it suggests that Vm are being sued due to having extra interactive programme guides (im thinking the VOD bit here, or virgin central), and the way virgin tell how the box records from the epg
Gemstar have a patent for allocating programs by id, it might be the case that virgin have done that, it used to the case when I built epgs that we had to use start time/channel to allocate a particular program for recording or reminder.
The earliest of the Gemstar patents has a primary claim for a method of navigating listings of television programmes, displaying some of the titles on screen in a grid guide format and using a cursor to select a title in a single channel format with rows of sequential programme listings.
The primary claim of the second patent includes arranging the indicators for the channel listing in a user determined order.
The third patent covers the selection of a programme listing from an electronic programme guide, enabling it to be recorded and subsequently transferred to a secondary storage device.
Sounds (from Chris123s summary) as if VM might have broken (or maybe bent) the licensing agreement of how the software can be used/changed?
From the DS article, it sounds like Gemstar weren't happy with something, went to VM about it and demanded more money, possibly because of the breach (in their eyes), to which VM wouldn't give them what they wanted, so they threatened to sue, thinking VM would then give in and pay up. However, it looks like VM have called their bluff and are willing to fight it in the courts. It'll probably come to nothing, ending in an out of court settlement, when Gemstar realise they can't rely on a win in court.
cases dont get settled out of court because one side or other think they cannot win its because the party settling out of court know it will cost them less by making a settlement so if vm do settle they will be admitting guilt
cases dont get settled out of court because one side or other think they cannot win its because the party settling out of court know it will cost them less by making a settlement so if vm do settle they will be admitting guilt
Factually - Half cocked
1. Cases can and are often settled out of court irrespecitve of whether they think they can win or not. In fact the prevalence of US style litigation in the UK is likely to make this more and more possible.
2. If a settlement out of court is reached it is unlikely to be made public knowledge which side agreed it and for what reason so your (anti-vm bias) presumption that it will be VM making an admission is at best wrong and at worst .....
I dont know whether VM breached anything in this case along with other cases that are on-going. The only time a decision is made is by a judge or an arbiter.
cases dont get settled out of court because one side or other think they cannot win its because the party settling out of court know it will cost them less by making a settlement so if vm do settle they will be admitting guilt
That's not true, sometimes cases just can't be relied on, by either party, so sometimes they cut their losses and accept to pay out a small amount, rather than risk going to court and having to pay out a LOT.
There are a lot of little companies doing similar ventures in the computer world, claiming patents cover things they were never intended for, some win and some lose, sometimes the big companies being sued can't take the risk and end up coming to an agreement for an amount the small company thinks is a lot, but in reality is nothing compared to how much they'd have to pay out if they lost in court, just incase they did lose.
VM have stolen my idea of errm....errm.....errm.....oh i know.....offering broadband to the general public!
I DEMAND they give me a ton of cash or i will sue them for every penny they are worth!
:eek::eek::eek::D:eek:
If you had patented a technique for delivery of high-speed internet access through an optic cable piped direct to a residence before the cablecos started doing it, you might have a case.
I don't think you quite understand what is happening in this case, though...
If you had patented a technique for delivery of high-speed internet access through an optic cable piped direct to a residence before the cablecos started doing it, you might have a case.
I don't think you quite understand what is happening in this case, though...
I forgot to patent it but that's surely a mere side issue
I forgot to patent it but that's surely a mere side issue
You should tell that to the poor sod who invented the telephone! For various reasons he did not get down to the Patent office and Alexander Graham Bell got there first
That's not true, sometimes cases just can't be relied on, by either party, so sometimes they cut their losses and accept to pay out a small amount, rather than risk going to court and having to pay out a LOT.
There are a lot of little companies doing similar ventures in the computer world, claiming patents cover things they were never intended for, some win and some lose, sometimes the big companies being sued can't take the risk and end up coming to an agreement for an amount the small company thinks is a lot, but in reality is nothing compared to how much they'd have to pay out if they lost in court, just incase they did lose.
That is the point I was trying to make that settling out of court is seldom that the agreived is wrong or right but that both parties would rather just come to an agreement than chance costing the a fortune in court.
people forget VM's barristers will be on £5000 a day EACH plus expenses so if they have a team of 5 working on the case it could actually cost them more to chance a ruling than just paying out
You should tell that to the poor sod who invented the telephone! For various reasons he did not get down to the Patent office and Alexander Graham Bell got there first
thats actually wrong Elisha Gray's did patent the telephone at the same patent office as bell a couple of hours before and it is beleived that bell bribed the patent office clerk to sell him the Elisha Gray papers which where then copied.
there is also a note that Antonio Meucci had already invented the telephone and a huge battle started out between bell and meucci with a rolling court case. the case against bell rolled on year after year until after meucci's death and then it was dropped.
although never conclusivly proved it is now widely accepted that bell just stole and used the patent and he became famous while meucci or Gray didnt
Its a fantastic out come and exposes the Gemstar Patents as worthless. This case was started while Murdoch NDS was the owner of Gemstar. I spoke to Macrovision or Rovi as they are now called a few months ago.
I said that there were a lot of people in the industry that thought the EPG patents were worthless. Software is not meant to be Patentable. However in the USA if you can show an inventive affect using software then in the US you can sometimes get a Patent registered.
However as with all Patents and Law its not worth the paper its written on until High Courts have ruled using a law in the ruling. Does anyone know how much Gemstar/Rovi or NDS have to pay in costs?
Comments
Funny you say that, those were my thoughts exactly
Probably previously used bny Al Capone, Saddam Hussein and OJ Simpson
Gemstar have a patent for allocating programs by id, it might be the case that virgin have done that, it used to the case when I built epgs that we had to use start time/channel to allocate a particular program for recording or reminder.
The earliest of the Gemstar patents has a primary claim for a method of navigating listings of television programmes, displaying some of the titles on screen in a grid guide format and using a cursor to select a title in a single channel format with rows of sequential programme listings.
The primary claim of the second patent includes arranging the indicators for the channel listing in a user determined order.
The third patent covers the selection of a programme listing from an electronic programme guide, enabling it to be recorded and subsequently transferred to a secondary storage device.
cases dont get settled out of court because one side or other think they cannot win its because the party settling out of court know it will cost them less by making a settlement so if vm do settle they will be admitting guilt
Factually - Half cocked
1. Cases can and are often settled out of court irrespecitve of whether they think they can win or not. In fact the prevalence of US style litigation in the UK is likely to make this more and more possible.
2. If a settlement out of court is reached it is unlikely to be made public knowledge which side agreed it and for what reason so your (anti-vm bias) presumption that it will be VM making an admission is at best wrong and at worst .....
I dont know whether VM breached anything in this case along with other cases that are on-going. The only time a decision is made is by a judge or an arbiter.
That's not true, sometimes cases just can't be relied on, by either party, so sometimes they cut their losses and accept to pay out a small amount, rather than risk going to court and having to pay out a LOT.
There are a lot of little companies doing similar ventures in the computer world, claiming patents cover things they were never intended for, some win and some lose, sometimes the big companies being sued can't take the risk and end up coming to an agreement for an amount the small company thinks is a lot, but in reality is nothing compared to how much they'd have to pay out if they lost in court, just incase they did lose.
I DEMAND they give me a ton of cash or i will sue them for every penny they are worth!
:eek::eek::eek::D:eek:
If you had patented a technique for delivery of high-speed internet access through an optic cable piped direct to a residence before the cablecos started doing it, you might have a case.
I don't think you quite understand what is happening in this case, though...
I forgot to patent it but that's surely a mere side issue
You should tell that to the poor sod who invented the telephone! For various reasons he did not get down to the Patent office and Alexander Graham Bell got there first
That is the point I was trying to make that settling out of court is seldom that the agreived is wrong or right but that both parties would rather just come to an agreement than chance costing the a fortune in court.
people forget VM's barristers will be on £5000 a day EACH plus expenses so if they have a team of 5 working on the case it could actually cost them more to chance a ruling than just paying out
thats actually wrong Elisha Gray's did patent the telephone at the same patent office as bell a couple of hours before and it is beleived that bell bribed the patent office clerk to sell him the Elisha Gray papers which where then copied.
there is also a note that Antonio Meucci had already invented the telephone and a huge battle started out between bell and meucci with a rolling court case. the case against bell rolled on year after year until after meucci's death and then it was dropped.
although never conclusivly proved it is now widely accepted that bell just stole and used the patent and he became famous while meucci or Gray didnt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_of_the_telephone#Elisha_Gray
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/news/a188873/virgin-media-wins-gemstar-epg-case.html
Its a fantastic out come and exposes the Gemstar Patents as worthless. This case was started while Murdoch NDS was the owner of Gemstar. I spoke to Macrovision or Rovi as they are now called a few months ago.
I said that there were a lot of people in the industry that thought the EPG patents were worthless. Software is not meant to be Patentable. However in the USA if you can show an inventive affect using software then in the US you can sometimes get a Patent registered.
However as with all Patents and Law its not worth the paper its written on until High Courts have ruled using a law in the ruling. Does anyone know how much Gemstar/Rovi or NDS have to pay in costs?
It's not quite over yet i dont think:p
The fat lady has sung.
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/news/a311664/court-rejects-gemstars-virgin-epg-appeal.html
Great resurrection delder, i forgot i posted that!