The only people who moved families into the war zone were the Israelis. The Palestinians and their families were in the area when they were attacked.
It's like those weird cowboy films when some lady moves to the frontier and then gets all indignant when the Indians see her as a legitimate target.
If you want peace then you don't journey into a war and build your hut on someone else's land.
so if you go back far enough everyone isnt entitled to land thay are on as the neandertals were the first..the sad fact is that ownership changes and this is true all over the world. nation states and their territory expands and contracts , evolve and disappear over the centuries ..im not trying to be a philosopher or anything but this is what happens and some gain and some lose out.
Again, this is all silly nonsense anyway. Israel has a state that isn't going anywhere. It;s also exceeding the internationally recognised boarders of that state and denying a state to the people it displaced to form itself.
Yes they do have a state and it isn't going anywhere so why do Hamas and the PLO still refuse to recognise it?
Instead they continue their propaganda campaign of firing rockets at Israel and labelling every casualty of reprisal attacks as a civilian despite most of them being men of combatant age. Sure some of them are civilians but Israel isn't killing them for fun or because they don't want them to exist.
They don't want a two state solution, if they did Israel would sit down and discuss it with them.
Instead you have Palestinians firing 2000 rockets at Israel over a three week period and everyone pointing their finger at Israel for defending themselves whilst there are terrorists digging tunnels into Israel so they can go on a murderous rampage and Israeli civilians have to hide in bomb shelters whilst their anti missile system defends them.
so if you go back far enough everyone isnt entitled to land thay are on as the neandertals were the first..the sad fact is that ownership changes and this is true all over the world. nation states and their territory expands and contracts , evolve and disappear over the centuries ..im not trying to be a philosopher or anything but this is what happens and some gain and some lose out.
I blame those bloody tetrapods nearly 400 million years ago - crawling from the ocean onto our land and breathing our air, eating our plants and drinking fresh water that rightfully belongs to us good decent invertebrate folk.
“Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions”
League of Nations' Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine 1920
By 1900 after some Zionist inspired immigration had begun to have affect it had risen to about 12%.
The Hovevei Zion, or the Lovers of Zion, were responsible for the creation of 20 new Jewish settlements in Palestine between 1870 and 1897 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Zionism
Palestine was an Arab region until the Zionists deliberately set about seizing this land and no amount of excuses will change that. Until we in the West recognise the Arab Palestinian perspective and give it at least some of the Justice and respect it deserves we will never heal this wound. Sure we cannot pretend Israel does not exist and its safety must be a ensured but the West must seriously review the balance between the support it gives Israel and the support it gives the Palestinians if we are ever to resolve the problems.
I support the right of the Israelis, who have been persecuted for nearly 2,000 years, to have an homeland in Palestine.
I support the right of the Israelis, who have been persecuted for nearly 2,000 years, to have an homeland in Palestine.
The trouble is that whole victim-complex is probably a big part of the reason so few in the international community are willing to call Israel out on much of its BS. Its people's history is still raw.
I support the right of the Israelis, who have been persecuted for nearly 2,000 years, to have an homeland in Palestine.
Fine. But what about the people already living there whose families go back for generations? Where do they go? Well, we know really, don't we? They have been herded into a massive ghetto, isolated and blockaded, and are currently getting bombarded daily. Over 160 innocent children dead already. But hey, 'Israel has the right to defend itself' by killing children, doesn't it?
Fine. But what about the people already living there whose families go back for generations? Where do they go? Well, we know really, don't we? They have been herded into a massive ghetto, isolated and blockaded, and are currently getting bombarded daily. Over 160 innocent children dead already. But hey, 'Israel has the right to defend itself' by killing children, doesn't it?
Perhaps they can join the almost 2 million Arab Israelis living in Israel or stop trying to destroy the Jewish state and have their own country.
Perhaps they can join the almost 2 million Arab Israelis living in Israel or stop trying to destroy the Jewish state and have their own country.
By law Arab men have to be over 35 and women over 25 to settle in Israel. No such restrictions for Jews, of course .... not that they discriminate, or anything.
So here we have it at last , the UN have finally stated what everybody knew that the Israelis may be responsible for war crime. How the jackboot of Hitler and his henchmen have turned into the modern day Israeli state.
Everybody must watch and see if the UN pursues war crimes against Israeli leaders.
Godwinned from post 1, the first post. Well done. Whatever Israel are up to at the moment, it's in a completely different league to what happened during the Hitler regime. I'd better leave it at that, as I don't want to embarrass you by your obvious lack of historical knowledge.
Perhaps they can join the almost 2 million Arab Israelis living in Israel or stop trying to destroy the Jewish state and have their own country.
How can they? They are blockaded and ghettoised. And yes, there are 2 million Arab Israelis living in Israel, but unfortunately not quite equal, especially when it comes to land rights. Personally, I think the Balfour Declaration was a disgrace, promising a land to a people who hadn't lived on that land for generation after generation, and making no allowance for the people who actually owned the land. But it exists now, and that's the reality. However, that does not give them the right to expand their borders by kicking Arabs off their land and building settlements. I have no time for Hamas or any of the other brutal killers in that region, but Israel , for all it's claims of being the only democracy in the Middle East, is behaving like a pariah state.
Given Britain's role in the Balfour Declaration maybe we should give citizenship to all the Palestinians before they end up like the Native Americans which seems to be the endgame for Israel and the US.
Godwinned from post 1, the first post. Well done. Whatever Israel are up to at the moment, it's in a completely different league to what happened during the Hitler regime. I'd better leave it at that, as I don't want to embarrass you by your obvious lack of historical knowledge.
Who gives a toss about the so called Godwin's Law. But yes, the comparison is wrong, they are not behaving like the Hitler regime. However, as a people who suffered enormous injustice, why can't they see the suffering they are inflicting on another people. Their behaviour is not dissimilar to how Serbia behaved towards Kosovo, and we didn't tolerate that, but Israel, of course, is 'the only democracy in the Middle East', so it's all ok, apparently.
By law Arab men have to be over 35 and women over 25 to settle in Israel. No such restrictions for Jews, of course .... not that they discriminate, or anything.
You've got it wrong. They have to be under 35 and women under 25 for automatic citizenship and it is only for marriage.
Who gives a toss about the so called Godwin's Law. But yes, the comparison is wrong, they are not behaving like the Hitler regime. However, as a people who suffered enormous injustice, why can't they see the suffering they are inflicting on another people. Their behaviour is not dissimilar to how Serbia behaved towards Kosovo, and we didn't tolerate that, but Israel, of course, is 'the only democracy in the Middle East', so it's all ok, apparently.
It's a simple case of fighting fire with fire, since the entire Arab world in the Middle East wishes that Israel would just simply disappear. Israel on the other hand are saying no to that, and be prepared to face the consequences if you try to take us on. As with all wars, there will be collateral damage. Whether Israel is a democracy is hardly relevant, but it's quite telling that Israel is the only democracy in that area.
A plague on both their houses. This thread is a microcosm of why it'll never be resolved - even the most impartial observer seems to feel the need to get entrenched in a side after a certain point.
Presumably it is the same for Jewish immigrants too, as that was my main point.
It wasn't your point at all. You said arab men have to be over 35 to settle in israel when they have to be under 35 if they marry an israeli to qualify for automatic citizenship.
If it was your point you didn't express it very well.
If you want to say Israel discriminates in who it grants automatic citizenship to then no-one can argue with that, they do.
So here we have it at last , the UN have finally stated what everybody knew that the Israelis may be responsible for war crime. How the jackboot of Hitler and his henchmen have turned into the modern day Israeli state.
Everybody must watch and see if the UN pursues war crimes against Israeli leaders.
Israel, that brave nation, is entitled to defend itself from terror gangs like hamas. Israel have given away far to much of their lands and where has it got them ?
The oppressed are now the oppressors. And yet if you dare question the chaos and death caused by Israelis, you are an anti semite.
That is a nice sound bite, i bet you can wrap yourself up in it and feel all warm and cozy.
How can you claim to be oppressed when you vote in to power people who have rejected israels claim for an independent state when the israelis have been invaded by 4 countries and have had thousands of bombs fired at them whilst rejecting their right to exist and claim to be oppressed because they fight back?
If you fire a rocket into Israel and they blow up your house that isn't oppression.
What are they oppressing? your right to kill Israeli's?
Hamas started this when they murdered Israeli school children. Israel were never going to just take it lying down, and they knew it. I don't always side with Israel, but I NEVER side with terrorists.
Comments
so if you go back far enough everyone isnt entitled to land thay are on as the neandertals were the first..the sad fact is that ownership changes and this is true all over the world. nation states and their territory expands and contracts , evolve and disappear over the centuries ..im not trying to be a philosopher or anything but this is what happens and some gain and some lose out.
Yes they do have a state and it isn't going anywhere so why do Hamas and the PLO still refuse to recognise it?
Instead they continue their propaganda campaign of firing rockets at Israel and labelling every casualty of reprisal attacks as a civilian despite most of them being men of combatant age. Sure some of them are civilians but Israel isn't killing them for fun or because they don't want them to exist.
They don't want a two state solution, if they did Israel would sit down and discuss it with them.
Instead you have Palestinians firing 2000 rockets at Israel over a three week period and everyone pointing their finger at Israel for defending themselves whilst there are terrorists digging tunnels into Israel so they can go on a murderous rampage and Israeli civilians have to hide in bomb shelters whilst their anti missile system defends them.
I blame those bloody tetrapods nearly 400 million years ago - crawling from the ocean onto our land and breathing our air, eating our plants and drinking fresh water that rightfully belongs to us good decent invertebrate folk.
The thieving bastards. >:(
I support the right of the Israelis, who have been persecuted for nearly 2,000 years, to have an homeland in Palestine.
The trouble is that whole victim-complex is probably a big part of the reason so few in the international community are willing to call Israel out on much of its BS. Its people's history is still raw.
And where should the displaced Palestinians find their home?
Fine. But what about the people already living there whose families go back for generations? Where do they go? Well, we know really, don't we? They have been herded into a massive ghetto, isolated and blockaded, and are currently getting bombarded daily. Over 160 innocent children dead already. But hey, 'Israel has the right to defend itself' by killing children, doesn't it?
Perhaps they can join the almost 2 million Arab Israelis living in Israel or stop trying to destroy the Jewish state and have their own country.
By law Arab men have to be over 35 and women over 25 to settle in Israel. No such restrictions for Jews, of course .... not that they discriminate, or anything.
Godwinned from post 1, the first post. Well done. Whatever Israel are up to at the moment, it's in a completely different league to what happened during the Hitler regime. I'd better leave it at that, as I don't want to embarrass you by your obvious lack of historical knowledge.
How can they? They are blockaded and ghettoised. And yes, there are 2 million Arab Israelis living in Israel, but unfortunately not quite equal, especially when it comes to land rights. Personally, I think the Balfour Declaration was a disgrace, promising a land to a people who hadn't lived on that land for generation after generation, and making no allowance for the people who actually owned the land. But it exists now, and that's the reality. However, that does not give them the right to expand their borders by kicking Arabs off their land and building settlements. I have no time for Hamas or any of the other brutal killers in that region, but Israel , for all it's claims of being the only democracy in the Middle East, is behaving like a pariah state.
I can't believe that people are even trying to compare what is happening in the Middle East with Israel right now, with the holocaust.
Who gives a toss about the so called Godwin's Law. But yes, the comparison is wrong, they are not behaving like the Hitler regime. However, as a people who suffered enormous injustice, why can't they see the suffering they are inflicting on another people. Their behaviour is not dissimilar to how Serbia behaved towards Kosovo, and we didn't tolerate that, but Israel, of course, is 'the only democracy in the Middle East', so it's all ok, apparently.
You've got it wrong. They have to be under 35 and women under 25 for automatic citizenship and it is only for marriage.
It's a simple case of fighting fire with fire, since the entire Arab world in the Middle East wishes that Israel would just simply disappear. Israel on the other hand are saying no to that, and be prepared to face the consequences if you try to take us on. As with all wars, there will be collateral damage. Whether Israel is a democracy is hardly relevant, but it's quite telling that Israel is the only democracy in that area.
Presumably it is the same for Jewish immigrants too, as that was my main point.
It wasn't your point at all. You said arab men have to be over 35 to settle in israel when they have to be under 35 if they marry an israeli to qualify for automatic citizenship.
If it was your point you didn't express it very well.
If you want to say Israel discriminates in who it grants automatic citizenship to then no-one can argue with that, they do.
Hamas and their supporters are sinners.
That is a nice sound bite, i bet you can wrap yourself up in it and feel all warm and cozy.
How can you claim to be oppressed when you vote in to power people who have rejected israels claim for an independent state when the israelis have been invaded by 4 countries and have had thousands of bombs fired at them whilst rejecting their right to exist and claim to be oppressed because they fight back?
If you fire a rocket into Israel and they blow up your house that isn't oppression.
What are they oppressing? your right to kill Israeli's?