You've got to be kidding me! "Not 100% sure if it is correct" Well there you have it. The sort of evidence that is used these days: "not 100%".
In the same article:
Seems like more people feel the opposite of wanting this county to stop welcoming immigrants.
Agreed, certainly up here that seems to be what Im hearing. The only negative is on the DM website comments, but that's not terribly surprising. There are so many collections and shelters being made available for the outcome of this. I just wish more could be done for these poor people
Agreed, certainly up here that seems to be what Im hearing. The only negative is on the DM website comments, but that's not terribly surprising. There are so many collections and shelters being made available for the outcome of this. I just wish more could be done for these poor people
You are incorrect.
Try reading the Independent comments, even the Guardian comments - the vast, vast majority of posts on those comments are most certainly NOT in favour of letting more and more migrants.
When the picture of the drowned child came to light the Independent even closed their forums because the posts weren't going the way they wanted.
Try reading the Independent comments, even the Guardian comments - the vast, vast majority of posts on those comments are most certainly NOT in favour of letting more and more migrants.
When the picture of the drowned child came to light the Independent even closed their forums because the posts weren't going the way they wanted.
That's quite appalling, I personally don't read any newspaper, only the BBC and even their reporting has been dubious.
That photograph will go down as one of the most iconic, on a par with the Vietnamese girl. Future generations will judge us on how we dealt with this situation and I for one would like my grandchildren to be proud, much as I was of my grandparents for housing the homeless of the Blitz
That's quite appalling, I personally don't read any newspaper, only the BBC and even their reporting has been dubious.
That photograph will go down as one of the most iconic, on a par with the Vietnamese girl. Future generations will judge us on how we dealt with this situation and I for one would like my grandchildren to be proud, much as I was of my grandparents for housing the homeless of the Blitz
You can be proud. The UK is one of a few countries who constantly provide aid and funding to areas that need it. We have invested billions over the years to make refugee camps safe and habitable. OK, the camps aren't perfect and perhaps they are somewhat unimaginable to us, we who live in contrasting luxury, but they are safe and have saved the lives of millions of people. You can be proud because the UK has decided to settle people from these camps into our society - some permanently, some temporarily. You can be proud because the UK navy is rescuing hundreds of people stranded in the med in dangerously overloaded boats, and what the media don't tell us is that despite people still tragically drowning, thousands more would drown if our navy wasn't patrolling the waters. You can be proud because unlike the irresponsible act of Germany, we are discouraging migrants to risk their lives and instead urge them to go the camps so we can help them.
There are just so many things to feel proud about with regards to what WE are doing. There are far more solutions to tackle in this crisis than just taking in thousands of people we wouldn't be able to cope with - because once you start the precedent of accepting thousands and thousands, once you are full, how do you tell the next lot they're not welcome?
I believe the UK is one of a few countries who have got the response absolutely spot on.
Asylum seekers are never housed in "condemned" houses. They are often placed in bedsits run by exploitative landlords of which councils rarely monitor the properties provided. However, many are given houses that, according to refugeecouncilUK, are not wanted by the British (or, in reality, are often NOT offered to the British in the first place).
I do think many private landlords who provide appalling living conditions should be brought to shame because, asylum seeker or otherwise, no one deserves to be living in squalid conditions.
They are more often than not, housed in ex social housing which is awaiting demolition or has been closed down and not offered to people on the housing list.
But agreed, that no one should be being housed in squalid conditions.
Detention centres are primarily used to accommodate migrants who have been refused asylum or refugee status in order to prevent them from "disappearing". New applicants are very rartely put into one. I have seen new asylum seeker applicants in Reading back in the 1990's put up in community centres and provided with bedding and basic essentials. They were allocated appropriate housing based on their needs and most were given flats in Southcote or houses in Whitley Wood.
I meant reception centres, sorry. By the way, the 90s is a long time back in terms of government provision
I completely agree. We really need controlled immigration now as it's out of hand. After all, we can't build a city the size of Leicester every year!
The numbers coming here are also not linear to the number of new jobs being created and the number available.
The Guardian (of all newspapers) recently reported that the number of British unemployed has risen as employers look to take on cheaper labour through the plentiful supply of immigrants now here.
To top this off there was a programme on the BBC last week that stated that many white collar jobs are now being automated by computers - meaning as time goes on more and more jobs done by huams will be automated.
Do we really need many more coming here when:
a) The number of British born people out of work is increasing
b) Those above are finding it harder and harder to find work, with opportunities scuppered by immigrants prepared to work for less.
c) With increasing automation the number of jobs will slowly decrease.
The numbers coming here are also not linear to the number of new jobs being created and the number available.
The Guardian (of all newspapers) recently reported that the number of British unemployed has risen as employers look to take on cheaper labour through the plentiful supply of immigrants now here.
To top this off there was a programme on the BBC last week that stated that many white collar jobs are now being automated by computers - meaning as time goes on more and more jobs done by huams will be automated.
Do we really need many more coming here when:
a) The number of British born people out of work is increasing
b) Those above are finding it harder and harder to find work, with opportunities scuppered by immigrants prepared to work for less.
c) With increasing automation the number of jobs will slowly decrease.
You're right of course, automation will do away with so many of our current jobs.... so what the hell is Merkel up to? We're all aware that Germany's birthrate is low, perhaps she can see a pensions deficit looming, but that isn't going to be reversed by a lot of largely unemployed people is it. Also, if it is all about needing people why didn't they offer to accept young Greek or Spaniards?
What is really behind this open borders and letting these people flood Germany?
Perhaps then people should write to their MPs prior to the debate to point out that they would have preferred to sign a more carefully and reasonably worded petition but were denied the opportunity because all other non racist ones were rejected. Which in itself, to my mind, shows a complete disregard for the reasons this process was set up in the first place and is worthy of debate itself. Just exactly why reasonably worded petitions rejected because no reasonable person could sign this one without some moral compromise.
You know, this actually sounds like a good idea. I might just do that.
They are more often than not, housed in ex social housing which is awaiting demolition or has been closed down and not offered to people on the housing list.
But agreed, that no one should be being housed in squalid conditions.
I don't think so in this crisis. I watched a Govt guy on TV saying that the only homes they wanted for Migrants were houses which were ready to rent now and fit for the purpose.
The numbers coming here are also not linear to the number of new jobs being created and the number available.
The Guardian (of all newspapers) recently reported that the number of British unemployed has risen as employers look to take on cheaper labour through the plentiful supply of immigrants now here.
To top this off there was a programme on the BBC last week that stated that many white collar jobs are now being automated by computers - meaning as time goes on more and more jobs done by huams will be automated.
Do we really need many more coming here when:
a) The number of British born people out of work is increasing
b) Those above are finding it harder and harder to find work, with opportunities scuppered by immigrants prepared to work for less.
c) With increasing automation the number of jobs will slowly decrease.
You make some good points.
I'm surprised with the Guardian though, as recently I have also seen a couple of articles that were more balanced than the usual hard left articles. I wonder if this is a changing trend with them, or just a few anomalies?
The NHS is about to collapse under the strain by all accounts. Can we put up with more migration? The benefits bill is never going to go down either more coming in all the time claiming even if they are working
They are more often than not, housed in ex social housing which is awaiting demolition or has been closed down and not offered to people on the housing list.
But agreed, that no one should be being housed in squalid conditions.
OK, lets take that at face value.
So why over the last twenty years at least, have we seen so many social housing areas, flats/houses being occupied by migrants?
Decent places that thousands of those on the housing list would be happy to occupy?
It's a kind of deliberate lie that's sold, perhaps iffy accomodation for a short while then top of the ist when they are moved out.
Long term the results are the same, social housing is being and has been allocated to migrants.
Why do you find it so hard to accept the evidence that is all around?
I'm surprised with the Guardian though, as recently I have also seen a couple of articles that were more balanced than the usual hard left articles. I wonder if this is a changing trend with them, or just a few anomalies?
you expect to find "hard left" politics in the Guardian?? You must be to the right of Attila the Hun in that case. Read the Morning Star if you want to read hard left anything
you expect to find "hard left" politics in the Guardian?? You must be to the right of Attila the Hun in that case. Read the Morning Star if you want to read hard left anything
The NHS is about to collapse under the strain by all accounts. Can we put up with more migration? The benefits bill is never going to go down either more coming in all the time claiming even if they are working
Unless I'm mistaken, these migrants won't be claiming any benefits. EU migrants are allowed to claim some benefits, but we have more Brits abroad claiming benefits than we have non Brits claiming here.
Want to help the NHS? Well voting Tory or UKIP is the worst thing you can do. The Tories are dismantling the NHS via privatisation and under funding. We can afford to invest more into it, as austerity has been pretty much proven to stunt economic growth. However that would mean less selling off to their buddies on the cheap.
It's all pretty irrelevant anyway. A UK government petition has officially never accomplished anything.
Some of the bigger petitions from present and past (getting over 100,000 signatures) have been:
Full disclosure of Hillsborough documents - I don't think this has happened?
Legalise cannabis - cannabis has not been legalised.
Reduce fuel duty - fuel duty has not been lowered.
Put Babar Ahmad on trial in the UK - he was put on trial in the US.
Debate a vote of no confidence in Jeremy Hunt - the 'debate' happened but it wasn't really about Hunt.
Benjamin Netanyahhu to be arrested - they wont arrest him.
Convicted London rioters should lose all benefits - they didn't lose their benefits.
The whole thing is meaningless.
let's have some realism here....
Hillsborough - I personally can never see this ever ending to everyones "satisfaction", there are people in Liverpool who genuinely believe it was a Government-sponsored conspiracy, there is already another inquest ongoing, yet there are still constant calls for "justice" when no-one can actually explain what their expectation of "justice" would consist of (all serving senior officials from that fateful day are either retired or dead by now!) so what can any Government actually do to close this off once and for all? there will never be "true" appeasement of the masses for this, it's too emotive
Legalise cannabis - I can see this potentially happening depending on what happens in America, time will tell!
fuel duty - fuel prices have gone down in real terms, but fuel duty will not be dropped unless it's a manifesto pledge from a successful Government
benefit cuts for convicted criminals - considering the ECHR have declared that the UK's position that convicts should not be unilaterally restricted from voting rights, how will any Government agree to "discriminate" against a specific portion of London rioters without facing a challenge in the ECHR?
I personally cannot stand petitions about an individual in the public eye, there can never be a valid debate about a specific individual, MPs would need to reveal their own bias/thoughts on the individual, and that threatens the concept of fair debate and discussion if personal bias (and public perception based on their vote) is involved
I think the government we have will be sympathetic to the aims of the petition.
I'm sure there are some who will, but then again they risk the ire of Germany and other EU nations if they do come out in support of the nature of the petition, so I can honestly say I think it's going to go against the "aim" if/when put to a vote
which is a shame, as I guess the argument will be based on the very poor wording, so any MP who "wanted" to support the aim, but didn't want to be associated with something that could be viewed (by the press) as covertly racist, so the wording may undo the chances of it being taken too seriously
Hillsborough - I personally can never see this ever ending to everyones "satisfaction", there are people in Liverpool who genuinely believe it was a Government-sponsored conspiracy, there is already another inquest ongoing, yet there are still constant calls for "justice" when no-one can actually explain what their expectation of "justice" would consist of (all serving senior officials from that fateful day are either retired or dead by now!) so what can any Government actually do to close this off once and for all? there will never be "true" appeasement of the masses for this, it's too emotive
Legalise cannabis - I can see this potentially happening depending on what happens in America, time will tell!
fuel duty - fuel prices have gone down in real terms, but fuel duty will not be dropped unless it's a manifesto pledge from a successful Government
benefit cuts for convicted criminals - considering the ECHR have declared that the UK's position that convicts should not be unilaterally restricted from voting rights, how will any Government agree to "discriminate" against a specific portion of London rioters without facing a challenge in the ECHR?
I personally cannot stand petitions about an individual in the public eye, there can never be a valid debate about a specific individual, MPs would need to reveal their own bias/thoughts on the individual, and that threatens the concept of fair debate and discussion if personal bias (and public perception based on their vote) is involved
All that aside though I stand by the point that a UK government e-petition has never accomplished anything. They were the biggest and the most publicised, and if they could produce no effect, nothing will.
Germany has become a ticking time bomb if it keeps going down that dangerous road led by crazy and reckless Angela merkel. Too bad it'd be way too late by the time enough people finally wake up and put a stop to it. Only time will tell.
All that aside though I stand by the point that a UK government e-petition has never accomplished anything. They were the biggest and the most publicised, and if they could produce no effect, nothing will.
fair point, it's true that virtually no e-petition has accomplished anything, probably because e-petitions rely on people taking the time to check what they are about and raise awareness via social media
I wish this one could have been superseded by a better worded document, at least to give the "spirit" of the petition a fair chance
I'm sure there are some who will, but then again they risk the ire of Germany and other EU nations if they do come out in support of the nature of the petition, so I can honestly say I think it's going to go against the "aim" if/when put to a vote
which is a shame, as I guess the argument will be based on the very poor wording, so any MP who "wanted" to support the aim, but didn't want to be associated with something that could be viewed (by the press) as covertly racist, so the wording may undo the chances of it being taken too seriously
Probably so, but I don't think Cameron cares anyway. We are moving to a point where giant fracture lines are appearing in the EU.
Comments
Agreed, certainly up here that seems to be what Im hearing. The only negative is on the DM website comments, but that's not terribly surprising. There are so many collections and shelters being made available for the outcome of this. I just wish more could be done for these poor people
You are incorrect.
Try reading the Independent comments, even the Guardian comments - the vast, vast majority of posts on those comments are most certainly NOT in favour of letting more and more migrants.
When the picture of the drowned child came to light the Independent even closed their forums because the posts weren't going the way they wanted.
That's quite appalling, I personally don't read any newspaper, only the BBC and even their reporting has been dubious.
That photograph will go down as one of the most iconic, on a par with the Vietnamese girl. Future generations will judge us on how we dealt with this situation and I for one would like my grandchildren to be proud, much as I was of my grandparents for housing the homeless of the Blitz
You can be proud. The UK is one of a few countries who constantly provide aid and funding to areas that need it. We have invested billions over the years to make refugee camps safe and habitable. OK, the camps aren't perfect and perhaps they are somewhat unimaginable to us, we who live in contrasting luxury, but they are safe and have saved the lives of millions of people. You can be proud because the UK has decided to settle people from these camps into our society - some permanently, some temporarily. You can be proud because the UK navy is rescuing hundreds of people stranded in the med in dangerously overloaded boats, and what the media don't tell us is that despite people still tragically drowning, thousands more would drown if our navy wasn't patrolling the waters. You can be proud because unlike the irresponsible act of Germany, we are discouraging migrants to risk their lives and instead urge them to go the camps so we can help them.
There are just so many things to feel proud about with regards to what WE are doing. There are far more solutions to tackle in this crisis than just taking in thousands of people we wouldn't be able to cope with - because once you start the precedent of accepting thousands and thousands, once you are full, how do you tell the next lot they're not welcome?
I believe the UK is one of a few countries who have got the response absolutely spot on.
They are more often than not, housed in ex social housing which is awaiting demolition or has been closed down and not offered to people on the housing list.
But agreed, that no one should be being housed in squalid conditions.
I meant reception centres, sorry. By the way, the 90s is a long time back in terms of government provision
The numbers coming here are also not linear to the number of new jobs being created and the number available.
The Guardian (of all newspapers) recently reported that the number of British unemployed has risen as employers look to take on cheaper labour through the plentiful supply of immigrants now here.
To top this off there was a programme on the BBC last week that stated that many white collar jobs are now being automated by computers - meaning as time goes on more and more jobs done by huams will be automated.
Do we really need many more coming here when:
a) The number of British born people out of work is increasing
b) Those above are finding it harder and harder to find work, with opportunities scuppered by immigrants prepared to work for less.
c) With increasing automation the number of jobs will slowly decrease.
You're right of course, automation will do away with so many of our current jobs.... so what the hell is Merkel up to? We're all aware that Germany's birthrate is low, perhaps she can see a pensions deficit looming, but that isn't going to be reversed by a lot of largely unemployed people is it. Also, if it is all about needing people why didn't they offer to accept young Greek or Spaniards?
What is really behind this open borders and letting these people flood Germany?
You know, this actually sounds like a good idea. I might just do that.
I don't think so in this crisis. I watched a Govt guy on TV saying that the only homes they wanted for Migrants were houses which were ready to rent now and fit for the purpose.
You make some good points.
I'm surprised with the Guardian though, as recently I have also seen a couple of articles that were more balanced than the usual hard left articles. I wonder if this is a changing trend with them, or just a few anomalies?
OK, lets take that at face value.
So why over the last twenty years at least, have we seen so many social housing areas, flats/houses being occupied by migrants?
Decent places that thousands of those on the housing list would be happy to occupy?
It's a kind of deliberate lie that's sold, perhaps iffy accomodation for a short while then top of the ist when they are moved out.
Long term the results are the same, social housing is being and has been allocated to migrants.
Why do you find it so hard to accept the evidence that is all around?
you expect to find "hard left" politics in the Guardian?? You must be to the right of Attila the Hun in that case. Read the Morning Star if you want to read hard left anything
I take it you are hard left then
Unless I'm mistaken, these migrants won't be claiming any benefits. EU migrants are allowed to claim some benefits, but we have more Brits abroad claiming benefits than we have non Brits claiming here.
Want to help the NHS? Well voting Tory or UKIP is the worst thing you can do. The Tories are dismantling the NHS via privatisation and under funding. We can afford to invest more into it, as austerity has been pretty much proven to stunt economic growth. However that would mean less selling off to their buddies on the cheap.
Some of the bigger petitions from present and past (getting over 100,000 signatures) have been:
Full disclosure of Hillsborough documents - I don't think this has happened?
Legalise cannabis - cannabis has not been legalised.
Reduce fuel duty - fuel duty has not been lowered.
Put Babar Ahmad on trial in the UK - he was put on trial in the US.
Debate a vote of no confidence in Jeremy Hunt - the 'debate' happened but it wasn't really about Hunt.
Benjamin Netanyahhu to be arrested - they wont arrest him.
Convicted London rioters should lose all benefits - they didn't lose their benefits.
The whole thing is meaningless.
let's have some realism here....
Hillsborough - I personally can never see this ever ending to everyones "satisfaction", there are people in Liverpool who genuinely believe it was a Government-sponsored conspiracy, there is already another inquest ongoing, yet there are still constant calls for "justice" when no-one can actually explain what their expectation of "justice" would consist of (all serving senior officials from that fateful day are either retired or dead by now!) so what can any Government actually do to close this off once and for all? there will never be "true" appeasement of the masses for this, it's too emotive
Legalise cannabis - I can see this potentially happening depending on what happens in America, time will tell!
fuel duty - fuel prices have gone down in real terms, but fuel duty will not be dropped unless it's a manifesto pledge from a successful Government
benefit cuts for convicted criminals - considering the ECHR have declared that the UK's position that convicts should not be unilaterally restricted from voting rights, how will any Government agree to "discriminate" against a specific portion of London rioters without facing a challenge in the ECHR?
I personally cannot stand petitions about an individual in the public eye, there can never be a valid debate about a specific individual, MPs would need to reveal their own bias/thoughts on the individual, and that threatens the concept of fair debate and discussion if personal bias (and public perception based on their vote) is involved
I'm sure there are some who will, but then again they risk the ire of Germany and other EU nations if they do come out in support of the nature of the petition, so I can honestly say I think it's going to go against the "aim" if/when put to a vote
which is a shame, as I guess the argument will be based on the very poor wording, so any MP who "wanted" to support the aim, but didn't want to be associated with something that could be viewed (by the press) as covertly racist, so the wording may undo the chances of it being taken too seriously
All that aside though I stand by the point that a UK government e-petition has never accomplished anything. They were the biggest and the most publicised, and if they could produce no effect, nothing will.
fair point, it's true that virtually no e-petition has accomplished anything, probably because e-petitions rely on people taking the time to check what they are about and raise awareness via social media
I wish this one could have been superseded by a better worded document, at least to give the "spirit" of the petition a fair chance
Probably so, but I don't think Cameron cares anyway. We are moving to a point where giant fracture lines are appearing in the EU.