His onstage verbal attack on Karen during his opening part of his act following the revelations.
He keeps on with the sympathy inducing heart attack story. - a distraction if ever there was one
His denials are often bizarre, instead of simply saying he has never abused a minor (or anyone else), he feels compelled to say he could not do it and that it's 'not his style'. Does he protest too much.
Hiring private investigators who are 'working round the clock' to prove his innocence... hmmm... surely the 100% lack of evidence would achieve the same... exactly what will the PI's realise they cant find and how do they present that non information (if indeed he is innocent - which he isnt as he did grope and verbally abuse the girl)
Lying about being on TOTP show etc was telling too... (a long time ago, but i think you would remember events that started your career)
A gut feeling, i acknowledge i may be wrong, but a feeling nonetheless
I can't agree. I'd prefer to do time for something I didn't do than for 10 guilty men to be able to continue to abuse innocent children.
But its not about you choosing , its about a jury and evidence that proves guilt beyond doubt, and we have to stick to that , and sometimes we wont be happy with the result.
Would you be equally happy to go to prison accused of murdering your child if you were inncoent, people have before now.
He needs to stop. He's causing himself more stress by talking to the media. He's not coming across well, either. One statement of denial (or guilt) read out by his lawyer would be a better way to handle a situation like this.
All he can do is wait to see what the police decide.
It's very different to how it was presented when she was unnamed. Then, I read that a male presenter had been driven to suicide after being stalked and sexually harrassed by a senior female DJ.
I see that she was clearly very angry at being dumped in a restaurant and having a long taxi ride home. After a row of that magnitude, I would think I'd be angry too and wouldn't want to be friends either.
If the row was bad enough to leave her alone in the restaurant, miles from where she was staying, it doesn't sound as if he felt very friendly towards her either. I don't read anything about stalking or sexual harassment in that link, or anything illegal. I'm sure the atmosphere must have been terrible between them and that it would make life very unpleasant at work. That is not the same as someone being driven to suicide by sexual harrassment!
If the row started because she told him he would be sacked if he didn't put out, that would put a whole other construction on things. But on the information we have, it could be just as likely that he was depressed already and engineered the row. I don't see this as a police matter on the basis of that report, but will watch developments with interest.
Indeed and the article says that there is no evidence that the messages contributed to the death of the journalist and that he was being treated in a psychiatric hospital when he died.
However that doesn't stop the mail linking it with Saville :eek: and using to pile on the negative pressure on the BBC :rolleyes:
What part of the article leads you to think they're saying she's a predator? I didn't get that from it at all. All I got was that her and Justin Collins would make a pretty good couple.
Well I suppose we can read into the artilce just as people did when she accused people of groping her but refused to name names , this is what happens when you state certain things , if you have ever been found wanting it can come back to bite you on the bum.
Savile wasn' t subject to any scrutiny by the electorate. The Government had received the electoral mandate and were happy to use it to implement their policies.
Are we meant to believe that Currie, Clarke and The Iron Lady were powerless to stop him?
I quite agree. Surely this is the same Edwina who wrote "Attaboy!" (ick) in her diary regarding what Savile had to say about the staff at Broadmoor and suggestions he had for improvement there? Or did I dream that?
Unless anyone here is able to force a judicial change, arguing about some sort of utopian idealism of application of law is fruitless.. (and sidelining the issues at hand)
We have a judge and jury system based on who the best argument on the day.
So, instead of willing innocents becoming sacrificial lambs for the greater good, how about ensuring victims are treated more sympathetically throughout the entire process...
His onstage verbal attack on Karen during his opening part of his act following the revelations.
He keeps on with the sympathy inducing heart attack story. - a distraction if ever there was one
His denials are often bizarre, instead of simply saying he has never abused a minor (or anyone else), he feels compelled to say he could not do it and that it's 'not his style'. Does he protest too much.
Hiring private investigators who are 'working round the clock' to prove his innocence... hmmm... surely the 100% lack of evidence would achieve the same... exactly what will the PI's realise they cant find and how do they present that non information (if indeed he is innocent - which he isnt as he did grope and verbally abuse the girl)
Lying about being on TOTP show etc was telling too... (a long time ago, but i think you would remember events that started your career)
A gut feeling, i acknowledge i may be wrong, but a feeling nonetheless
Good post and I agree with all of it. I was quite surprised at how vicious his attack was on Karin, calling her an effing liar, a nutter and a fantasist. I remember thinking that the tone of the outburst was not unlike the one Karin described when she rebuffed him and he got nasty and said he wouldn't touch her anyway because she was a 'titless wonder'.... on the day he 'wasn't' at the BBC.
Sounds like it. Oh, and I see his memory's improved.
I met him three times. Once on the TV show Clunk Clink, once when he came into my sports shop in Leeds and once when he came to see me at a club in London with his mother.
Good that he can be so confidently precise now about exactly how many times and where he met Savile when it was 'all too long ago to remember' a couple of weeks ago.
Have just remembered that I had to give up a fencing class I'd done for 18 months when I was 15. I was very good at it but a different instructor turned up one week - a young married teacher. He advised friend and self to take our bras off " because it'll be easier for you ". We then caught him peeping through a hole in the cubicle. We went through the lesson...probably too stunned to do much else. At the end, he put his arm around me, kissed me lingeringly on the cheek and offered me a lift home. We never went back and I mentioned it to the teacher at school who'd told us about the outside school class.
That didn't seem a big deal at the time in fact I was used to it.In a school dance once, a supply teacher pushed in when I was dancing with friends and he was soon dragged away by two other male staff for playing with himself. I hadn't danced with him at all. In fact I'd never spoken to him. When he'd walked up I'd stopped dancing although he. didn't. All lights were on, it was 8pm and there were about 100 pupils and staff in the room. Ah well. Incidentally I was dressed 'Forsyte Saga' style in long black velvet skirt and high necked Victorian style white blouse. Hardly provocative.
Where there's an apparent opportunity, some men will try it on. So to allow someone like Jimmy Savile access to young girls seems to me to be very stupid indeed. An older man, not a qualified teacher, no one keeping an eye on him...allowed to see girls in his room for records and smoking...and allowed to take them out. :eek: They didn't have much chance did they. It was difficult enough in a grammar school for me and others who had no problems at home !
Unless anyone here is able to force a judicial change, arguing about some sort of utopian idealism of application of law is fruitless.. (and sidelining the issues at hand)
We have a judge and jury system based on who the best argument on the day.
So, instead of willing innocents becoming sacrificial lambs for the greater good, how about ensuring victims are treated more sympathetically throughout the entire process...
Surely in a fair environment victims should be treated the same as the accused, believed until proven otherwise ?
It's very different to how it was presented when she was unnamed. Then, I read that a male presenter had been driven to suicide after being stalked and sexually harrassed by a senior female DJ.
I see that she was clearly very angry at being dumped in a restaurant and having a long taxi ride home. After a row of that magnitude, I would think I'd be angry too and wouldn't want to be friends either.
If the row was bad enough to leave her alone in the restaurant, miles from where she was staying, it doesn't sound as if he felt very friendly towards her either. I don't read anything about stalking or sexual harassment in that link, or anything illegal. I'm sure the atmosphere must have been terrible between them and that it would make life very unpleasant at work. That is not the same as someone being driven to suicide by sexual harrassment!
If the row started because she told him he would be sacked if he didn't put out, that would put a whole other construction on things. But on the information we have, it could be just as likely that he was depressed already and engineered the row. I don't see this as a police matter on the basis of that report, but will watch developments with interest.
no idea, course you could flip it on the head and think maybe he tried it on with her and she told him where to go, got taxi home and sent some angry texts. No idea, it's puzzling. The dad is an ex-policeman so could be trying to sully her name for whatever reasons, who knows
I'll be keeping my eye on this and the inquest into that suspended policeman who went under the train shortly after the whole JS story broke, keeping open mind but watching;)
Yup I think the impression we got from Anna Raccoon was a slightly rose tinted view of Ms Jones, although we had already got the 'but they weren't virgins you know' thing from her on here already. Most normal girls schools don't get visits from celebrities, MPs, councillors, magistrates, Meirion was right to say something wasn't right, and maybe his aunt was too easily flattered and too tempted to have the boredom/tedium/stress of being in a secure school with 'intelligent but emotionally disturbed girls' broken up (for her and the girls) by wealthy and influential men coming to visit.
Ms Jones also came from a generation where men were (perhaps not in all cases) in charge.
When my grandfather died, my grandmother (who if she were still alive would be younger than Ms Jones) couldn't manage her household finances at all because she had never dealt with anything other than cooking and cleaning and raising the children. I'll never forget my outrage at my brother being consulted on everything by her 'because he's a boy, dear'.
Obviously Ms Jones was better educated than my grandmother but there may still have been an underlying 'hierarchy' at play here too.
Surely in a fair environment victims should be treated the same as the accused, believed until proven otherwise ?
Both parties should be treated appropriately, however, it is my view that more work needs to be done to encourage victims to speak out and then subsequently be handled with more care than is currently the case.
Obviously my view may not be overly popular, but being right is rarely popular at the time..
In a school dance once, a supply teacher pushed in when I was dancing with friends and he was soon dragged away by two other male staff for playing with himself.
Sounds like it. Oh, and I see his memory's improved.
Good that he can be so confidently precise now about exactly how many times and where he met Savile when it was 'all too long ago to remember' a couple of weeks ago.
But does not remember This is your life - Frank Bruno, Saville, and Freddie
Some do, but most don't. It's only in the last 10 years that they've had to have even a first degree. And I have to say that the content of the social work degree is not massively academic. I'm not knocking it, it's a VERY good training for the job, , but the biggest and most important elements are the work placements attached to it. Poor placements in organisations with cultures of disbelief can lead to gaps in knowledge and understanding which aren't overcome by the classroom teaching.
Well that depends entirely on where you do your degree. I disagree that many elements are the work placements attached to the degree - the work placements are in addition to the degree....but once again it depends where you do the degree. With regards to Doctors and Psychologists being better able to assess a victim of sexual abuse.......what training do you think they get on the subject when doing their degrees?
Blimey, even after that entry his access to the Duncroft girls continued unimpeded.
This seems to go beyond turning a blind eye or having to rely on the sense of how creepy he was.
Makes me wonder about the motives of any celeb wanting access to schools to visit children.
That then becomes an overreaction, many celebs visit shools for purely innocent and good reasons we should never let the bad/evil people stop or make us question in general those things that are good.
Well that depends entirely on where you do your degree. I disagree that many elements are the work placements attached to the degree - the work placements are in addition to the degree....but once again it depends where you do the degree. With regards to Doctors and Psychologists being better able to assess a victim of sexual abuse.......what training do you think they get on the subject when doing their degrees?
Sorry, I was just disagreeing on the technical point of social workers having higher degrees. Most don't, and until fairly recently, most didn't even have a first degree. The work placements are integrated into the degree. You can't graduate unless you've passed your placements.
On doctors and psychologists not necessarily being better qualified to assess abuse victims, I totally agree.
Comments
There are a number of issues with FS
His onstage verbal attack on Karen during his opening part of his act following the revelations.
He keeps on with the sympathy inducing heart attack story. - a distraction if ever there was one
His denials are often bizarre, instead of simply saying he has never abused a minor (or anyone else), he feels compelled to say he could not do it and that it's 'not his style'. Does he protest too much.
Hiring private investigators who are 'working round the clock' to prove his innocence... hmmm... surely the 100% lack of evidence would achieve the same... exactly what will the PI's realise they cant find and how do they present that non information (if indeed he is innocent - which he isnt as he did grope and verbally abuse the girl)
Lying about being on TOTP show etc was telling too... (a long time ago, but i think you would remember events that started your career)
A gut feeling, i acknowledge i may be wrong, but a feeling nonetheless
But its not about you choosing , its about a jury and evidence that proves guilt beyond doubt, and we have to stick to that , and sometimes we wont be happy with the result.
Would you be equally happy to go to prison accused of murdering your child if you were inncoent, people have before now.
He needs to stop. He's causing himself more stress by talking to the media. He's not coming across well, either. One statement of denial (or guilt) read out by his lawyer would be a better way to handle a situation like this.
All he can do is wait to see what the police decide.
Me too.
Indeed and the article says that there is no evidence that the messages contributed to the death of the journalist and that he was being treated in a psychiatric hospital when he died.
However that doesn't stop the mail linking it with Saville :eek: and using to pile on the negative pressure on the BBC :rolleyes:
Nah, he was better looking and did broadcast to a nation
Well I suppose we can read into the artilce just as people did when she accused people of groping her but refused to name names , this is what happens when you state certain things , if you have ever been found wanting it can come back to bite you on the bum.
I quite agree. Surely this is the same Edwina who wrote "Attaboy!" (ick) in her diary regarding what Savile had to say about the staff at Broadmoor and suggestions he had for improvement there? Or did I dream that?
Unless anyone here is able to force a judicial change, arguing about some sort of utopian idealism of application of law is fruitless.. (and sidelining the issues at hand)
We have a judge and jury system based on who the best argument on the day.
So, instead of willing innocents becoming sacrificial lambs for the greater good, how about ensuring victims are treated more sympathetically throughout the entire process...
Sounds like it. Oh, and I see his memory's improved.
Good that he can be so confidently precise now about exactly how many times and where he met Savile when it was 'all too long ago to remember' a couple of weeks ago.
That didn't seem a big deal at the time in fact I was used to it.In a school dance once, a supply teacher pushed in when I was dancing with friends and he was soon dragged away by two other male staff for playing with himself. I hadn't danced with him at all. In fact I'd never spoken to him. When he'd walked up I'd stopped dancing although he. didn't. All lights were on, it was 8pm and there were about 100 pupils and staff in the room. Ah well. Incidentally I was dressed 'Forsyte Saga' style in long black velvet skirt and high necked Victorian style white blouse. Hardly provocative.
Where there's an apparent opportunity, some men will try it on. So to allow someone like Jimmy Savile access to young girls seems to me to be very stupid indeed. An older man, not a qualified teacher, no one keeping an eye on him...allowed to see girls in his room for records and smoking...and allowed to take them out. :eek: They didn't have much chance did they. It was difficult enough in a grammar school for me and others who had no problems at home !
Surely in a fair environment victims should be treated the same as the accused, believed until proven otherwise ?
I really shouldn't laugh but
no idea, course you could flip it on the head and think maybe he tried it on with her and she told him where to go, got taxi home and sent some angry texts. No idea, it's puzzling. The dad is an ex-policeman so could be trying to sully her name for whatever reasons, who knows
I'll be keeping my eye on this and the inquest into that suspended policeman who went under the train shortly after the whole JS story broke, keeping open mind but watching;)
Ms Jones also came from a generation where men were (perhaps not in all cases) in charge.
When my grandfather died, my grandmother (who if she were still alive would be younger than Ms Jones) couldn't manage her household finances at all because she had never dealt with anything other than cooking and cleaning and raising the children. I'll never forget my outrage at my brother being consulted on everything by her 'because he's a boy, dear'.
Obviously Ms Jones was better educated than my grandmother but there may still have been an underlying 'hierarchy' at play here too.
Both parties should be treated appropriately, however, it is my view that more work needs to be done to encourage victims to speak out and then subsequently be handled with more care than is currently the case.
Obviously my view may not be overly popular, but being right is rarely popular at the time..
Seriously!?:eek:
I had a similar reaction.
I'm not sure any sinister meaning could have been read into that at the time.
But does not remember This is your life - Frank Bruno, Saville, and Freddie
watch 19 mins 50 secs for Saville
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE_XX5-Xkmc
Well that depends entirely on where you do your degree. I disagree that many elements are the work placements attached to the degree - the work placements are in addition to the degree....but once again it depends where you do the degree. With regards to Doctors and Psychologists being better able to assess a victim of sexual abuse.......what training do you think they get on the subject when doing their degrees?
What was it Mark_McIntyre said about him having a rant on stage? I wasn't aware of that.
That then becomes an overreaction, many celebs visit shools for purely innocent and good reasons we should never let the bad/evil people stop or make us question in general those things that are good.
Sorry, I was just disagreeing on the technical point of social workers having higher degrees. Most don't, and until fairly recently, most didn't even have a first degree. The work placements are integrated into the degree. You can't graduate unless you've passed your placements.
On doctors and psychologists not necessarily being better qualified to assess abuse victims, I totally agree.
Why is it better that 1 innocent man be protected at the expense of 10 or more innocent victims?