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DWP: Death Figures Finally Released
Betty Swollax
Posts: 599 Forum Member
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The Tories have finally released the total - burying it under immigration figures - after 250,000 furious people signed a petition
More than 2,500 sick and disabled benefit claimants have died after being found 'fit for work' in just two years, shock figures reveal today.
2,650 people died after being found fit for work
More than 2,500 sick and disabled benefit claimants have died after being found 'fit for work' in just two years, shock figures reveal today.
2,650 people died after being found fit for work
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The only reasonable conclusion is that they were NOT in fact "fit for work". Many will have been desperately unwell when found "fit for work".
An investigation as to whether government actions also pushed them to their deaths will probably have to wait until we have a government not containing Iain Duncan Smith or any other right-wing zealot.
The Conservatives should really have gotten rid of Iain Duncan Smith years ago, he's a complete nutcase and liability.
How many people the DWP murdered you mean? Or drove to their deaths with chronic and illegal abuse?
I very much doubt any government is ever going to publish such an opinion...
Unless you have something else in mind.
nice try at deflection but i dont think that was the main point being made
i think what these figures do is further undermine the credibility of the WCA process if someone is being found "fit for work" and then pops their clogs
That figure of over 90,000 is truly shocking. To get an idea of what that number of people look like just imagine Wembley packed to capacity on FA Cup final and that is the amount of dead we are talking about.
This could be you in the future, or a close friend or relative.
Seriously ill? You aren't making big business any profits so get lost and die.
The article gives several examples most or perhaps all are total nonsense. Eg Guy catches pneumonia AFTER any assessment and unrelated to medical condition at the time and is something you can recover from anyway. Doesn't sound that he was that incapable of work at the time of the assessment.
What is the expectation for this specific demographic and how does it compare with the observed statistics? Until that question is answered, regardless of the complete evilness of the tories, nobody should be accusing anyone of murder.
As a complete shocker, many apparently healthy people have been observed over the years popping their clogs entirely unexpectedly without any assistance from the government.
Its not really a scandal, everybody dies.
predictable
however you can correct me if i am wrong , but if we are in agreement this identifies a flaw in the process then surely the way to improve the process is to ensure the views of qualified and experienced medical professionals are not over-ruled by less qualified staff working for someone like ATOS and that the overall process was not being made MORE punitive meaning more people are likely to be added to this "statistic"
Total ESA with a WCA decision of “fit for work” who died within 14 days of their benefit being stopped 2,380
Total receiving ESA who had completed an appeal following a WCA decision of “fit for work” who died 1,340
Total who were assessed as Work Related Activity Group (expected to take appropriate measures to return to work in the future), who died within a year of their WCA decision 7,200
But according to the report
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/456359/mortality-statistics-esa-ib-sda.pdf
If you're 6 weeks away from death, you are not fit for work.
This is why they are known as the nasty party.
https://fullfact.org/economy/dwp_publishes_benefit_claimant_deaths-47572
No doubt people from both sides will be cherry picking figures but, as Fullfact say, great care should be exercised when interpreting the figures.
The definitive conclusions that I have drawn are that there is clearly a serious issue with a significant number of people being incorrectly assessed, that this is an issue that existed before the chaos caused by Duncan Smith, and that Duncan Smith, who firstly denied that such figures are collated and then procrastinated over publishing them, is not "fit for work"!
I certainly think that we need an urgent independent review of the WCA and the sanctions regime. I don't think there is any doubt that there are major problems that are causing suffering to many people. I am sure that these problems have been a contributory factor in many deaths but I think it is irresponsible for anyone to say that the DWP or Duncan Smith were "the" cause of these deaths. The main cause will, invariably, be the underlying health condition although that does not excuse the behaviour of the DWP who have blighted the final days of many seriously ill people. We certainly need more empathy and compassion in the system that deals with seriously ill and disabled people.
if thats the kind of emotive language you want to use, then yes. how many? and isn't murder when you delibarately set out to kill someone? i doubt very much that that is the aim of the DWP. so, it'll be zero then, surely?
the whole point of the OP (in my opinion) is to insunuate that all these people have died purely because of the decisions and actions of the DWP. to me, anyone who uses someones death for political gain, is lower than a snakes belly in a wheel rut.
sorry but you will have to point out to me where the OP said that as all i can see is a reference to the statistics of people dieing after being found "fit for work" which implies a problem with them having been found "fit for work"
Nobody asked because Labour openly published the figures and didn't try to deny they existed as the Tories did.
The report chooses to show a graph and omit the lower figures for all the Labour years except 2003 a high which has 45,220 deaths and splits the figure for 2013 into three totals, those three totals for 2013 add up to 73,870.
The report then goes on to use age standardization death to try and show deaths declining, but if you look at the general population age standardized death rate the disparity between claimants and the general population death rates has increased. Using age standardized death rates in 2003 the highest year for Labour given in the report IB claimants were 2.75x more likely to die than the general public, in 2013 it was 4.3x more likely to die IB, 4.1x more likely to die ESA claimants.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/456240/mortality-statistics-out-of-work-benefit-claimants-summary.pdf
Looking at the above report the references in the FOI report I linked to in my early post which cites this report, are actually misleading.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/456359/mortality-statistics-esa-ib-sda.pdf
Could you provide a link showing that everybody dies within 6 weeks of being passed fit for work please.
Whaaaat! All I did was copy and paste a couple of the headlines that I linked to. I made no other remarks, comments, personal insinuations or assumptions whatsoever. >:(
Don't shoot the messenger!!
Hey you have a point. Let's save a ton of cash by doing away with hospitals. After all everyone dies
From the wording in the report the deaths were of people who were still receiving ESA, IB or SDA at the date of their death. The reason for "flowing off" ESA would have been their death. That suggests that although some were found "fit for work", they were still receiving ESA as the decision was under appeal.