Finally got Hiro back in it. Guess it makes sense now why Digi-Girl was in it. It's always been a problem with Heroes though, the coincidental meetings and such that goes on. Like this episode with Luke. It's something Heroes have done a lot of over the years. People just meeting up at the right time or knowing someone who just happens to have a power that solves this issue. It's like they want them to be a superhero group without them actually being a superhero group so they work it with chance meetings and slim friendships and plot threads finishing at the same spot so everyone ends up together for the final battle.
So is miko dead?
Bearded guy played a big part in the series and his death just seemed to be rushed and glossed over. I do think the story has moved on, I'm Intrigued to find out what happened at the summit to get Noah to erase his memory.
So is miko dead?
Bearded guy played a big part in the series and his death just seemed to be rushed and glossed over. I do think the story has moved on, I'm Intrigued to find out what happened at the summit to get Noah to erase his memory.
Wow Hiro has aged
At first I thought both of them had bit the bullet and that'd be it but now I'm inclined to believe Hiro altering the time line will save Quentin and the "real" Miko. If not then this show really did take one large dump over both of them, really just killed them off and moved on instantly.
This weeks episode was the first truly great episode of this series.
Some really good character moments, some nice action (come on, Hiro dual wielding kitanas was awesome), some amazing reveals, strong backstories, this episode really did feel like it had it all. Not perfect, of course, but nonetheless a very solid 9/10.
Bit of a coincidence that the kid is called Nathan then.
With regards to Malina my guess is she's Claire's daughter and part of her power let her age up from a baby in the last year.
Protecting his Grandaughter is why HRG had his memory wiped.
Should have guessed Nathan and Malina were twins.
I guess we'll never get an actual explanation of why Claire died for good this time. They'll just say it was her destiny/fate to survive until the children were born if they do say anything.
Interesting bit near the end with 15 year old Nathan -
1) Knowing his name is Nathan.
2) Seemingly knowing who his Father is (could be talking about his adoptive dad of course).
Looks like he'll be getting some memory blocking as well.
I do think he woulda uncovered her face to confirm it WAS her underneath. They probably couldn't get the rights to her imagine but it felt weird he didn't want to see that one last time.
I guess we'll never get an actual explanation of why Claire died for good this time. They'll just say it was her destiny/fate to survive until the children were born if they do say anything.
When Hiro tried to teleport in the room, and failed, I assumed there was something in the room stopping powers from working.
Not sure why Noah didn't realise this and get Claire moved.
So is Claire actually alive in her grave?
When Hiro tried to teleport in the room, and failed, I assumed there was something in the room stopping powers from working.
Not sure why Noah didn't realise this and get Claire moved.
So is Claire actually alive in her grave?
I assumed it was because of the black 'eclipse' from the Evo trapped in the basement (Beardy blokes Sister). It disabled all the evo's powers and was used just before the explosion to (I assume) stop the evo's there saving the day and stopping the explosion.
It seems to cover the whole sky and so no doubt the hospital too, stopping Clare's powers from doing what they always do and saving her. And stopping Hero teleporting (you'd think that would have given HRG pause and reason to move his daughter wouldn't you).
I think him not pulling back the sheet and 100% confirming it was Clare will come back if it gets a second series and if they can get Hayden to do a guest spot in which case they'll say Clare's powers kicked in after the black cloud dissipated (as in the an early episode of Heroes where she was co firmed dead and woke up in the morgue), we'll get some random flashback to HRG realising what's as happening and moving her so her powers could kick in.. If neither of those happen then it'll just be used as the reason why Clare actually died.
Does anyone know what the ratings have been like? Does a second series look likely?
Image I said earlier in the thread I'll stick with it based purely on how fantastic series one of the original Heroe's was but his is a long long way from that.
And given that the company (sorry name escapes me) is after super powerful evo's I wonder why there's been no mention of either Peter or Sylar. Angels named the boy Nathan 'after the son I lost'. So I would assume Peter is still around.
You do wonder where they are considering heroes built the original team up as the most powerful of them with sylar and Peter ability stealing, matts ability to implant thoughts and such and hiro as a time traveller and claire being immortal...lol plot holes. Yet apart from hiro none are mentioned and claire is dead...lol plot holes
I assumed it was because of the black 'eclipse' from the Evo trapped in the basement (Beardy blokes Sister). It disabled all the evo's powers and was used just before the explosion to (I assume) stop the evo's there saving the day and stopping the explosion.
It seems to cover the whole sky and so no doubt the hospital too, stopping Clare's powers from doing what they always do and saving her. And stopping Hero teleporting (you'd think that would have given HRG pause and reason to move his daughter wouldn't you).
Not sure if the Timelines match up.
Claire was already dead by the time Noah (future) got to the Hospital and this was presumably before Phoebe covered the area in Blackness (it was certainly still daylight outside when they arrived).
I don't think there was ever much of a delay between Claire dying and coming back (when there wasn't something stopping her) so I would think she would have had time to come alive again before Phoebe's power kicked in.
Speaking of that power it's a good job for the baddies that the Harris Clones weren't affected by it. Bit embarrassing for Erica if her six bombs turn into a pile of dust once she has Phoebe activate her powers.
Claire was already dead by the time Noah (future) got to the Hospital and this was presumably before Phoebe covered the area in Blackness (it was certainly still daylight outside when they arrived).
I don't think there was ever much of a delay between Claire dying and coming back (when there wasn't something stopping her) so I would think she would have had time to come alive again before Phoebe's power kicked in.
Speaking of that power it's a good job for the baddies that the Harris Clones weren't affected by it. Bit embarrassing for Erica if her six bombs turn into a pile of dust once she has Phoebe activate her powers.
I've no idea to be honest. Just guessing.
Claire can't just die. We know this as fact. So there's either something in the hospital which suppresses powers or it was the black cloud.
Could be either. Since Hiro couldn't transport.
Either of those would mean that once the suppressor was removed/black cloud dissipated Claire's powers would kick in and bring her back.
So unless we get an actual explanation about how and why Clare died then I'm going to assume that she revived at some once removed from that position.
As I said, if they can get Hayden to do a guest spot then i'm sure we'll get a flash back to explain it.
While it is true that the original series established that Claire simply cannot die, and can even (IIRC) survive a nuclear explosion, don't forget that the writers of Heroes are also fond of plotholes and inconsistencies
However the Claire stuff has really pissed me off. She is iconic to the show, "save the cheerleader" was a massive tag line and would have trended on twitter every episode if Twitter was around then...and to just kill her like that.
The fact she died in childbirth is making me think she really is dead because it's quite a heroic and meaningful way to die rather than being killed when she's indestructible so it will be hard to define that. Also dying while giving birth to two children who will save the World is quite a purposeful death and makes me think they've written it like that to make it worth killing her.
Which it isn't. Nothing is worth killing Claire. I still hope there's a twist that she is alive because that would make the show have a worthwhile pay off.
Plus the fact that we never got to see the effects of her revealing her powers at the carnival and what it lead to which is disappointing as I feel a bit like it's unfinished.
Angela and Hiro were awesome too. The show was just sort of watchable but since the last two episodes it's felt more Heroes and I wish they've had more of the original cast in there.
I guess we'll never get an actual explanation of why Claire died for good this time.
I figure it's due to one of two circumstances.
Either that girl with the Dark Matter was somehow involved, and as she disables peoples' abilities, there's no resurrection for Claire. Alternatively, it's possible that (via some odd side effect) Claire's power doesn't manifest when pregnant.
I do think he woulda uncovered her face to confirm it WAS her underneath. They probably couldn't get the rights to her imagine but it felt weird he didn't want to see that one last time.
I too found this odd. Regardless of rights, they could have shown Noah looking under the cover - and just hid the face from us. At least then we'd have had clarification that Noah saw his daughter dead. Lousy writing if you ask me; either that, or it isn't actually Claire..?
And given that the company (sorry name escapes me) is after super powerful evo's I wonder why there's been no mention of either Peter or Sylar. Angels named the boy Nathan 'after the son I lost'. So I would assume Peter is still around.
For all we know, both Sylar and Peter didn't go public with their powers, and between them they've the ability to acquire as many powers as they wish. They could probably be in hiding? I doubt we'll see Sylar again, but Peter is a possibility for Series 2 I guess (if we get a Series 2).
Speaking of that power it's a good job for the baddies that the Harris Clones weren't affected by it. Bit embarrassing for Erica if her six bombs turn into a pile of dust once she has Phoebe activate her powers.
I'm guessing that it's the creation of the clones that is the power; once they're alive and walking, they're not considered a power.
It'll be interesting to see how the twins react when they realize that (technically) they're only one year old.
Surely taking the twins to the past would also create 'butterflies'
Yes but the writers of this show enjoy making it up ad they go along.
Hiro won't stop the explosion because'butterflies' but will take two babies and their grandmother back 15 years because Angela said so.
Suppose we'll find out what happened to Angela next episode and why the twins ended up on opposite sides of the world with different people. Something must have happened to her.
I'll guess that she too came back to the present and had her memories wiped.
Or the Angela we saw warn Mohinder an hour earlier had just spent 16 years in the past.
*I'm ready. Dad taught me everything he knows" his adoptive mother says "Yes he did"
So no real clue to who he's on about just that someone he considers his father spent at least some time with him during the last 15 years and prepared him for his mission to save the world.
Rewatching the latest episode, it dawned on me that there was a plot thread brought up that could potentially redeem the slow burn of the series. And that is the identity of Tommy's dad.
I mean for some reason Tommy (whose real name is Nathan apparently) wasn't told who he was or about his biological parents because "we were worried you'd try save your dad". It strikes me as interesting that his dad is singled out while his mother doesn't get a mention.
And because his name is Nathan, well there's only 3 possibilities really. a) He's Nathan Petrelli's orphan kid just like Claire was in the original run, b) Peter had a secret child and called him Nathan after his brother or c) Tommy is Sylar's kid who called him Nathan out of guilt.
So the question is, will we see any of these 3 characters appear towards the end of the series?
*I'm ready. Dad taught me everything he knows" his adoptive mother says "Yes he did"
So no real clue to who he's on about just that someone he considers his father spent at least some time with him during the last 15 years and prepared him for his mission to save the world.
You would assume his adoptive father, bearing in mind that his real father won't have made the kids with Claire yet, to many butterflies (this is your son, he will be born in 15 years after you have had sex with Claire)!
I had wondered if Hiro was the father Nathan was talking about but couldn't work out why he would stay in the past the whole time so never suggested it
Now we know.
One thing that I'm wondering about.
We know Noah shooting Erica changes things as she is now walking with a stick and gingerbeard guy is now working for her .
However in the timeline before it was altered by Noah Nathan and his mother were still on the run and his memory was gone so they must have been discovered originally as well.
I suppose Erica and Harris may just have tracked Hiro down in the original timeline.
We'llprobably never know how events played out in the past before Noah shot her.
What I'm wondering is if Noah shooting her resulted in Quintin working for her I imagine he has been working for her since meeting the sister which was a year ago. So he never would have been hunting her in the first place to meet Noah. So why was he with Noah in that building breaking in on Noahs return from the past?
I liked the episode. Im actually satisfied that they killed Claire in a way that makes sense and not just retconing her.
Not quite sure how the whole thing works with Angela and Hiro though.
Does that mean that during the original series there was a grey(ing) haired Angela bringing up Claires yet to be born daughter and a greying Hiro bringing up her yet to be born son and the whole time Sylar was on the prowl, Samuel was recruiting and Charlie was growing old with another man, he stayed in Odessa (somehow out of sight of young Claire, Noah, Peter and co the entire time they were coming to and from Odessa and Primatech) and yet he done not a thing?
That;s quite the issue isn't it but he'd be killer at hide and seek.
We'llprobably never know how events played out in the past before Noah shot her.
What I'm wondering is if Noah shooting her resulted in Quintin working for her I imagine he has been working for her since meeting the sister which was a year ago. So he never would have been hunting her in the first place to meet Noah. So why was he with Noah in that building breaking in on Noahs return from the past?
I liked the episode. Im actually satisfied that they killed Claire in a way that makes sense and not just retconing her.
Not quite sure how the whole thing works with Angela and Hiro though.
Does that mean that during the original series there was a grey(ing) haired Angela bringing up Claires yet to be born daughter and a greying Hiro bringing up her yet to be born son and the whole time Sylar was on the prowl, Samuel was recruiting and Charlie was growing old with another man, he stayed in Odessa (somehow out of sight of young Claire, Noah, Peter and co the entire time they were coming to and from Odessa and Primatech) and yet he done not a thing?
That;s quite the issue isn't it but he'd be killer at hide and seek.
This is why I hate time paradoxes in TV shows.
There was no ageing Hiro and Angela in the original because Hiro and Angela hadn't gone back in time with the children yet.
But now that have gone back in time if we have any flashbacks they have to be included because now they have gone back in time.
I assume Nathan will take Melina's power when they meet properly. But wonder why he wasn't taught to take more than one power on as when we first met Peter he could only take on one power and was taught to do more. And considering it is SO important for for him to have maintained that one power for his whole life that means he has NEVER been in contact with any other evo's for his entire life (Despite growing up in Odessa which is seemingly Evo central) so surely teaching him to maintain more than one power would have been essential and you know, made sense.
I loved how Angela immediately deducted that the baby stole people's powers because he was a Patrelli. Given that the only one of the Patrelli's that stole powers was Peter. Nathan could fly, Angela had visions and I forget what the fathers power was. And Given that the babies were Nathan's grandchildren and not Peter's why would she jump to that conclusion?
How come he didn't take the power of the memory bloke when he teleported them. Or Molly Walker etc etc. Why did he not take Angel's in the hospital when she held him as a baby (since that was enough for him to take Hiro's).
So beardy bloke now words for The bad guys. After being perfectly happy with his kidnapped sisters explanation that the people who kidnapped her weren't at all holding her against her will in a basement cell. He was so okay with it he decided to join them!
There seems to be more plot holes than actual plot in this series.
1) Altered Timeline; much of what we've seen thus far has changed, and in turn hasn't happened (or at least, hasn't happened the same).
2) The Kids are those of Claire and [person x], a valid explanation of how/why Claire died. I respect that.
3) Hiro is powerless, and (armed with katanas) he's just gone after three people who all had guns - is he to meet his untimely fate?
4) Matt has turned to the darkside
5) There appears to be a shapeshifter lurking around (re Mohinders' confession)
6) Inconsistencies & poor continuity (you guys have pretty much covered that above)
7) Little backstory on the invisible woman
I feel like we found out a lot with this latest episode, but in true Heroes tradition, we've got more plot holes than we have consistency. That'll be the downfall of the series if they can't connect the dots. Time Travel is a tricky thing, if you're going to do it, have it make sense. The only exception to that rule is anything that happens in Doctor Who, merely because that show IS time travel.
Comments
Also where the Master of Time & Space was located... Sad this was the highlight of the episode.
Bearded guy played a big part in the series and his death just seemed to be rushed and glossed over. I do think the story has moved on, I'm Intrigued to find out what happened at the summit to get Noah to erase his memory.
Wow Hiro has aged
At first I thought both of them had bit the bullet and that'd be it but now I'm inclined to believe Hiro altering the time line will save Quentin and the "real" Miko. If not then this show really did take one large dump over both of them, really just killed them off and moved on instantly.
Some really good character moments, some nice action (come on, Hiro dual wielding kitanas was awesome), some amazing reveals, strong backstories, this episode really did feel like it had it all. Not perfect, of course, but nonetheless a very solid 9/10.
Should have guessed Nathan and Malina were twins.
I guess we'll never get an actual explanation of why Claire died for good this time. They'll just say it was her destiny/fate to survive until the children were born if they do say anything.
Interesting bit near the end with 15 year old Nathan -
1) Knowing his name is Nathan.
2) Seemingly knowing who his Father is (could be talking about his adoptive dad of course).
Looks like he'll be getting some memory blocking as well.
The world didn't implode though when Noah seen himself in the hospital. Also, did not see the whole Nathan thing coming. Well played.
When Hiro tried to teleport in the room, and failed, I assumed there was something in the room stopping powers from working.
Not sure why Noah didn't realise this and get Claire moved.
So is Claire actually alive in her grave?
I assumed it was because of the black 'eclipse' from the Evo trapped in the basement (Beardy blokes Sister). It disabled all the evo's powers and was used just before the explosion to (I assume) stop the evo's there saving the day and stopping the explosion.
It seems to cover the whole sky and so no doubt the hospital too, stopping Clare's powers from doing what they always do and saving her. And stopping Hero teleporting (you'd think that would have given HRG pause and reason to move his daughter wouldn't you).
I think him not pulling back the sheet and 100% confirming it was Clare will come back if it gets a second series and if they can get Hayden to do a guest spot in which case they'll say Clare's powers kicked in after the black cloud dissipated (as in the an early episode of Heroes where she was co firmed dead and woke up in the morgue), we'll get some random flashback to HRG realising what's as happening and moving her so her powers could kick in.. If neither of those happen then it'll just be used as the reason why Clare actually died.
Does anyone know what the ratings have been like? Does a second series look likely?
Image I said earlier in the thread I'll stick with it based purely on how fantastic series one of the original Heroe's was but his is a long long way from that.
And given that the company (sorry name escapes me) is after super powerful evo's I wonder why there's been no mention of either Peter or Sylar. Angels named the boy Nathan 'after the son I lost'. So I would assume Peter is still around.
Not sure if the Timelines match up.
Claire was already dead by the time Noah (future) got to the Hospital and this was presumably before Phoebe covered the area in Blackness (it was certainly still daylight outside when they arrived).
I don't think there was ever much of a delay between Claire dying and coming back (when there wasn't something stopping her) so I would think she would have had time to come alive again before Phoebe's power kicked in.
Speaking of that power it's a good job for the baddies that the Harris Clones weren't affected by it. Bit embarrassing for Erica if her six bombs turn into a pile of dust once she has Phoebe activate her powers.
I've no idea to be honest. Just guessing.
Claire can't just die. We know this as fact. So there's either something in the hospital which suppresses powers or it was the black cloud.
Could be either. Since Hiro couldn't transport.
Either of those would mean that once the suppressor was removed/black cloud dissipated Claire's powers would kick in and bring her back.
So unless we get an actual explanation about how and why Clare died then I'm going to assume that she revived at some once removed from that position.
As I said, if they can get Hayden to do a guest spot then i'm sure we'll get a flash back to explain it.
However the Claire stuff has really pissed me off. She is iconic to the show, "save the cheerleader" was a massive tag line and would have trended on twitter every episode if Twitter was around then...and to just kill her like that.
The fact she died in childbirth is making me think she really is dead because it's quite a heroic and meaningful way to die rather than being killed when she's indestructible so it will be hard to define that. Also dying while giving birth to two children who will save the World is quite a purposeful death and makes me think they've written it like that to make it worth killing her.
Which it isn't. Nothing is worth killing Claire. I still hope there's a twist that she is alive because that would make the show have a worthwhile pay off.
Plus the fact that we never got to see the effects of her revealing her powers at the carnival and what it lead to which is disappointing as I feel a bit like it's unfinished.
Angela and Hiro were awesome too. The show was just sort of watchable but since the last two episodes it's felt more Heroes and I wish they've had more of the original cast in there.
Either that girl with the Dark Matter was somehow involved, and as she disables peoples' abilities, there's no resurrection for Claire. Alternatively, it's possible that (via some odd side effect) Claire's power doesn't manifest when pregnant.
I missed this. Who was the Father implemented as?
I too found this odd. Regardless of rights, they could have shown Noah looking under the cover - and just hid the face from us. At least then we'd have had clarification that Noah saw his daughter dead. Lousy writing if you ask me; either that, or it isn't actually Claire..?
For all we know, both Sylar and Peter didn't go public with their powers, and between them they've the ability to acquire as many powers as they wish. They could probably be in hiding? I doubt we'll see Sylar again, but Peter is a possibility for Series 2 I guess (if we get a Series 2).
I'm guessing that it's the creation of the clones that is the power; once they're alive and walking, they're not considered a power.
It'll be interesting to see how the twins react when they realize that (technically) they're only one year old.
Yes but the writers of this show enjoy making it up ad they go along.
Hiro won't stop the explosion because'butterflies' but will take two babies and their grandmother back 15 years because Angela said so.
Suppose we'll find out what happened to Angela next episode and why the twins ended up on opposite sides of the world with different people. Something must have happened to her.
I'll guess that she too came back to the present and had her memories wiped.
Or the Angela we saw warn Mohinder an hour earlier had just spent 16 years in the past.
All Nathan says is something like
*I'm ready. Dad taught me everything he knows" his adoptive mother says "Yes he did"
So no real clue to who he's on about just that someone he considers his father spent at least some time with him during the last 15 years and prepared him for his mission to save the world.
I would say that a) is definitely out now
You would assume his adoptive father, bearing in mind that his real father won't have made the kids with Claire yet, to many butterflies (this is your son, he will be born in 15 years after you have had sex with Claire)!
Now we know.
One thing that I'm wondering about.
We know Noah shooting Erica changes things as she is now walking with a stick and gingerbeard guy is now working for her .
However in the timeline before it was altered by Noah Nathan and his mother were still on the run and his memory was gone so they must have been discovered originally as well.
I suppose Erica and Harris may just have tracked Hiro down in the original timeline.
What I'm wondering is if Noah shooting her resulted in Quintin working for her I imagine he has been working for her since meeting the sister which was a year ago. So he never would have been hunting her in the first place to meet Noah. So why was he with Noah in that building breaking in on Noahs return from the past?
I liked the episode. Im actually satisfied that they killed Claire in a way that makes sense and not just retconing her.
Not quite sure how the whole thing works with Angela and Hiro though.
Does that mean that during the original series there was a grey(ing) haired Angela bringing up Claires yet to be born daughter and a greying Hiro bringing up her yet to be born son and the whole time Sylar was on the prowl, Samuel was recruiting and Charlie was growing old with another man, he stayed in Odessa (somehow out of sight of young Claire, Noah, Peter and co the entire time they were coming to and from Odessa and Primatech) and yet he done not a thing?
That;s quite the issue isn't it but he'd be killer at hide and seek.
This is why I hate time paradoxes in TV shows.
There was no ageing Hiro and Angela in the original because Hiro and Angela hadn't gone back in time with the children yet.
But now that have gone back in time if we have any flashbacks they have to be included because now they have gone back in time.
I assume Nathan will take Melina's power when they meet properly. But wonder why he wasn't taught to take more than one power on as when we first met Peter he could only take on one power and was taught to do more. And considering it is SO important for for him to have maintained that one power for his whole life that means he has NEVER been in contact with any other evo's for his entire life (Despite growing up in Odessa which is seemingly Evo central) so surely teaching him to maintain more than one power would have been essential and you know, made sense.
I loved how Angela immediately deducted that the baby stole people's powers because he was a Patrelli. Given that the only one of the Patrelli's that stole powers was Peter. Nathan could fly, Angela had visions and I forget what the fathers power was. And Given that the babies were Nathan's grandchildren and not Peter's why would she jump to that conclusion?
How come he didn't take the power of the memory bloke when he teleported them. Or Molly Walker etc etc. Why did he not take Angel's in the hospital when she held him as a baby (since that was enough for him to take Hiro's).
So beardy bloke now words for The bad guys. After being perfectly happy with his kidnapped sisters explanation that the people who kidnapped her weren't at all holding her against her will in a basement cell. He was so okay with it he decided to join them!
There seems to be more plot holes than actual plot in this series.
1) Altered Timeline; much of what we've seen thus far has changed, and in turn hasn't happened (or at least, hasn't happened the same).
2) The Kids are those of Claire and [person x], a valid explanation of how/why Claire died. I respect that.
3) Hiro is powerless, and (armed with katanas) he's just gone after three people who all had guns - is he to meet his untimely fate?
4) Matt has turned to the darkside
5) There appears to be a shapeshifter lurking around (re Mohinders' confession)
6) Inconsistencies & poor continuity (you guys have pretty much covered that above)
7) Little backstory on the invisible woman
I feel like we found out a lot with this latest episode, but in true Heroes tradition, we've got more plot holes than we have consistency. That'll be the downfall of the series if they can't connect the dots. Time Travel is a tricky thing, if you're going to do it, have it make sense. The only exception to that rule is anything that happens in Doctor Who, merely because that show IS time travel.
So, can someone explain how Claire's death was explained/justified?
How do you kill someone who is immortal and indestructible?