Perhaps OP had already chucked Reeva out of his house, she had climbed up the ladder that had been carelessly left by workmen, she came in through the bathroom window.....and...
This is one of those issues that disappears if the bat came first and the shots came last.
Not really, because if the shots came first he had around 10 minutes to do everything.
Its swings and roundabouts.
6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
The four shots, four bat sounds is a huge co incidence isn't it.
Almost like it was planned.
I think the defence case is 'three bat sounds' which obviously goes against the testimony of Burger who said she heard four shots (bang...bang, bang, bang) at the time that the defence is saying Pistorius used the bat.
Perhaps OP had already chucked Reeva out of his house, she had climbed up the ladder that had been carelessly left by workmen, she came in through the bathroom window.....and...
I think the defence case is 'three bat sounds' which obviously goes against the testimony of Burger who said she heard four shots (bang...bang, bang, bang) at the time that the defence is saying Pistorius used the bat.
Yes, but then she claimed she might've missed one as she was gabbing on to her husband. Oldwage then countered and said that was unlikely as she would've been in a state of alertness at the time.
Ugh! Who the hell knows.
Burger said four. Johnson didn't seem sure either way.
Now, we have the rumour and speculation about the defense pathologist bailing out....apparently that's not so, but he's not going to testify now as he has other commitments....sounds unlikely...but, even less convincing, is that they aren't relying on the content of his affidavit.....why?.
Too busy for the one of the biggest trials ever? About as convincing as Oscar's testimony.
Yes, but then she claimed she might've missed one as she was gabbing on to her husband. Oldwage then countered and said that was unlikely as she would've been in a state of alertness at the time.
Ugh! Who the hell knows.
Burger said four. Johnson didn't seem sure either way.
As you say, although she (Mrs S) wanted to have missed one, to bring it up to the 4 that the prosecution required (not that she's biased of course), three was the number she heard.
I think the defence case is 'three bat sounds' which obviously goes against the testimony of Burger who said she heard four shots (bang...bang, bang, bang) at the time that the defence is saying Pistorius used the bat.
We know it was 4 shots but it could have been 3 or 4 bat strikes plus even the odd kick from OP.
Well, if he shot her at 3:17 he didn't need to look for her, so that cuts down the time needed. It also means the door was easier to open because it was broken somewhat at 3:02.
But it does mean just 2 minutes, yes.
I'd say its 3 minutes...3:15:51 Stipps on phone to security.
Puts on his legs about 40 secs. Kicks the door. Picks up bat already in bathroom, places it into the hole he made early and levers the panel. This causes a split down the wood to bullet hole D. Rips out one panel and the others literally fall away. Key is actually in the lock, flings opens door. No comforting of Reeva, pulls her out into bathroom. Gets phone and is switched on at 3:18:45. At 3:19:03 calls Stander.
At the moment, without any 'shocking' new evidence, she surely must convict him of 'shooting somebody dead, without any immediate threat to himself'.
Agreed, but she also has to decide whether or not he's a murderer. I just can't figure it out, but I have the luxury of going on my gut feeling that he knew he was shooting Reeva, whatever caused him to do it.
I'd say its 3 minutes...3:15:51 Stipps on phone to security.
Puts on his legs about 40 secs. Kicks the door. Picks up bat already in bathroom, places it into the hole he made early and levers the panel. This causes a split down the wood to bullet hole D. Rips out one panel and the others literally fall away. Key is actually in the lock, flings opens door. No comforting of Reeva, pulls her out into bathroom. Gets phone and is switched on at 3:18:45. At 3:19:03 calls Stander.
The phone calls to security - including Dr Stipps' call were before the second set of bangs. The prosecution are adamant the second bangs are at 3:17, based on this fact.
BIB. If he shot at 3:17 he didn't need to do all that - its all fabricated. He says he shot her approx 10 - 15 minutes earlier. Which does give him time (arguably almost too much time) to do all that.
Yes, I have a big problem with that, he certainly took his time.
Also once he knew that it as Reeva in the toilet why didn't he phone for help while he was running to the bathroom to bash down the door. He jumped on Nel when he asked him why he didn't look for Reeva downstairs, saying there was no point because he knew it was her in the toilet. He wastes time unlocking the balcony doors to go out and call for help, yet doesn't think to phone security to help him get her out/call an ambulance instead. Did he think that a random (sleeping) neighbour would be more useful to him than a bunch of alert security guards.
Yes, I have a big problem with that, he certainly took his time.
Also once he knew that it as Reeva in the toilet why didn't he phone for help while he was running to the bathroom to bash down the door. He jumped on Nel when he asked him why he didn't look for Reeva downstairs, saying there was no point because he knew it was her in the toilet. He wastes time unlocking the balcony doors to go out and call for help, yet doesn't think to phone security to help him get her out/call an ambulance instead. Did he think that a random (sleeping) neighbour would be more useful to him than a bunch of alert security guards.
I agree that on his own account there seems to be time wasted. On the other hand if the account were true I'd suspect that there was some time spent almost paralysed by fear and shock, plus a lot of 'finger and thumbs' lack of coordination.
Agreed, but she also has to decide whether or not he's a murderer. I just can't figure it out, but I have the luxury of going on my gut feeling that he knew he was shooting Reeva, whatever caused him to do it.
IMO, he may not have woken that morning thinking of 'Murder', but, he led a life with guns being in the picture, in fact he even went to 'get togethers' armed.
A noise of a window opening caused an 'armed' man to expel four bullets through a closed door...........
And we are nit picking over where a magazine rack was placed!
Comments
Almost like it was planned.
Not really, because if the shots came first he had around 10 minutes to do everything.
Its swings and roundabouts.
6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
Who would do that late at night.
It needs to be locked so that ops defence, that there was no argument, no bat on the door first before deciding to get his gun, holds up.
He used the bat to get in only because the door was locked. Just too convenient
I think the defence case is 'three bat sounds' which obviously goes against the testimony of Burger who said she heard four shots (bang...bang, bang, bang) at the time that the defence is saying Pistorius used the bat.
I've seen worse theories.
Steenkamp would if she believed Pistorius was shouting at intruders and was scared.
Or
Steenkamp would if she believed Pistorius was in a rage and out to get her.
Like so much else in the trial, take your pick of the options!
Mrs Stipp says three though.
Milady will earn her pay when deciding this one.
Yes, but then she claimed she might've missed one as she was gabbing on to her husband. Oldwage then countered and said that was unlikely as she would've been in a state of alertness at the time.
Ugh! Who the hell knows.
Burger said four. Johnson didn't seem sure either way.
I don't envy her the task. Surely she must use the evidence and dismiss any 'gut instinct' that might be troubling her.
Too busy for the one of the biggest trials ever? About as convincing as Oscar's testimony.
As you say, although she (Mrs S) wanted to have missed one, to bring it up to the 4 that the prosecution required (not that she's biased of course), three was the number she heard.
Absolutely. She has to give a reasoned judgment. I will be fascinated to see it.
At the moment, without any 'shocking' new evidence, she surely must convict him of 'shooting somebody dead, without any immediate threat to himself'.
We know it was 4 shots but it could have been 3 or 4 bat strikes plus even the odd kick from OP.
I'd say its 3 minutes...3:15:51 Stipps on phone to security.
Puts on his legs about 40 secs. Kicks the door. Picks up bat already in bathroom, places it into the hole he made early and levers the panel. This causes a split down the wood to bullet hole D. Rips out one panel and the others literally fall away. Key is actually in the lock, flings opens door. No comforting of Reeva, pulls her out into bathroom. Gets phone and is switched on at 3:18:45. At 3:19:03 calls Stander.
Agreed, but she also has to decide whether or not he's a murderer. I just can't figure it out, but I have the luxury of going on my gut feeling that he knew he was shooting Reeva, whatever caused him to do it.
The phone calls to security - including Dr Stipps' call were before the second set of bangs. The prosecution are adamant the second bangs are at 3:17, based on this fact.
Good point, good comparison!
Yes, I have a big problem with that, he certainly took his time.
Also once he knew that it as Reeva in the toilet why didn't he phone for help while he was running to the bathroom to bash down the door. He jumped on Nel when he asked him why he didn't look for Reeva downstairs, saying there was no point because he knew it was her in the toilet. He wastes time unlocking the balcony doors to go out and call for help, yet doesn't think to phone security to help him get her out/call an ambulance instead. Did he think that a random (sleeping) neighbour would be more useful to him than a bunch of alert security guards.
I agree that on his own account there seems to be time wasted. On the other hand if the account were true I'd suspect that there was some time spent almost paralysed by fear and shock, plus a lot of 'finger and thumbs' lack of coordination.
IMO, he may not have woken that morning thinking of 'Murder', but, he led a life with guns being in the picture, in fact he even went to 'get togethers' armed.
A noise of a window opening caused an 'armed' man to expel four bullets through a closed door...........
And we are nit picking over where a magazine rack was placed!
perhaps OP was just innocently shooting out the lock on the cubicle just like in the films ?
The grouping of the shots WAS near the door handle