It used to make some good programmes as well though Time Team for Instance and cutting Edge before that went downhill with a 30 minute dumbed down version.
Yes, there are still a few good ones left - The Bionic Vet for instance.
Their motives were spelled out very clearly in their statement. There aren't any other 'real reasons' hidden here, beyond their contempt for LP's decision and the way they handled it.
When C4 was first announced as the new home of GBBO, the assumption was that Mel and Sue would go with it, as they've worked for the channel previously. The fact that they didn't even entertain negotiations shows how strongly they feel what has happened.
The only thing clear here is a scenario you have imagined from absolutely nothing.
To reiterate, nobody knows the reasons why the hosts won't join the programme on Channel 4, they have just stated that they won't be going.
"shocked and saddened" that the show is going to be on a different channel is simply that. But that shouldn't really stop any professional presenter continuing with the show, putting what is in fact simply a personal opinion aside.
It may be down to the deal, it may be money, it may be that the BBC made them some alternative offers instead. It could be all of those things, or none.
It's common knowledge that the BBC has been slowly starved of cash over the last six years - so Love Productions would know the channel that commissioned and nurtured the show wouldn't be able to afford the sum it was demanding.
Which rather makes me suspect that they didn't have any intention of staying with the BBC in the first place.
Whether that came from sheer greed or was something manipulated by Love's majority shareholder, Sky, and its owner Rupert Murdoch, or indeed a combination of the two, has yet to be revealed.
But you are posting here on this thread so you called yourself the same!
I'n not the one going on about Social Responsibility
Neither am I threatening to boycott Channel 4 like other posters. You really can't see the difference? Maybe it's time to lock the thread(s) before it goes too far then
It's common knowledge that the BBC has been slowly starved of cash over the last six years - so Love Productions would know the channel that commissioned and nurtured the show wouldn't be able to afford the sum it was demanding.
Which rather makes me suspect that they didn't have any intention of staying with the BBC in the first place.
The fact that they had signed the deal with C4 a couple of hours after the "breakdown" announcement indicates that talks with C4 had already reached an advanced, if not a final stage. And then reaction statement from the BBC would indicate that the BBC were completely unaware of the advanced state of those negotiations.
The fact that they had signed the deal with C4 a couple of hours after the "breakdown" announcement indicates that talks with C4 had already reached an advanced, if not a final stage. And then reaction statement from the BBC would indicate that the BBC were completely unaware of the advanced state of those negotiations.
On Newsnight the other night Lorraine Heggessey (former BBC1 controller) said something very similar.
But also, on Digital Spy, they have an article about previous copyright arguments Love Production have had with the BBC.
LP threatened court action against the BBC for using the Bake Off format for a programme called Hair or something...the BBC (stupidly IMO) paid up, then LP tried to do the same with a painting challenge programme.....the BBC put up more of a fight, and LP backed down.
All told....Love Productions sound like a nasty greedy bunch of scummy pigs.
On Newsnight the other night Lorraine Heggessey (former BBC1 controller) said something very similar.
But also, on Digital Spy, they have an article about previous copyright arguments Love Production have had with the BBC.
LP threatened court action against the BBC for using the Bake Off format for a programme called Hair or something...the BBC (stupidly IMO) paid up, then LP tried to do the same with a painting challenge programme.....the BBC put up more of a fight, and LP backed down.
All told....Love Productions sound like a nasty greedy bunch of scummy pigs.
Or maybe the BBC were guilty of lifting their ideas
Moving to a different channel is not a breach of "Social Responsibility", otherwise, the BBC would have fallen foul of it when they poached Men Behaving Badly from ITV
Get your facts right. The BBC did not "poach it". It was cancelled by ITV:
[Enflied's] departure influenced ITV's decision to cancel the show after just two series, when audience figures were poor.
They are now getting an awful lot more for a product
But..
It's now dead.
It will not be worth that at the end of this contract.
They have P ...... off ten million viewers.
They have severe Reputational damage to their company.
A major commissioner of their shows...The BBC..most likely will not commission anything from them again.
Other TV channels may avoid them as thry are considered, toxic, and double deal at the same time, and breach etiquettes.
Or maybe the BBC were guilty of lifting their ideas
No they weren't. If you read the article you will understand better.
LP know that the BBC cannot afford the PR disaster of a lawsuit case against them. LP exploited this by accusing them of copyright infringement. The BBC payed up.
When LP tried it on again, the BBC had had enough of their greed and legal threats and stood up to them, saying that Masterchef had a very similar format to bake off, therefore bake off isn't itself an original format....Love Productions immediately backed down, and never made another claim again.
Love Productions were exploiting the vulnerabilities within the BBC, assuming that they would do anything (like pay up loads of money) to avoid public controversy...and it worked once, but backfired the second time.
It has now backfired completely...as all this information is now being leaked by people who have taken a dislike to Love Productions.....it's another example of Love Productions greed and general scummyness.
And just a couple of days ago, it was the production company behind Britains favourite programme.
Now it's reputation is in tatters and now stories about its greedy past are being leaked to newspapers who are all rubbing their hands with glee....
It's now dead.
It will not be worth that at the end of this contract.
They have P ...... off ten million viewers.
They have severe Reputational damage to their company.
A major commissioner of their shows...The BBC..most likely will not commission anything from them again.
Other TV channels may avoid them as thry are considered, toxic, and double deal at the same time, and breach etiquettes.
Yes " short term" gain.
How naive does one have to be to think that negotiations for contracts and other business don't go on concurrently with multiple bidders at the same time? That isn't breach of business etiquette, that is business period.
If Love Productions has something the BBC want (and can afford) in the future, they will do business again. All this "duplicity" and "double dealing" and "betrayal" that you have conjured up just doesn't happen. It isn't personal. It is simply a business transaction.
It's now dead.
It will not be worth that at the end of this contract.
They have P ...... off ten million viewers.
They have severe Reputational damage to their company.
A major commissioner of their shows...The BBC..most likely will not commission anything from them again.
Other TV channels may avoid them as thry are considered, toxic, and double deal at the same time, and breach etiquettes.
Yes " short term" gain.
Its not "dead" (not even sure what that over dramatic word even means when it comes to a TV show) , Yes it might be "dead" in certain people's mind who are not adult enough to deal with change but as far as we are currently aware regardless Channel 4 will still be showing a show. The show you know might be "dead" but after 7 years and major changes ahead no matter what channel it was on changes was always going to happen
Unless you have a time machine you have zero actual idea what the show will be worth at the end of the contract you have a opinion but that's it. You have not seen the show, You have not a single clue to what ideas they will have for the show, You are basing this "opinion" on ZERO actual information. Forming an opinion on something you have ZERO actual factual information is like trying to build a sandcastle with the tide coming in and its been non stop rain for 6 months.
You are taking to much notice of social media and "The Sun" polls, Its mainly full of overreactions and people wanting to part of the "cool" gang. If you really think that everyone who watches this show uses Social Media (and all of those you do have taken time to use it to talk about this) and/or has taken part in polls then fine but using logic and common sense that is very unlikely what is more then likely (and has often happened in this sort of situations) then people are jumping on a bandwagon.
If the BBC are childish enough to ignore a great idea for a TV show because of a business decision then they deserve what has happened. That is a very childish and immature reaction, Other broadcasters again you would hope would act in a professional manner. This is a business if you hold grudges when these sort of things happen you wont stay in business for long also people do not look at who produces the TV shows they watch, Normal people will not see a advert for a TV show and say "Oh I like the look of that I better look at who produces it in case it is on my list of naughty companies"
Its not "short term" at the end of this contract it would have lasted for about 10 years, That's a long time for a tv show in today's world. The show was going have to change in the next year or so anyway so again it was a sensible course of action to ensure you made as much money as possible from the brand while its at its most valuable because you can bet anything that if they had stayed with the BBC for less money and the changes that was coming did not pay off and the viewing figures went down the BBC would not have shown the "loyalty" that people seem to think Love Productions should have shown and offered the same figure they offered for this contract they would have offered an lot less
How naive does one have to be to think that negotiations for contracts and other business don't go on concurrently with multiple bidders at the same time? That isn't breach of business etiquette, that is business period.
If Love Productions has something the BBC want (and can afford) in the future, they will do business again. All this "duplicity" and "double dealing" and "betrayal" that you have conjured up just doesn't happen. It isn't personal. It is simply a business transaction.
It is factually a breach of etiquette.
What you mean, is that it's not against the law, and you are right. But it goes against the unwritten rules that you respect the TV station that believed in, and nurtured your show. And yes, that is how production companies operated.....and I am talking today, not 50 years ago.
And why would that be? Well....
The BBC choose the presenters. The BBC choose the production values. The BBC choose when the programme is broadcast.
Nothing gets written or published or broadcast without permission from the BBC. BBC creatives are also integral to bringing in new ideas. Plus, a programme evolves over the years such that it absorbs the DNA of the TV station it belongs to.
That makes it very dangerous to change sides.
Bake off is a daytime TV show, low budget, nice friendly show, half a million viewers. Job Done.
It's the BBC that turned it into Britains favourite programme.
Also Bake off isn't an original idea, it uses the same format as X-factor, Strictly, Masterchef, Pop Idol.
In fact you can just use any hobby and apply the same x-factor/strictly format.
Most businesses wouldn't behave like Love Productions have. For a business to be successful it has to respect the customer...that is almost the definition of good business. And Love Productions have been very disrespectful....and that is very, very, very bad business.
Its not "dead" (not even sure what that over dramatic word even means when it comes to a TV show) , Yes it might be "dead" in certain people's mind who are not adult enough to deal with change but as far as we are currently aware regardless Channel 4 will still be showing a show. The show you know might be "dead" but after 7 years and major changes ahead no matter what channel it was on changes was always going to happen
Unless you have a time machine you have zero actual idea what the show will be worth at the end of the contract you have a opinion but that's it. You have not seen the show, You have not a single clue to what ideas they will have for the show, You are basing this "opinion" on ZERO actual information. Forming an opinion on something you have ZERO actual factual information is like trying to build a sandcastle with the tide coming in and its been non stop rain for 6 months.
You are taking to much notice of social media and "The Sun" polls, Its mainly full of overreactions and people wanting to part of the "cool" gang. If you really think that everyone who watches this show uses Social Media (and all of those you do have taken time to use it to talk about this) and/or has taken part in polls then fine but using logic and common sense that is very unlikely what is more then likely (and has often happened in this sort of situations) then people are jumping on a bandwagon.
If the BBC are childish enough to ignore a great idea for a TV show because of a business decision then they deserve what has happened. That is a very childish and immature reaction, Other broadcasters again you would hope would act in a professional manner. This is a business if you hold grudges when these sort of things happen you wont stay in business for long also people do not look at who produces the TV shows they watch, Normal people will not see a advert for a TV show and say "Oh I like the look of that I better look at who produces it in case it is on my list of naughty companies"
Its not "short term" at the end of this contract it would have lasted for about 10 years, That's a long time for a tv show in today's world. The show was going have to change in the next year or so anyway so again it was a sensible course of action to ensure you made as much money as possible from the brand while its at its most valuable because you can bet anything that if they had stayed with the BBC for less money and the changes that was coming did not pay off and the viewing figures went down the BBC would not have shown the "loyalty" that people seem to think Love Productions should have shown and offered the same figure they offered for this contract they would have offered an lot less
The BBC offered basically double what they were already paying Love Productions. That was a very generous offer. GBBO will lose viewers, that's not a prediction, it's a fact backed by ratings information. C4 will not have 11m for a television show, because advert breaks and the lack of the current GBBO team will put off a lot of viewers.
Them also only doing a celebrity version of GBBO in 2017 will kill a lot of interest the current fans have in the show. They won't get to do a full series until 2018, and by then people will have moved on to other things. I wouldn't be shocked if all we see of GBBO is a celeb version in 2017 and one full series in 2018, and then it being over or moved to a tea time slot for 2019 and it being a filler show like Come Dine With Me. It's never going to again reach the heights of the BBC viewship. It's next to impossible that it could.
I love GBBO enough to record any new series on C4, but I'm not naive enough to believe the show won't be an inferior version to what it is now. Or that this hasn't signed the inevitable death warrant for the show.
The BBC offered basically double what they were already paying Love Productions. That was a very generous offer. GBBO will lose viewers, that's not a prediction, it's a fact backed by ratings information. C4 will not have 11m for a television show, because advert breaks and the lack of the current GBBO team will put off a lot of viewers.
Them also only doing a celebrity version of GBBO in 2017 will kill a lot of interest the current fans have in the show. They won't get to do a full series until 2018, and by then people will have moved onto other things. I wouldn't be shocked if all we see of GBBO is a celeb version in 2017 and one full series in 2018, and then it being over or moved to a tea time slot for 2019 and it being a filler show like Come Dine With Me. It's never going to again reach the heights of the BBC viewship. It's next to impossible that it could.
How would the C4 Celebrity edition be any different to the BBC Sports Relief versions?
How would the C4 Celebrity edition be any different to the BBC Sports Relief versions?
Because the Sports Relief/Comic Relief versions were for charity. The C4 series won't be for that reason and it will feel cheap and cynical. That goes against why viewers tend to love GBBO.
As much as I like watching Bake Off in any form it comes, I admit the charity shows weren't a patch on the GBBO. They were watchable, but they weren't the same quality. It will put off even more viewers having a celeb version.
The BBC offered basically double what they were already paying Love Productions. That was a very generous offer. GBBO will lose viewers, that's not a prediction, it's a fact backed by ratings information. C4 will not have 11m for a television show, because advert breaks and the lack of the current GBBO team will put off a lot of viewers.
Them also only doing a celebrity version of GBBO in 2017 will kill a lot of interest the current fans have in the show. They won't get to do a full series until 2018, and by then people will have moved onto other things. I wouldn't be shocked if all we see of GBBO is a celeb version in 2017 and one full series in 2018, and then it being over or moved to a tea time slot for 2019 and it being a filler show like Come Dine With Me. It's never going to again reach the heights of the BBC viewship. It's next to impossible that it could.
"generous"? When you go to the shop to buy something do you offer a amount that you consider "generous" or do you pay what the shop tells you to pay?
So it loses viewers? And? That is not really relevant to anything that really matters, As far as we are aware this contract is not performance related, Channel 4 logically would be well aware that its unlikely to attract those numbers. If they bought it to attract the same viewing figures then yes its bad business but that's clearly not what has happened here. If Channel 4 gets 4m they will be more then happy.
You cannot judge the success of it by comparing it to the BBC viewers, It can only be judged by how many viewers it gets compared against other Channel 4 shows
"generous"? When you go to the shop to buy something do you offer a amount that you consider "generous" or do you pay what the shop tells you to pay?
So it loses viewers? And? That is not really relevant to anything that really matters, As far as we are aware this contract is not performance related, Channel 4 logically would be well aware that its unlikely to attract those numbers. If they bought it to attract the same viewing figures then yes its bad business but that's clearly not what has happened here. If Channel 4 gets 4m they will be more then happy.
You cannot judge the success of it by comparing it to the BBC viewers, It can only be judged by how many viewers it gets compared against other Channel 4 shows
Getting an extra 7m a series isn't something to sniff at. Especially when it means your product will continue to be seen by the masses.
Comments
But you are posting here on this thread so you called yourself the same!
The only thing clear here is a scenario you have imagined from absolutely nothing.
To reiterate, nobody knows the reasons why the hosts won't join the programme on Channel 4, they have just stated that they won't be going.
"shocked and saddened" that the show is going to be on a different channel is simply that. But that shouldn't really stop any professional presenter continuing with the show, putting what is in fact simply a personal opinion aside.
It may be down to the deal, it may be money, it may be that the BBC made them some alternative offers instead. It could be all of those things, or none.
Rupert Murdoch doesn't own Sky.
Supervet is a great show, and really interesting. But it is those things because of Noel and his company. Any TV channel could do it.
I'n not the one going on about Social Responsibility
Neither am I threatening to boycott Channel 4 like other posters. You really can't see the difference? Maybe it's time to lock the thread(s) before it goes too far then
Its already paid off.
They was getting x amount for a product,
They are now getting an awful lot more for a product
On Newsnight the other night Lorraine Heggessey (former BBC1 controller) said something very similar.
But also, on Digital Spy, they have an article about previous copyright arguments Love Production have had with the BBC.
LP threatened court action against the BBC for using the Bake Off format for a programme called Hair or something...the BBC (stupidly IMO) paid up, then LP tried to do the same with a painting challenge programme.....the BBC put up more of a fight, and LP backed down.
All told....Love Productions sound like a nasty greedy bunch of scummy pigs.
Or maybe the BBC were guilty of lifting their ideas
Get your facts right. The BBC did not "poach it". It was cancelled by ITV:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Behaving_Badly
They revived it and made it a massive success.
But..
It's now dead.
It will not be worth that at the end of this contract.
They have P ...... off ten million viewers.
They have severe Reputational damage to their company.
A major commissioner of their shows...The BBC..most likely will not commission anything from them again.
Other TV channels may avoid them as thry are considered, toxic, and double deal at the same time, and breach etiquettes.
Yes " short term" gain.
No they weren't. If you read the article you will understand better.
LP know that the BBC cannot afford the PR disaster of a lawsuit case against them. LP exploited this by accusing them of copyright infringement. The BBC payed up.
When LP tried it on again, the BBC had had enough of their greed and legal threats and stood up to them, saying that Masterchef had a very similar format to bake off, therefore bake off isn't itself an original format....Love Productions immediately backed down, and never made another claim again.
Love Productions were exploiting the vulnerabilities within the BBC, assuming that they would do anything (like pay up loads of money) to avoid public controversy...and it worked once, but backfired the second time.
It has now backfired completely...as all this information is now being leaked by people who have taken a dislike to Love Productions.....it's another example of Love Productions greed and general scummyness.
And just a couple of days ago, it was the production company behind Britains favourite programme.
Now it's reputation is in tatters and now stories about its greedy past are being leaked to newspapers who are all rubbing their hands with glee....
Expect more.....
How naive does one have to be to think that negotiations for contracts and other business don't go on concurrently with multiple bidders at the same time? That isn't breach of business etiquette, that is business period.
If Love Productions has something the BBC want (and can afford) in the future, they will do business again. All this "duplicity" and "double dealing" and "betrayal" that you have conjured up just doesn't happen. It isn't personal. It is simply a business transaction.
Its not "dead" (not even sure what that over dramatic word even means when it comes to a TV show) , Yes it might be "dead" in certain people's mind who are not adult enough to deal with change but as far as we are currently aware regardless Channel 4 will still be showing a show. The show you know might be "dead" but after 7 years and major changes ahead no matter what channel it was on changes was always going to happen
Unless you have a time machine you have zero actual idea what the show will be worth at the end of the contract you have a opinion but that's it. You have not seen the show, You have not a single clue to what ideas they will have for the show, You are basing this "opinion" on ZERO actual information. Forming an opinion on something you have ZERO actual factual information is like trying to build a sandcastle with the tide coming in and its been non stop rain for 6 months.
You are taking to much notice of social media and "The Sun" polls, Its mainly full of overreactions and people wanting to part of the "cool" gang. If you really think that everyone who watches this show uses Social Media (and all of those you do have taken time to use it to talk about this) and/or has taken part in polls then fine but using logic and common sense that is very unlikely what is more then likely (and has often happened in this sort of situations) then people are jumping on a bandwagon.
If the BBC are childish enough to ignore a great idea for a TV show because of a business decision then they deserve what has happened. That is a very childish and immature reaction, Other broadcasters again you would hope would act in a professional manner. This is a business if you hold grudges when these sort of things happen you wont stay in business for long also people do not look at who produces the TV shows they watch, Normal people will not see a advert for a TV show and say "Oh I like the look of that I better look at who produces it in case it is on my list of naughty companies"
Its not "short term" at the end of this contract it would have lasted for about 10 years, That's a long time for a tv show in today's world. The show was going have to change in the next year or so anyway so again it was a sensible course of action to ensure you made as much money as possible from the brand while its at its most valuable because you can bet anything that if they had stayed with the BBC for less money and the changes that was coming did not pay off and the viewing figures went down the BBC would not have shown the "loyalty" that people seem to think Love Productions should have shown and offered the same figure they offered for this contract they would have offered an lot less
It is factually a breach of etiquette.
What you mean, is that it's not against the law, and you are right. But it goes against the unwritten rules that you respect the TV station that believed in, and nurtured your show. And yes, that is how production companies operated.....and I am talking today, not 50 years ago.
And why would that be? Well....
The BBC choose the presenters. The BBC choose the production values. The BBC choose when the programme is broadcast.
Nothing gets written or published or broadcast without permission from the BBC. BBC creatives are also integral to bringing in new ideas. Plus, a programme evolves over the years such that it absorbs the DNA of the TV station it belongs to.
That makes it very dangerous to change sides.
Bake off is a daytime TV show, low budget, nice friendly show, half a million viewers. Job Done.
It's the BBC that turned it into Britains favourite programme.
Also Bake off isn't an original idea, it uses the same format as X-factor, Strictly, Masterchef, Pop Idol.
In fact you can just use any hobby and apply the same x-factor/strictly format.
Most businesses wouldn't behave like Love Productions have. For a business to be successful it has to respect the customer...that is almost the definition of good business. And Love Productions have been very disrespectful....and that is very, very, very bad business.
The BBC offered basically double what they were already paying Love Productions. That was a very generous offer. GBBO will lose viewers, that's not a prediction, it's a fact backed by ratings information. C4 will not have 11m for a television show, because advert breaks and the lack of the current GBBO team will put off a lot of viewers.
Them also only doing a celebrity version of GBBO in 2017 will kill a lot of interest the current fans have in the show. They won't get to do a full series until 2018, and by then people will have moved on to other things. I wouldn't be shocked if all we see of GBBO is a celeb version in 2017 and one full series in 2018, and then it being over or moved to a tea time slot for 2019 and it being a filler show like Come Dine With Me. It's never going to again reach the heights of the BBC viewship. It's next to impossible that it could.
I love GBBO enough to record any new series on C4, but I'm not naive enough to believe the show won't be an inferior version to what it is now. Or that this hasn't signed the inevitable death warrant for the show.
How would the C4 Celebrity edition be any different to the BBC Sports Relief versions?
Because the Sports Relief/Comic Relief versions were for charity. The C4 series won't be for that reason and it will feel cheap and cynical. That goes against why viewers tend to love GBBO.
As much as I like watching Bake Off in any form it comes, I admit the charity shows weren't a patch on the GBBO. They were watchable, but they weren't the same quality. It will put off even more viewers having a celeb version.
"generous"? When you go to the shop to buy something do you offer a amount that you consider "generous" or do you pay what the shop tells you to pay?
So it loses viewers? And? That is not really relevant to anything that really matters, As far as we are aware this contract is not performance related, Channel 4 logically would be well aware that its unlikely to attract those numbers. If they bought it to attract the same viewing figures then yes its bad business but that's clearly not what has happened here. If Channel 4 gets 4m they will be more then happy.
You cannot judge the success of it by comparing it to the BBC viewers, It can only be judged by how many viewers it gets compared against other Channel 4 shows
Yes, they seem to be.....or just trying to wind people up here!
Getting an extra 7m a series isn't something to sniff at. Especially when it means your product will continue to be seen by the masses.
Or they have different views
And if you get wound up because people are not up in arms about a business decision then should you really take part in discussions?
Not its not but that is logically not going to happen on Channel 4 no matter what.
The level for success on Channel 4 is different then BBC.
Channel 4 are not looking for that number of figures and Love Production measure the success by how much they earn from the TV show.
Is there no escape from this former pub chef?