I haven't actually said I don't accept there was room on the train, IMO Corbyn sat on the floor and did the filming to highlight the fact that many commuters do travel like that because there are no seats.
It's a shame really that Virgin trains and the media and others have done their best to negate this very important point that he was trying to make.
Jetemy actually said " this train is completely ram packed today " and that was untrue. He wasn't sitting on the floor because there were no seats but because he did not want to be parted from ahisin wife.
I agree with you that it s tragic that a very important issue has been subverted and debased by a silly publicity stunt about " this train....today". Jeremy was daft to use those words and his team should have stiopped him. They are playing with the big boys and girls now, not waving a few placards around and shouting very loudly.
The original report published on the 11th August and reported in The Guardian on the 16th August does not mention which train company Corbyn is travelling with. But from the gist of it I take it he was talking about overcrowding on all trains not just Virgin trains
So are Virgin trains the only company that do that off-peak Inter-City train ?
1)If they are then why did it take them so long to make an issue over it ?
2) If there are other train companies who do this off-peak Inter-City train then how did they find out the filming was done on a Virgin media train ?
No. He said " this train is completely ram packed today". He was not just talking about overcrowding on all trains, he specifically mentioned that particular train. If he wants to see ram packing, he should try a commuter train. There he would not have had the luxury of being able to sit on the floor or reading his paper. He would be standing pressed tight against the other passengers.
By highlighting somethingthat is a problem for many people every day?
Isn't that his job as the leader of the opposition
Nah, he got this one completely wrong, gummy. Sorry. The train he was on was nowhere near ram packed. And he said " this train today". He needs to get much better at this sort of thing because communicating effectively is absolutely essential. This is all really basic stuff. Now he has made the whole issue a bit of a joke and put the debate back >:(
The original report published on the 11th August and reported in The Guardian on the 16th August does not mention which train company Corbyn is travelling with. But from the gist of it I take it he was talking about overcrowding on all trains not just Virgin trains
Can you show us an actual quote by JC or anyone else who was on the train stating that he walked past loads of empty single seats?
Maybe there were one or two single seats left and he told his wife and other staff to take them and that he would wait till the next station to sit down.
Unfortunately the photos Virgin released are not clear enough to see whether seats were actually empty or not.
Nah, you are trying too hard now Susie. There is no maybe....it's done and dusted now. If there was any of the things you suggest, Corbyn had loads of opportunities to explain and all he did was look shifty and mumble something about looking for a double seat. No mention of giving any seats to the others etc, you are just reaching now and making stuff up. Even he has given it up. Time to let it and accept that Corbyn messed it up.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but just looking at the CCTV footage again, when Corbyn DOES sit down, it is on the outside of two seats, the inner one looks unoccupied. So where was his wife? Or is she a dwarf? :-)
The original report told you it was the London to Newcastle train. That is run by Virgin.
Thank you for the clarification. Never having travelled from London to Newcastle I have no idea who runs this service, which is why I asked the question.
..... Now he has made the whole issue a bit of a joke and put the debate back >:(
He's only reponsible to the extent that he participated. I haven't heard/read too many protests that we must drop this discussion and concentrate on the important issue of "rail nationalisation".
The primary motivation at play is, in my opinion, to try to cast doubt on the integrity of Jeremy Corbyn, who is seen by many as more principled than most of his opponents.
People are entitled to discuss what they wish, of course. They're choosing to discuss this issue in higher volume to any policy discussions.
Now John McDonnell has called for Richard Branson to be stripped of his knighthood on the grounds that his intervention "undermine our democracy" after Virgin trains released footage disputing Mr Corbyn's claims about overcrowding on one of its services..
Has John McDonnell completely lost the plot! No politician no matter what side of the house is above reproach. Lying about something is just as much undermining democracy - they got caught out in a lie - and were called on it.
Even more stupid when you consider that railways are over crowded so there was no need to lie about the service he was one and say otherwise.
He's only reponsible to the extent that he participated. I haven't heard/read too many protests that we must drop this discussion and concentrate on the important issue of "rail nationalisation".
The primary motivation at play is, in my opinion, to try to cast doubt on the integrity of Jeremy Corbyn, who is seen by many as more principled than most of his opponents.
People are entitled to discuss what they wish, of course. They're choosing to discuss this issue in higher volume to any policy discussions.
I think it is being discussed is for two reasons.
First, it is August (silly season) and this is a classic silly season story which at most other times of the year would have died the same day.
However, the second reason is the fact that Corbyns integrity and 'different' approach to politics are 'rammed' down our throats and the truth is he tried to pull off a publicity stunt to push a policy agenda.
I do feel sorry for Corbyn because I think the people around him are giving him very bad advice, but if he is leadership material (he isn't) then he needs to take responsibility for these mistakes.
Now John McDonnell has called for Richard Branson to be stripped of his knighthood on the grounds that his intervention "undermine our democracy" after Virgin trains released footage disputing Mr Corbyn's claims about overcrowding on one of its services..
Has John McDonnell completely lost the plot! No politician no matter what side of the house is above reproach. Lying about something is just as much undermining democracy - they got caught out in a lie - and were called on it.
He's doing an absolutely fantastic job of keeping the issue at the top of the news cycle, so that everyone keeps talking about it. I also love how he can't tolerate "dissent" - as if no one is allowed to question or refute what Dear Leader has to say. Very Iron Curtain.
Can you show us an actual quote by JC or anyone else who was on the train stating that he walked past loads of empty single seats?
Maybe there were one or two single seats left and he told his wife and other staff to take them and that he would wait till the next station to sit down.
Unfortunately the photos Virgin released are not clear enough to see whether seats were actually empty or not.
So why was his wife not sitting with him when they found seats together ? And why did Momentum claim there were no empty seats at all ?
The photos are very clear but there are none so blind as those who refuse to see
I haven't actually said I don't accept there was room on the train, IMO Corbyn sat on the floor and did the filming to highlight the fact that many commuters do travel like that because there are no seats.
It's a shame really that Virgin trains and the media and others have done their best to negate this very important point that he was trying to make.
No , Mr Corbyn implied he had to sit on the floor as there was nowhere else. His support team Momentum then categorically denied there was a seat free on the train despite Corbyn admitting there was. Any point he might have tried to make has been overshadowed by his deliberate attempt at manipulating the truth on that occasion
It always interests me how these threads roll on and on, those that are against Corbyn would have gotten bored by now and given up if it weren't for those that prefer Corbyn trying to justify or explain.
And it works exactly the same for any other political preferences,I can remember other threads on here that exceeded their expected length, simply because people felt that needed to excuse, justify or explain the actions of their chosen man/woman.
The original report published on the 11th August and reported in The Guardian on the 16th August does not mention which train company Corbyn is travelling with. But from the gist of it I take it he was talking about overcrowding on all trains not just Virgin trains
No, he was clerly referring to THAT train being "ram-packed", and THAT train where he could not find a seat (later changed to "two seats together"). The train operator was easily identified from the route.
So are Virgin trains the only company that do that off-peak Inter-City train ?
No, but he was referring to conditions on that THAT train, conditions about which he chose be less than honest about until much later
First, it is August (silly season) and this is a classic silly season story which at most other times of the year would have died the same day.
However, the second reason is the fact that Corbyns integrity and 'different' approach to politics are 'rammed' down our throats and the truth is he tried to pull off a publicity stunt to push a policy agenda.
I do feel sorry for Corbyn because I think the people around him are giving him very bad advice, but if he is leadership material (he isn't) then he needs to take responsibility for these mistakes.
Yes you are exactly right! Especially about his team. I heard one news commentator saying they too often try to pull off a story by orchestrating a stunt but they are very careful not to mention any particular thing but to keep it general, to make a general point. The fact that Corbyn said " this train..today" was a rookie mistake, unbelievable that any Leader's team, worth their salt, would have allowed that to go ahead. Their antenna should have been vibrating like mad. And then they should have killed the story dead, instead they keep giving it the oxygen of publicity and reminding people that he had a seat for most of the journey. These are seriously incompetent people on his team.
I do feel sorry for Corbyn because I think the people around him are giving him very bad advice, but if he is leadership material (he isn't) then he needs to take responsibility for these mistakes.
I agree in part with your comment, but IMO the trouble is none of the MP's who do have leadership material put their names forward, and the two people who did ( Smith and Eagle ) are as far as I am concerned even worse than Corbyn as far as leadership material goes.
I agree in part with your comment, but IMO the trouble is none of the MP's who do have leadership material put their names forward, and the two people who did ( Smith and Eagle ) are as far as I am concerned even worse than Corbyn as far as leadership material goes.
I think anyone else would employ proper PR professionals rather than Emma from Momentum to handle their message so that he doesn't make so many gaffes. But Cirbyn can't do that as he wants to be surrounded by ' real' people who have no more idea how to produce a coherent media narrative than you or I would!
Thank you for the clarification. Never having travelled from London to Newcastle I have no idea who runs this service, which is why I asked the question.
Oh I do recommend that journey, gummy! You must try the East Coast line all the way to Scotland, it's so uplifting - you will never regret seeing Durham Cathedral from your seat , and the coastline, there is lots of lovely scenery along the way. Some beautiful stations too. Just book a seat (window) beforehand. If you get your ticket three months in advance, prices are very affordable, you can even get a FC seat for around 30 pounds. Enjoy
I think anyone else would employ proper PR professionals rather than Emma from Momentum to handle their message so that he doesn't make so many gaffes. But Cirbyn can't do that as he wants to be surrounded by ' real' people who have no more idea how to produce a coherent media narrative than you or I would!
I think anyone else would employ proper PR professionals rather than Emma from Momentum to handle their message so that he doesn't make so many gaffes. But Cirbyn can't do that as he wants to be surrounded by ' real' people who have no more idea how to produce a coherent media narrative than you or I would!
Thing is Corbyn has been an MP for over 30 years, and presumably has some idea how the PR side works these days, if only from observing other MPs or party leaders over that time, even on TV, and how they handle the media? So how come he and his team make amateur mistakes? Is he trying so hard to be a 'man of the people' he doesn't care and wants to be seen as flawed so he's 'like us' or simply unable to see how any words or action might come across to someone outside his personal bubble? And why bother with advisors if they can't protect him from serious screw-ups?
Oh I do recommend that journey, gummy! You must try the East Coast line all the way to Scotland, it's so uplifting - you will never regret seeing Durham Cathedral from your seat , and the coastline, there is lots of lovely scenery along the way. Some beautiful stations too. Just book a seat (window) beforehand. If you get your ticket three months in advance, prices are very affordable, you can even get a FC seat for around 30 pounds. Enjoy
You get to see York Minster and the Angel of the North too. Not at the same time.
Thing is Corbyn has been an MP for over 30 years, and presumably has some idea how the PR side works these days, if only from observing other MPs or party leaders over that time, even on TV, and how they handle the media? So how come he and his team make amateur mistakes? Is he trying so hard to be a 'man of the people' he doesn't care and wants to be seen as flawed so he's 'like us' or simply unable to see how any words or action might come across to someone outside his personal bubble? And why bother with advisors if they can't protect him from serious screw-ups?
Corbyn and Momentum think of all that as "Westminster Bubble" stuff and despise it. They don't even rate winning elections because that's what the elites think is important. They are in this for the long haul and are trying to build up a grassroots movement so that it won't matter if the hated MSM is against them. Meanwhile the rest of the country looks on, bemused, and continues to suffer.
Comments
Jetemy actually said " this train is completely ram packed today " and that was untrue. He wasn't sitting on the floor because there were no seats but because he did not want to be parted from ahisin wife.
I agree with you that it s tragic that a very important issue has been subverted and debased by a silly publicity stunt about " this train....today". Jeremy was daft to use those words and his team should have stiopped him. They are playing with the big boys and girls now, not waving a few placards around and shouting very loudly.
No. He said " this train is completely ram packed today". He was not just talking about overcrowding on all trains, he specifically mentioned that particular train. If he wants to see ram packing, he should try a commuter train. There he would not have had the luxury of being able to sit on the floor or reading his paper. He would be standing pressed tight against the other passengers.
Nah, he got this one completely wrong, gummy. Sorry. The train he was on was nowhere near ram packed. And he said " this train today". He needs to get much better at this sort of thing because communicating effectively is absolutely essential. This is all really basic stuff. Now he has made the whole issue a bit of a joke and put the debate back >:(
The original report told you it was the London to Newcastle train. That is run by Virgin.
Nah, you are trying too hard now Susie. There is no maybe....it's done and dusted now. If there was any of the things you suggest, Corbyn had loads of opportunities to explain and all he did was look shifty and mumble something about looking for a double seat. No mention of giving any seats to the others etc, you are just reaching now and making stuff up. Even he has given it up. Time to let it and accept that Corbyn messed it up.
It just gets weirder and weirder
Thank you for the clarification. Never having travelled from London to Newcastle I have no idea who runs this service, which is why I asked the question.
The primary motivation at play is, in my opinion, to try to cast doubt on the integrity of Jeremy Corbyn, who is seen by many as more principled than most of his opponents.
People are entitled to discuss what they wish, of course. They're choosing to discuss this issue in higher volume to any policy discussions.
Has John McDonnell completely lost the plot! No politician no matter what side of the house is above reproach. Lying about something is just as much undermining democracy - they got caught out in a lie - and were called on it.
Even more stupid when you consider that railways are over crowded so there was no need to lie about the service he was one and say otherwise.
See
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/shadow-chancellor-john-mcdonnell-calls-for-richard-branson-to-be-stripped-of-his-knighthood/ar-AAia5e5?ocid=spartanntp
and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37208527
I think it is being discussed is for two reasons.
First, it is August (silly season) and this is a classic silly season story which at most other times of the year would have died the same day.
However, the second reason is the fact that Corbyns integrity and 'different' approach to politics are 'rammed' down our throats and the truth is he tried to pull off a publicity stunt to push a policy agenda.
I do feel sorry for Corbyn because I think the people around him are giving him very bad advice, but if he is leadership material (he isn't) then he needs to take responsibility for these mistakes.
He's doing an absolutely fantastic job of keeping the issue at the top of the news cycle, so that everyone keeps talking about it. I also love how he can't tolerate "dissent" - as if no one is allowed to question or refute what Dear Leader has to say. Very Iron Curtain.
So why was his wife not sitting with him when they found seats together ? And why did Momentum claim there were no empty seats at all ?
The photos are very clear but there are none so blind as those who refuse to see
No , Mr Corbyn implied he had to sit on the floor as there was nowhere else. His support team Momentum then categorically denied there was a seat free on the train despite Corbyn admitting there was. Any point he might have tried to make has been overshadowed by his deliberate attempt at manipulating the truth on that occasion
It always interests me how these threads roll on and on, those that are against Corbyn would have gotten bored by now and given up if it weren't for those that prefer Corbyn trying to justify or explain.
And it works exactly the same for any other political preferences,I can remember other threads on here that exceeded their expected length, simply because people felt that needed to excuse, justify or explain the actions of their chosen man/woman.
No, but he was referring to conditions on that THAT train, conditions about which he chose be less than honest about until much later
Yes you are exactly right! Especially about his team. I heard one news commentator saying they too often try to pull off a story by orchestrating a stunt but they are very careful not to mention any particular thing but to keep it general, to make a general point. The fact that Corbyn said " this train..today" was a rookie mistake, unbelievable that any Leader's team, worth their salt, would have allowed that to go ahead. Their antenna should have been vibrating like mad. And then they should have killed the story dead, instead they keep giving it the oxygen of publicity and reminding people that he had a seat for most of the journey. These are seriously incompetent people on his team.
I agree in part with your comment, but IMO the trouble is none of the MP's who do have leadership material put their names forward, and the two people who did ( Smith and Eagle ) are as far as I am concerned even worse than Corbyn as far as leadership material goes.
I think anyone else would employ proper PR professionals rather than Emma from Momentum to handle their message so that he doesn't make so many gaffes. But Cirbyn can't do that as he wants to be surrounded by ' real' people who have no more idea how to produce a coherent media narrative than you or I would!
Oh I do recommend that journey, gummy! You must try the East Coast line all the way to Scotland, it's so uplifting - you will never regret seeing Durham Cathedral from your seat , and the coastline, there is lots of lovely scenery along the way. Some beautiful stations too. Just book a seat (window) beforehand. If you get your ticket three months in advance, prices are very affordable, you can even get a FC seat for around 30 pounds. Enjoy
Are you saying we are not 'real' people ?
I am a robot!! I am a robot!!
A very intelligent one I'm sure ,
The Borg Queen?
Thing is Corbyn has been an MP for over 30 years, and presumably has some idea how the PR side works these days, if only from observing other MPs or party leaders over that time, even on TV, and how they handle the media? So how come he and his team make amateur mistakes? Is he trying so hard to be a 'man of the people' he doesn't care and wants to be seen as flawed so he's 'like us' or simply unable to see how any words or action might come across to someone outside his personal bubble? And why bother with advisors if they can't protect him from serious screw-ups?
You get to see York Minster and the Angel of the North too. Not at the same time.
Corbyn and Momentum think of all that as "Westminster Bubble" stuff and despise it. They don't even rate winning elections because that's what the elites think is important. They are in this for the long haul and are trying to build up a grassroots movement so that it won't matter if the hated MSM is against them. Meanwhile the rest of the country looks on, bemused, and continues to suffer.
It's a lovely train journey
More like Rosie the robot maid in The Jetsons