Sunday 25th December 1988
BREAD (BBC1, 19:15) 18.0m
ONLY FOOLS AND HORSES (BBC1, 17:05) 16.6m
FILM : BACK TO THE FUTURE (BBC1, 15:10) 14.9m
NEWS AND WEATHER (BBC1, 18:25) 14.8m
THE RUSS ABBOT CHRISTMAS SHOW (BBC1, 20:30) 13.1m
10 YEARS OF ALRIGHT ON THE NIGHT (ITV, 19:45) 12.15m
A CHRISTMAS CELEBRATION - A SONGS OF PRAISE SPECIAL (BBC1, 18:30) 11.4m
FILM : SILVERADO (BBC1, 21:20) 11.0m
TOP OF THE POPS CHRISTMAS SHOW (BBC1, 14:00) 10.4m
LONDON'S BURNING (ITV, 20:45) 10.2m
CHRISTMAS BLIND DATE (ITV, 15:05) 9.7m
ONE MORE AUDIENCE WITH DAME EDNA (ITV, 22:25) 9.5m
CORONATION STREET (ITV, 19:15) 9.1m
FILM : THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (ITV, 15:55) 8.5m
CHRISTMAS MORNING WITH NOEL (BBC1, 11:00) 6.4m
SAVE THE CHILDREN WITH MICHAEL CRAWFORD (ITV, 18:05) 6.2m
IT'S A CHARITY KNOCKOUT (BBC1, 12:05) 6.2m
BULLSEYE CHRISTMAS SPECIAL (ITV, 14:15) 5.7m
Ratings not known for : The Queen (BBC1 & ITV 15:00), some news bulletins, and EastEnders Omnibus (BBC1, 13:00)
Monday 25th December 1989
FILM : CROCODILE DUNDEE (BBC1, 18:15) 21.77m
ONLY FOOLS AND HORSES (BBC1, 16:05) 20.12m
NEWS AND WEATHER (BBC1, 17:30) 17.6m
BREAD (BBC1, 15:15) 16.51m
CORONATION STREET (ITV, 20:00) 16.22m
THE QUEEN'S CHRISTMAS MESSAGE (BBC1, 15:00) 15.9m
THE RUSS ABBOT CHRISTMAS SHOW (BBC1, 17:35) 15.01m
FILM : DOWN AND OUT IN BEVERLY HILLS (ITV, 21:00) 12.4m
NEWS AND WEATHER (BBC1, 22:10) 11.6m
AFTER HENRY (ITV, 20:30) 11.58m
TOP OF THE POPS CHRISTMAS SHOW (BBC1, 14:00) 11.38m
FILM : CLOCKWISE (BBC1, 22:20) 10.94m
MISS MARPLE : A CARIBBEAN MYSTERY (BBC1, 19:50) 10.31m
IN SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH (BBC1, 21:40) 9.42m
STRIKE IT LUCKY CHRISTMAS SPECIAL (ITV, 17:40) 8.78m
COMEDY CHRISTMAS BOX (ITV, 18:30) 7.3m
DAD'S ARMY (BBC1, 12:30) (Repeat) 6.7m
THE QUEEN'S CHRISTMAS MESSAGE (ITV, 15:00) 6.2m
Ratings not known for : Noel's Christmas Presents (BBC1, 11:00), Porridge (repeat) (BBC1, 12:00), On Her Majesty's Secret Service (ITV, 12:25), Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em (repeat) (BBC1, 13:10), The B.F.G. (ITV, 15:15), Home and Away (ITV, 17:00) and ITV's news bulletins.
Looking at the Barb site update, interesting that Katie Hopkins is nowhere to be seen in the TLC top 10, w/e 30th Aug. Am assuming there *was* a Katie show on in that week...not that anyone would have noticed or cared, by the looks of it.
But it isn't in the BBC's interest to take on ITV more in terms of clashes. Ultimately they will be the ones to suffer if they were seen to be trying to kill off a commercial broadcaster. Plus ITV have their own weapons. What happens if they respond by slapping Corrie in EE slot instead of ED? Then EE would be in trouble.
Why would you do that when it would be against the terms of your charter.
I am not talking about trying to kill off anything, I am talking of healthy competition something which ITV always say they are fine with until they start to lose than they cry foul.
What I am saying is that over the years BBC have given a lot of ITV big hitters an almost clear run but there is nothing wrong with challenging them. There are lots of examples for instance of 2 dramas doing very well despite going head to head.
Fair to say that ITV have also done this with BBC big hitters too. Also while ITV have options as you put it I think BBC have far more but we dont wont an all out war because then everybody will lose.
That only shows that Cohen is useless not that there are not good arguments to be made.
Sure you havent got the ITV rose tinted specs on?
I think it certainly shows Cohen up!
Nope, pretty sure I haven't. I think you might have the BBC ones on though, given how many times you feel the need to defend them.
Whilst scheduling Strictly in later slots might damage X Factor, in the long run it is the BBC who will be damaged most if they schedule too aggressively.
Nope, pretty sure I haven't. I think you might have the BBC ones on though, given how many times you feel the need to defend them.
Whilst scheduling Strictly in later slots might damage X Factor, in the long run it is the BBC who will be damaged most if they schedule too aggressively.
Ah - but I only defend if I see an attack, especially one I dont agree with. I think this whole discussion about the 15 min clash has been blown out of all proportion and thats why I have defended so strongly.
Can you explain how SCD is being aggressively scheduled this year compared to last or is it just another assumption?
Ah - but I only defend if I see an attack, especially one I dont agree with. I think this whole discussion about the 15 min clash has been blown out of all proportion and thats why I have defended so strongly.
Can you explain how SCD is being aggressively scheduled this year compared to last or is it just another assumption?
You do tend to defend them against pretty much any allegation against them though.
I think that the fact it was down for 7pm with XF at 8.15pm in the initial exchange and then they shifted it to create a 20 minute overlap was pretty shifty. More aggressive than last year? We'll have to see as the weeks go on. But the point I was making is that too much aggressive scheduling (not just with Strictly but across the board) could well come back to haunt them and do more damage to themselves than to ITV.
What I would disagree about there is that they are as guilty as each other when 90% of the clashes are caused by ITV. Personally I would take ITV on a lot more if I were the BBC.
But it isn't in the BBC's interest to take on ITV more in terms of clashes. Ultimately they will be the ones to suffer if they were seen to be trying to kill off a commercial broadcaster. Plus ITV have their own weapons. What happens if they respond by slapping Corrie in EE slot instead of ED? Then EE would be in trouble.
Why would you do that when it would be against the terms of your charter.
Why would you "take ITV on a lot more" - there's no need to at the BBC because they have perfectly well rated shows that are strong enough to stand on their own 2 feet without looking over their shoulder at the other channel. It is more understandable for ITV to engineer clashes as they are a commercial broadcaster trying to get the highest rating figures in order to satisfy advertisers and investors. The BBC is quite the opposite - a PSB that whilst it should be looking to have healthy viewing figures for their top shows they should not be resorting to going down the avenue of point scoring - they are above that and a different model to ITV.
I agree with ...bwfc - it's not about trying to get one over a commercial channel - not behaving like that shouldn't be seen as a sign of weakness, moreso a PSB that is professional and will not rise to any bait that ITV puts out. I would think more highly of the BBC if they didn't resort to such tactics and rose above any shenanigans ITV conjures up.
If it isn't a huge sin, then why do you appear to have a problem with it?
Why are you asking me questions I have already answered? I don't have a problem with it really. The point I was defending was the pro BBC innocence view on here that has no logical reasoning attached to it with regards to this particular clash. It's a bit of a dirty tactic and it certainly makes no sense for the BBC to do it imo, especially considering that The X Factor is weak anyway. I don't see what they have to gain from it. In all likelihood this will just anger ITV and lead to them being even more agressive against EE.
No one has suggested that X Factor ratings will shoot up without clashes either to refer to another post.
No one has suggested that X Factor ratings will shoot up without clashes either to refer to another post.
Then why are the SCD/XF clashes such a big deal to ITV cheerleaders?
Programme times change all the time from the release of initial schedules (which sometimes aren't even approved by broadcasters, just the best guess of digiguide etc) and the weekend shows have no fixed slots to start with.
If the BBC insist on clashing SCD for the sake of it, ITV should begin clashing Coronation St. and Eastenders. I don't see why they shouldn't to be honest.
If the BBC and ITV can come to a reasonable agreement concerning the soaps, why not Strictly and X Factor?
SCD overlapping with XF for a short period of time isn't even the equivalent of ITV aggressively scheduling Emmerdale right across EastEnders' slot.
The equivalent would be the BBC putting EastEnders against ITV's soaps constantly, say hour long episodes on Thursday from 7.30pm and Monday and Friday from 8.00pm. The BBC when rescheduling EE or finding a slot for a rare extra episode usually avoid putting it against ITV's soaps.
Why would you "take ITV on a lot more" - there's no need to at the BBC because they have perfectly well rated shows that are strong enough to stand on their own 2 feet without looking over their shoulder at the other channel. It is more understandable for ITV to engineer clashes as they are a commercial broadcaster trying to get the highest rating figures in order to satisfy advertisers and investors. The BBC is quite the opposite - a PSB that whilst it should be looking to have healthy viewing figures for their top shows they should not be resorting to going down the avenue of point scoring - they are above that and a different model to ITV.
I agree with ...bwfc - it's not about trying to get one over a commercial channel - not behaving like that shouldn't be seen as a sign of weakness, moreso a PSB that is professional and will not rise to any bait that ITV puts out. I would think more highly of the BBC if they didn't resort to such tactics and rose above any shenanigans ITV conjures up.
I just think more competition in more slots is healthy whoever is winning. I do agree with the rest of your post though and it seems this is what the BBC usually default to.
Having said that with all the shenanigans of the last couple of years its ITV that are losing share so the BBC can sit back as ITV damages itself more than anyone else.
SCD overlapping with XF for a short period of time isn't even the equivalent of ITV aggressively scheduling Emmerdale right across EastEnders' slot.
The equivalent would be the BBC putting EastEnders against ITV's soaps constantly, say hour long episodes on Thursday from 7.30pm. The BBC when rescheduling EE or finding a slot for a rare extra episode usually avoid putting it against ITV's soaps.
The point you're missing is that EE isn't strong enough for that. Hour long episodes at 7:30 on Thursday would be responded to by either:
7pm: ED
7:30pm: CS
8pm: ED
Or just an hour long ED at 7pm when there's no Corrie. EE would be destroyed.
Also ITV don't care about whether it's equivalent or not. If the BBC annoy them they can just hit back harder with EE/CS clashes.
The point you're missing is that EE isn't strong enough for that. Hour long episodes at 7:30 on Thursday would be responded to by either:
7pm: ED
7:30pm: CS
8pm: ED
Or just an hour long ED at 7pm when there's no Corrie. EE would be destroyed.
Also ITV don't care about whether it's equivalent or not. If the BBC annoy them they can just hit back harder with EE/CS clashes.
I don't think the BBC are setting out to deliberately annoy them, they are merely refusing to hurt Strictly by airing it too early. Let's be honest, though, XF's figures are going to be pitiful with or without the clash. The soap clashes happen way more frequently and at any point in the year, the idea that they only come about through retaliation on ITV's part is very amusing.
I don't think the BBC are setting out to deliberately annoy them, they are merely refusing to hurt Strictly by airing it too early. Let's be honest, though, XF's figures are going to be pitiful with or without the clash. The soap clashes happen way more frequently and at any point in the year, the idea that they only come about through retaliation on ITV's part is very amusing.
I agree with the BIB. Again you've missed my point as I'm not saying that the soap clashes are a retaliation. Nor are the Strictly ones. But ITV could retaliate by being even more aggressive against EE. It's not worth that risk for the BBC when they gain very little from it.
Comments
BREAD (BBC1, 19:15) 18.0m
ONLY FOOLS AND HORSES (BBC1, 17:05) 16.6m
FILM : BACK TO THE FUTURE (BBC1, 15:10) 14.9m
NEWS AND WEATHER (BBC1, 18:25) 14.8m
THE RUSS ABBOT CHRISTMAS SHOW (BBC1, 20:30) 13.1m
10 YEARS OF ALRIGHT ON THE NIGHT (ITV, 19:45) 12.15m
A CHRISTMAS CELEBRATION - A SONGS OF PRAISE SPECIAL (BBC1, 18:30) 11.4m
FILM : SILVERADO (BBC1, 21:20) 11.0m
TOP OF THE POPS CHRISTMAS SHOW (BBC1, 14:00) 10.4m
LONDON'S BURNING (ITV, 20:45) 10.2m
CHRISTMAS BLIND DATE (ITV, 15:05) 9.7m
ONE MORE AUDIENCE WITH DAME EDNA (ITV, 22:25) 9.5m
CORONATION STREET (ITV, 19:15) 9.1m
FILM : THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (ITV, 15:55) 8.5m
CHRISTMAS MORNING WITH NOEL (BBC1, 11:00) 6.4m
SAVE THE CHILDREN WITH MICHAEL CRAWFORD (ITV, 18:05) 6.2m
IT'S A CHARITY KNOCKOUT (BBC1, 12:05) 6.2m
BULLSEYE CHRISTMAS SPECIAL (ITV, 14:15) 5.7m
Ratings not known for : The Queen (BBC1 & ITV 15:00), some news bulletins, and EastEnders Omnibus (BBC1, 13:00)
FILM : CROCODILE DUNDEE (BBC1, 18:15) 21.77m
ONLY FOOLS AND HORSES (BBC1, 16:05) 20.12m
NEWS AND WEATHER (BBC1, 17:30) 17.6m
BREAD (BBC1, 15:15) 16.51m
CORONATION STREET (ITV, 20:00) 16.22m
THE QUEEN'S CHRISTMAS MESSAGE (BBC1, 15:00) 15.9m
THE RUSS ABBOT CHRISTMAS SHOW (BBC1, 17:35) 15.01m
FILM : DOWN AND OUT IN BEVERLY HILLS (ITV, 21:00) 12.4m
NEWS AND WEATHER (BBC1, 22:10) 11.6m
AFTER HENRY (ITV, 20:30) 11.58m
TOP OF THE POPS CHRISTMAS SHOW (BBC1, 14:00) 11.38m
FILM : CLOCKWISE (BBC1, 22:20) 10.94m
MISS MARPLE : A CARIBBEAN MYSTERY (BBC1, 19:50) 10.31m
IN SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH (BBC1, 21:40) 9.42m
STRIKE IT LUCKY CHRISTMAS SPECIAL (ITV, 17:40) 8.78m
COMEDY CHRISTMAS BOX (ITV, 18:30) 7.3m
DAD'S ARMY (BBC1, 12:30) (Repeat) 6.7m
THE QUEEN'S CHRISTMAS MESSAGE (ITV, 15:00) 6.2m
Ratings not known for : Noel's Christmas Presents (BBC1, 11:00), Porridge (repeat) (BBC1, 12:00), On Her Majesty's Secret Service (ITV, 12:25), Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em (repeat) (BBC1, 13:10), The B.F.G. (ITV, 15:15), Home and Away (ITV, 17:00) and ITV's news bulletins.
What on earth was the channel thinking?!!!
I am not talking about trying to kill off anything, I am talking of healthy competition something which ITV always say they are fine with until they start to lose than they cry foul.
What I am saying is that over the years BBC have given a lot of ITV big hitters an almost clear run but there is nothing wrong with challenging them. There are lots of examples for instance of 2 dramas doing very well despite going head to head.
Fair to say that ITV have also done this with BBC big hitters too. Also while ITV have options as you put it I think BBC have far more but we dont wont an all out war because then everybody will lose.
I think it certainly shows Cohen up!
Nope, pretty sure I haven't. I think you might have the BBC ones on though, given how many times you feel the need to defend them.
Whilst scheduling Strictly in later slots might damage X Factor, in the long run it is the BBC who will be damaged most if they schedule too aggressively.
WOW! This is phenomenal thank you so much. If you have anymore then please share. 1988 was a bit of an uneventful Christmas Day it seems.
Ah - but I only defend if I see an attack, especially one I dont agree with. I think this whole discussion about the 15 min clash has been blown out of all proportion and thats why I have defended so strongly.
Can you explain how SCD is being aggressively scheduled this year compared to last or is it just another assumption?
However for a step back in time to 1987 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4g4pzbpeCM
You do tend to defend them against pretty much any allegation against them though.
I think that the fact it was down for 7pm with XF at 8.15pm in the initial exchange and then they shifted it to create a 20 minute overlap was pretty shifty. More aggressive than last year? We'll have to see as the weeks go on. But the point I was making is that too much aggressive scheduling (not just with Strictly but across the board) could well come back to haunt them and do more damage to themselves than to ITV.
Why would you "take ITV on a lot more" - there's no need to at the BBC because they have perfectly well rated shows that are strong enough to stand on their own 2 feet without looking over their shoulder at the other channel. It is more understandable for ITV to engineer clashes as they are a commercial broadcaster trying to get the highest rating figures in order to satisfy advertisers and investors. The BBC is quite the opposite - a PSB that whilst it should be looking to have healthy viewing figures for their top shows they should not be resorting to going down the avenue of point scoring - they are above that and a different model to ITV.
I agree with ...bwfc - it's not about trying to get one over a commercial channel - not behaving like that shouldn't be seen as a sign of weakness, moreso a PSB that is professional and will not rise to any bait that ITV puts out. I would think more highly of the BBC if they didn't resort to such tactics and rose above any shenanigans ITV conjures up.
I can hear the BBC society sharpening their knives as I type.:D
As much as I hate Doctor Who and dislike Strictly and Pointless, you cannot argue that thats a solid lineup.
There is only one way to resolve this ................. FIGHT !!
Why are you asking me questions I have already answered? I don't have a problem with it really. The point I was defending was the pro BBC innocence view on here that has no logical reasoning attached to it with regards to this particular clash. It's a bit of a dirty tactic and it certainly makes no sense for the BBC to do it imo, especially considering that The X Factor is weak anyway. I don't see what they have to gain from it. In all likelihood this will just anger ITV and lead to them being even more agressive against EE.
No one has suggested that X Factor ratings will shoot up without clashes either to refer to another post.
Is that the Doctor Who special of Pointless that has been recorded ?
Programme times change all the time from the release of initial schedules (which sometimes aren't even approved by broadcasters, just the best guess of digiguide etc) and the weekend shows have no fixed slots to start with.
If the BBC and ITV can come to a reasonable agreement concerning the soaps, why not Strictly and X Factor?
The equivalent would be the BBC putting EastEnders against ITV's soaps constantly, say hour long episodes on Thursday from 7.30pm and Monday and Friday from 8.00pm. The BBC when rescheduling EE or finding a slot for a rare extra episode usually avoid putting it against ITV's soaps.
I just think more competition in more slots is healthy whoever is winning. I do agree with the rest of your post though and it seems this is what the BBC usually default to.
Having said that with all the shenanigans of the last couple of years its ITV that are losing share so the BBC can sit back as ITV damages itself more than anyone else.
The point you're missing is that EE isn't strong enough for that. Hour long episodes at 7:30 on Thursday would be responded to by either:
7pm: ED
7:30pm: CS
8pm: ED
Or just an hour long ED at 7pm when there's no Corrie. EE would be destroyed.
Also ITV don't care about whether it's equivalent or not. If the BBC annoy them they can just hit back harder with EE/CS clashes.
I would presume so, they have done that before.
Is it a normal length episode then?
I agree with the BIB. Again you've missed my point as I'm not saying that the soap clashes are a retaliation. Nor are the Strictly ones. But ITV could retaliate by being even more aggressive against EE. It's not worth that risk for the BBC when they gain very little from it.