I adored Kat and Alfie up until there 2005 exit but have hated them both ever since they set foot back in the square in 2010. I don't think I could dislike Alfie anymore if I tried. Admittedly Kat has improved a lot in the last couple of years but its too little too late for me. Kat is meant to be the tragic heroine who the viewers love but I cant sympathise with her at all I just think back to what a thoroughly despicable person she was 2010 - 2012 and think she deserves everything she gets.
Yes, I pretty much agree with this and what many others have said.
Kat is a stronger character than Alfie and has more potential to be salvaged if she is on her own but although she had improved a lot over the past couple of years (especially in 2013) it is so hard to forget the travesty they made of her character 2010-2012 so I find it incredibly hard to care about her or the various traumas she endures now. And i actually hate that they rewarded them with a lottery win. Retcon or not, I am also really, really nervous about this second twin, secret son plot and where it will take us. It's only a feeling but i think it will end up involving a lot of other characters like Jean and Brian Slater (that ruddy key) and trash what we know of the Slaters history in the same way DTC has recently done to the Mitchell's and Watts to get Kathy back in.
So did they do that spin off show in Ireland already?
No, they haven't done the spin off yet. They're only returning for a few weeks so they can set the spin off up and then they'll be on their way to Ireland. The spin off will be filmed this coming Spring and will be televised late 2016. After that we don't know but I hope Kat returns permanently.
Maybe a little mean but I think a lot of people would agree with you. I don't mind Alfie although I'd be interested to see Kat as a wealthy widow.
I think this poll needed a 'looking forward to Kat but NOT Alfie' option given some of the responses.
I agree with you here. I think the majority view is yes bring Kat back and NO to Alfie! I'd like to see Kat as a wealthy widow too. What I don't want to see is someone random fleecing Kat for all her money. I think Kat should start up a business in the Square, something classy and something very Kat but I'm not sure what.
No, they haven't done the spin off yet. They're only returning for a few weeks so they can set the spin off up and then they'll be on their way to Ireland. The spin off will be filmed this coming Spring and will be televised late 2016. After that we don't know but I hope Kat returns permanently.
Maybe a little mean but I think a lot of people would agree with you. I don't mind Alfie although I'd be interested to see Kat as a wealthy widow.
I think this poll needed a 'looking forward to Kat but NOT Alfie' option given some of the responses.
It is indeed quite mean and I disagree that there should have been a Kat but not Alfie option as that's not what the OP asked and why would Kat come back alone unless Alfie had already died?
I'm assuming that their return will be more about Kat than Alfie seeing how the secret son is to do with her alone and nothing to do with Alfie but seeing as they are still together what would the be the point of her returning alone unless something had happened to Alfie or they'd split up?
As for the OP's question,yes, I AM looking forward to their return. I can't wait!:p:p:p
There is no Kat without Alfie. It's a myth. She spent all her time "away" from him pining after him. They revolve around each other.
So who was that gobby bird with the fake tan and leopard print who tottered around the Square in 2000 - 2002?
I don't think Kat needs Alfie. During her successful first spell it was always her relationship with Zoe that was her most important and character defining. I think Kat's a bit like Sharon in that she works best with family around her and I think it's something DTC and his team understand.
The problem is since 2010 Kat hasn't really had much in the way of family so if her and Alfie were to split she'd become fairly isolated, they've revolved around each other because there isn't anybody else they're strongly connected to, but the twin son seems to be a plan to address that and reinvent her position.
There were three seemingly unrelated plot strands set up for Kat earlier in the year: the twin, the lottery win and Alfie's cancer. With DTC you know these are all going to tie together at some point and it will become apparent why all three were necessary.
As long as Alfie is alive Kat will want to be with him, but killing him off closes that chapter for good and allows the character to move on. But then she's a single mother and in danger of morphing into Bianca II and nobody wants another Bianca. Giving her wealth prevents that and will enable her to run her own business giving her new status and position on the Square. But then she's too isolated, so giving her an adult son and maybe grandchildren too and suddenly she has her own family built around, just like when she was at her most successful. That's the key I think, trying to recapture what made her such a legend.
This direction makes far more sense for Kat than trying to turn a lone wolf like Shirley into a matriarchal figure. Family has always been in the bones of Kat, it's part of her character make-up. It's currently dormant and unutilised, but it's there and opening that side up again will return her to her roots. I think Kat has more potential now than she's had in years.
Kat because of the ridiculous secret son storyline. How can you not know you had a son come out of your.......well you know. It's a ridiculous retcon of a storyline and utterly stupid.
(That said, if it weren't for that stupid June Whitfield doof doof suggesting that then I'd be happy for a Kat return. It would be a new chapter for her and with her new wealth it provides possibilities for her as a character to develop into a new Kat.)
Alfie because despite potential upcoming stories with him I just feel he is a broken record now. His character has run its course now by some time.
Kat because of the ridiculous secret son storyline. How can you not know you had a son come out of your.......well you know. It's a ridiculous retcon of a storyline and utterly stupid.
Alfie because despite potential upcoming stories with him I just feel he is a broken record now. His character has run its course now by some time.
I assume she was unconscious. A small thirteen year old girl trying to push out twins without pain relief... I'll wait for the explanation but it's not impossible.
To be honest so much has happened in Eastenders, jam packed with storylines going all over the place, twisting and turning, with storyblocking then sudden accelerations (sometimes to beyond credibility), that I had forgotten about Kat and Alfie.
So you should have included an "undecided" category to yes / no.
The one thing DTC has done apart from "ruining" several of the characters - is to keep everyone guessing - even with the spoilers. There are so many twists and turns followed by storyblocking where other storylines have their chances at twisting and turning that it is almost anyones guess where some of the plotlines are going.
To be honest so much has happened in Eastenders, jam packed with storylines going all over the place, twisting and turning, with storyblocking then sudden accelerations (sometimes to beyond credibility), that I had forgotten about Kat and Alfie.
I'm not surprised. With the extreme storyblocking I often forget about characters currently on the show! I was looking at some upcoming spoilers and realised I had forgotten all about Stacey, Shabnam, Kush and martin.
I'm not surprised. With the extreme storyblocking I often forget about characters currently on the show! I was looking at some upcoming spoilers and realised I had forgotten all about Stacey, Shabnam, Kush and martin.
That's true. It's because there is so much mystery, intensity, twists and turns in many of the storylines you have to remain focussed on the current storyline just to keep up with it.
So who was that gobby bird with the fake tan and leopard print who tottered around the Square in 2000 - 2002?
That was 13 years ago. That verion of Kat is never coming back. It's like expecting Sharon to start wearing fluffy jumpers and a poodle perm again or Billy Mitchell to start beating the crap out of Jay. The character has moved on....to Alfie. Poor cow.
I don't think Kat needs Alfie. During her successful first spell it was always her relationship with Zoe that was her most important and character defining. I think Kat's a bit like Sharon in that she works best with family around her and I think it's something DTC and his team understand.
Kat needs Alfie in exactly the same way she needed Zoe. She isn't a standalone character who can bounce off others and never will be. A character like Pat is someone you can place in any dynamic because she can work in any situation. Kat is limited by her childhood abuse, Zoe and Alfie. That's why it always comes back to her being damaged goods, babies and Alfie. Sharon can interact with pretty much anyone and it works. Just look at Thursday's episode. Her problem is she was a spare part because all her family were dead and she was only brought back to boost the raitngs. It all worked out for Sharon in the end whereas Kat's return was a misfirefrom beginning to end and I include the twin she didn't notice she'd given birth to in that assessment.
The problem is since 2010 Kat hasn't really had much in the way of family so if her and Alfie were to split she'd become fairly isolated, they've revolved around each other because there isn't anybody else they're strongly connected to, but the twin son seems to be a plan to address that and reinvent her position.
Alfie and Kat had an enire family brought in for them in 2010. They were crap but at least they were there to interact with. All she did was moan and spit venom for years as well as drop her knickers over and over again. She's a limited character. This twin storyline is a jump the shark moment if ever I saw it. The last desperate attempt to make her work.
There were three seemingly unrelated plot strands set up for Kat earlier in the year: the twin, the lottery win and Alfie's cancer. With DTC you know these are all going to tie together at some point and it will become apparent why all three were necessary.
I used to love Kat but I think she's had her day. I'm not interested in any of this stuff she has coming up and I won't watch the spin off. Her story concluded perfectly 10 years ago and should have been left there. Again, this twin storyline is a joke and a desperate attempt to give her something to do. If family was the issue with Kat she'd have been given a purpose a lot sooner than now. Sharon managed it in record time as did Pat on several occasions. The issue with Kat is that there's only so many places a character defined by such awful things can be taken before it's going over old ground. 5 years of it was enough. Another 5 years of unrelenting misery was not required and did nothing but make it look like Groundhog Day every time Kat and Alfie appeared.
As long as Alfie is alive Kat will want to be with him, but killing him off closes that chapter for good and allows the character to move on. But then she's a single mother and in danger of morphing into Bianca II and nobody wants another Bianca. Giving her wealth prevents that and will enable her to run her own business giving her new status and position on the Square. But then she's too isolated, so giving her an adult son and maybe grandchildren too and suddenly she has her own family built around, just like when she was at her most successful. That's the key I think, trying to recapture what made her such a legend.
If Alfie dies than Kat moves on with 3 toddlers and no husband. For a character who thrives on misery she isn't going to be setting up home with a new man and a life of luxury. Bianca Part 2 is all that will happen. What made Kat such a legend is the Zoe story. The way they're trying to rehash it is insulting and cheap. I know no one wants to admit it but Alfie is more valued than Kat. When Shane Richie left in 2005 they wrote Kat out rather than keep her on. It will always be Kat and Alfie together because that's the way the people in charge see them. A pair. I also don't see Jessie Wallace being in the show without Shane Richie. Either she'll go or she'll be written out alongside him again.
This direction makes far more sense for Kat than trying to turn a lone wolf like Shirley into a matriarchal figure. Family has always been in the bones of Kat, it's part of her character make-up. It's currently dormant and unutilised, but it's there and opening that side up again will return her to her roots. I think Kat has more potential now than she's had in years.
I agree about Shirley being miscast as a matriarch and I agree Kat revolves around her family. The problem is Alfie has been her family on screen longer than any of the Slaters and certainly longer than the invisible twin. I hate Alfie and Shane Richie gets on my nerves but realistically Kat without Alfie ended in 2002 and won't be coming back.
That was 13 years ago. That verion of Kat is never coming back. It's like expecting Sharon to start wearing fluffy jumpers and a poodle perm again or Billy Mitchell to start beating the crap out of Jay. The character has moved on....to Alfie. Poor cow.
Oh of course not and I wouldn't want her to come back either. She's 45 now and her writing needs to reflect that but that was the bones of the character, the origins, the building blocks so it's not something I'd disregard. Looking at who the character really was/is and then rebuilding her from that is quite clever in my opinion, even though it's in some ways obvious.
Kat needs Alfie in exactly the same way she needed Zoe. She isn't a standalone character who can bounce off others and never will be. A character like Pat is someone you can place in any dynamic because she can work in any situation. Kat is limited by her childhood abuse, Zoe and Alfie. That's why it always comes back to her being damaged goods, babies and Alfie. Sharon can interact with pretty much anyone and it works. Just look at Thursday's episode. Her problem is she was a spare part because all her family were dead and she was only brought back to boost the raitngs. It all worked out for Sharon in the end whereas Kat's return was a misfirefrom beginning to end and I include the twin she didn't notice she'd given birth to in that assessment.
I don't really agree. They tried to place Sharon with the Brannings and it failed. Kat isn't the character she once was but neither is Sharon, I do think she needs the Mitchells now unfortunately. Kat's return was a misfire because Kirkwood ignored all of her character development and had her behave like a total bitch until the audience fell out of love with her.
I don't think either Sharon or Kat are dependent on specific characters but they do need family to be at their most effective. There is nothing wrong with that, it's a family based soap after all.
Alfie and Kat had an enire family brought in for them in 2010. They were crap but at least they were there to interact with. All she did was moan and spit venom for years as well as drop her knickers over and over again. She's a limited character. This twin storyline is a jump the shark moment if ever I saw it. The last desperate attempt to make her work.
A crap family who were worse to interact with than the Brannings were for Sharon and Sharon struggled with the Brannings. I think Kat is probably the one great character they've created all millennium but one person's Queen is another person's crap. That's alright.
I used to love Kat but I think she's had her day. I'm not interested in any of this stuff she has coming up and I won't watch the spin off. Her story concluded perfectly 10 years ago and should have been left there. Again, this twin storyline is a joke and a desperate attempt to give her something to do. If family was the issue with Kat she'd have been given a purpose a lot sooner than now. Sharon managed it in record time as did Pat on several occasions. The issue with Kat is that there's only so many places a character defined by such awful things can be taken before it's going over old ground. 5 years of it was enough. Another 5 years of unrelenting misery was not required and did nothing but make it look like Groundhog Day every time Kat and Alfie appeared.
I understand. You're no longer interested in the character and I think sometimes when you reach that point with somebody it wouldn't really matter what they do. I think she still has a lot of potential despite the mistakes made upon her return but I can see why for others she's been irreparably damaged.
I would say the reason they didn't find solutions sooner with the character is because neither Kirkwood nor Newman were talented producers, and DTC understandably made other characters his priority before Kat. Once he got round to her he seemed to quickly understand one of the problems and has sought to rectify it.
If Alfie dies than Kat moves on with 3 toddlers and no husband. For a character who thrives on misery she isn't going to be setting up home with a new man and a life of luxury. Bianca Part 2 is all that will happen.
I don't think so. Bianca was all about being a single mother on the breadline, scrimping and saving to take care of her kids. Kat is now one of the wealthiest characters they have.
I know no one wants to admit it but Alfie is more valued than Kat. When Shane Richie left in 2005 they wrote Kat out rather than keep her on. It will always be Kat and Alfie together because that's the way the people in charge see them. A pair. I also don't see Jessie Wallace being in the show without Shane Richie. Either she'll go or she'll be written out alongside him again.
But Jessie Wallace wanted to leave in 2005 and even if that producer did value Shane Richie more highly doesn't mean it would be the case in 2015 under DTC. Story developments and episodes such as the convent one certainly indicate it's Kat who is now valued more highly of the two. Surely whoever it was ten years ago is now irrelevant.
Oh of course not and I wouldn't want her to come back either. She's 45 now and her writing needs to reflect that but that was the bones of the character, the origins, the building blocks so it's not something I'd disregard. Looking at who the character really was/is and then rebuilding her from that is quite clever in my opinion, even though it's in some ways obvious.
But haven't they tried to repair Kat quite a few times in the last 5 years? How many more times can she be supposedly fixed only to go back to being crap again? For what it's worth I thought she was okay before she saw Stacey. She was perfectly happy with Alfie and then it all went to shit once she saw Stacey. Newman's repair job flushed down the toilet. And Stacey is her family.
I don't really agree. They tried to place Sharon with the Brannings and it failed. Kat isn't the character she once was but neither is Sharon, I do think she needs the Mitchells now unfortunately. Kat's return was a misfire because Kirkwood ignored all of her character development and had her behave like a total bitch until the audience fell out of love with her.
Oh I agree Sharon needs the Mitchells now but I equally think she could be part of another family just like the Watts family in the 80's and early 2000's. She's as good as a member of the Beale/Fowler family too and would always have them to interact with. Placing her with the Brannings was Simon Ashdown's attempt to validate his favourie family. He cut Sharon off from everyone she knew and put her with bloody Tanya and boring Jack. Kat has always had characters around her she's familiar with. That's the benefit she has from being a combo with Alfie. It still didn't make her any more appealing second time around.
I don't think either Sharon or Kat are dependent on specific characters but they do need family to be at their most effective. There is nothing wrong with that, it's a family based soap after all.
Sharon has worked extensively with a multitiude of characters over the years. Den, Ang, Michelle, Grant, Phil, Peggy, Dennis, Linda, Vicki, Fireman Tom, Chrissie, Ronnie, Roxy, Ben and more. Kat has only ever seemed to work with within the confines of the Slater/Moon family, namely Zoe and Alfie, and rarely branches out. When she does the results haven't been particularly well received (witchy friendship with Bianca, turfing Derek's daughter under the bus and of course the baby swap). I won't deny Sharon is reliant on the Mitchells now but I have no doubt she could survive if Phil left. We've already seen Sharon in different dynamics but Kat has stuck to the Slaters/Alfie throughout. She's defined by this association now whereas Sharon is/was able to flit between the Wattses, Mitchells, Beales and Fowlers as well as characters like Dot. It just comes off as forced when the writers move Kat out of her comfort zone. She didn't have one friend on the show until Bianca and they were a pair of bitches together.
A crap family who were worse to interact with than the Brannings were for Sharon and Sharon struggled with the Brannings. I think Kat is probably the one great character they've created all millennium but one person's Queen is another person's crap. That's alright.
I agree Kat is the greatest character since 2000. But, as with Angie Watts, I think less would be more. I've not been impressed with Kat from 2010 to 2015. There was nothing worth coming back for and her legacy is tarnished.
I understand. You're no longer interested in the character and I think sometimes when you reach that point with somebody it wouldn't really matter what they do. I think she still has a lot of potential despite the mistakes made upon her return but I can see why for others she's been irreparably damaged.
This is true. I can see you understand where I'm coming from even if we disagree:)
I don't think so. Bianca was all about being a single mother on the breadline, scrimping and saving to take care of her kids. Kat is now one of the wealthiest characters they have.
But Jessie Wallace wanted to leave in 2005 and even if that producer did value Shane Richie more highly doesn't mean it would be the case in 2015 under DTC. Story developments and episodes such as the convent one certainly indicate it's Kat who is now valued more highly of the two. Surely whoever it was ten years ago is now irrelevant.
If any producer was going to kill off Alfie and keep Kat it would be DTC. He's a fanboy at heart who doesn't know when to stop. In fact I agree DTC himself likely values Kat above Alfie. He was quick to kick Alfie out of The Vic when he became EP. Kat never needed The Vic to function but Alfie is a spare part without it.
But haven't they tried to repair Kat quite a few times in the last 5 years?
I wouldn't say so. They tried to repair her once before under Newman and I think that was successful under the circumstances.
How many more times can she be supposedly fixed only to go back to being crap again?
I don't think this has repeatedly happened. None of the characters are consistently good anymore, I just accept that EastEnders' best years are gone and so even the best characters are up and down.
For what it's worth I thought she was okay before she saw Stacey. She was perfectly happy with Alfie and then it all went to shit once she saw Stacey. Newman's repair job flushed down the toilet. And Stacey is her family.
But Stacey has borrowed so heavily from Kat it's obvious they won't work well together. They're too similar. Kat needs family who compliment her.
Oh I agree Sharon needs the Mitchells now but I equally think she could be part of another family just like the Watts family in the 80's and early 2000's. She's as good as a member of the Beale/Fowler family too and would always have them to interact with. Placing her with the Brannings was Simon Ashdown's attempt to validate his favourie family. He cut Sharon off from everyone she knew and put her with bloody Tanya and boring Jack. Kat has always had characters around her she's familiar with. That's the benefit she has from being a combo with Alfie. It still didn't make her any more appealing second time around.
Because Kirkwood was a terrible producer who completely misunderstood the character and rewrote her as a charmless bitch.
Sharon has worked extensively with a multitiude of characters over the years. Den, Ang, Michelle, Grant, Phil, Peggy, Dennis, Linda, Vicki, Fireman Tom, Chrissie, Ronnie, Roxy, Ben and more. Kat has only ever seemed to work with within the confines of the Slater/Moon family, namely Zoe and Alfie, and rarely branches out. When she does the results haven't been particularly well received (witchy friendship with Bianca, turfing Derek's daughter under the bus and of course the baby swap). I won't deny Sharon is reliant on the Mitchells now but I have no doubt she could survive if Phil left. We've already seen Sharon in different dynamics but Kat has stuck to the Slaters/Alfie throughout. She's defined by this association now whereas Sharon is/was able to flit between the Wattses, Mitchells, Beales and Fowlers as well as characters like Dot. It just comes off as forced when the writers move Kat out of her comfort zone. She didn't have one friend on the show until Bianca and they were a pair of bitches together.
This is a millennium issue not a Kat issue. Just think of how insular the Carters are. Mick should be a pillar of the community but instead he's a Billy no mates whose only friends are his wife and kids.
Actually something Lorraine Newman did do was open up Kat's character interaction and I thought it worked well. Once out of the pub she had good scenes with Michael, Janine, Ronnie, Roxy, Whitney, Alice. Bianca is an annoyance but that's not Kat's fault.
In the Den death plot in 2005 Kat had some fantastic scenes with Sam and Chrissie. She's very capable of working well with other characters but EastEnders has become increasingly obsessed with keeping characters in specific blocks.
I agree Kat is the greatest character since 2000. But, as with Angie Watts, I think less would be more. I've not been impressed with Kat from 2010 to 2015. There was nothing worth coming back for and her legacy is tarnished.
Kat 2010 to 2015 wasn't anywhere near as good as Kat 2000 to 2005 I agree, but from 2013 onwards I think she's still been a valuable and watchable character. The convent episode reminded me why I still bother watching.
The twin son does seem like a last roll of the dice with Kat but I think the risk is worth it. She's their one really iconic character of modern times but just needs a bit of direction to get the best out of her.
This is true. I can see you understand where I'm coming from even if we disagree:)
Oh absolutely, you're bored of Kat and I'm certainly not going to change your mind and I'm not trying too! We just disagree is all.
I can't see that lasting too long can you?:p
I think it will. Obviously one of the problems with EastEnders is the constant change of producers with different ideas so a new direction could be put in place for a character only for the next guy to ignore it but I think the money is there for a reason and it is key to giving the character a new direction.
If any producer was going to kill off Alfie and keep Kat it would be DTC. He's a fanboy at heart who doesn't know when to stop. In fact I agree DTC himself likely values Kat above Alfie. He was quick to kick Alfie out of The Vic when he became EP. Kat never needed The Vic to function but Alfie is a spare part without it.
I don't agree with everything DTC thinks, but Kat is a much better character than Alfie so she should be valued more highly than him. DTC has that one right.
When it comes down to it, THIS. There are only a few characters I love these days and Kat is still one of them.
I meant to add to a previous post, I don't think Alfie needs to die for Kat to develop well. An excellent episode was dedicated to her moving on from her child abuse, she has £1 million and she has a new 30 year old son so there's loads to work with. Alfie is annoying but Kat needs the fun, happy, smiley side to her too. God knows why but Alfie makes her happy. I think DTC will kill him though because why else give him a brain tumour?
Kat can and will if she stays in EE become the next generation Pat. Pat was a right one in her youth and the nasty women that came into EE developed into the Pat the viewers came to love. Kat has to move on from Alfie. She needs to develop into the matriarch she is destined to be. Alfie is stuck in noughties and his lightweight character is now irritating. He'll always be father to her twins so return stints are possible but not as a long term character. That's assuming he doesn't peg it which is the obvious way to create Kat as the strong matriarch to three sons.
Comments
Yes, I pretty much agree with this and what many others have said.
Kat is a stronger character than Alfie and has more potential to be salvaged if she is on her own but although she had improved a lot over the past couple of years (especially in 2013) it is so hard to forget the travesty they made of her character 2010-2012 so I find it incredibly hard to care about her or the various traumas she endures now. And i actually hate that they rewarded them with a lottery win. Retcon or not, I am also really, really nervous about this second twin, secret son plot and where it will take us. It's only a feeling but i think it will end up involving a lot of other characters like Jean and Brian Slater (that ruddy key) and trash what we know of the Slaters history in the same way DTC has recently done to the Mitchell's and Watts to get Kathy back in.
Maybe a little mean but I think a lot of people would agree with you.
I think this poll needed a 'looking forward to Kat but NOT Alfie' option given some of the responses.
No, they haven't done the spin off yet. They're only returning for a few weeks so they can set the spin off up and then they'll be on their way to Ireland. The spin off will be filmed this coming Spring and will be televised late 2016. After that we don't know but I hope Kat returns permanently.
I agree with you here. I think the majority view is yes bring Kat back and NO to Alfie! I'd like to see Kat as a wealthy widow too. What I don't want to see is someone random fleecing Kat for all her money. I think Kat should start up a business in the Square, something classy and something very Kat but I'm not sure what.
Ok thanks.
It is indeed quite mean and I disagree that there should have been a Kat but not Alfie option as that's not what the OP asked and why would Kat come back alone unless Alfie had already died?
I'm assuming that their return will be more about Kat than Alfie seeing how the secret son is to do with her alone and nothing to do with Alfie but seeing as they are still together what would the be the point of her returning alone unless something had happened to Alfie or they'd split up?
As for the OP's question,yes, I AM looking forward to their return. I can't wait!:p:p:p
Two words never before used in a sentence together.
So who was that gobby bird with the fake tan and leopard print who tottered around the Square in 2000 - 2002?
I don't think Kat needs Alfie. During her successful first spell it was always her relationship with Zoe that was her most important and character defining. I think Kat's a bit like Sharon in that she works best with family around her and I think it's something DTC and his team understand.
The problem is since 2010 Kat hasn't really had much in the way of family so if her and Alfie were to split she'd become fairly isolated, they've revolved around each other because there isn't anybody else they're strongly connected to, but the twin son seems to be a plan to address that and reinvent her position.
There were three seemingly unrelated plot strands set up for Kat earlier in the year: the twin, the lottery win and Alfie's cancer. With DTC you know these are all going to tie together at some point and it will become apparent why all three were necessary.
As long as Alfie is alive Kat will want to be with him, but killing him off closes that chapter for good and allows the character to move on. But then she's a single mother and in danger of morphing into Bianca II and nobody wants another Bianca. Giving her wealth prevents that and will enable her to run her own business giving her new status and position on the Square. But then she's too isolated, so giving her an adult son and maybe grandchildren too and suddenly she has her own family built around, just like when she was at her most successful. That's the key I think, trying to recapture what made her such a legend.
This direction makes far more sense for Kat than trying to turn a lone wolf like Shirley into a matriarchal figure. Family has always been in the bones of Kat, it's part of her character make-up. It's currently dormant and unutilised, but it's there and opening that side up again will return her to her roots. I think Kat has more potential now than she's had in years.
Kat because of the ridiculous secret son storyline. How can you not know you had a son come out of your.......well you know. It's a ridiculous retcon of a storyline and utterly stupid.
(That said, if it weren't for that stupid June Whitfield doof doof suggesting that then I'd be happy for a Kat return. It would be a new chapter for her and with her new wealth it provides possibilities for her as a character to develop into a new Kat.)
Alfie because despite potential upcoming stories with him I just feel he is a broken record now. His character has run its course now by some time.
I assume she was unconscious. A small thirteen year old girl trying to push out twins without pain relief... I'll wait for the explanation but it's not impossible.
So you should have included an "undecided" category to yes / no.
The one thing DTC has done apart from "ruining" several of the characters - is to keep everyone guessing - even with the spoilers. There are so many twists and turns followed by storyblocking where other storylines have their chances at twisting and turning that it is almost anyones guess where some of the plotlines are going.
I'm not surprised. With the extreme storyblocking I often forget about characters currently on the show! I was looking at some upcoming spoilers and realised I had forgotten all about Stacey, Shabnam, Kush and martin.
That was 13 years ago. That verion of Kat is never coming back. It's like expecting Sharon to start wearing fluffy jumpers and a poodle perm again or Billy Mitchell to start beating the crap out of Jay. The character has moved on....to Alfie. Poor cow.
Kat needs Alfie in exactly the same way she needed Zoe. She isn't a standalone character who can bounce off others and never will be. A character like Pat is someone you can place in any dynamic because she can work in any situation. Kat is limited by her childhood abuse, Zoe and Alfie. That's why it always comes back to her being damaged goods, babies and Alfie. Sharon can interact with pretty much anyone and it works. Just look at Thursday's episode. Her problem is she was a spare part because all her family were dead and she was only brought back to boost the raitngs. It all worked out for Sharon in the end whereas Kat's return was a misfirefrom beginning to end and I include the twin she didn't notice she'd given birth to in that assessment.
Alfie and Kat had an enire family brought in for them in 2010. They were crap but at least they were there to interact with. All she did was moan and spit venom for years as well as drop her knickers over and over again. She's a limited character. This twin storyline is a jump the shark moment if ever I saw it. The last desperate attempt to make her work.
I used to love Kat but I think she's had her day. I'm not interested in any of this stuff she has coming up and I won't watch the spin off. Her story concluded perfectly 10 years ago and should have been left there. Again, this twin storyline is a joke and a desperate attempt to give her something to do. If family was the issue with Kat she'd have been given a purpose a lot sooner than now. Sharon managed it in record time as did Pat on several occasions. The issue with Kat is that there's only so many places a character defined by such awful things can be taken before it's going over old ground. 5 years of it was enough. Another 5 years of unrelenting misery was not required and did nothing but make it look like Groundhog Day every time Kat and Alfie appeared.
If Alfie dies than Kat moves on with 3 toddlers and no husband. For a character who thrives on misery she isn't going to be setting up home with a new man and a life of luxury. Bianca Part 2 is all that will happen. What made Kat such a legend is the Zoe story. The way they're trying to rehash it is insulting and cheap. I know no one wants to admit it but Alfie is more valued than Kat. When Shane Richie left in 2005 they wrote Kat out rather than keep her on. It will always be Kat and Alfie together because that's the way the people in charge see them. A pair. I also don't see Jessie Wallace being in the show without Shane Richie. Either she'll go or she'll be written out alongside him again.
I agree about Shirley being miscast as a matriarch and I agree Kat revolves around her family. The problem is Alfie has been her family on screen longer than any of the Slaters and certainly longer than the invisible twin. I hate Alfie and Shane Richie gets on my nerves but realistically Kat without Alfie ended in 2002 and won't be coming back.
Oh of course not and I wouldn't want her to come back either. She's 45 now and her writing needs to reflect that but that was the bones of the character, the origins, the building blocks so it's not something I'd disregard. Looking at who the character really was/is and then rebuilding her from that is quite clever in my opinion, even though it's in some ways obvious.
I don't really agree. They tried to place Sharon with the Brannings and it failed. Kat isn't the character she once was but neither is Sharon, I do think she needs the Mitchells now unfortunately. Kat's return was a misfire because Kirkwood ignored all of her character development and had her behave like a total bitch until the audience fell out of love with her.
I don't think either Sharon or Kat are dependent on specific characters but they do need family to be at their most effective. There is nothing wrong with that, it's a family based soap after all.
A crap family who were worse to interact with than the Brannings were for Sharon and Sharon struggled with the Brannings. I think Kat is probably the one great character they've created all millennium but one person's Queen is another person's crap.
I understand. You're no longer interested in the character and I think sometimes when you reach that point with somebody it wouldn't really matter what they do. I think she still has a lot of potential despite the mistakes made upon her return but I can see why for others she's been irreparably damaged.
I would say the reason they didn't find solutions sooner with the character is because neither Kirkwood nor Newman were talented producers, and DTC understandably made other characters his priority before Kat. Once he got round to her he seemed to quickly understand one of the problems and has sought to rectify it.
I don't think so. Bianca was all about being a single mother on the breadline, scrimping and saving to take care of her kids. Kat is now one of the wealthiest characters they have.
But Jessie Wallace wanted to leave in 2005 and even if that producer did value Shane Richie more highly doesn't mean it would be the case in 2015 under DTC. Story developments and episodes such as the convent one certainly indicate it's Kat who is now valued more highly of the two. Surely whoever it was ten years ago is now irrelevant.
But haven't they tried to repair Kat quite a few times in the last 5 years? How many more times can she be supposedly fixed only to go back to being crap again? For what it's worth I thought she was okay before she saw Stacey. She was perfectly happy with Alfie and then it all went to shit once she saw Stacey. Newman's repair job flushed down the toilet. And Stacey is her family.
Oh I agree Sharon needs the Mitchells now but I equally think she could be part of another family just like the Watts family in the 80's and early 2000's. She's as good as a member of the Beale/Fowler family too and would always have them to interact with. Placing her with the Brannings was Simon Ashdown's attempt to validate his favourie family. He cut Sharon off from everyone she knew and put her with bloody Tanya and boring Jack. Kat has always had characters around her she's familiar with. That's the benefit she has from being a combo with Alfie. It still didn't make her any more appealing second time around.
Sharon has worked extensively with a multitiude of characters over the years. Den, Ang, Michelle, Grant, Phil, Peggy, Dennis, Linda, Vicki, Fireman Tom, Chrissie, Ronnie, Roxy, Ben and more. Kat has only ever seemed to work with within the confines of the Slater/Moon family, namely Zoe and Alfie, and rarely branches out. When she does the results haven't been particularly well received (witchy friendship with Bianca, turfing Derek's daughter under the bus and of course the baby swap). I won't deny Sharon is reliant on the Mitchells now but I have no doubt she could survive if Phil left. We've already seen Sharon in different dynamics but Kat has stuck to the Slaters/Alfie throughout. She's defined by this association now whereas Sharon is/was able to flit between the Wattses, Mitchells, Beales and Fowlers as well as characters like Dot. It just comes off as forced when the writers move Kat out of her comfort zone. She didn't have one friend on the show until Bianca and they were a pair of bitches together.
I agree Kat is the greatest character since 2000. But, as with Angie Watts, I think less would be more. I've not been impressed with Kat from 2010 to 2015. There was nothing worth coming back for and her legacy is tarnished.
This is true. I can see you understand where I'm coming from even if we disagree:)
I can't see that lasting too long can you?:p
If any producer was going to kill off Alfie and keep Kat it would be DTC. He's a fanboy at heart who doesn't know when to stop. In fact I agree DTC himself likely values Kat above Alfie. He was quick to kick Alfie out of The Vic when he became EP. Kat never needed The Vic to function but Alfie is a spare part without it.
I wouldn't say so. They tried to repair her once before under Newman and I think that was successful under the circumstances.
I don't think this has repeatedly happened. None of the characters are consistently good anymore, I just accept that EastEnders' best years are gone and so even the best characters are up and down.
But Stacey has borrowed so heavily from Kat it's obvious they won't work well together. They're too similar. Kat needs family who compliment her.
Because Kirkwood was a terrible producer who completely misunderstood the character and rewrote her as a charmless bitch.
This is a millennium issue not a Kat issue. Just think of how insular the Carters are. Mick should be a pillar of the community but instead he's a Billy no mates whose only friends are his wife and kids.
Actually something Lorraine Newman did do was open up Kat's character interaction and I thought it worked well. Once out of the pub she had good scenes with Michael, Janine, Ronnie, Roxy, Whitney, Alice. Bianca is an annoyance but that's not Kat's fault.
In the Den death plot in 2005 Kat had some fantastic scenes with Sam and Chrissie. She's very capable of working well with other characters but EastEnders has become increasingly obsessed with keeping characters in specific blocks.
Kat 2010 to 2015 wasn't anywhere near as good as Kat 2000 to 2005 I agree, but from 2013 onwards I think she's still been a valuable and watchable character. The convent episode reminded me why I still bother watching.
The twin son does seem like a last roll of the dice with Kat but I think the risk is worth it. She's their one really iconic character of modern times but just needs a bit of direction to get the best out of her.
Oh absolutely, you're bored of Kat and I'm certainly not going to change your mind and I'm not trying too! We just disagree is all.
I think it will. Obviously one of the problems with EastEnders is the constant change of producers with different ideas so a new direction could be put in place for a character only for the next guy to ignore it but I think the money is there for a reason and it is key to giving the character a new direction.
I don't agree with everything DTC thinks, but Kat is a much better character than Alfie so she should be valued more highly than him. DTC has that one right.
When it comes down to it, THIS. There are only a few characters I love these days and Kat is still one of them.
I meant to add to a previous post, I don't think Alfie needs to die for Kat to develop well. An excellent episode was dedicated to her moving on from her child abuse, she has £1 million and she has a new 30 year old son so there's loads to work with. Alfie is annoying but Kat needs the fun, happy, smiley side to her too. God knows why but Alfie makes her happy. I think DTC will kill him though because why else give him a brain tumour?
No