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Cameron doesn't want us to leave EU as spin machine gets ready
Everything Goes
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Cameron doesn't really want us to leave the EU. I suspect he's thinking its bad for business. The same big business who back the Conservative Party probably wouldn't be happy with an EU exit. Whatever he gets from the re-negotiations even if its practically nothing it will be spun as a huge victory and a reason we must stay in the EU. Therefore the Referendum may well totally bogus.
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We had loads and loads arguments from those who opposed Scottish independance, particularly from south of the border, independance was bad, its all about small minded nationalism, feverent small minded Scottish nationalism is bad, SNP driving a wedge in communities etc, comments like this coming from JK Rowling, Stephen Fry, even Bob Geldof of all people. But of course these same people who are opposed to "increased nationalism" (of any sort) were ok with British nationalism, union jack flag waving etc, and people who hold those opinions will now drum up the patriotic tune for leaving the EU.
Small minded Scottish nationalism is bad, but British patriotism is good.
Personally I hate patriotism full stop, but the hypocrisy from some of those who support leaving the EU (giving the opposite reasons for Scotland staying in the UK) is certainly interesting to say the least.
It isn't hypocrisy at all. The EU isn't a country, it's a political entity that makes up laws for member states to adhere to, Scotland is part of a country, our country, so of course concerns about them leaving our country and changing the very essence and identity of our country was always going to attract comment.
I'm not sure why you're dressing this up in conspiracy and speculation. Everything you've written has been openly stated by those involved.
Cameron has said he will campaign to stay in the EU.
The CBI has said EU membership is good for business.
The major donors are reported here quarter by quarter for every party.
The referendum isn't totally bogus, the result is 100% dependent on which way people vote. If people are too stupid to read the information available from both sides and make up their mind, we shouldn't have a referendum at all.
You post looks like you are already preparing to lose the vote and want your excuses in early.
Tend to agree in some respects but I think the upshot is that some in Scotland believe that Scotland gets a raw deal from the Union, as with the EU it is those who wish to leave who believe that the UK gets a raw deal from the EU. In Scotland it is seen by a large minority that democracy in Scotland is subservient to the overall democracy of the Union and in that sense the Scottish minority (in the Union) frequently have a Government foisted on them although on occasion their minority (in the Union) can foist a Government on the English.
The argument should centre on the merits of each Union. I think the UK is a fairly good Union working broadly for the interests for its citizens obviously with much improvement both required and possible through the democratic process. I could not present the EU as the same. If beneficial trade is the main reason to stay in then perhaps that is a cost too high to remain in what is a Bureaucratic nightmare with very limited democratic accountability.
(the Pope's having a day off today)
These debates always expose hypocrisy on all sides. When "Big Business" said they would leave Scotland if it voted for independence then they were accused of scaremongering. When the same businesses say they would leave the UK if we exit from the EU then we are told that they should be listened to.
He's made deliberately vague promises on what the reforms will be so that's almost impossible to pin him down.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/22/david-cameron-eu-reform-riga-european-union
Us plebs will continue to see unmitigated immigration, have our wages sink further and our heritage further demolished.
It will be interesting to see which major figures from Labour and Conservatives openly support the OUT campaign. They will need some Big Beasts with some credibility if they hope to win the referendum as if it is just UKIP plus a few lunatics then they won't have a chance.
Corrected for you...nor sure Peter Bonio and Kate Fuey would count;-)
How has our heritage been demolished?
Not many they are all lunatics don't you know. ;-)
Is this the best the government can come with up, if so oh dear. It seems tax credits is the big issue though the levels of these has nothing to do with the EU as the amounts in Germany are half what they are in the UK. Kind of suggests lower wages need more topping up here or God forbid the Germans just expect being in work to support yourself or perhaps the government wants harmony across the EU in tax credits.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32865227
Sssshhhh....we don't want that kind of thinking and talk round here ;-)
but it's ok, the working tax credit will stop it.
The disdain our politicians have for us is truly remarkably.
I believe the focus may well be on limiting tax credits and other benefits.
Tax credits for those on low wages are rather lucrative - compared to what they would get at home in eastern Europe - and can be worth several hundred pounds a month. For someone on minimum wage - potentially up £1,000 a month. Not sure why its the job of the UK taxpayer to subsidise low wages for foreign nationals - we already spend over £30 billion on our own nationals.
But that is the problem with tax credits - why would employers pay higher wages if the government happily tops low wages up instead so people can live on them.
When we are making our elderly in England pay up to £1,500 a month for their home helps - who have lived and paid taxes here for life - cos we have no money it is an issue.
The Alternative Vote referendum was heavily influenced by the government, as was Scotland's independence referendum. If Cameron wants us in the EU, I seriously doubt we'll be leaving.
I think if there is integration and acceptance of the national rules and cultures it can work. But the problem is that even in supposed multicultural wonderful London we are creating divided communities and estates where people live with their own.
We did of course celebrate the Irish gay marriage vote at the weekend - I do wonder if we had such a vote whether it would pass in Tower Hamlets and Bradford and in due course other areas.
Not just the government. Labour, SNP, Lib Dems, PC and the Greens will also support IN. So will most of the Unions.
Apart from UKIP you will be left with a few from the fringes of Labour and Tories supporting OUT.
There is a genuine case to be made for OUT but they need to find more credible proponents than Peter Bone to lead the campaign.
David Cameron and other MPs are there to serve the British people, that is their only choice.