up with being beaten, sometimes to death, by our partners, that's a real bonus.
Reductio ad absurdum!
But applying different rules because of gender is discriminatory, unless the difference levels the playing field, as is the case in equal pay and other legislation.
I don't want different rules, I want equality and respect.