Just another anti EU thread started on the back of something that wasn't said and didn't happen. Sadly this will be a regular occurrence on here.
According to Tory newspapers it was said and it did happen
David Cameron has prompted anger by telling his MPs to ignore the views of eurosceptic grassroots members and Conservative associations ahead of the European Union referendum.
The Prime Minister warned backbenchers not to take a view on the vote “because of what your constituency association might say”.
He told his MPs to “do what’s in your heart” rather than what “might be advantageous this way or that way”.
Which is not what the thread title suggests. Believe me I am no Tory or supporter of this rather useless PM but I heard him say this live on TV and there wasn't a hint or suggestion that he was asking MPS to ignore voters, just ignore pressure from association members who may threaten deselection.
He hasn't said what the OP claims but he has told his MPs to ignore constituency associations, which he no doubt views as being Eurosceptic, and vote with "what's in your heart". It is hardly surprising as Cameron was always for staying in the EU and his re-negotiations were merely a means for him to reinforce that position while giving the impression he got substantial reforms.
Ultimately the members of those constituency associations will get their own vote and they will I suspect mostly be voting NO.
Which is not what the thread title suggests. Believe me I am no Tory or supporter of this rather useless PM but I heard him say this live on TV and there wasn't a hint or suggestion that he was asking MPS to ignore voters, just ignore pressure from association members who may threaten deselection.
The OP can only go off the headlines in the newspapers and that is what the newspapers are claiming.
you asked for a link and I obliged, I did not give an opinion. I am confused as to why the Tory press would be up in arms over this though.
Personally I am on Camerons side on this one, I think we should stay in the EU
I am not sure how I will vote am still pondering. I voted NO in 1975. I am going to make up my own mind. I don't think that Cameron got a particularly good deal.
It was the Mail that used the inaccurate/misquoted headline that the OP did not even link to...mind you according to the Mail Oswald Moseley wasn't such a bad chap either ;-)
I am not sure how I will vote am still pondering. I voted NO in 1975. I am going to make up my own mind. I don't think that Cameron got a particularly good deal.
He hasn't got it yet! it could all go terribly pear shaped. I suspect he has pretty much got as good a deal as he was likely to get in the circumstances. There was and is no way the EU would approve something diametrically at odds with its fundamental principles of non-discrimination to EU citizens and limitations on free movement. I suspect the other agreements are just words too that the EU and its members (or indeed a future more euro-centric UK government) will think they can just ignore in future anyway.
Hameron needs a lesson on the British Constitution. Part of an MP's role is to represent their constituents. Hard to do that if they don't listen to them.
There is no such thing as the British constitution, LakieLady, its just an invention of the British establishment. They do as they like.
Like lightening, the Tory cavalry try to turn a thread about Cameron into a thread about Labour. 5/10 for effort, 1/10 for effectiveness, 10/10 for loyalty.
It's a valid comparison, has it touched a nerve then?
I am not sure how I will vote am still pondering. I voted NO in 1975. I am going to make up my own mind. I don't think that Cameron got a particularly good deal.
I didn't want to join the EU either in 1975, but now we have joined don't we depend on EU countries for trade and won't it be harder to trade with countries not in the EU ?
It's a valid comparison, has it touched a nerve then?
No, I just find it funny that the Tory fanboys and fan girls cannot abide any negativity about the Conservatives and have to deflect. It's back to the old 3 point defence - attack tho OP, discredit the source and then deflect on to Labour. Quite sweet that the strategy hasn't changed over the years.
I didn't want to join the EU either in 1975, but now we have joined don't we depend on EU countries for trade and won't it be harder to trade with countries not in the EU ?
As I said I am pondering and really do not know yet how I will vote. When the campaigns begin in earnest I will listen and then decide.
I didn't want to join the EU either in 1975, but now we have joined don't we depend on EU countries for trade and won't it be harder to trade with countries not in the EU ?
We managed to trade with everyone before we joined the EEC in 1973 so I see no reason why we wouldn't post Brexit.
It is quite a straightforward decision. Do you want to be part of an expanding and more centrist EU with more powers being transferred from member states and the UK paying very large sums of money to subsidise other member states in what is basically overseas aid or do you want to be an independent country that is able to make its own decisions and laws without 27 other members saying if it can or not?
As I said I am pondering and really do not know yet how I will vote. When the campaigns begin in earnest I will listen and then decide.
That's probably the best way.
I wonder in what forms the campaigns will be run, will there be 'for and against' debates between pro and anti MP's. I can't see there be any between Cameron and Corbyn because they are both for staying in.
Comments
It might be it just depends on your view of the tory press I supposed
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12139252/David-Cameron-prompts-anger-by-telling-MPs-to-ignore-the-views-of-eurosceptic-grassroots-members.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3430848/Ignore-constituents-Cameron-tells-MPs-PM-issues-controversial-orders-survey-shows-support-campaign-Tory-grassroots.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/641057/EU-referendum-David-Cameron-Tory-MPs-ignore-voters-vote-Brussels-Brexit
According to Tory newspapers it was said and it did happen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12139252/David-Cameron-prompts-anger-by-telling-MPs-to-ignore-the-views-of-eurosceptic-grassroots-members.html
He is telling his M.P.s to make their own minds up. Wow!
Local Labour Parties and Conservative Associations will come to their own decisions as has always been the case.
Individuals in the constituencies will make their individual minds up regardless of the local advice and the local M.P. will make his or her mind up.
That's what referenda are for. Individuals voting not parties not associations.
Which is not what the thread title suggests. Believe me I am no Tory or supporter of this rather useless PM but I heard him say this live on TV and there wasn't a hint or suggestion that he was asking MPS to ignore voters, just ignore pressure from association members who may threaten deselection.
Ultimately the members of those constituency associations will get their own vote and they will I suspect mostly be voting NO.
you asked for a link and I obliged, I did not give an opinion. I am confused as to why the Tory press would be up in arms over this though.
Personally I am on Camerons side on this one, I think we should stay in the EU
The OP can only go off the headlines in the newspapers and that is what the newspapers are claiming.
I am not sure how I will vote am still pondering. I voted NO in 1975. I am going to make up my own mind. I don't think that Cameron got a particularly good deal.
I just chose the most amusing headline, I could quite have easily chose the one from the Independent which is worded slightly different.
No. He can go on what was said rather than regurgitate rubbish.
There is no such thing as the British constitution, LakieLady, its just an invention of the British establishment. They do as they like.
Where would have been the fun in that?
Most MPs do once they get elected and that's not just confined to the Tories they all like to get back too snouts in the trough as soon as possible.
It's a valid comparison, has it touched a nerve then?
Which does not alter the fact that you are ignorant of the difference between Conservative Associations and constituents. Nothing to laugh about.
What did he say?
I can't find any reference to his actual words anywhere just what he is supposed to have said, in a letter I think
That depends on who and what I am laughing at surely?
I didn't want to join the EU either in 1975, but now we have joined don't we depend on EU countries for trade and won't it be harder to trade with countries not in the EU ?
No, I just find it funny that the Tory fanboys and fan girls cannot abide any negativity about the Conservatives and have to deflect. It's back to the old 3 point defence - attack tho OP, discredit the source and then deflect on to Labour. Quite sweet that the strategy hasn't changed over the years.
As I said I am pondering and really do not know yet how I will vote. When the campaigns begin in earnest I will listen and then decide.
We managed to trade with everyone before we joined the EEC in 1973 so I see no reason why we wouldn't post Brexit.
It is quite a straightforward decision. Do you want to be part of an expanding and more centrist EU with more powers being transferred from member states and the UK paying very large sums of money to subsidise other member states in what is basically overseas aid or do you want to be an independent country that is able to make its own decisions and laws without 27 other members saying if it can or not?
That's probably the best way.
I wonder in what forms the campaigns will be run, will there be 'for and against' debates between pro and anti MP's. I can't see there be any between Cameron and Corbyn because they are both for staying in.