To be fair they've said they're scrapping the lengthy punditry. The Football League Show was an absolute chore to watch. The dreadfully dull studio along with boring punditry which I couldn't care less about. I want a fast paced highlights show. It doesn't need to be 2 hours long either.
To be fair they've said they're scrapping the lengthy punditry. The Football League Show was an absolute chore to watch. The dreadfully dull studio along with boring punditry which I couldn't care less about. I want a fast paced highlights show. It doesn't need to be 2 hours long either.
Scrapping lengthy punditry would've been good if they'd have said "all you'll see is highlights and relevant manager interviews". They've replaced 1 bad/pointless thing and replaced it with another. Would've thought they'd have twigged from when the FLS originally started that nobody wanted the pointless fan interaction via email or any other form of interaction, they just wanted highlights.
As for no midweek shows, no different to the BBC, realistically the only way you'll likely be able to see highlights is Sky Sports News if you have it (fine if you're a Championship team otherwise it'll be hit and miss), your local news, the Thursday football league review type show on Sky Sports (if you have it) or the Sky Sports website if you have internet access (which will be a chore as you'll have to literally do it match by match on their website rather than just having action from all the midweek games in 1 video).
There's also the Football League club Player service, which gives you access to highlights of every game involving 89 of the 92 clubs (Fulham, Leeds and Accrington are the odd three out) that offer subscriptions to the service, as well as post-match and training ground interviews with players and managers and audio commentaries on all games played by these 89 clubs. I subscribed to the service for the first time last season and I thoroughly recommend it, especially now they've launched a new mobile app which includes the audio commentaries. It's a much safer bet for midweek league highlights than hoping Sky Sports News or your local news bulletins does a decent job. I will say SkySports.com offers a strong video highlights service though, and it's free.
On the Channel 5 highlights programme, a few thoughts. Just the name Football League Tonight makes it sound like it will be in the mould of BT Sport's midweek magazine shows (Football Tonight, Rugby Tonight, Boxing Tonight etc), which makes sense given that BT Sport's main production company Sunset+Vine will be producing and more than likely the studio used will be one within the BT Sport complex (as a recent Channel 5 boxing broadcast was).
I must admit I let out a sigh when I heard they'd be including a studio audience. I don't understand why the show has to be studio-based in the first place given that there seemingly won't be any punditry, but historically a studio-based panel didn't work on ITV's Premiership on Monday or on the Ian Payne-hosted version of Monday Night Football on Sky Sports in the years just after the turn of the century, so I don't see how this will be any different. Unless the studio set-up will just be observing the presenter doing the links in the background - but I don't see what the point would be in that.
One positive thing to read from that press release, which I didn't know, is that Mark Sharman is the executive producer for Channel 5. He was ITV's Head of Sport during The Championship's run, taking over in 2005 after it had launched. This is notable because he'd have been the person who signed off on the sensible decision to switch from the unpopular Championship-heavy format to showing all the goals from all the games, which the original incarnation of the show didn't deliver but for most is the key element of such a programme. So hopefully Sharman will maintain this commitment to showing every goal from every game throughout the new programme's run and he'll also be willing to knock ill-thought out ideas that don't work and prove unpopular (*cough* studio audience *cough*) on the head early on.
I'll be interested to see how the three promised Play-Off highlights shows are scheduled - will it be one for each of the three finals; one on the weekend of the first legs, one on the weekend of the second legs and one on the Bank Holiday Monday after the finals; or will it be a mix - one for the Championship final, one for the League One and Two finals and one after the semi-finals?
I've said this in other threads, but I would have liked to see Channel 5's old Thursday late night Football Night magazine programme revived. It was always a pretty decent magazine show with some good features despite a distinct lack of rights way back when, and seeing as they'll have midweek action to feature and Thursdays proved a good timeslot for ITV's old regional FL magazine shows in the 2000s, I thought it would have worked well.
I seem to remember that when Channel 5 broadcast their first live England game they had a live studio audience and decided it didn't really work and they didn't do it again.
I hope Channel 5 don't stick with this and as Stevvy said above if all they show is highlights and relevant manager interviews that would be the perfect package.
Apart from that, only other thing I can think of is either more Friday night games or a few Thursday games perhaps (or Monday's if there's no PL Monday fixture with no FL midweek round that same midweek).
I think it's almost certain there'll be a Friday night match virtually every week, there haven't been that many in recent seasons and there's certainly scope to get at least another dozen or so in there, if not more. That'll probably make up most of the extra games.
Oh god, a studio audience? Sorry but what is with everyone and everything seemingly requiring a studio audience. Will the show last 90mins? The show needs to last at least 2hrs just so we're no worse off than when it was on the BBC as we'll lose time to ad breaks and to pointless nonsense like talking to the audience when in reality nobody cares what Brian from Brighton who supports Bury thinks about how they did in their game that day. It's a complete waste of time.
The show was only 75 minutes on the Beeb and there won't be more than fifteen minutes of adverts in it, so there's no need for it to be any longer than ninety minutes. ITV used to do it in an hour. In addition if it lasts longer than ninety minutes you're clashing with Match of the Day and the Football League themselves have the wit to realise that a clash between Premier League highlights and League Two highlights is only going to end one way.
There have never been any midweek shows on terrestrial television, and there have never been midweek shows on Sky either - on the night. It's already tough enough to get everything edited by Saturday night when everything's finished at 5pm. On midweeks unless the show is on very, very late there'll be no chance of getting everything sorted.
You don't get proper highlights on Sky on Wednesday nights, you get the goals on Sky Sports News with a presenters' voice over because there's no time to do anything more elaborate. That's all very well on Sky Sports News but on terrestrial television it would make for an unbelievably boring show, of interest only to hardcore fans who can find the goals elsewhere and nobody else. If you want anything else it would have to be on Thursday, at which point, who cares?
Also as well we don't even get highlights of Monday night Premier League games on terrestrial TV which I'm sure most football fans would agree are a bit more prestigious. At the end of the day, football on terrestrial TV has to pay its way and while it may be a service for hardcore fans, if it doesn't engage a wider audience it can't justify its place there. I watch the highlights on Saturday night to keep up to date but I don't support a Football League club so any more extended coverage is of no real interest to me. I was happy enough with Football Focus showing me the interesting bits from midweek.
I must admit I let out a sigh when I heard they'd be including a studio audience. I don't understand why the show has to be studio-based in the first place given that there seemingly won't be any punditry, but historically a studio-based panel didn't work on ITV's Premiership on Monday or on the Ian Payne-hosted version of Monday Night Football on Sky Sports in the years just after the turn of the century, so I don't see how this will be any different.
The reason for it being studio-based, especially at that time on a Saturday night, is presumably so the studio bits can be extended or shortened depending on what happens in the games, which they wouldn't be able to do on a show done from the grounds without recording umpteen different links of varying lengths.
If you want anything else it would have to be on Thursday, at which point, who cares?...I was happy enough with Football Focus showing me the interesting bits from midweek.
The reason for it being studio-based, especially at that time on a Saturday night, is presumably so the studio bits can be extended or shortened depending on what happens in the games, which they wouldn't be able to do on a show done from the grounds without recording umpteen different links of varying lengths.
Well, ITV ran regional Football League magazine programmes on Thursday nights for a number of seasons during the tail end of their run holding the highlights rights, with Channel 5 also showing a football studio discussion on the same night in the form of Football Night. I can only speak for myself, but I'd care for a similar type of programme to those mentioned and the BBC's regional Late Kick Off shows - something that included (the best of the) midweek goals but wasn't entirely devoted to them, with some magazine features from Football League clubs and perhaps some studio chat about the Premier League if this was deemed necessary to command a wider audience.
You mention that you were "happy enough" with the Football League content on Football Focus, personally this is a programme I never watch as it is on at a time of the week when I'm unable to watch television (I imagine many match-going fans of Football League clubs are in the same boat), nor is it on the iPlayer (or really is the sort of programme they'd be a great demand for catch up of I imagine, given that it precedes a load of games and so becomes out-of-date very quickly). Out of interest did it often show much in the way of midweek action and/or lower division features? I have no idea, but it's not something that programme was known for doing. I think there is scope for something a bit more detailed and specific than Football Focus about the Football League, with regional ITV and BBC both doing a good job of such programmes in the recent past.
On the studio set-up for the main highlights show, I take your point about how live studio excepts can be useful for spacing the programme given the unpredictable nature of the length of each individual match edit. In which case, wouldn't it be better to have a bit of studio-based analysis to pad things out rather than no punditry but loads of fan contributions?
You mention that you were "happy enough" with the Football League content on Football Focus, personally this is a programme I never watch as it is on at a time of the week when I'm unable to watch television (I imagine many match-going fans of Football League clubs are in the same boat), nor is it on the iPlayer (or really is the sort of programme they'd be a great demand for catch up of I imagine, given that it precedes a load of games and so becomes out-of-date very quickly). Out of interest did it often show much in the way of midweek action and/or lower division features? I have no idea, but it's not something that programme was known for doing.
Well, you'd get all the significant goals from the midweek programme plus anything else interesting or funny that happened during the week, and in addition there is always (and presumably still will be, given they used to do it before they got the rights) at least one feature on a Football League club. That to me is more an advert for the Football League for casual fans (ie, the ones who haven't got Sky or regularly go to lower league games) than a very boring programme on a Wednesday night showing goals with little in the way of context. I know the timing isn't convenient for everyone but in the days of Saint and Greavsie it often used to be the slot for the first showing of top flight goals, plus it still gets a bigger audience than you would very late on a Thursday night.
On the studio set-up for the main highlights show, I take your point about how live studio excepts can be useful for spacing the programme given the unpredictable nature of the length of each individual match edit. In which case, wouldn't it be better to have a bit of studio-based analysis to pad things out rather than no punditry but loads of fan contributions?
Well, yes, and that's why it appears to be a contradiction in the press release to say "no lengthy punditry" and then talk up fan contributions because surely if there has to be talk in the programme it would be better coming from someone who knows what they're talking about and can string a sentence together, not just any old bloke in a replica shirt. But we'll have to wait and see what it's like on screen rather than based on a rather over-excited press release.
The differing number of midweek rounds for the Championship and L1/L2 won't be so Sky can show games from those leagues when it's an L1/L2 only midweek round (though they may choose to show some games those midweeks). Part of the reason they have less midweeks this season is because they're playing Easter weekend (both Saturday and Monday) whereas the Championship isn't due to the international break.
As the BBC have lost the FL rights, I doubt that this will happen this season.
Well, obviously. To me, the worst thing about the Beeb losing the rights is that Football League goals will now not run alongside Premier League goals on Football Focus, and people who turned on for the latter got the former as well. It was a good advert for the League.
With Channel 5, having the highlights one thing I wont miss is having to stay up till 1:10am on a Saturday Night, or even later, if MOTD was shown late due to Proms, Festival of Remembrance etc
I think a big problem with FL punditry is that it's an impossible task. A pundit can analyse a couple of featured games, but can't watch 30-odd. League 1 and League 2 games they'll be by and large winging it. The studio audience isn't an amazing idea from first glance, but getting managers, players on the phone/Skype is. Potentially other guests too (ie local journos maybe to discuss specific teams, or maybe a phono with a former player)
With Channel 5, having the highlights one thing I wont miss is having to stay up till 1:10am on a Saturday Night, or even later, if MOTD was shown late due to Proms, Festival of Remembrance etc
Well, you'd get all the significant goals from the midweek programme plus anything else interesting or funny that happened during the week, and in addition there is always (and presumably still will be, given they used to do it before they got the rights) at least one feature on a Football League club. That to me is more an advert for the Football League for casual fans (ie, the ones who haven't got Sky or regularly go to lower league games) than a very boring programme on a Wednesday night showing goals with little in the way of context. I know the timing isn't convenient for everyone but in the days of Saint and Greavsie it often used to be the slot for the first showing of top flight goals, plus it still gets a bigger audience than you would very late on a Thursday night.
Thanks for the synopsis of what Football Focus (used to) do in terms of Football League coverage. I don't think I watched FF once last season, but I've found the features and round-ups to make it a decent programme on the rare occasions I've seen it in previous seasons.
Clearly though you are looking at it from the point of view of a casual football fan, perhaps someone who relishes every bit of football available on terrestrial television but doesn't attend many games or watch matches live on subscription television. To the people who are looking for more than a mere advert for the Football League, the Football Focus offering is almost irrelevant given that the programme airs at a time when many are making their way to a match or are watching the live Championship fixture it goes head-to-head with. That it's not available on a catch-up service doesn't help either. I do think there is scope for something more than just the main weekend highlights programme for more dedicated fans, of which there are many. And who's to say that such a show would be lacking in context or be any more boring than a programme containing reams of Premier League punditry?
I've never met anyone who had any enthusiasm for the Football League offering on Football Focus, but the ITV Soccer Night and BBC Late Kick Off regional magazine programmes were popular among quite a few of the people who support league clubs that I know. Obviously Channel 5 aren't in a position to broadcast any regional content, but a national FL magazine show would be welcome. A 30 minute programme primarily devoted to league matters is more valuable than a small section of a more general show in an awkward timeslot from my perspective.
On a separate note - this wouldn't be a Digital Spy Football League TV thread without djfunnyman suggesting random Notts County games that Sky Sports could televise. I wonder which team he supports? ;-)
FAO djfunnyman,
with the football league stating that they take two years to compile the fixtures lists,
why do think the football league got
Nottingham Forest v Rotherham and
Notts County v Mansfield both on the same day (15 August) so wrong?
Comments
Scrapping lengthy punditry would've been good if they'd have said "all you'll see is highlights and relevant manager interviews". They've replaced 1 bad/pointless thing and replaced it with another. Would've thought they'd have twigged from when the FLS originally started that nobody wanted the pointless fan interaction via email or any other form of interaction, they just wanted highlights.
As for no midweek shows, no different to the BBC, realistically the only way you'll likely be able to see highlights is Sky Sports News if you have it (fine if you're a Championship team otherwise it'll be hit and miss), your local news, the Thursday football league review type show on Sky Sports (if you have it) or the Sky Sports website if you have internet access (which will be a chore as you'll have to literally do it match by match on their website rather than just having action from all the midweek games in 1 video).
On the Channel 5 highlights programme, a few thoughts. Just the name Football League Tonight makes it sound like it will be in the mould of BT Sport's midweek magazine shows (Football Tonight, Rugby Tonight, Boxing Tonight etc), which makes sense given that BT Sport's main production company Sunset+Vine will be producing and more than likely the studio used will be one within the BT Sport complex (as a recent Channel 5 boxing broadcast was).
I must admit I let out a sigh when I heard they'd be including a studio audience. I don't understand why the show has to be studio-based in the first place given that there seemingly won't be any punditry, but historically a studio-based panel didn't work on ITV's Premiership on Monday or on the Ian Payne-hosted version of Monday Night Football on Sky Sports in the years just after the turn of the century, so I don't see how this will be any different. Unless the studio set-up will just be observing the presenter doing the links in the background - but I don't see what the point would be in that.
One positive thing to read from that press release, which I didn't know, is that Mark Sharman is the executive producer for Channel 5. He was ITV's Head of Sport during The Championship's run, taking over in 2005 after it had launched. This is notable because he'd have been the person who signed off on the sensible decision to switch from the unpopular Championship-heavy format to showing all the goals from all the games, which the original incarnation of the show didn't deliver but for most is the key element of such a programme. So hopefully Sharman will maintain this commitment to showing every goal from every game throughout the new programme's run and he'll also be willing to knock ill-thought out ideas that don't work and prove unpopular (*cough* studio audience *cough*) on the head early on.
I'll be interested to see how the three promised Play-Off highlights shows are scheduled - will it be one for each of the three finals; one on the weekend of the first legs, one on the weekend of the second legs and one on the Bank Holiday Monday after the finals; or will it be a mix - one for the Championship final, one for the League One and Two finals and one after the semi-finals?
I've said this in other threads, but I would have liked to see Channel 5's old Thursday late night Football Night magazine programme revived. It was always a pretty decent magazine show with some good features despite a distinct lack of rights way back when, and seeing as they'll have midweek action to feature and Thursdays proved a good timeslot for ITV's old regional FL magazine shows in the 2000s, I thought it would have worked well.
I hope Channel 5 don't stick with this and as Stevvy said above if all they show is highlights and relevant manager interviews that would be the perfect package.
But i hope we dont get a social media type Lizzie Greenwood Hughes thing
I think it's almost certain there'll be a Friday night match virtually every week, there haven't been that many in recent seasons and there's certainly scope to get at least another dozen or so in there, if not more. That'll probably make up most of the extra games.
The show was only 75 minutes on the Beeb and there won't be more than fifteen minutes of adverts in it, so there's no need for it to be any longer than ninety minutes. ITV used to do it in an hour. In addition if it lasts longer than ninety minutes you're clashing with Match of the Day and the Football League themselves have the wit to realise that a clash between Premier League highlights and League Two highlights is only going to end one way.
There have never been any midweek shows on terrestrial television, and there have never been midweek shows on Sky either - on the night. It's already tough enough to get everything edited by Saturday night when everything's finished at 5pm. On midweeks unless the show is on very, very late there'll be no chance of getting everything sorted.
You don't get proper highlights on Sky on Wednesday nights, you get the goals on Sky Sports News with a presenters' voice over because there's no time to do anything more elaborate. That's all very well on Sky Sports News but on terrestrial television it would make for an unbelievably boring show, of interest only to hardcore fans who can find the goals elsewhere and nobody else. If you want anything else it would have to be on Thursday, at which point, who cares?
Also as well we don't even get highlights of Monday night Premier League games on terrestrial TV which I'm sure most football fans would agree are a bit more prestigious. At the end of the day, football on terrestrial TV has to pay its way and while it may be a service for hardcore fans, if it doesn't engage a wider audience it can't justify its place there. I watch the highlights on Saturday night to keep up to date but I don't support a Football League club so any more extended coverage is of no real interest to me. I was happy enough with Football Focus showing me the interesting bits from midweek.
The reason for it being studio-based, especially at that time on a Saturday night, is presumably so the studio bits can be extended or shortened depending on what happens in the games, which they wouldn't be able to do on a show done from the grounds without recording umpteen different links of varying lengths.
Well, ITV ran regional Football League magazine programmes on Thursday nights for a number of seasons during the tail end of their run holding the highlights rights, with Channel 5 also showing a football studio discussion on the same night in the form of Football Night. I can only speak for myself, but I'd care for a similar type of programme to those mentioned and the BBC's regional Late Kick Off shows - something that included (the best of the) midweek goals but wasn't entirely devoted to them, with some magazine features from Football League clubs and perhaps some studio chat about the Premier League if this was deemed necessary to command a wider audience.
You mention that you were "happy enough" with the Football League content on Football Focus, personally this is a programme I never watch as it is on at a time of the week when I'm unable to watch television (I imagine many match-going fans of Football League clubs are in the same boat), nor is it on the iPlayer (or really is the sort of programme they'd be a great demand for catch up of I imagine, given that it precedes a load of games and so becomes out-of-date very quickly). Out of interest did it often show much in the way of midweek action and/or lower division features? I have no idea, but it's not something that programme was known for doing. I think there is scope for something a bit more detailed and specific than Football Focus about the Football League, with regional ITV and BBC both doing a good job of such programmes in the recent past.
On the studio set-up for the main highlights show, I take your point about how live studio excepts can be useful for spacing the programme given the unpredictable nature of the length of each individual match edit. In which case, wouldn't it be better to have a bit of studio-based analysis to pad things out rather than no punditry but loads of fan contributions?
Well, you'd get all the significant goals from the midweek programme plus anything else interesting or funny that happened during the week, and in addition there is always (and presumably still will be, given they used to do it before they got the rights) at least one feature on a Football League club. That to me is more an advert for the Football League for casual fans (ie, the ones who haven't got Sky or regularly go to lower league games) than a very boring programme on a Wednesday night showing goals with little in the way of context. I know the timing isn't convenient for everyone but in the days of Saint and Greavsie it often used to be the slot for the first showing of top flight goals, plus it still gets a bigger audience than you would very late on a Thursday night.
Well, yes, and that's why it appears to be a contradiction in the press release to say "no lengthy punditry" and then talk up fan contributions because surely if there has to be talk in the programme it would be better coming from someone who knows what they're talking about and can string a sentence together, not just any old bloke in a replica shirt. But we'll have to wait and see what it's like on screen rather than based on a rather over-excited press release.
As could Notts v Plymouth on the 2nd international weekend, with Plymouth being one of the League's biggest clubs
The likely reason is they will be able to be shown on Sky ???
Sep 29
Nov 24
Mar 1
Is it that? That has happened on occasion and there are often midweek Championship games only
There are 10 midweek games in the Championship
Only 6 are scheduled in Leagues 1 and 2
So yes I would expect midweeks with only Championship
But not the other way round
I guess the only place on the BBC to see FL highlights now will be on your local news
Well, obviously. To me, the worst thing about the Beeb losing the rights is that Football League goals will now not run alongside Premier League goals on Football Focus, and people who turned on for the latter got the former as well. It was a good advert for the League.
Well, video recorders have existed for some time.
And it was always on the iPlayer as well.
Thanks for the synopsis of what Football Focus (used to) do in terms of Football League coverage. I don't think I watched FF once last season, but I've found the features and round-ups to make it a decent programme on the rare occasions I've seen it in previous seasons.
Clearly though you are looking at it from the point of view of a casual football fan, perhaps someone who relishes every bit of football available on terrestrial television but doesn't attend many games or watch matches live on subscription television. To the people who are looking for more than a mere advert for the Football League, the Football Focus offering is almost irrelevant given that the programme airs at a time when many are making their way to a match or are watching the live Championship fixture it goes head-to-head with. That it's not available on a catch-up service doesn't help either. I do think there is scope for something more than just the main weekend highlights programme for more dedicated fans, of which there are many. And who's to say that such a show would be lacking in context or be any more boring than a programme containing reams of Premier League punditry?
I've never met anyone who had any enthusiasm for the Football League offering on Football Focus, but the ITV Soccer Night and BBC Late Kick Off regional magazine programmes were popular among quite a few of the people who support league clubs that I know. Obviously Channel 5 aren't in a position to broadcast any regional content, but a national FL magazine show would be welcome. A 30 minute programme primarily devoted to league matters is more valuable than a small section of a more general show in an awkward timeslot from my perspective.
On a separate note - this wouldn't be a Digital Spy Football League TV thread without djfunnyman suggesting random Notts County games that Sky Sports could televise. I wonder which team he supports? ;-)
Will Channel 5 pronounce Walsall correctly?
with the football league stating that they take two years to compile the fixtures lists,
why do think the football league got
Nottingham Forest v Rotherham and
Notts County v Mansfield both on the same day (15 August) so wrong?