I think they have! Films such as 'The Devil Wears Prada' more than insinuate that you can't be pretty unless you wear nice clothes!
Of course, dressing dowdily and having your hair a messy tangle of knots does not do much for you on the outside, but it's actually what's inside that counts anyway. Something that's even less celebrated today than ever, to be honest (especially if you read some of the other threads on here - obsessed with the way people look rather than their actual personalities/or only judging people from what they read/see on TV without actually knowing them personally!).
Ugly Betty for the White House I say ! Don't ever change my dear !
Ugly Betty for the White House I say ! Don't ever change my dear !
And the title of the series is actually so un-PC! I think she's great. (And actually, very pretty in real life, which has nothing to do with her actual character, as I have already said).
The thing is, in the days of people like Cyd (and all the other big stars of the era) the public never really got to know anything about their personal lives. They existed on what they were fed by the Hollywood publicity machines, which were run by the studios which in turn were run by the heads of those studios, who were immensely powerful (not like today, when studios are basically run by money men). It's why secrets such as Rock Hudson's sexuality were able to remain a secret. Why scandals were kept under wraps for longer - although scandals did emerge; it just took a while.
The internet has, of course, made everything so much more accessible and rumours now run rampant about various big 'Stars' - they might not be true but people can really buy into them (humans are very gullible) and before long a 'rumour' can become a 'fact' without any actual proof ever being put forward into the public domain. (This is also true of the preponderance of 'conspiracy' sites, where invented 'facts' and 'half-truths' - not to mention cherry-picked and altered quotes from influential people can be skewed in such a way to attract those who want to believe and who then become zealots, intent on 'the truth', utterly convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Of course, conspiracy theories have always been around, but the internet has increased their number and their fervour).
Oops! Off on a tangent there! But sometimes I long for the 'easier' times - the times when there wasn't this incredible thirst for juicy titbits on everyone from the biggest star to the lowliest 'Z' celeb. Although in the days of Cyd and her ilk, people were interested and there was a certain desire for the same 'juicy' titbits, the actors/performers of the day were more protected by the studios (which was both a good and a bad thing - dependent on who you were and what you did, I guess).
And the title of the series is actually so un-PC! I think she's great. (And actually, very pretty in real life, which has nothing to do with her actual character, as I have already said).
The thing is, in the days of people like Cyd (and all the other big stars of the era) the public never really got to know anything about their personal lives. They existed on what they were fed by the Hollywood publicity machines, which were run by the studios which in turn were run by the heads of those studios, who were immensely powerful (not like today, when studios are basically run by money men). It's why secrets such as Rock Hudson's sexuality were able to remain a secret. Why scandals were kept under wraps for longer - although scandals did emerge; it just took a while.
The internet has, of course, made everything so much more accessible and rumours now run rampant about various big 'Stars' - they might not be true but people can really buy into them (humans are very gullible) and before long a 'rumour' can become a 'fact' without any actual proof ever being put forward into the public domain. (This is also true of the preponderance of 'conspiracy' sites, where invented 'facts' and 'half-truths' - not to mention cherry-picked and altered quotes from influential people can be skewed in such a way to attract those who want to believe and who then become zealots, inent on 'the truth', utterly convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Of course, conspiracy theories have always been around, but the internet has increased their number and their fervour).
Oops! Off on a tangent there! But sometimes I long for the 'easier' times - the times when there wasn't this incredible thirst for juicy titbits on everyone from the biggest star to the lowliest 'Z' celeb. Although in the days of Cyd and her ilk, people were interested and there was a certain desire for the same 'juicy' titbits, the actors/performers of the day were more protected by the studios (which was both a good and a bad thing - dependent on who you were and what you did, I guess).
Wow fab post and of course spot on regarding the advent of the internet influencing vastly what we see and how we perceive the stars of today (oh great I just read that Spears woman is in labour as I type and will be giving birth imminently .... how would I ever have lived without that information..:rolleyes:)
That said , I wonder if the same internet-gossip column machine we are living with will stifle the potential stars of today - where what brand of knickers someone wears or a vpl on the beach takes precedence over whether that individual is talented and has potential for greatness.
Wow fab post and of course spot on regarding the advent of the internet influencing vastly what we see and how we perceive the stars of today (oh great I just read that Spears woman is in labour as I type and will be giving birth imminently .... how would I ever have lived without that information..:rolleyes:)
That said , I wonder if the same internet-gossip column machine we are living with will stifle the potential stars of today - where what brand of knickers someone wears or a vpl on the beach takes precedence over whether that individual is talented and has potential for greatness.
Thanks, Cloud. As you can see, I'm not one for brevity (well, not often!:D)
I think the internet does have an influence over those in the public eye (not so much their behaviour), but the media are also to blame for this, in becoming more prone to reporting salacious gossp (whether true or not - an 'allege' at the beginning of a sentence can prevent libel /slander cases, but it does feed the imaginations of the public and they soon forget the 'allege' and just focus on the rest of the story, true or not.
Whether this translates into box office figures dwindling or rising (dependent on how the public feel about 'their' stars or a TV personality keeping or losing their job over a perceived wrong they have done their viewing public (personally I think that certain items of 'news' have been blown way, way out of proportion, in conjunction with some of the 'public' reaction. Unfortunately, the the advent of the internet and the media's obsession with each and every 'foible' of actors/singers/personalities has fuelled the public's notion that they actually 'own' these people. That people in the public eye should not have and do not deserve private lives and whatever they do should be open to scrupulous examination by us. I wonder how they would feel if the shoe was on the other foot and we were all told that each and every one of us was answerable to everyone else whatever we did - whether we got drunk, fell pregnant, had an affair, had a gastric band fitted:) - I think we would be a little upset (to say the least!) and would basically say that it was no-one else's business but our own.
So why do we expect performers of any description to be any different? They're human too, with the same faults and flaws as the rest of us. The only difference is that their career is public - and that's as it should be. But their careers are totally separate (or should be) from their private lives.
Not that I haven't criticised those who have - for instance - made things public on purpose in order to hurt someone else - that's a little different. But it's a fine line.
And in the 'olden' days, during the era of Cyd, Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers etc etc etc - the Hollywood PR people protected them from all of this. Was the public's appetite for such things as rapacious as it is now? Maybe so - it just never got sated - it just got drip fed a little bit at a time - and not often with the true facts (if they were things the studios didn't want to be known because it would affect the star's career or standing with the public). On the other hand, I have no doubt that if a studio and star 'fell out; they could be as ruthless in the other way and let slip little things that could potentially ruin an actor!
It's unfortunate that some of the public (certainly not all - I can see from some of the threads on here that there are others who are of the same mindset as some of us) can't see beyond 'what brand knickers someone does or doesn't wear etc to the person themself, but then, that goes back to the fact that they don't know the person personally. They're making snap judgements on what they're fed by the media and the internet and the internet just feeds into that frenzy for salacious gossip - it often reminds me of 'Chinese Whispers'!
And in the 'olden' days, during the era of Cyd, Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers etc etc etc - the Hollywood PR people protected them from all of this. Was the public's appetite for such things as rapacious as it is now? Maybe so - it just never got sated - it just got drip fed a little bit at a time -
It's possible the public didn't have an appetite for salacious gossip. Post Fatty Arbuckle many stars did things that were terrible, but the public didn't get to know, but perhaps they didn't want to. Then, they went to the pictures nightly, or so we get told today, and looked up at the stars on the silver screen with wonderment. They wanted stars who were glamourous and unapproachable. They wanted aspiration and to think of them as other-worldly. I don't think that's naivety, as we're led to believe that the desire for gossip doesn't affect Bollywood stars, the best representation of Hollywood's Golden Age today.
I reckon it was more about what people wanted out of life. Coming out of wars and depression people wanted taken away to another place and to dream and to aspire to visit that wondrous place. Now it's all so much dirtier and less aspirational because the dream is achievable. People can see that talent free nobodies can become famous, so where's the aspiration? I'm a talent-free, useless waste of space, the argument seems to go, so why can't I be a star too? It then follows that we (that's we as in the vacuous no-marks who are interested in celebs) want our idols to be brought down to our level through gossip and learning about every bit of information about their worthless lives.
I'm droning but I'm trying to get to the thought that once we aspired to bring ourselves up to the level of the stars and now we want the celebs brought down to our level.
I forgot to mention to you yesterday that Cyd played a straight acting role extremely well in the all star 1949 release, East Side, West Side, starring Barbara Stanwyck, James Mason, Van Heflin, Ava Gardner, and a young starlet making her debut, Nancy Davis, later to become Mrs Reagan, and The First Lady. It is often shown on TCM, and is also available on Amazon.co.uk for as little as £6.70
Sad to hear of this beautiful dancer's death - but glad to learn from the bbc site that, although the heydays of musical films were over, she enjoyed a long working life, making her Broadway debut aged 70(!) in Grand Hotel, "reprising Greta Garbo's role", and continuing to play small tv roles. My early tv diet consisted of lavish Hollywood musicals and Westerns which is why my early ambitions were to be a dancer or to run off and join a cattle drive with Rowdy Yates (a very young and yummy Clint Eastwood)! In the end did neither, despite ballet lessons and a couple of frightening horse-riding sessions - went to college, taught for a while, got married, had children. That's life!:)
Shani Wallis was just astonishing in that role. She took it and really made it her own. She was brassy and hard on the outside (as she had to be being Bill Sikes' lover and the way they lived), and kind hearted and sweet on the inside. Her voice was amazing and 'As long as he needs me' remains one of my all-time favourite songs - as performed by her and her alone.
Fantastic performance and I still can't watch her murder without feeling a headache coming on.
Very, very good movie, great acting and some very good sonmgs.
Think my favourite was the title song
Very, very good movie, great acting and some very good sonmgs.
Think my favourite was the title song
What gives me immense joy not just about this movie but most of this ilk is that now I have a niece and nephew, 3 and 4 respectively and it's so uplifting to see them watch these films , loving all the music, singing and dancing. And of course a great excuse when they visit for me to put the films on and enjoy them myself
I have just found the official Cyd site, although it has not been updated to announce her death. It is worth taking a look at just to see the stunning photo's. http://www.humorinthenews.com/cyd/
It just occured to me that Cyd had a leading role as the other woman in Dean Martin's life in Marilyn Monroe's last unfinished film Something got to Give. There is a DVD available of all the scenes that Marilyn filmed, and there are some stunning shots of 39 year old Cyd.
Yes, it now focuses on real Hollywood stars, some of whom are dead
I think this forum will split into 2 camps:
1. The camp that write on these old stars
2. The younger generation
I hope there will be some crossover, and the division will not be permanent
Err, I'm 26 but really enjoying my time in camp 1. I don't think being young has to equal ignorance about the golden era of Hollywood
Gorden McRae was mentioned a few posts back... I was a little bit in love with him when I was little, as Billy Bigelow and Curly! But my main childhood love was always Russ Tamblyn, imagine my little face when he pegged it in West Side Story
Err, I'm 26 but really enjoying my time in camp 1. I don't think being young has to equal ignorance about the golden era of Hollywood
Gorden McRae was mentioned a few posts back... I was a little bit in love with him when I was little, as Billy Bigelow and Curly! But my main childhood love was always Russ Tamblyn, imagine my little face when he pegged it in West Side Story
Gordon was also terrific in those Doris Day musicals, By the Light of the Silvery Moon and On Moonlight Bay. Russ Tamblyn started off in films as a child, he was Liz Taylor's young brother in Father of the Bride. It was as another brother when he really made it big, in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. He turned up as a surprise guest on Howard Keel's This is Your Life. A little greyer, and thicker around the waist, but the genuine affection that they had for each other was very touching, and a delight to watch!
Gordon was also terrific in those Doris Day musicals, By the Light of the Silvery Moon and On Moonlight Bay. Russ Tamblyn started off in films as a child, he was Liz Taylor's young brother in Father of the Bride. It was as another brother when he really made it big, in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. He turned up as a surprise guest on Howard Keel's This is Your Life. A little greyer, and thicker around the waist, but the genuine affection that they had for each other was very touching, and a delight to watch!
Oh I never realised Gordon was in that! I've seen it a couple of times too, strange. I must've forgotten
Now I've got: "By the liiiight (by the liiiight), of the silvery moooooon" going through my head!
Wonder if I can dig that out on Youtube, I have seen Russ T in more recent years but he looked v different to how I remember him... I think he was in Twin Peaks :eek:
Oh I never realised Gordon was in that! I've seen it a couple of times too, strange. I must've forgotten
Now I've got: "By the liiiight (by the liiiight), of the silvery moooooon" going through my head!
Wonder if I can dig that out on Youtube, I have seen Russ T in more recent years but he looked v different to how I remember him... I think he was in Twin Peaks :eek:
It was two years after their first film together, and they played the same characters.
Not surprising that Russ has changed, he was only 20 when he appeared in Seven Brides. He is 74 now, and I know only too well that I have changed since I first saw that great film as a fresh faced 17 year old.
It was two years after their first film together, and they played the same characters.
Not surprising that Russ has changed, he was only 20 when he appeared in Seven Brides. He is 74 now, and I know only too well that I have changed since I first saw that great film as a fresh faced 17 year old.
Seven Brides was the first film I ever saw, apparently. I was only 3, so I don't remember it from then. It was never shown on TV for years, but it did get a cinema release when I was in my teens, to both my mother's and my delight.
Speaking of the Brothers, opening the June edition of Vanity Fair and looking at the contributors, I saw that there was a piece by Jacques D'Amboise. He's looking pretty good too.
Seven Brides was the first film I ever saw, apparently. I was only 3, so I don't remember it from then. It was never shown on TV for years, but it did get a cinema release when I was in my teens, to both my mother's and my delight.
Speaking of the Brothers, opening the June edition of Vanity Fair and looking at the contributors, I saw that there was a piece by Jacques D'Amboise. He's looking pretty good too.
I bought a special edition of Seven Brides at HMV for just £5, and there are some really terrific bargains online!
Comments
Ugly Betty for the White House I say ! Don't ever change my dear !
And the title of the series is actually so un-PC! I think she's great. (And actually, very pretty in real life, which has nothing to do with her actual character, as I have already said).
The thing is, in the days of people like Cyd (and all the other big stars of the era) the public never really got to know anything about their personal lives. They existed on what they were fed by the Hollywood publicity machines, which were run by the studios which in turn were run by the heads of those studios, who were immensely powerful (not like today, when studios are basically run by money men). It's why secrets such as Rock Hudson's sexuality were able to remain a secret. Why scandals were kept under wraps for longer - although scandals did emerge; it just took a while.
The internet has, of course, made everything so much more accessible and rumours now run rampant about various big 'Stars' - they might not be true but people can really buy into them (humans are very gullible) and before long a 'rumour' can become a 'fact' without any actual proof ever being put forward into the public domain. (This is also true of the preponderance of 'conspiracy' sites, where invented 'facts' and 'half-truths' - not to mention cherry-picked and altered quotes from influential people can be skewed in such a way to attract those who want to believe and who then become zealots, intent on 'the truth', utterly convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Of course, conspiracy theories have always been around, but the internet has increased their number and their fervour).
Oops! Off on a tangent there! But sometimes I long for the 'easier' times - the times when there wasn't this incredible thirst for juicy titbits on everyone from the biggest star to the lowliest 'Z' celeb. Although in the days of Cyd and her ilk, people were interested and there was a certain desire for the same 'juicy' titbits, the actors/performers of the day were more protected by the studios (which was both a good and a bad thing - dependent on who you were and what you did, I guess).
Wow fab post and of course spot on regarding the advent of the internet influencing vastly what we see and how we perceive the stars of today (oh great I just read that Spears woman is in labour as I type and will be giving birth imminently .... how would I ever have lived without that information..:rolleyes:)
That said , I wonder if the same internet-gossip column machine we are living with will stifle the potential stars of today - where what brand of knickers someone wears or a vpl on the beach takes precedence over whether that individual is talented and has potential for greatness.
I just love the music in that film.
Thanks, Cloud.
I think the internet does have an influence over those in the public eye (not so much their behaviour), but the media are also to blame for this, in becoming more prone to reporting salacious gossp (whether true or not - an 'allege' at the beginning of a sentence can prevent libel /slander cases, but it does feed the imaginations of the public and they soon forget the 'allege' and just focus on the rest of the story, true or not.
Whether this translates into box office figures dwindling or rising (dependent on how the public feel about 'their' stars or a TV personality keeping or losing their job over a perceived wrong they have done their viewing public (personally I think that certain items of 'news' have been blown way, way out of proportion, in conjunction with some of the 'public' reaction. Unfortunately, the the advent of the internet and the media's obsession with each and every 'foible' of actors/singers/personalities has fuelled the public's notion that they actually 'own' these people. That people in the public eye should not have and do not deserve private lives and whatever they do should be open to scrupulous examination by us. I wonder how they would feel if the shoe was on the other foot and we were all told that each and every one of us was answerable to everyone else whatever we did - whether we got drunk, fell pregnant, had an affair, had a gastric band fitted:) - I think we would be a little upset (to say the least!) and would basically say that it was no-one else's business but our own.
So why do we expect performers of any description to be any different? They're human too, with the same faults and flaws as the rest of us. The only difference is that their career is public - and that's as it should be. But their careers are totally separate (or should be) from their private lives.
Not that I haven't criticised those who have - for instance - made things public on purpose in order to hurt someone else - that's a little different. But it's a fine line.
And in the 'olden' days, during the era of Cyd, Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers etc etc etc - the Hollywood PR people protected them from all of this. Was the public's appetite for such things as rapacious as it is now? Maybe so - it just never got sated - it just got drip fed a little bit at a time - and not often with the true facts (if they were things the studios didn't want to be known because it would affect the star's career or standing with the public). On the other hand, I have no doubt that if a studio and star 'fell out; they could be as ruthless in the other way and let slip little things that could potentially ruin an actor!
It's unfortunate that some of the public (certainly not all - I can see from some of the threads on here that there are others who are of the same mindset as some of us) can't see beyond 'what brand knickers someone does or doesn't wear etc to the person themself, but then, that goes back to the fact that they don't know the person personally. They're making snap judgements on what they're fed by the media and the internet and the internet just feeds into that frenzy for salacious gossip - it often reminds me of 'Chinese Whispers'!
It's possible the public didn't have an appetite for salacious gossip. Post Fatty Arbuckle many stars did things that were terrible, but the public didn't get to know, but perhaps they didn't want to. Then, they went to the pictures nightly, or so we get told today, and looked up at the stars on the silver screen with wonderment. They wanted stars who were glamourous and unapproachable. They wanted aspiration and to think of them as other-worldly. I don't think that's naivety, as we're led to believe that the desire for gossip doesn't affect Bollywood stars, the best representation of Hollywood's Golden Age today.
I reckon it was more about what people wanted out of life. Coming out of wars and depression people wanted taken away to another place and to dream and to aspire to visit that wondrous place. Now it's all so much dirtier and less aspirational because the dream is achievable. People can see that talent free nobodies can become famous, so where's the aspiration? I'm a talent-free, useless waste of space, the argument seems to go, so why can't I be a star too? It then follows that we (that's we as in the vacuous no-marks who are interested in celebs) want our idols to be brought down to our level through gossip and learning about every bit of information about their worthless lives.
I'm droning but I'm trying to get to the thought that once we aspired to bring ourselves up to the level of the stars and now we want the celebs brought down to our level.
http://new.uk.music.yahoo.com/blogs/guestlist/826/a-whole-poo-world
Kind of proves the above posters point that it pleases me I know , but I can't help it
How Wonderful, it proves that birds have more taste than some of the public!
*runs gracefully out of thread followed by 100' of wind machine-supported fabric*
Don't get it caught in the door!
*RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPP**
Oops! Too late!
I forgot to mention to you yesterday that Cyd played a straight acting role extremely well in the all star 1949 release, East Side, West Side, starring Barbara Stanwyck, James Mason, Van Heflin, Ava Gardner, and a young starlet making her debut, Nancy Davis, later to become Mrs Reagan, and The First Lady. It is often shown on TCM, and is also available on Amazon.co.uk for as little as £6.70
A shiver just went up my spine thinking about that
Funnily enough, I had a text just the other day from my 18 (soon to be 19) year old son asking if I remembered when we used to watch Guys & Dolls
'Sit down sit down sit down
Sit down you're rocking the boat'
Very, very good movie, great acting and some very good sonmgs.
Think my favourite was the title song
What gives me immense joy not just about this movie but most of this ilk is that now I have a niece and nephew, 3 and 4 respectively and it's so uplifting to see them watch these films , loving all the music, singing and dancing. And of course a great excuse when they visit for me to put the films on and enjoy them myself
Err, I'm 26 but really enjoying my time in camp 1. I don't think being young has to equal ignorance about the golden era of Hollywood
Gorden McRae was mentioned a few posts back... I was a little bit in love with him when I was little, as Billy Bigelow and Curly! But my main childhood love was always Russ Tamblyn, imagine my little face when he pegged it in West Side Story
Gordon was also terrific in those Doris Day musicals, By the Light of the Silvery Moon and On Moonlight Bay. Russ Tamblyn started off in films as a child, he was Liz Taylor's young brother in Father of the Bride. It was as another brother when he really made it big, in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. He turned up as a surprise guest on Howard Keel's This is Your Life. A little greyer, and thicker around the waist, but the genuine affection that they had for each other was very touching, and a delight to watch!
Oh I never realised Gordon was in that! I've seen it a couple of times too, strange. I must've forgotten
Now I've got: "By the liiiight (by the liiiight), of the silvery moooooon" going through my head!
Wonder if I can dig that out on Youtube, I have seen Russ T in more recent years but he looked v different to how I remember him... I think he was in Twin Peaks :eek:
It was two years after their first film together, and they played the same characters.
Not surprising that Russ has changed, he was only 20 when he appeared in Seven Brides. He is 74 now, and I know only too well that I have changed since I first saw that great film as a fresh faced 17 year old.
Seven Brides was the first film I ever saw, apparently. I was only 3, so I don't remember it from then. It was never shown on TV for years, but it did get a cinema release when I was in my teens, to both my mother's and my delight.
Speaking of the Brothers, opening the June edition of Vanity Fair and looking at the contributors, I saw that there was a piece by Jacques D'Amboise. He's looking pretty good too.
I bought a special edition of Seven Brides at HMV for just £5, and there are some really terrific bargains online!