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Was this customer right to shout at me?

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    The WizardThe Wizard Posts: 11,071
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    Watcher #1 wrote: »
    And some customers need to get it into their thick arrogant heads that retail staff should not be treated like crap. The customer is not always right, and, in my experience, a reasonable tone and treating people well will get you far further than being an entitled asshole.

    Frankly, anyone who doesn't check the best before dates when shopping is a bit daft - you can get a week's difference on many products for just a few seconds of effort. And as the shop was selling a product that was clearly in date, the original complainant was wrong.

    I never advocated customers abusing staff as this is out of order but quite honestly you can't help but get your back up with some staff when you're trying to get something sorted and all you get is the couldn't care less attitude and get fobbed off with a load of excuses and get told that somehow it's MY stupid fault.

    When the staff couldn't care less and shrug their shoulders and they treat the customer as an inconvenience and try to treat them as idiots and blame their own bad practice on customer stupidity then they really don't deserve any customers.

    I know it's a bit of an arrogant line to use but customers really do pay your wages so if you want to keep your job then you need to be doing all you can to keep customers happy and satisfied and not try to fob people off. I'm sure the OP didn't deserve to be on the receiving end of an angry customer but you can't blame the customer because the shop is selling stale bread. He had every right to complain if the product he bought wasn't up to standard and the shop didn't appear to be bothered about it.
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    TrollHunterTrollHunter Posts: 12,496
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    Just wondering, how old was the daughter who bought the bread?
    If she was a child then pops should have taken it on the chin - a child isn't expected to know about best before dates.
    If it was an adult, pops should be embarrassed for her dimwittery in not knowing about best before dates.

    I'm struggling to find a reason why it could be anyone other than the daughter/father's fault.


    Oh, and Senòr Manbaby, bravo :D
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 578
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    Some customer service departments are very good at managing angry/annoying people.
    I was a shop floor worker at Asda working on Frozen foods - I used to wear a big fluffy jacket and gloves and carrying about bags of Ice etc but I would still get people asking me why there wasn't any maple syrup or similar (my brain would say - how in the **** am I supposed to know FFS!) I was however very polite and would always go and try and find some for them in the back, even though I had no clue at all where on earth to look in the GIANT warehouse at the back.

    top tip - if its not on the shelf ask at customer services, the girls on George probably don't know why there isn't any bread and the guys working on the music counter probably don't know why the beans have run out, equally the people in the Frozen Isle probably dont know why we havent got Lady Gaga's latest LP. I know its a bit difficult to grasp that but I kind of picked up on it by the time I was around 7.

    Mercedes impressed me though, my dad called them and asked for a part for his car and he said "I am not sure if you will have any as it is quite old", the chap on the other side asked "how old?" and Dad said "its a 1973 280" - the chap on the other end said "that's not old" - respect!
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    zx50zx50 Posts: 91,273
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    I work in retail and today a customer rang up ranting and raving that his daughter bought a loaf of bread with a best before date 13/11

    i asked politely what was the issue and he was shouting that he was sick of supermarkets thinking we can rip off customers! He said we was conning him by selling him bread that goes off today

    he said that we should have got rid of all the bread last night but i explained it was standard practise everywhere to thrown out of date products at the end of the day

    dp you think the customer was over the top because i was a bit shaken by his attitude and aggressiveness on thebphone

    I think some customers know they can treat shop staff, at times, very badly, because they know that the customer is nearly always thought of as the far more superior one. I think the fella you spoke to went way over the top. He should have just explained what happened instead of raising his voice nearly straight away. Treat shop staff okay and this will make them want to help you all the more.
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    zx50zx50 Posts: 91,273
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    Some customer service departments are very good at managing angry/annoying people.
    I was a shop floor worker at Asda working on Frozen foods - I used to wear a big fluffy jacket and gloves and carrying about bags of Ice etc but I would still get people asking me why there wasn't any maple syrup or similar (my brain would say - how in the **** am I supposed to know FFS!) I was however very polite and would always go and try and find some for them in the back, even though I had no clue at all where on earth to look in the GIANT warehouse at the back.

    top tip - if its not on the shelf ask at customer services, the girls on George probably don't know why there isn't any bread and the guys working on the music counter probably don't know why the beans have run out, equally the people in the Frozen Isle probably dont know why we havent got Lady Gaga's latest LP. I know its a bit difficult to grasp that but I kind of picked up on it by the time I was around 7.

    Mercedes impressed me though, my dad called them and asked for a part for his car and he said "I am not sure if you will have any as it is quite old", the chap on the other side asked "how old?" and Dad said "its a 1973 280" - the chap on the other end said "that's not old" - respect!

    Makes perfect sense.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 578
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    zx50 wrote: »
    Makes perfect sense.

    To us 'normals' it does, but shoppers are an altogether different breed - honest to god!
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    oulandyoulandy Posts: 18,242
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    Go on then, Senor Manbaby, give a couple of examples of times when it's okay to throw a wobbler at an underpaid and totally uncaring stranger.

    Particularly this vague, sketchy Eastenders plot you hinted at, where somehow the CS fella is responsible for your dead loved ones and your lost job. I'm really curious to see how that one went.



    p.s - "I know you are, but what am I?" is also A Thing Literal Children Do.

    For someone who is, I think, advocating reasoned, reasonable, polite "adult" behaviour, it's ironic that you seem rather hostile and angry, even to the point of name-calling another poster with a different point of view from yours. This does rather support the other poster's argument, rather than yours.

    I think it's reasonable to allow that people sometimes do get angry over something they bought, even if they have got the wrong end of the stick or got into a blind rage before they have reasoned that they should have checked the date themselves. In the same way, we recognise and make allowances for the fact that things get heated on here in discussion.

    People who work in shops are bound to get angry customers from time to time and most are trained in how to deal with it. High on the list must be not to take it too personally and to realise that people have built up a head of steam and want to vent. Usually they will subside if met with calm competence rather than anger in kind.
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    The WizardThe Wizard Posts: 11,071
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    Retail staff in this country seem to have a bad attitude to work and the customer is seen as an inconvenience to their otherwise peaceful day. The only thing they seem interested in is turning up for the money and going home with as little interruptions as possible. They have this attitude like it's them which are doing ME the favour. Everything seems too much trouble to help you like it's putting them out. If you ask a question they don't know the answer to they have no intentions of trying to find out. Quite often you just get fobbed off with any old excuse just to pacify you.

    If you complain, you get an unmeaningful apology followed by 'but there's nothing I can do.' More like there's nothing you're 'prepared' to do because it's funny how when you kick up a stink they manage to do something which just 5 minutes earlier said was impossible.

    It seems the only way to get any service in this country is to rant till you're blue in the face otherwise they'll just fob you off and hope you go away with your tail between your legs. It's no wonder customers lose patience with retail staff.
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    Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    woodbush wrote: »
    You know Si in all my life I have never raised by voice at any shop employee.

    Then you're either very lucky to have always dealt with competent and/or courteous people or you're content to let yourself get walked all over.

    In the case of my car, for example, my missus phoned the garage every day and was told a variety of stories but it was only after I had a set-to with the owner that actual progress was made.

    I actually know this to be true because I checked with the local Toyota main dealer and they had no contact with the garage for the previous month and then, after I confronted the owner, the garage phoned them several times for advice and ordered a bunch of parts.

    Some people always take the easiest option and, in those cases, you will be forced to make sorting out your problem the easy option compared with getting involved in an(other) argument.
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    The WizardThe Wizard Posts: 11,071
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    Some customer service departments are very good at managing angry/annoying people.
    I was a shop floor worker at Asda working on Frozen foods - I used to wear a big fluffy jacket and gloves and carrying about bags of Ice etc but I would still get people asking me why there wasn't any maple syrup or similar (my brain would say - how in the **** am I supposed to know FFS!) I was however very polite and would always go and try and find some for them in the back, even though I had no clue at all where on earth to look in the GIANT warehouse at the back.

    top tip - if its not on the shelf ask at customer services, the girls on George probably don't know why there isn't any bread and the guys working on the music counter probably don't know why the beans have run out, equally the people in the Frozen Isle probably dont know why we havent got Lady Gaga's latest LP. I know its a bit difficult to grasp that but I kind of picked up on it by the time I was around 7.

    Mercedes impressed me though, my dad called them and asked for a part for his car and he said "I am not sure if you will have any as it is quite old", the chap on the other side asked "how old?" and Dad said "its a 1973 280" - the chap on the other end said "that's not old" - respect!

    Have you ever stopped to consider that the reason customers do this is because of a total absence of staff out on the shop floor and they don't really wish to queue up for ages at a till or stand for ages waiting to be seen at customer services while they deal with another customer.

    Asda is pretty well staffed but our local Tesco and co-op it's like a game of hide and seek with the staff. You're wandering about all over the place to find a free member of staff so usually by the time you find one it's like, 'right, you'll do.'
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    Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    The Wizard wrote: »
    Have you ever stopped to consider that the reason customers do this is because of a total absence of staff out on the shop floor and they don't really wish to queue up for ages at a till or stand for ages waiting to be seen at customer services while they deal with another customer.

    Have to say, I agree with this.

    If you work in the music department and somebody asks you where the frozen peas are, it's not because we expect you to know.
    It's because you work in the f**king store and we expect you to be able to contact somebody who DOES know.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 578
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    The Wizard wrote: »
    Have you ever stopped to consider that the reason customers do this is because of a total absence of staff out on the shop floor and they don't really wish to queue up for ages at a till or stand for ages waiting to be seen at customer services while they deal with another customer.

    Adds is pretty well staffed but our local Tesco and co-op it's like a game of hide and seek with the staff. You're wandering about all over the place to first d a free member of staff so usually by the time you find one it's like, 'right, you'll do.'

    The problem being then, the member of staff you collar has no idea whatsoever where the stores guys hide whatever it is that you are after so they wander aimlessly about the warehouse at the back looking for mushy peas, squeezing between a row of cages 13 deep and pallets full of god knows what. When they return 20 minutes later, cut, bruised and exhausted but empty handed they just receive an annoyed tut and a lecture about how bad the shop is.
    they then return to the job they are supposed to be doing and get busted by their manager for abandoning their post - winner!

    Its like turning up at an office and asking the cleaner why the finance report was late this month, and what are the irregularities on the Japan deal. or screaming at the accountant because there is a very strong smell of bleach in the womens toilet and no loo roll in one cubicle.

    That kind of retardation isn't socially acceptable in society but retail is fair game for stupidity.
    I was very relieved to leave the sector when I finished at university, before the dumb wore off on me, I still feel a bit 'special' and tarnished for going anywhere near it in the first place.
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    jeffiner1892jeffiner1892 Posts: 14,331
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    oulandy wrote: »

    People who work in shops are bound to get angry customers from time to time and most are trained in how to deal with it. High on the list must be not to take it too personally and to realise that people have built up a head of steam and want to vent. Usually they will subside if met with calm competence rather than anger in kind.

    I just let them vent and then add, "well okay then, if you're finished" and then work from there.

    Some whine about the stupidest things though or personally blame you for something not even remotely your fault.

    A customer got her repaired mobile delivered to the wrong address but apparently that's not the courier's fault for being stupid, it's Samsung's fault for using this courier and MY fault personally for sending the phone (even though it doesn't come anywhere near me as I'm just a troubleshooter).
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    The WizardThe Wizard Posts: 11,071
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    The problem being then, the member of staff you collar has no idea whatsoever where the stores guys hide whatever it is that you are after so they wander aimlessly about the warehouse at the back looking for mushy peas, squeezing between a row of cages 13 deep and pallets full of god knows what. When they return 20 minutes later, cut, bruised and exhausted but empty handed they just receive an annoyed tut and a lecture about how bad the shop is.
    they then return to the job they are supposed to be doing and get busted by their manager for abandoning their post - winner!

    Its like turning up at an office and asking the cleaner why the finance report was late this month, and what are the irregularities on the Japan deal. or screaming at the accountant because there is a very strong smell of bleach in the womens toilet and no loo roll in one cubicle.

    That kind of retardation isn't socially acceptable in society but retail is fair game for stupidity.
    I was very relieved to leave the sector when I finished at university, before the dumb wore off on me, I still feel a bit 'special' and tarnished for going anywhere near it in the first place.

    It's not the same thing at all. If you work in a supermarket every day, the chances are you're gonna have a better idea of where stuff is seeing as you have to walk through it every day and also most probably do your own shopping there too.

    On a complete absence of staff i've even been known to ask fellow shoppers if they know where something is. If they don't then fair enough but the chances are as a regular visitor to the store they might just know and be able to help. Why is that so stupid?

    As for society, it happens quite a lot. Have you never flagged someone down in your car or stopped someone in the street to ask for directions?
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    missy83missy83 Posts: 14,299
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    The Wizard wrote: »
    Retail staff in this country seem to have a bad attitude to work and the customer is seen as an inconvenience to their otherwise peaceful day. The only thing they seem interested in is turning up for the money and going home with as little interruptions as possible. They have this attitude like it's them which are doing ME the favour. Everything seems too much trouble to help you like it's putting them out. If you ask a question they don't know the answer to they have no intentions of trying to find out. Quite often you just get fobbed off with any old excuse just to pacify you.

    No. Bad customers are seen as an inconvenience.

    The worst customers I served in retail were the ones who interrupted when I was helping others.

    The people who needed refunds every week because they didn't look at what they were buying.

    People who held up the queue ranting about price rises.

    People who dumped half eaten food around the shop meaning I had to spend time cleaning it up instead of helping customers.
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    jeffiner1892jeffiner1892 Posts: 14,331
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    Just on another note re the dates, when I worked in a Spar the best before items had to be removed the day BEFORE the date but the use by could stay on til midnight on the day. I thought all shops worked like that.
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    The WizardThe Wizard Posts: 11,071
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    I just let them vent and then add, "well okay then, if you're finished" and then work from there.

    Some whine about the stupidest things though or personally blame you for something not even remotely your fault.

    A customer got her repaired mobile delivered to the wrong address but apparently that's not the courier's fault for being stupid, it's Samsung's fault for using this courier and MY fault personally for sending the phone (even though it doesn't come anywhere near me as I'm just a troubleshooter).

    Quite often when customers use the term "You" they are talking about the company which you represent and not 'you personally'. When things go wrong and people are being pushed from pillar to post they often vent off on the first person they can find and sometimes it's the only way to get things sorted out because often if you allow them to, you will just end up getting fobbed off again with a, 'that's not my problem' attitude so by the time they get to you they've just about had enough of getting nowhere with everybody and just want it sorted.
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    HarrisonMarksHarrisonMarks Posts: 4,360
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    Some customer service departments are very good at managing angry/annoying people.
    I was a shop floor worker at Asda working on Frozen foods - I used to wear a big fluffy jacket and gloves and carrying about bags of Ice etc but I would still get people asking me why there wasn't any maple syrup or similar (my brain would say - how in the **** am I supposed to know FFS!) I was however very polite and would always go and try and find some for them in the back, even though I had no clue at all where on earth to look in the GIANT warehouse at the back.

    top tip - if its not on the shelf ask at customer services, the girls on George probably don't know why there isn't any bread and the guys working on the music counter probably don't know why the beans have run out, equally the people in the Frozen Isle probably dont know why we havent got Lady Gaga's latest LP. I know its a bit difficult to grasp that but I kind of picked up on it by the time I was around 7.

    Mercedes impressed me though, my dad called them and asked for a part for his car and he said "I am not sure if you will have any as it is quite old", the chap on the other side asked "how old?" and Dad said "its a 1973 280" - the chap on the other end said "that's not old" - respect!

    Are you sure it wasn't Iceland for whom you worked?
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 578
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    The Wizard wrote: »
    It's not the same thing at all. If you work in a supermarket every day, the chances are you're gonna have a better idea of where stuff is seeing as you have to walk through it every day and also most probably do your own shopping there too.

    On a complete absence of staff I've even been known to ask fellow shoppers if they know where something is. If they don't then fair enough but the chances are as a regular visitor to the store they might just know and be able to help. Why is that so stupid?

    As for society, it happens quite a lot. Have you never flagged someone down in your car or stopped someone in the street to ask for directions?

    Asking If I know where something is stored is fine, its when people ask why its not in stock and is there any in the back - that is where the trouble starts as Mr Music desk then has to scrabble through thousands of tonnes of shit to try and find something in a warehouse with probably 2 million items.

    The warehouse guys are also almost always outside guiding trucks in so you can never get hold of anyone who has an idea where something is kept.
    I was asked for Pollenta for example one day whilst filling the frozen chips. I didn't even know what it was let alone what tiny shelf it was hidden on behind 36 layers of pallets and cages in the warehouse.

    When I see an empty shelf I move on and either buy it elsewhere or buy it next time.
    Most supermarket shoppers though are a special breed, after working in one for about 4 years I now shop at around 2am when almost no one is in there, I don't care how bare the shelves are as long as the shop floor is bare of mongs.
    I can pick up a fresh loaf at the garage if I need one.
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    jackoljackol Posts: 7,887
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    Thats not true I AM MR SMITH

    And swearing is a sign of low intelligence so there

    Thought you and your socks had flounced
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    dee123dee123 Posts: 46,274
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    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    Er, no. :confused:

    You've never, ever once lost control of your emotions as an adult?

    Nothing has EVER happened in your life from the age of 18, which pushed you over the edge?

    Never had anyone die suddenly? Never lost your job? Etc etc.

    Don't be so silly. Your view is far, far too simple. Adults aren't infallible robots, they're people with emotions too.

    And because s**t happens you take it out on some poor random person? Pathetic.
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    The WizardThe Wizard Posts: 11,071
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    missy83 wrote: »
    No. Bad customers are seen as an inconvenience.

    The worst customers I served in retail were the ones who interrupted when I was helping others.

    The people who needed refunds every week because they didn't look at what they were buying.

    People who held up the queue ranting about price rises.

    People who dumped half eaten food around the shop meaning I had to spend time cleaning it up instead of helping customers.

    Maybe so but they are still choosing to shop in your store and could quite easily go and do all that in someone else's shop so by being awkward or treating them with disrespect you would be the ones who were losing out, not them. So isn't it better to just smile and do everything you can to help them rather than go out of your way to be unhelpful get their back up? If it wasn't for the customer you wouldn't have a job. Maybe if staff did more to be friendly and helpful to customers then they would be happier shoppers. Rather than this shrugging of shoulders and this, 'that's not my problem and there's nothing I can do' attitude.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,606
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    Hogzilla wrote: »
    I think British people aren't very good at insisting on good service - saw I'm with Victor Meldrew on the phone, in this.

    The rip off I have experienced with supermarkets, nothing to do with OP's job am sure, is when I have shopped online. As I buy mainly fresh and 'real' foods, and time and time again from Tesco's, all the fresh produce was a day or two off the sell-by. Which meant the majority of it - meant to last a family of 6 a week - would end up in the bin. They were clearly deliberately getting rid of the older stuff on the online customers.

    So in the comments section, my next order I said if they did the short dates trick again, I'd never use online shopping again. Cue the week's shpping arriving - with short dates.

    I have a one strike and you're out rule, usually with shops. Piss me off and you will never get my custom again. Although I'd imagine a phone call to rant about a loaf of bread would cost more than the loaf of bread.

    This. In Ireland, where I'm originally from, the gulf between Irish customer service and UK customer service is huge. Regardless of whether you're in a shop, on the phone to utilities etc. they speak & listen to you in a down-to-earth manner, they're sincere and use natural language as opposed to sounding robotic and like they're speaking from a script in Ireland. There's no fake offers that lure you into buying more a la Boots & WH Smiths, and you don't get the defensiveness that usually follows making a complaint.

    One of the few things I miss about the auld sod.
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    towerstowers Posts: 12,183
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    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    Not over something so small, but if it had been something more serious I don't see why not.

    The customer is always right - except when they're being downright abusive, but shouting doesn't necessarily infer being abusive. I've shouted at people before now out of sheer frustration/emotion rather than due to malice or nastiness. If you work in CS you must remember that if a customer is shouting it's probably because they're pretty damn upset.

    It seems some people also refuse to listen/take complaints seriously unless they're being shouted at, which makes it sadly necessary.

    Not really..

    My mum took her car to be MOT'd - a booked appointment - only to be told they didn't have her name down. After a few words of complaint from my mum, she later found out that she'd driven to the wrong MOT place and was booked to go somewhere else. :o

    Customers are not always right - such as the ones who delibrately wear an item of clothing once before taking it back, which is technically fraud.
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    Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    Its like turning up at an office and asking the cleaner why the finance report was late this month, and what are the irregularities on the Japan deal. or screaming at the accountant because there is a very strong smell of bleach in the womens toilet and no loo roll in one cubicle.

    Just to run with that analogy...

    If I turned up at a company, looking for a finance report, and the only person I could find was the cleaner I think I'd be more concerned if the cleaner started to shuffle about, completely incompetently, looking for the report himself.
    What I would expect the cleaner to be able to do is locate somebody who COULD help me or, at least, tell me that everybody else had gone home etc.
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