the parents are the ones who allowed it. He's only doing what they asked.
As a presumably experienced and qualified instructor, the final call would have been his regardless of what they asked. You would expect him to know himself the recoil of the weapon and have been able to assess the girl's ability to hold it during discharging the rounds in automatic. If he was insistent on letting her go ahead, he should have braced the weapon himself whilst she fired.
As a presumably experienced and qualified instructor, the final call would have been his regardless of what they asked.
Wouldn't an experienced and qualified instructor know that a skinny 9 yr old girl might not be able to handle the recoil of an automatic weapon? I know that and I've never taught somebody how to use one
Running around a field keeps you fit, which helps you live longer. The same cannot be said for watching someone else do it, but in terms of entertainment, it's probably fairly low risk.
Riding a bike (the original comparison) helps you get to places like work or the shops, as well as keeping you fit, and being better for the environment (and cheaper) than running a car. If you go on a nice bike ride in the countryside, it helps you appreciate the world around you.
Teaching your child how to ride a bike, or having nice family days out on proper bike trails is a much better idea than taking them to a gun range to play with an Uzi. There is a risk they'll fall off an break something, but it's not actually that big a deal, especially when you consider the benefits.
With a gun, and especially that sort of environment, there is a risk that it might be used for its original design purpose, which is to kill someone. At best, you spend your afternoon pointing something at a target and hitting it. You might get satisfaction from being able to hit the target accurately, in which case, why have an Uzi? There are quite a lot of alternatives to guns that will serve that purpose, but some just like the thrill of playing with something lethal.
I used to be a range officer at a local gun range and we had several families who came along each week with their kids, the youngest of which was 7 I think. What I found was that teaching the children how to use a gun in a safe controlled manor gave them more respect for the damage that they can do and how they should not be treated as a toy. Many of their friends had air rifles that their parents had given them and would use them in ways that would get you banned from a gun range for life.
In this case the instructor and the parents were stupid for even considering allowing a child to use an automatic weapon when many adults would have a hard time controlling the thing. At my range I let one of the kids have a go with my .357 revolver but only after he had already fired several thousand rounds with the .22 rifles and even then I only put one round in the chamber and stood behind him ready to catch him if the recoil knocked hi backwards.
I just love how 300+ million people are classed as gun nutters for one stupid incident.
So on that basis then, everyone in the UK is a peadophile based on the 1400 incidents in Rotheram?
Stupid logic by stupid people.
What logic are you using? Paedophilia is illegal in the UK. Letting a child have a go of an Uzi wasn't.
Of course it's wrong to blame every American for it, but collectively, they are responsible for their own laws. I realise, this wouldn't be legal in all states, but their state level, and national level gun laws do have a lot to answer for.
I would never classify all Americans as stupid but the national stubbornness on gun control is pretty idiotic. The nra should not be able to prevent the president from passing a gun control bill. any responsible gun owner should not mind having to fill out a few more forms and bullets should not be sold in supermarkets.
Indeed. We don't see it as an infringement of our human rights to be expected to pass a driving test and fill in some forms, and get insurance, before driving a car. Apparently, it's an affront to expect people to do the equivalent with guns.
I am fully in favour of banning children from handling Uzis
Then why didn't you say that in the first place instead of following the "accidents will happen" line of reasoning?
I know there is a case to be had for saying that if you teach kids about guns when they are young they will respect them, but if they can't get access to guns, then it doesn't matter whether they respect them or not. And if you have any communication skills, it should be possible to teach your kids to respect guns without them having to have a go at them.
Do people give their kids a go of the chain saw to demonstrate how to be careful? No, they tell them to keep well clear, and those that don't are negligent.
Then why didn't you say that in the first place instead of following the "accidents will happen" line of reasoning?
When I originally started discussing it, I had in mind the argument I knew to come; that ALL guns should be banned. I still don't believe this justifies that idea.
Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. As a medical diagnosis, specific criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.[1][2][3][4] A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years of age, but adolescents who are 16 years of age or older must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia.
...
The post I was quoting was talking about a string of crimes committed in Rotherham. These incidents were illegal. If they weren't, the general public would be pushing to make them so.
If letting children play with loaded Uzis was legal in the UK, I'd campaign against it.
Whilst there are a great many Americans who are horrified by the certain/many aspects of the lack of sensible gun control in their state/country, as a population, they seem incapable of doing anything about it. Too many people, including those who are apparently against giving Uzis to children, just seem to accept that accidents will happen, and it's a price to pay for the freedom to have a gun.
This isn't the first time something like this has happened. The question is whether or not people will have the guts to amend the law, even slightly, to require a minimum age limit on the use of that sort of weapon?
I would never classify all Americans as stupid but the national stubbornness on gun control is pretty idiotic. The nra should not be able to prevent the president from passing a gun control bill. any responsible gun owner should not mind having to fill out a few more forms and bullets should not be sold in supermarkets.
You'd prefer the President to be a dictator then, and not somebody who acts according to his lobbying electorate?
In other news, 50 people weren't shot last week due to the sensible training and familiarisation with firearms given to children when they were younger.
This was clearly a grim mistake and not representative of firearns training in general.
It's not something I would do ( take a child to a gun range).
I've read comments by another range though, that they use more precautions than the range where the accident occurred.
It's up to parents ( and these parents knew about guns) to determine the risk level of any activity.
A terrible accident, not that the 9 yr old should have access to gun first place mind you.
How is it that Canada with high levels of gun ownership has much smaller gun death ratio than the US? What is the difference on both sides of the border??
You'd prefer the President to be a dictator then, and not somebody who acts according to his lobbying electorate?
If the question of gun control was put to the American people as a referendum do you think the people would overwhelming vote in support of gun ownership??
As far as I'm aware the American public have never been given that question to answer so directly.
Nothing wrong with children being taught how to use firearms responsibly, but no-one should be handling fully automatic weapons at that age; it's difficult enough for some adults to control sustained recoil.
Come on what? The gun lobby in the US is powerful because there's a lot of them, they're loud, and they know full well this gives you clout in a democracy.
Come on what? The gun lobby in the US is powerful because there's a lot of them, they're loud, and they know full well this gives you clout in a democracy.
the president should represent the interests of the public as a whole not just the obnoxious lobbyists. if anyone's dictating policy here its them. I have alot of respect for Americans- they're lovely people and it's a great place to visit but the political system sucks.
Comments
As a presumably experienced and qualified instructor, the final call would have been his regardless of what they asked. You would expect him to know himself the recoil of the weapon and have been able to assess the girl's ability to hold it during discharging the rounds in automatic. If he was insistent on letting her go ahead, he should have braced the weapon himself whilst she fired.
a reasonable debate on gd! eek.lol.
at least we do agree that gun control for the general population is a good thing.
Wouldn't an experienced and qualified instructor know that a skinny 9 yr old girl might not be able to handle the recoil of an automatic weapon? I know that and I've never taught somebody how to use one
Was he showing off for the camera a bit?
I used to be a range officer at a local gun range and we had several families who came along each week with their kids, the youngest of which was 7 I think. What I found was that teaching the children how to use a gun in a safe controlled manor gave them more respect for the damage that they can do and how they should not be treated as a toy. Many of their friends had air rifles that their parents had given them and would use them in ways that would get you banned from a gun range for life.
In this case the instructor and the parents were stupid for even considering allowing a child to use an automatic weapon when many adults would have a hard time controlling the thing. At my range I let one of the kids have a go with my .357 revolver but only after he had already fired several thousand rounds with the .22 rifles and even then I only put one round in the chamber and stood behind him ready to catch him if the recoil knocked hi backwards.
Cold Dead Hand
I've added to my post. I fired a bit too early there myself.
Yes indeed. Didn't appreciate that he wasn't actually in the normal field of fire.
Don't stand beside people with a loaded gun either, who'd have thought it.
What logic are you using? Paedophilia is illegal in the UK. Letting a child have a go of an Uzi wasn't.
Of course it's wrong to blame every American for it, but collectively, they are responsible for their own laws. I realise, this wouldn't be legal in all states, but their state level, and national level gun laws do have a lot to answer for.
Indeed. We don't see it as an infringement of our human rights to be expected to pass a driving test and fill in some forms, and get insurance, before driving a car. Apparently, it's an affront to expect people to do the equivalent with guns.
Then why didn't you say that in the first place instead of following the "accidents will happen" line of reasoning?
I know there is a case to be had for saying that if you teach kids about guns when they are young they will respect them, but if they can't get access to guns, then it doesn't matter whether they respect them or not. And if you have any communication skills, it should be possible to teach your kids to respect guns without them having to have a go at them.
Do people give their kids a go of the chain saw to demonstrate how to be careful? No, they tell them to keep well clear, and those that don't are negligent.
I'm not a gun hater. It's the 9 year old with an Uzi that i have a problem with.
Is paedophilia illegal or is it just the molesting of children?
Paedophilia
The post I was quoting was talking about a string of crimes committed in Rotherham. These incidents were illegal. If they weren't, the general public would be pushing to make them so.
If letting children play with loaded Uzis was legal in the UK, I'd campaign against it.
Whilst there are a great many Americans who are horrified by the certain/many aspects of the lack of sensible gun control in their state/country, as a population, they seem incapable of doing anything about it. Too many people, including those who are apparently against giving Uzis to children, just seem to accept that accidents will happen, and it's a price to pay for the freedom to have a gun.
This isn't the first time something like this has happened. The question is whether or not people will have the guts to amend the law, even slightly, to require a minimum age limit on the use of that sort of weapon?
She reportedly lost grip of the weapon, you know, a 9 year old girls hands around powerful automatic weapon designed for adults.
You'd prefer the President to be a dictator then, and not somebody who acts according to his lobbying electorate?
It's not something I would do ( take a child to a gun range).
I've read comments by another range though, that they use more precautions than the range where the accident occurred.
It's up to parents ( and these parents knew about guns) to determine the risk level of any activity.
Not just blame the range or the instructor.
How is it that Canada with high levels of gun ownership has much smaller gun death ratio than the US? What is the difference on both sides of the border??
If the question of gun control was put to the American people as a referendum do you think the people would overwhelming vote in support of gun ownership??
As far as I'm aware the American public have never been given that question to answer so directly.
To shoot it presumably. The principle of a nine year old holding a gun isn't exactly heinous per se.
It wasn't just any gun, it was an Uzi.
And the rules of the range allowed her to be there.
And the parents allowed her.
I imagine ranges probably want to make money, so they find something for the whole family to do.
Just because a place allows something doesn't mean a parent should agree to it.
oh come on.
Currently the majority of Americans support stricter gun laws.
Come on what? The gun lobby in the US is powerful because there's a lot of them, they're loud, and they know full well this gives you clout in a democracy.
the president should represent the interests of the public as a whole not just the obnoxious lobbyists. if anyone's dictating policy here its them. I have alot of respect for Americans- they're lovely people and it's a great place to visit but the political system sucks.