Yeah, I mean what does Martin Keown know about defending?!
When you pick a team worth tens of millions of pounds and it gets beat 4-0 off a team worth £250k which was a 500/1 shot and you say you're not shocked I think you might be telling porkies.
A lack of confidence from Moyes tenure is a ridiculous excuse. He was sacked in April. You've got international players worth tens of millions who seem to be playing in a system they aren't very familiar with and getting beaten badly by a league 1 team. The defence is really poor and LvG keeps chasing midfielders.
In some way I would probably agree with that, for the following couple of reasons.
I know you shouldn't judge pre-season games, but Man Utd had a very good pre-season, also they now have one the worlds best managers bringing in a new era...confidence if anything for the start of the season should have been sky high.
You can't win a 38-game competition by being lucky.
Personally think that season you proved that it can be done. Man Utd was consistent, the luck part about it was that the other teams that should have been challenging, didn't.
Not even 2 hours, it's hardly like bumping a thread from 10 years ago. This thread will be revisited after every Man Utd defeat and LvG tactics backfire no doubt.
Not even 2 hours, it's hardly like bumping a thread from 10 years ago. This thread will be revisited after every Man Utd defeat and LvG tactics backfire no doubt.
In that case I would hope it will be the same when the tactics work?
Personally think that season you proved that it can be done. Man Utd was consistent, the luck part about it was that the other teams that should have been challenging, didn't.
Because they weren't good enough.
So no 'luck' involved. The best team won the league, as it always does.
The vast majority of clubs have bad patches and if you are lucky enough to play them in the middle of the bad patch it can make the world of difference.
Personally think that season you proved that it can be done. Man Utd was consistent, the luck part about it was that the other teams that should have been challenging, didn't.
There's no I there. And being consistent isn't luck, it appears 'luck' here is just the closest to a back-handed compliment people can muster.
Show me a team who won the league via luck and I'll show you a shiny unicorn made out of pixie dust.
Man Utd 4 Norwich 0
Man Utd 0 Sunderland 1
Man Utd 3 Hull 1
Southampton 1 Man Utd 1
Man Utd 1 Swansea 2
Sunderland 1 Man Utd 1
MK Dons 4 Man Utd 0
How long are you going to blame Moyes? It's as poor an excuse as blaming injuries when you can afford to sub off Kagawa for Januzaj whilst your opposition play guys not good enough for Brentford.
There is a difference though. Some of those games are last season's. A number of players left. This year's start is not very edifying so far. Utd will do well to qualify for Europe, I think.
Louis van Gaal showed no class at all in ignoring the MK Dons manager after the game. Just like Don Revile did to Brian Clough all those years ago.
Maybe he apologised to him later.
Maybe you should apologise for refering him to as the MK Don's manager instead of by name (which I would guess you do not know). Complete lack of disrespect
Funny thing is I saw a interview with Karl Robinson and when asked "Can you tell us what Louis van Gaal said to you after the match" Karl said it was something between the two of them. But since he was ignored by Mr Van Gaal I guess he said nothing
Louis van Gaal showed no class at all in ignoring the MK Dons manager after the game. Just like Don Revile did to Brian Clough all those years ago.
Maybe he apologised to him later.
did he do that? is it confirmed?
shame if true, karl robinson was on talksport earlier in day saying he was really looking forward to havign a chat with him
i know when cov played arsenal in league and fa cup recently, our manager pressley was elated he had a chance to speak with wenger, said he learnt alot and influenced him as a manager.
Blaming Moyes for the defeats is absurd as crediting him with beating Norwich 4-0 in the game after he was sacked. If you want to blame someone blame the LvG system which is obviously not working considering Swansea, Sunderland and MK Dons have all played better than you. It's more lack of confidence in that system rather than lack of confidence because a manager that was sacked moons ago.
Like I said, you lack a basic understanding of human mentality.
It's an embarrassing excuse to blame Moyes for a defeat 5 months later.
im torn on it, i can see both sides of the argument
did moyes kill cofnidence with drab interviews and poor signings? yes
did he not utilise best players in right positions? yeh maybe
did he curb uts famous attacking mentality? i believe so
the above can kill confidence
on the other side of the coin there used to be a quite vocal poster who used to be adamanent that this was a title winning squad and should be challenging top 4. most utd fans agreed with him
now all of a sudden the squad needs wholesale changes?
im torn on it, i can see both sides of the argument
did moyes kill cofnidence with drab interviews and poor signings? yes
did he not utilise best players in right positions? yeh maybe
did he curb uts famous attacking mentality? i believe so
the above can kill confidence
The main factor was losing games.
I think that this is fairly fundamental. People are quick to point out that the 'fear factor' has gone, since Ferguson left.
The players know that teams no longer fear them, and if you watch them play, you'll see that they're not taking risks, or moving the ball quick enough. They're afraid to take a man on, or maybe make a gamble on a run. It exacerbates itself, and another poor performance means more caution in the next game, and so on. They looked pretty decent in pre-season, because there was no pressure.
It'll take time for Van Gaal to turn that around, in my opinion.
I think that this is fairly fundamental. People are quick to point out that the 'fear factor' has gone, since Ferguson left.
The players know that teams no longer fear them, and if you watch them play, you'll see that they're not taking risks, or moving the ball quick enough. They're afraid to take a man on, or maybe make a gamble on a run. It exacerbates itself, and another poor performance means more caution in the next game, and so on. They looked pretty decent in pre-season, because there was no pressure.
It'll take time for Van Gaal to turn that around, in my opinion.
agreed but this time last year i remember mentioning fear factor seemed to have gone judging from first few games and was pretty much told i was speaking rubbish.
lvg is in a lucky position because fans now a bit more realistic about the issues utd facing currently.
but like i said yesterday, he seems to be getting rid of most of the people i dont personally see as top 4 quality and i doubt hes gonna bring in poor players so signs are utd will only get better now.
I think that this is fairly fundamental. People are quick to point out that the 'fear factor' has gone, since Ferguson left.
The players know that teams no longer fear them, and if you watch them play, you'll see that they're not taking risks, or moving the ball quick enough. They're afraid to take a man on, or maybe make a gamble on a run. It exacerbates itself, and another poor performance means more caution in the next game, and so on. They looked pretty decent in pre-season, because there was no pressure.
It'll take time for Van Gaal to turn that around, in my opinion.
It's interesting because you often see managers come in and have an almost instant impact though.
Use Liverpool after Hodgson had basically killed us. Kenny came in and the performances and results very quickly improved. I think our form over his first half of the season was 2nd only to Utd.
It's possibly an indication of how far the Utd players have fallen. As you say, they were possibly used to a fear factor which Fergie had built around the club. But this is something a lot of teams don't have and they still manage to get results.
I think the damage Moyes did is still a part of it, but I'm not sure how much part of it. I guess only the players could tell you that. There is an article somewhere comparing the starting lineup when you beat Arsenal 8-2 to the one against Sunderland this season (I think...) and there are only 5 changes and most of them improvements (Mata, RVP for example).
I just think a lot is broken at Utd right now and some of it has to be deeper than just Moyes. You have spent about £200m so far since Fergie left, surely with that level of new talent Moyes can't be blamed if they don't perform (I know most of them haven't had chance to really play yet, so I'm thinking of how they need to perform going forwards).
If you take it in isolation, surely this manager and that level of spend should get a top 4 finish? Anything out of this would be a disappointment?
It's interesting because you often see managers come in and have an almost instant impact though.
Use Liverpool after Hodgson had basically killed us. Kenny came in and the performances and results very quickly improved. I think our form over his first half of the season was 2nd only to Utd.
It's possibly an indication of how far the Utd players have fallen. As you say, they were possibly used to a fear factor which Fergie had built around the club. But this is something a lot of teams don't have and they still manage to get results.
I think the damage Moyes did is still a part of it, but I'm not sure how much part of it. I guess only the players could tell you that. There is an article somewhere comparing the starting lineup when you beat Arsenal 8-2 to the one against Sunderland this season (I think...) and there are only 5 changes and most of them improvements (Mata, RVP for example).
I just think a lot is broken at Utd right now and some of it has to be deeper than just Moyes. You have spent about £200m so far since Fergie left, surely with that level of new talent Moyes can't be blamed if they don't perform (I know most of them haven't had chance to really play yet, so I'm thinking of how they need to perform going forwards).
If you take it in isolation, surely this manager and that level of spend should get a top 4 finish? Anything out of this would be a disappointment?
Nobody's said that it was 'just Moyes'. I've already stated that there are other issues.
We've lost 3 of our long-standing back 4, the new signings have barely featured at all, we're trying to implement a new tactical system, I suspect that training methods are different, and whether people want to acknowledge it or not, we have a f***load of injuries.
Besides all of that, we've only played 3 bloody games! Bit early to be writing us off, just yet.
Nobody's said that it was 'just Moyes'. I've already stated that there are other issues.
We've lost 3 of our long-standing back 4, the new signings have barely featured at all, we're trying to implement a new tactical system, I suspect that training methods are different, and whether people want to acknowledge it or not, we have a f***load of injuries.
Besides all of that, we've only played 3 bloody games! Bit early to be writing us off, just yet.
I haven't written you off anywhere! I called you lot for a top 4 finish! It's just that Moyes gets called out as one of the reasons for the issues and yet in other clubs the change in manager often returns fairly instant returns. Tis all.
Was just wondering what what be thought of as the right return given all the changes etc..
I haven't written you off anywhere! I called you lot for a top 4 finish! It's just that Moyes gets called out as one of the reasons for the issues and yet in other clubs the change in manager often returns fairly instant returns. Tis all.
Was just wondering what what be thought of as the right return given all the changes etc..
Sorry, I didn't mean that I thought that you were writing us off.
Gauging where we 'should' finish will be much easier when the injuries dry up a bit, and when the transfer window closes, in my opinion.
Sorry, I didn't mean that I thought that you were writing us off.
Gauging where we 'should' finish will be much easier when the injuries dry up a bit, and when the transfer window closes, in my opinion.
Yeh true. I just look at the quality of first XI you could end up with this season. If it clicks you should do well. Then it's just down to how well LVG adapts to life in the Premier League.
Nobody's said that it was 'just Moyes'. I've already stated that there are other issues.
We've lost 3 of our long-standing back 4, the new signings have barely featured at all, we're trying to implement a new tactical system, I suspect that training methods are different, and whether people want to acknowledge it or not, we have a f***load of injuries.
Besides all of that, we've only played 3 bloody games! Bit early to be writing us off, just yet.
All of the above, especially the bits in bold, which many in this thread all too easily ignore. Key defenders leave + 10 injured squad players out + new philosophy = temporary hiatus in form. Simple as.
Comments
In some way I would probably agree with that, for the following couple of reasons.
I know you shouldn't judge pre-season games, but Man Utd had a very good pre-season, also they now have one the worlds best managers bringing in a new era...confidence if anything for the start of the season should have been sky high.
Personally think that season you proved that it can be done. Man Utd was consistent, the luck part about it was that the other teams that should have been challenging, didn't.
By you no doubt.
In that case I would hope it will be the same when the tactics work?
Because they weren't good enough.
So no 'luck' involved. The best team won the league, as it always does.
Something that doesn't happen over 38 games
There's no I there. And being consistent isn't luck, it appears 'luck' here is just the closest to a back-handed compliment people can muster.
Show me a team who won the league via luck and I'll show you a shiny unicorn made out of pixie dust.
I don't believe you so I wont bother.
Maybe he apologised to him later.
There is a difference though. Some of those games are last season's. A number of players left. This year's start is not very edifying so far. Utd will do well to qualify for Europe, I think.
Maybe you should apologise for refering him to as the MK Don's manager instead of by name (which I would guess you do not know). Complete lack of disrespect
Funny thing is I saw a interview with Karl Robinson and when asked "Can you tell us what Louis van Gaal said to you after the match" Karl said it was something between the two of them. But since he was ignored by Mr Van Gaal I guess he said nothing
did he do that? is it confirmed?
shame if true, karl robinson was on talksport earlier in day saying he was really looking forward to havign a chat with him
i know when cov played arsenal in league and fa cup recently, our manager pressley was elated he had a chance to speak with wenger, said he learnt alot and influenced him as a manager.
Like I said, you lack a basic understanding of human mentality.
It's an embarrassing excuse to blame Moyes for a defeat 5 months later.
I have yet to see anyone do that.
I have seen people say it was one factor (of many) but have yet to see anyone on here blame it 100% on Moyes
im torn on it, i can see both sides of the argument
did moyes kill cofnidence with drab interviews and poor signings? yes
did he not utilise best players in right positions? yeh maybe
did he curb uts famous attacking mentality? i believe so
the above can kill confidence
on the other side of the coin there used to be a quite vocal poster who used to be adamanent that this was a title winning squad and should be challenging top 4. most utd fans agreed with him
now all of a sudden the squad needs wholesale changes?
so in that respect i feel sorry for moyes.
The main factor was losing games.
I think that this is fairly fundamental. People are quick to point out that the 'fear factor' has gone, since Ferguson left.
The players know that teams no longer fear them, and if you watch them play, you'll see that they're not taking risks, or moving the ball quick enough. They're afraid to take a man on, or maybe make a gamble on a run. It exacerbates itself, and another poor performance means more caution in the next game, and so on. They looked pretty decent in pre-season, because there was no pressure.
It'll take time for Van Gaal to turn that around, in my opinion.
agreed but this time last year i remember mentioning fear factor seemed to have gone judging from first few games and was pretty much told i was speaking rubbish.
lvg is in a lucky position because fans now a bit more realistic about the issues utd facing currently.
but like i said yesterday, he seems to be getting rid of most of the people i dont personally see as top 4 quality and i doubt hes gonna bring in poor players so signs are utd will only get better now.
It's interesting because you often see managers come in and have an almost instant impact though.
Use Liverpool after Hodgson had basically killed us. Kenny came in and the performances and results very quickly improved. I think our form over his first half of the season was 2nd only to Utd.
It's possibly an indication of how far the Utd players have fallen. As you say, they were possibly used to a fear factor which Fergie had built around the club. But this is something a lot of teams don't have and they still manage to get results.
I think the damage Moyes did is still a part of it, but I'm not sure how much part of it. I guess only the players could tell you that. There is an article somewhere comparing the starting lineup when you beat Arsenal 8-2 to the one against Sunderland this season (I think...) and there are only 5 changes and most of them improvements (Mata, RVP for example).
I just think a lot is broken at Utd right now and some of it has to be deeper than just Moyes. You have spent about £200m so far since Fergie left, surely with that level of new talent Moyes can't be blamed if they don't perform (I know most of them haven't had chance to really play yet, so I'm thinking of how they need to perform going forwards).
If you take it in isolation, surely this manager and that level of spend should get a top 4 finish? Anything out of this would be a disappointment?
Nobody's said that it was 'just Moyes'. I've already stated that there are other issues.
We've lost 3 of our long-standing back 4, the new signings have barely featured at all, we're trying to implement a new tactical system, I suspect that training methods are different, and whether people want to acknowledge it or not, we have a f***load of injuries.
Besides all of that, we've only played 3 bloody games! Bit early to be writing us off, just yet.
I haven't written you off anywhere! I called you lot for a top 4 finish! It's just that Moyes gets called out as one of the reasons for the issues and yet in other clubs the change in manager often returns fairly instant returns. Tis all.
Was just wondering what what be thought of as the right return given all the changes etc..
Sorry, I didn't mean that I thought that you were writing us off.
Gauging where we 'should' finish will be much easier when the injuries dry up a bit, and when the transfer window closes, in my opinion.
Yeh true. I just look at the quality of first XI you could end up with this season. If it clicks you should do well. Then it's just down to how well LVG adapts to life in the Premier League.
Five months of consistently playing, under the new manager, and without all the media drama? No, thought not.
It's not an "excuse". It's a factor.
All of the above, especially the bits in bold, which many in this thread all too easily ignore. Key defenders leave + 10 injured squad players out + new philosophy = temporary hiatus in form. Simple as.