I am hoping maybe she appears in the last 2009 special and he is off adventuring with her between series, that'd be great!
someone put this about river song. i wondered how when dt as said they may be doing 4 specials instead of 3.
i read that somewhere on here.
Why would the number of specials make any difference? It's already been suggested (in the post YOU quoted and I said contains the answer to your question) that River could well only know the Tenth (DT) Doctor - so his presence doesn't make any difference as to whether they could do it or not. If that is that case, what is the problem with it?
Why would the number of specials make any difference? It's already been suggested (in the post YOU quoted and I said contains the answer to your question) that River could well only know the Tenth (DT) Doctor - so his presence doesn't make any difference as to whether they could do it or not. If that is that case, what is the problem with it?
which would imply that they plan on keeping davey boy around for a while, would it not?
which would imply that they plan on keeping davey boy around for a while, would it not?
It would, but I guess it depends, really. There are easy write outs, whether it's altered/deleted timelines, or the implication that the RS stories happen between episodes/series (as per books, audios etc)
I think, of course, it's best not to over-think these. It was great story, but part of a "masterplan" story arc? I don't think so.
It would, but I guess it depends, really. There are easy write outs, whether it's altered/deleted timelines, or the implication that the RS stories happen between episodes/series (as per books, audios etc)
I think, of course, it's best not to over-think these. It was great story, but part of a "masterplan" story arc? I don't think so.
I agree, but it's reasonable to assume that she's part of this incarnation, because she did recognise the face.
I agree, but it's reasonable to assume that she's part of this incarnation, because she did recognise the face.
Backed up by her thinking he was pretending not to recognise her - had it been a different incarnation to the one she knew, then I'm sure she wouldn't have assumed that to be the case and realised he didn't know her straight away.
I thought near the end of the episode (FotD) she could have been hinting he regenerated when she said he turned up with a new haircut and a new suit
Perhaps we'll have a doctor who never has a haircut, or change of clothes. Or stops wearing suits. That is until he is forced to by circumstances beyond his control.
After the Christmas special we could have him wearing a Kaftan, and with his hair in a pony tail.
I think she knew a different incarnation of the Doctor, but she could easily recognise an earlier version given the amount of things there must be documented about the Doctor. Besides it wouldn't have taken much for her to realise he was the Doctor given there were very few people on the library planet.
I am assuming the 'don't think you'll regenerate' line has some bearing on all she knows about what will happen to him in the future. Her journal proably contains information on his successive regenerations
Another point, I thought regeneration was a semi-autonomous ability, like breathing, or heart rate. So with the proper training a Timelord can control the process to the extent that they can select the appearance and personality. It's been speculated that the Master used up the majority of his regenerations in the old series whilst keeping the same appearance. Romana seemed to have a similar level of control, and initiated a re-gen before she needed to, which ties in with the Doctor being able to regrow his hand in the early hours of his present incarnation since she would have otherwise have died due to radiation exposure later in the episode, and with the Watcher from a later adventure, as she had some kind of forewarning. In the Masters case he willed himself not to regenerate.
Was there any dialogue that actually confirmed she'd seen him in different regenerations? I didn't catch any.
What was said could mean she knows the 10th Doctor and nothing but the 10th Doctor (though he ages noticably during their relationship) or that she knows multiple Doctors but the 10th is the youngest one she knows.
That she knows about regeneration suggests she has seen him do it but he may have just told her about it.
I don't see why there is so much debate about this. The cleverness of Moffat's writing is that he has River Song speaking in such a way that it is open to interpretation whether or not she has met the current incarnation, a regenerated doctor or both in her immediate past, and his immediate future.
The nature of the programme - which Moffat clearly understands - required this - and it was very well done.
It's possible that Kingston is signed up - provisionally - to return as River Song, but they may not know who is even going to be the Doctor when she does return.
No, the one thing that is clear is that she knows the 10th Doctor, how many others if any is what is unclear.
I think she knew a different incarnation of the Doctor, but she could easily recognise an earlier version given the amount of things there must be documented about the Doctor. Besides it wouldn't have taken much for her to realise he was the Doctor given there were very few people on the library planet.
I am assuming the 'don't think you'll regenerate' line has some bearing on all she knows about what will happen to him in the future. Her journal proably contains information on his successive regenerations
Why bother to try and match up their timelines in her diary if this is a Doctor she has never met before? She clearly recognises his face and associates it with the early part of their relationship (from the Doctors PoV) so starts mentioning encounters thay have had when he looked like he does now.
Of course River Song does not have to appear again during DTs run and if we ever see "her" first encounter with the Doctor it need not be with Doc#10 but there has to be some encounters (offscreen or whatever) between her and the 10th Doctor.
I wondered where this thought came from. As far as I am aware the jury is still out on as to whether the Delgado Master was his last incarnation, leading to his decayed state in the Deadly Assassin and Keeper of Traken or if he had regenrated since Frontier in Space. There has certainly never been anything said about him keeping the same appearance through regenerations.
Simple fact is regeneration will change depending on who is producing and writing DW. It has never been consistent and probably never will. At the end of the day as people are all different, Time Lord's differ from each other too, so perhaps each Time Lord's regenerative abilities vary.
The new series has also never stated whether the 12 rengenerations rule still stands since the Time Lords were wiped out. The TL's could give or take away another Time Lords regenerations, offering them a full set if they wished. The Master had ended all his regenerations, but on being resurrected by the TLs it would seem was given a new set. However, the Doctor implied to Rose in School Reunion that he does not have a finite number of regenerations when he said 'I don't die, I regenerate, its the curse of the Time Lords'. So it remains to be seen if the Doctor will decay as per the Master as his 13th incarnation dies, or whether he was given more regenerations during the Time War, or as a result of the Time Lords being wiped out
What was said could mean she knows the 10th Doctor and nothing but the 10th Doctor (though he ages noticably during their relationship) or that she knows multiple Doctors but the 10th is the youngest one she knows.
That she knows about regeneration suggests she has seen him do it but he may have just told her about it.
No, the one thing that is clear is that she knows the 10th Doctor, how many others if any is what is unclear.
Why bother to try and match up their timelines in her diary if this is a Doctor she has never met before? She clearly recognises his face and associates it with the early part of their relationship (from the Doctors PoV) so starts mentioning encounters thay have had when he looked like he does now.
Of course River Song does not have to appear again during DTs run and if we ever see "her" first encounter with the Doctor it need not be with Doc#10 but there has to be some encounters (offscreen or whatever) between her and the 10th Doctor.
Ok, maybe I missed something (so please tell me) but I didn't hear anything that says River knew the Doctor in his 10th incarnation, only that she recognised it as him. When she talks of their encounters it is left elusive as to whether it is the 10th Doctor. The fact is it doesn't matter which incarnation she travels with in the future, whether it is the 10th, 11th... she obviously knows the events from the past 2 episodes happened before any of that so does not want to corrupt the time line by telling him.
I wondered where this thought came from. As far as I am aware the jury is still out on as to whether the Delgado Master was his last incarnation, leading to his decayed state in the Deadly Assassin and Keeper of Traken or if he had regenrated since Frontier in Space. There has certainly never been anything said about him keeping the same appearance through regenerations.
Simple fact is regeneration will change depending on who is producing and writing DW. It has never been consistent and probably never will. At the end of the day as people are all different, Time Lord's differ from each other too, so perhaps each Time Lord's regenerative abilities vary.
The new series has also never stated whether the 12 rengenerations rule still stands since the Time Lords were wiped out. The TL's could give or take away another Time Lords regenerations, offering them a full set if they wished. The Master had ended all his regenerations, but on being resurrected by the TLs it would seem was given a new set. However, the Doctor implied to Rose in School Reunion that he does not have a finite number of regenerations when he said 'I don't die, I regenerate, its the curse of the Time Lords'. So it remains to be seen if the Doctor will decay as per the Master as his 13th incarnation dies, or whether he was given more regenerations during the Time War, or as a result of the Time Lords being wiped out
See this is where the movie comes in for me. I assumed that the daleks (or remaining kaleds) concentrated so much energy on his body that he cycled through his regenerative processes.
This whole issue regarding regeneration...didn't the second doctor once say "timelards can live forever, barring accidents"
Implies that he can be killed, whether he conciously wants to regenrate or not.
In the 5 Doctors, the timelords offered the master a new life cycle in return for helping. Which shows there must be a process of sorts.
Off tangent, it's always been for me, that Gallifreyans are not born timelords, they progress into it if they are lucky. Kind of like getting into the freemasons or something. That would also mean that just because he has a grandaughter, she would not necessarily be a timelady.
Ok, maybe I missed something (so please tell me) but I didn't hear anything that says River knew the Doctor in his 10th incarnation, only that she recognised it as him. When she talks of their encounters it is left elusive as to whether it is the 10th Doctor. The fact is it doesn't matter which incarnation she travels with in the future, whether it is the 10th, 11th... she obviously knows the events from the past 2 episodes happened before any of that so does not want to corrupt the time line by telling him.
She says to the Doctor when talking about their relationship.
"Going by your face it's early days for you"
She then trys to find out exactly which enounters have happened for the Doctor by checking the diary.
Surely you can see by that statement and her actions that at least some of her encounters have been with the 10th Doctor?
If she thought the 10th Doctor was a Doctor from before they first met she would not even bother checking the diary to match up time lines. If she thought this Doctor was a later incarnation (and therefore older) her comment about it being "Early days" for him makes no sense.
See this is where the movie comes in for me. I assumed that the daleks (or remaining kaleds) concentrated so much energy on his body that he cycled through his regenerative processes.
Are you on about the Master? In the movie he had already used up all his regenerations and was into body stealing.
It does have some cannon support given that Jenny managed to regenerate into herself. Which could mean that the speculated regeneration in the final episode might happen, with DT still in the role at the end of it.
It does have some cannon support given that Jenny managed to regenerate into herself. Which could mean that the speculated regeneration in the final episode might happen, with DT still in the role at the end of it.
I'm pretty sure Jenny was 'fixed' by the Source/terraforming gas (as an homage to/rip off from Star Trek 3), not by a regeneration of any sort. This idea is, however, discussed with the usual DS vim here)
The usenet group idea does seem... well... a bit out of left field when it comes to ideas. It doesn't really tally with anything we know from the show.
In as show as self-contradictory as DW, trying to work out any kind of solid canon for anything is, of course, a pretty pointless task.
It does have some cannon support given that Jenny managed to regenerate into herself. Which could mean that the speculated regeneration in the final episode might happen, with DT still in the role at the end of it.
Oh that's canon now is it?
I do believe that it was a regenerative process rather than the 'Source', but I maintain that it was a healing like the Doctor's hand, rather than a true regeneration.
But in any case, like so many things, it is completely open to interpretation. The only thing 'canonical' is that Jenny is alive and well and flying around the universe in her little ship.
Comments
which would imply that they plan on keeping davey boy around for a while, would it not?
I think, of course, it's best not to over-think these. It was great story, but part of a "masterplan" story arc? I don't think so.
I agree, but it's reasonable to assume that she's part of this incarnation, because she did recognise the face.
Backed up by her thinking he was pretending not to recognise her - had it been a different incarnation to the one she knew, then I'm sure she wouldn't have assumed that to be the case and realised he didn't know her straight away.
yeah, I got that impression
Perhaps we'll have a doctor who never has a haircut, or change of clothes. Or stops wearing suits. That is until he is forced to by circumstances beyond his control.
After the Christmas special we could have him wearing a Kaftan, and with his hair in a pony tail.
I am assuming the 'don't think you'll regenerate' line has some bearing on all she knows about what will happen to him in the future. Her journal proably contains information on his successive regenerations
yeah me either. o0
What was said could mean she knows the 10th Doctor and nothing but the 10th Doctor (though he ages noticably during their relationship) or that she knows multiple Doctors but the 10th is the youngest one she knows.
That she knows about regeneration suggests she has seen him do it but he may have just told her about it.
No, the one thing that is clear is that she knows the 10th Doctor, how many others if any is what is unclear.
Why bother to try and match up their timelines in her diary if this is a Doctor she has never met before? She clearly recognises his face and associates it with the early part of their relationship (from the Doctors PoV) so starts mentioning encounters thay have had when he looked like he does now.
Of course River Song does not have to appear again during DTs run and if we ever see "her" first encounter with the Doctor it need not be with Doc#10 but there has to be some encounters (offscreen or whatever) between her and the 10th Doctor.
I wondered where this thought came from. As far as I am aware the jury is still out on as to whether the Delgado Master was his last incarnation, leading to his decayed state in the Deadly Assassin and Keeper of Traken or if he had regenrated since Frontier in Space. There has certainly never been anything said about him keeping the same appearance through regenerations.
Simple fact is regeneration will change depending on who is producing and writing DW. It has never been consistent and probably never will. At the end of the day as people are all different, Time Lord's differ from each other too, so perhaps each Time Lord's regenerative abilities vary.
The new series has also never stated whether the 12 rengenerations rule still stands since the Time Lords were wiped out. The TL's could give or take away another Time Lords regenerations, offering them a full set if they wished. The Master had ended all his regenerations, but on being resurrected by the TLs it would seem was given a new set. However, the Doctor implied to Rose in School Reunion that he does not have a finite number of regenerations when he said 'I don't die, I regenerate, its the curse of the Time Lords'. So it remains to be seen if the Doctor will decay as per the Master as his 13th incarnation dies, or whether he was given more regenerations during the Time War, or as a result of the Time Lords being wiped out
Ok, maybe I missed something (so please tell me) but I didn't hear anything that says River knew the Doctor in his 10th incarnation, only that she recognised it as him. When she talks of their encounters it is left elusive as to whether it is the 10th Doctor. The fact is it doesn't matter which incarnation she travels with in the future, whether it is the 10th, 11th... she obviously knows the events from the past 2 episodes happened before any of that so does not want to corrupt the time line by telling him.
See this is where the movie comes in for me. I assumed that the daleks (or remaining kaleds) concentrated so much energy on his body that he cycled through his regenerative processes.
Implies that he can be killed, whether he conciously wants to regenrate or not.
In the 5 Doctors, the timelords offered the master a new life cycle in return for helping. Which shows there must be a process of sorts.
Off tangent, it's always been for me, that Gallifreyans are not born timelords, they progress into it if they are lucky. Kind of like getting into the freemasons or something. That would also mean that just because he has a grandaughter, she would not necessarily be a timelady.
She says to the Doctor when talking about their relationship.
"Going by your face it's early days for you"
She then trys to find out exactly which enounters have happened for the Doctor by checking the diary.
Surely you can see by that statement and her actions that at least some of her encounters have been with the 10th Doctor?
If she thought the 10th Doctor was a Doctor from before they first met she would not even bother checking the diary to match up time lines. If she thought this Doctor was a later incarnation (and therefore older) her comment about it being "Early days" for him makes no sense.
Are you on about the Master? In the movie he had already used up all his regenerations and was into body stealing.
Mainly on rec.arts.drwho, usenet group.
It does have some cannon support given that Jenny managed to regenerate into herself. Which could mean that the speculated regeneration in the final episode might happen, with DT still in the role at the end of it.
The usenet group idea does seem... well... a bit out of left field when it comes to ideas. It doesn't really tally with anything we know from the show.
In as show as self-contradictory as DW, trying to work out any kind of solid canon for anything is, of course, a pretty pointless task.
Oh that's canon now is it?
I do believe that it was a regenerative process rather than the 'Source', but I maintain that it was a healing like the Doctor's hand, rather than a true regeneration.
But in any case, like so many things, it is completely open to interpretation. The only thing 'canonical' is that Jenny is alive and well and flying around the universe in her little ship.