Looks like things are going to heat up a few notches. Greece economy minister has confirmed now to the FT they're not making their bundled IMF repayment tomorrow as was promised.
Greece's bailout programme expires midnight tonight. So with Greece not in a bailout programme and defaulting on the IMF, the ECB may have no choice but to withdraw all support to Greek banks.
We could see all out mayhem before the Greeks get to vote in their referendum. This is turning out to be one massive clusterfuk by Syriza and Tsipras.
If anything positive can be taken from this. It's that the EU's four freedoms, that they hold as non negotiable, are totally open for negotiation. If the Greeks can have capital controls then the UK can have border controls.
What guarantees are the ECB and EU getting that Greece can repay the money being loaned? Surely you want the country to be full of investments and job creation in order to recover the money you will loan? All Syriza have done is rehire everyone at ERT - while the hospitals are out of medicine. All the banks are asking from greece is higher taxes - how will that stimulate growth for them to get their money back?
What deranged bank would want to lend to a far left government like Greece's?
If a person lends to an untrustworthy friend and the money is lost, you have to deal with the loss. No government is going to fight your corner. However, when a bank loans money to an insolvent country, why is it suddenly up to the European leaders to enforce the loan on behalf of the banks?
The banks made a bad decision lending to Greece - they should take the loss and move on.
meanwhile on the other side of the ocean Puerto Rico has announced that it cannot afford to repay its $72 billion debt.
Puerto Rico’s governor, saying he needs to pull the island out of a “death spiral,” has concluded that the commonwealth cannot pay its roughly $72 billion in debts, an admission that will probably have wide-reaching financial repercussions.
The governor, Alejandro García Padilla, and senior members of his staff said in an interview last week that they would probably seek significant concessions from as many as all of the island’s creditors, which could include deferring some debt payments for as long as five years or extending the timetable for repayment.
“The debt is not payable,” Mr. García Padilla said. “There is no other option. I would love to have an easier option. This is not politics, this is math.”
The referendum is a perfect example of how Tsipras wants to cover his ass. By pretending the people have the final vote, he and his government won’t have to take ANY responsibility for its actions. Tsipras pretends this is ‘democracy at work’, but it goes further than that. The modern democracy calls for the people to elect officials to represent their interests and to make decisions on their behalf and to be held accountable for their decisions.
By pushing for a referendum, Tsipras – and Syriza – are trying to avoid any responsibility, and even though they know that Greece will need to cave and accept the bailout terms imposed by the triumvirate (if it wants to stay part of the Eurozone), they don’t want to admit so as they would be breaking their promises to the Greek people.
capital controls and semi-panic situation is exactly what Tsipras, Varoufakis and others wanted to create. They could not take the decision to accept the Euro-proposal themselves without being lynched upon their return to Athens. But by making the daily life so incredibly difficult for its citizens it’s actually forcing them to vote ‘yes’ in the upcoming referendum. A referendum about a proposal which isn’t even on the table anymore.
The question the Greeks need to answer next Sunday is whether or not they agree to the requirements and demands by the institutions as proposed on June 25th, and that’s weird as this question is excluding all progress made on June 26 and 27th where the European institutions have accepted some of Greece’s plans such as the VAT-increase for tourists.
Tsipras is hiding behind the ‘voice of the people’, but by imposing capital controls and by shutting down the banks he’s pushing people towards a choice they might regret later on.
But hey, meanwhile you get free bus rides in Athens. Socialism at its best.
he thinks he can spend someone elses money forever and they wont say enough is enough youre on your own
nicola sturgeon take note
As I pointed out in a previous post, it was a right Greek government that spent other peoples money way beyond the ability of Greece to repay. And it was French and German banks who lent the money to a country everyone knew was a bad credit risk, and it's they who demand tax payers money, from other EU tax payers if Greece can't/won't repay. And the EU/IMF are fighting like hell for the bankers cause.
What guarantees are the ECB and EU getting that Greece can repay the money being loaned? Surely you want the country to be full of investments and job creation in order to recover the money you will loan? All Syriza have done is rehire everyone at ERT - while the hospitals are out of medicine. All the banks are asking from greece is higher taxes - how will that stimulate growth for them to get their money back?
What deranged bank would want to lend to a far left government like Greece's?
If a person lends to an untrustworthy friend and the money is lost, you have to deal with the loss. No government is going to fight your corner. However, when a bank loans money to an insolvent country, why is it suddenly up to the European leaders to enforce the loan on behalf of the banks?
The banks made a bad decision lending to Greece - they should take the loss and move on.
Looks like things are going to heat up a few notches. Greece economy minister has confirmed now to the FT they're not making their bundled IMF repayment tomorrow as was promised.
Greece's bailout programme expires midnight tonight. So with Greece not in a bailout programme and defaulting on the IMF, the ECB may have no choice but to withdraw all support to Greek banks.
We could see all out mayhem before the Greeks get to vote in their referendum. This is turning out to be one massive clusterfuk by Syriza and Tsipras.
It's close to mayhem on the markets. In post 770 I said the euro would fall in value today, and European stock markets, including London, would fall to. I said to particularly look for falls in the share price of French and German banks, as they could be insolvent if Greece defaults. All this has happened, with the French and German stock markets taking a hammering, down by 10%. And this is only the start of the drama. If Greece votes no on Sunday, there'll really be mayhem, and it could affect us. If investors stop buying bonds of other indebted EU countries then all hell will let loose and we could see a return to the thirties. Or worse. This is the terrible risk the EU/IMF is ready to take to ensure we all get the message that we must pay for the bankers folly, while they are exempt from paying anything. You meekly accepted that in Ireland, we'll see if the Greeks are made of sterner stuff.
It's close to mayhem on the markets. In post 770 I said the euro would fall in value today, and European stock markets, including London, would fall to. I said to particularly look for falls in the share price of French and German banks, as they could be insolvent if Greece defaults. All this has happened, with the French and German stock markets taking a hammering, down by 10%. And this is only the start of the drama. If Greece votes no on Sunday, there'll really be mayhem, and it could affect us. If investors stop buying bonds of other indebted EU countries then all hell will let loose and we could see a return to the thirties. Or worse. This is the terrible risk the EU/IMF is ready to take to ensure we all get the message that we must pay for the bankers folly, while they are exempt from paying anything. You meekly accepted that in Ireland, we'll see if the Greeks are made of sterner stuff.
There are worse things than defaulting. At the moment the interest on the loans are preventing the Greeks from even attempting to sort their economy out. They have to leave the EU or they will be slowly suffocated by the greed.
Nobody has made a profit on Greece. They already forgave half their debt just a few years ago, so loaning them money has already been a huge loss for everyone. The interest they're paying is around 3-4%, which is quite cheap, especially for a terrible credit risk like Greece. The amount of interest charged is nowhere near the amount of free money that Greece has been given. Really, from a pure profit standpoint, nobody should have been willing to lend to Greece, and if they did it should have been at a much higher rate to compensate for the very real chance that they'll never pay any of it back.
Yes it's a fairly meaningless construct used by socialists to apportion blame
Greeks ills, now and in the past, are Historical and cultural it's rather meaningless to lay blame to a political ideal just because it suits the agenda.
The fact is that Greece has in modern times, political parties, who have declared themselves right wing and left wing who have all been part it the the problem.
Yes it's a fairly meaningless construct used by socialists to apportion blame
New Democracy say their a right of centre party, as do our Conservatives. Is Cameron a socialist? As for apportioning blame, a number of posters in this thread speak of Syriza, well, snipe at them, as if they caused the Greek crisis. They only took office in January, but to the fanatics their to blame for everything.
Greeks ills, now and in the past, are Historical and cultural it's rather meaningless to lay blame to a political ideal just because it suits the agenda.
The fact is that Greece has in modern times, political parties, who have declared themselves right wing and left wing who have all been part it the the problem.
Nobody has made a profit on Greece. They already forgave half their debt just a few years ago, so loaning them money has already been a huge loss for everyone. The interest they're paying is around 3-4%, which is quite cheap, especially for a terrible credit risk like Greece. The amount of interest charged is nowhere near the amount of free money that Greece has been given. Really, from a pure profit standpoint, nobody should have been willing to lend to Greece, and if they did it should have been at a much higher rate to compensate for the very real chance that they'll never pay any of it back.
Bankers made a profit. For years they lent Greece money knowing it was a disaster waiting to happen. They kept lending because while Greece was repaying each year the banks profits were boosted and they got a big bonus, and when it went pear shaped, no problem, they'd made their fortune, the peasants would be left to fight over who pays the bill. How the bankers must laugh at the partisan twits, many on this forum, who say it's all the fault of socialists, or capitalism. It's neither, it's simple theft by bankers, who make up the biggest criminal gangs in the world.
Comments
Trillion? You mean Billion I take it. Lol. They would really up shite street if it were Trillion lol.
I guess it makes no difference whether it's billion or trillion when you're skint.
Sorry - billion!
Trillions are what the big boys like the UK owe.
Greece's bailout programme expires midnight tonight. So with Greece not in a bailout programme and defaulting on the IMF, the ECB may have no choice but to withdraw all support to Greek banks.
We could see all out mayhem before the Greeks get to vote in their referendum. This is turning out to be one massive clusterfuk by Syriza and Tsipras.
What guarantees are the ECB and EU getting that Greece can repay the money being loaned? Surely you want the country to be full of investments and job creation in order to recover the money you will loan? All Syriza have done is rehire everyone at ERT - while the hospitals are out of medicine. All the banks are asking from greece is higher taxes - how will that stimulate growth for them to get their money back?
What deranged bank would want to lend to a far left government like Greece's?
If a person lends to an untrustworthy friend and the money is lost, you have to deal with the loss. No government is going to fight your corner. However, when a bank loans money to an insolvent country, why is it suddenly up to the European leaders to enforce the loan on behalf of the banks?
The banks made a bad decision lending to Greece - they should take the loss and move on.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/business/dealbook/puerto-ricos-governor-says-islands-debts-are-not-payable.html?action=click&contentCollection=DealBook&module=RelatedCoverage®ion=Marginalia&pgtype=article
Is the domino effect looming?
By pushing for a referendum, Tsipras – and Syriza – are trying to avoid any responsibility, and even though they know that Greece will need to cave and accept the bailout terms imposed by the triumvirate (if it wants to stay part of the Eurozone), they don’t want to admit so as they would be breaking their promises to the Greek people.
capital controls and semi-panic situation is exactly what Tsipras, Varoufakis and others wanted to create. They could not take the decision to accept the Euro-proposal themselves without being lynched upon their return to Athens. But by making the daily life so incredibly difficult for its citizens it’s actually forcing them to vote ‘yes’ in the upcoming referendum. A referendum about a proposal which isn’t even on the table anymore.
The question the Greeks need to answer next Sunday is whether or not they agree to the requirements and demands by the institutions as proposed on June 25th, and that’s weird as this question is excluding all progress made on June 26 and 27th where the European institutions have accepted some of Greece’s plans such as the VAT-increase for tourists.
Tsipras is hiding behind the ‘voice of the people’, but by imposing capital controls and by shutting down the banks he’s pushing people towards a choice they might regret later on.
But hey, meanwhile you get free bus rides in Athens. Socialism at its best.
As I pointed out in a previous post, it was a right Greek government that spent other peoples money way beyond the ability of Greece to repay. And it was French and German banks who lent the money to a country everyone knew was a bad credit risk, and it's they who demand tax payers money, from other EU tax payers if Greece can't/won't repay. And the EU/IMF are fighting like hell for the bankers cause.
Precisely! The bail out is anti-capitalism.
Right of the left.
Left of what , exactly ?
It's close to mayhem on the markets. In post 770 I said the euro would fall in value today, and European stock markets, including London, would fall to. I said to particularly look for falls in the share price of French and German banks, as they could be insolvent if Greece defaults. All this has happened, with the French and German stock markets taking a hammering, down by 10%. And this is only the start of the drama. If Greece votes no on Sunday, there'll really be mayhem, and it could affect us. If investors stop buying bonds of other indebted EU countries then all hell will let loose and we could see a return to the thirties. Or worse. This is the terrible risk the EU/IMF is ready to take to ensure we all get the message that we must pay for the bankers folly, while they are exempt from paying anything. You meekly accepted that in Ireland, we'll see if the Greeks are made of sterner stuff.
Do you not know the difference between political left and right?
ECB = CTRL P
Nobody has made a profit on Greece. They already forgave half their debt just a few years ago, so loaning them money has already been a huge loss for everyone. The interest they're paying is around 3-4%, which is quite cheap, especially for a terrible credit risk like Greece. The amount of interest charged is nowhere near the amount of free money that Greece has been given. Really, from a pure profit standpoint, nobody should have been willing to lend to Greece, and if they did it should have been at a much higher rate to compensate for the very real chance that they'll never pay any of it back.
https://mobile.twitter.com/tsipras_eu
Mr Tsipras sounding Rooseveltian again.
He is a very brave man is all I can say - we will fight them in the tavernas and on the beaches and we shall never surrender! Go Alexis.
The fact is that Greece has in modern times, political parties, who have declared themselves right wing and left wing who have all been part it the the problem.
New Democracy say their a right of centre party, as do our Conservatives. Is Cameron a socialist? As for apportioning blame, a number of posters in this thread speak of Syriza, well, snipe at them, as if they caused the Greek crisis. They only took office in January, but to the fanatics their to blame for everything.
Excellent post!
Bankers made a profit. For years they lent Greece money knowing it was a disaster waiting to happen. They kept lending because while Greece was repaying each year the banks profits were boosted and they got a big bonus, and when it went pear shaped, no problem, they'd made their fortune, the peasants would be left to fight over who pays the bill. How the bankers must laugh at the partisan twits, many on this forum, who say it's all the fault of socialists, or capitalism. It's neither, it's simple theft by bankers, who make up the biggest criminal gangs in the world.