I sincerely hope so. Despite all the commentators saying. This has been wonderful opening up discussion all over Scotland etc, I think it has been divisive and bitter and ramped up mainly from the Yes campaigners whipping up bad feeling where they would have been better served discussing the merits of independence rather than telling half the country they are pro English, not team Scotland players etc. o
I cannot wait for it to be over as I'm fair scunnered with it.
It has been pretty aggravating. I am constantly baffled by what I see on facebook - normally I am a keen facebook person - where every opinion is belligerently pro-yes, and generally paranoid and duplicitous. I am sure, as with the pestiferous Britain First posts, that a lot of them are people of goodwill forwarding what they believe to be true, but I could not count the number of times in the last couple of weeks I have seen that rant about 'no country has ever voted against independence...Scotland will be seen as cowards in the eyes of the world...blah' (sometimes I have answered politely with a list of times countries have voted against independence, and sometimes I just haven't got the strength); and that rant about how the government has ordered the BBC not to cover the Save the NHS march in case it pushes Scottish people towards a yes vote (sometimes I have linked to BBC reports on the Save the NHS march, and pointed out the the BBC does not have its news coverage dictated by the government, and sometimes I haven't got the strength).
I put out an appeal for someone to redress the balance a bit, but it would seem that no one knows anyone who is voting no, or that Better Together people have not managed to accumulate a pool of paranoid nonsense to forward in return. In the meantime, let's all look for pictures of Cameron looking dickish. That is surely all a political campaign needs.
An open message to social media enthusiasts from Scotland: please google a story to see if there is a scintilla of truth in it before forwarding it on facebook. The same applies to all of us of course. But it is the referendum that is so annoying just at the moment.
It has been pretty aggravating. I am constantly baffled by what I see on facebook - normally I am a keen facebook person - where every opinion is belligerently pro-yes, and generally paranoid and duplicitous. I am sure, as with the pestiferous Britain First posts, that a lot of them are people of goodwill forwarding what they believe to be true, but I could not count the number of times in the last couple of weeks I have seen that rant about 'no country has ever voted against independence...Scotland will be seen as cowards in the eyes of the world...blah' (sometimes I have answered politely with a list of times countries have voted against independence, and sometimes I just haven't got the strength); and that rant about how the government has ordered the BBC not to cover the Save the NHS march in case it pushes Scottish people towards a yes vote (sometimes I have linked to BBC reports on the Save the NHS march, and pointed out the the BBC does not have its news coverage dictated by the government, and sometimes I haven't got the strength).
I put out an appeal for someone to redress the balance a bit, but it would seem that no one knows anyone who is voting no, or that Better Together people have not managed to accumulate a pool of paranoid nonsense to forward in return. In the meantime, let's all look for pictures of Cameron looking dickish. That is surely all a political campaign needs.
An open message to social media enthusiasts from Scotland: please google a story to see if there is a scintilla of truth in it before forwarding it on facebook. The same applies to all of us of course. But it is the referendum that is so annoying just at the moment.
Amen.
My Facebook is flooded with crap about blatant bias by the BBC in favour of Westminster at the moment. The self same BBC that is also a hot bed of Bolshevism and bias against Westminster apparently.
These people are supposedly intelligent. It's embarrassing how they let themselves be used.
It has been pretty aggravating. I am constantly baffled by what I see on facebook - normally I am a keen facebook person - where every opinion is belligerently pro-yes, and generally paranoid and duplicitous. I am sure, as with the pestiferous Britain First posts, that a lot of them are people of goodwill forwarding what they believe to be true, but I could not count the number of times in the last couple of weeks I have seen that rant about 'no country has ever voted against independence...Scotland will be seen as cowards in the eyes of the world...blah' (sometimes I have answered politely with a list of times countries have voted against independence, and sometimes I just haven't got the strength); and that rant about how the government has ordered the BBC not to cover the Save the NHS march in case it pushes Scottish people towards a yes vote (sometimes I have linked to BBC reports on the Save the NHS march, and pointed out the the BBC does not have its news coverage dictated by the government, and sometimes I haven't got the strength).
I put out an appeal for someone to redress the balance a bit, but it would seem that no one knows anyone who is voting no, or that Better Together people have not managed to accumulate a pool of paranoid nonsense to forward in return. In the meantime, let's all look for pictures of Cameron looking dickish. That is surely all a political campaign needs.
An open message to social media enthusiasts from Scotland: please google a story to see if there is a scintilla of truth in it before forwarding it on facebook. The same applies to all of us of course. But it is the referendum that is so annoying just at the moment.
of course the main problem with all of it that neither side have a clue nor can they predict with any certainty what an independent Scotland will look like or feel like, we have so many unanswered questions but are being asked to make this mighty leap I to the unknown. All based on guesstimating on one side and trashing on the other. Add in an element of anti English sentiment and some Rule Bitannia sentiment competing for top aggravation spot. Perfidious politicians on both sides jumping into bed with very strange bed fellows, and we have been neatly fooled by everyone I to believing the choice is ours. We may have choice, I would say it's the least informed but most important choice Scotland has ever made.
of course the main problem with all of it that neither side have a clue nor can they predict with any certainty what an independent Scotland will look like or feel like, we have so many unanswered questions but are being asked to make this mighty leap I to the unknown. All based on guesstimating on one side and trashing on the other. Add in an element of anti English sentiment and some Rule Bitannia sentiment competing for top aggravation spot. Perfidious politicians on both sides jumping into bed with very strange bed fellows, and we have been neatly fooled by everyone I to believing the choice is ours. We may have choice, I would say it's the least informed but most important choice Scotland has ever made.
Most people leave home when they are ready to fend for themselves. Often you're worse off to start with (without the access to the bank of mom and dad). You do it to stand on your own, and the lucky ones will end up better off in the long run than their parents were.
I don't see this as some acrimonious divorce, more Scotland doesn't need us any more and as long as they don't expect to continue using our washing machine after they've gone I wish them the best of luck and we'll meet up during the holidays
Most kids who have access to the bank of mom and dad don't pay anything into it though, I don't know of any kids who pay more into the bank of mom and dad and get less out so your analogy is irrelevant.
Can I ask you an honest question, although you don't have to answer
How has independence in Norway worked for you?
I would say very well. We've taken full advantage of our natural resources, we've made sure the public gets the benefits and not just certain individuals and private companies. Corruption has been fairly low. In some ways we've gone by the UK model, but also taken it further, or not taken it back as much as it has been lately. Education is still essentially free at all levels.
Norway did reasonably well through the recent financial crisis, and I think we'd have been worse off if our policies were tied up somewhere else to a greater degree.
My main complaint would be that the roads are not well maintained in many regions, and Sweden seems to be doing better there, although the real difference might be in population distribution and topography.
of course the main problem with all of it that neither side have a clue nor can they predict with any certainty what an independent Scotland will look like or feel like, we have so many unanswered questions but are being asked to make this mighty leap I to the unknown. All based on guesstimating on one side and trashing on the other. Add in an element of anti English sentiment and some Rule Bitannia sentiment competing for top aggravation spot. Perfidious politicians on both sides jumping into bed with very strange bed fellows, and we have been neatly fooled by everyone I to believing the choice is ours. We may have choice, I would say it's the least informed but most important choice Scotland has ever made.
Yes, true. It has been a nasty period all round. I guess civil wars are always extra dirty. And it is a very dismaying time for English labour voters, waiting to have our future chances trashed, and nothing we can do about it. I just wish the debate was generally conducted in more realistic terms. No one can ever bear to say, "We can't really say what will happen", though that is often very clearly true.
Yes, true. It has been a nasty period all round. I guess civil wars are always extra dirty. And it is a very dismaying time for English labour voters, waiting to have our future chances trashed, and nothing we can do about it. I just wish the debate was generally conducted in more realistic terms. No one can ever bear to say, "We can't really say what will happen", though that is often very clearly true.
Getting rid of Cameron and his abhorrent party should be of huge concern for all of British society if we have and real concern for either our singular or collective worth . I believe passionately in our collective worth. I'm depressed by the meme strident nationalist voices. That in no way diminishes me as Scottish to my core.
Could not have said it better myself. This is no an anti English campaign...
TV channel movies4men look like they're trying to turn it into one if their scheduling from 17.10 on the 18th is anything to go by.
'The Bruce'
'Robert the Bruce leads a Scottish rebellion against the hated English, with just one aspiration in mind - to become King of the Scots ! Stars Brain Blessed and Oliver Reed [1996] '
'Culloden 1746'
'The Jacobite Rebellion in Scotland, and thirty years after their first battle, Bonnie Prince Charlie and his army make a stand on Culloden Moor against the English red - coats. Stars Brian Blessed [1994]'
What percentage of Scots are Gaels ? Scotland is made up of a conglomerate of multi cultures and all the richer for it.
The people with Mc surnames for a start
They are mostly descended from Gaelic speaking clans.
They also have Pictish and Viking descent as they mixed with the Gaels.
The people with Mc surnames for a start
They are mostly descended from Gaelic speaking clans.
They also have Pictish and Viking descent as they mixed with the Gaels.
My grandfather was a Mackinnon from Skye. He married a Dyer from Glasgow. My granny from Dundee was Judge from Ireland and married a Whyte originally from England. My other grandfather was a Crawford who married a McBride. We are deeply multicultural as a nation. My son works in London , my grandchildren are English. All this Celtic bull is just that ...bull.
The people with Mc surnames for a start
They are mostly descended from Gaelic speaking clans.
They also have Pictish and Viking descent as they mixed with the Gaels.
All I hear about is how Scotland will be better off, they will have their oil resources to spend on themselves.
OK, lets go with that.
What if it's the rest of the UK is facing bankruptcy because now there are no oil revenues?
And because the cost of this nationalistic experiment takes too much money out of the economy?
There will be a country of 60 million people on your doorstep living in a bankrupt country and you have no border controls to stop them moving to Scotland.
It's not the big businesses moving out of Scotland that is the only scenario either.
They may up sticks and leave the UK altogether as they may decide that the UK is no longer stable enough.
I can't believe the narrow minded crowing that is going on about how this vote is only about Scotland.
It isn't at all.
You are gambling with the future of 60 million of your current countrymen/women as well.
There should never have been the scenario where the possible future of 65million people was put into the hands of only 5 million.
And allowing 16yo to vote?
F*cking childish, childish politics from childish politicians.
All I hear about is how Scotland will be better off, they will have their oil resources to spend on themselves.
OK, lets go with that.
What if it's the rest of the UK is facing bankruptcy because now there are no oil revenues?
And because the cost of this nationalistic experiment takes too much money out of the economy?
There will be a country of 60 million people on your doorstep living in a bankrupt country and you have no border controls to stop them moving to Scotland.
It's not the big businesses moving out of Scotland that is the only scenario either.
They may up sticks and leave the UK altogether as they may decide that the UK is no longer stable enough.
I can't believe the narrow minded crowing that is going on about how this vote is only about Scotland.
It isn't at all.
You are gambling with the future of 60 million of your current countrymen/women as well.
There should never have been the scenario where the possible future of 65million people was put into the hands of only 5 million.
And allowing 16yo to vote?
F*cking childish, childish politics from childish politicians.
All I hear about is how Scotland will be better off, they will have their oil resources to spend on themselves.
OK, lets go with that.
What if it's the rest of the UK is facing bankruptcy because now there are no oil revenues?
And because the cost of this nationalistic experiment takes too much money out of the economy?
There will be a country of 60 million people on your doorstep living in a bankrupt country and you have no border controls to stop them moving to Scotland.
It's not the big businesses moving out of Scotland that is the only scenario either.
They may up sticks and leave the UK altogether as they may decide that the UK is no longer stable enough.
I can't believe the narrow minded crowing that is going on about how this vote is only about Scotland.
It isn't at all.
You are gambling with the future of 60 million of your current countrymen/women as well.
There should never have been the scenario where the possible future of 65million people was put into the hands of only 5 million.
And allowing 16yo to vote?
F*cking childish, childish politics from childish politicians.
I asked here MONTHS ago that a referendum sub forum be created and stickied at the top of every section of this forum, but no one was interested, i got a few replies here and there saying, "no one in England is interested", my response was people would be coming out the woodwork when they realised just what the implications were going to be on them and the future of their country, when they got their heads out the sand and actually took interest, then maybe we could have a proper, informed debate rather than a few bitter people coming on now and then and being condescending and confrontational to all scots, doing that is forcing more to vote yes.
I think now, a little too late, the people who were previously uninterested, have realised how important this is, and are now panicking at how this will affect them and their future, just look at the desperate politicians, uninterested in scotland for years, now flying up there in a panic trying too little, too late to change peoples mind.
I really wouldn't say its out of the realms of possibility that in 20 years time, reports will be leaked that show the government put pressure of big business to issue statements dissuading folk from voting yes.
My point is, this is last minute panicking, when if they and the rest of the population in the UK had taken an interest in this earlier, and perhaps not taken such a negative stance on it all, things wouldnt have been as close to the wire as it is.
People in the rest of the UK really weren't that bothered about Scottish referendum, most seemed to think, "let them do what they want, but dont come crawling back when it all fails without England", now they are realising what impact this has they suddenly take an interest, but as i say, too late.
I asked here MONTHS ago that a referendum sub forum be created and stickied at the top of every section of this forum, but no one was interested, i got a few replies here and there saying, "no one in England is interested", my response was people would be coming out the woodwork when they realised just what the implications were going to be on them and the future of their country, when they got their heads out the sand and actually took interest, then maybe we could have a proper, informed debate rather than a few bitter people coming on now and then and being condescending and confrontational to all scots, doing that is forcing more to vote yes.
I think now, a little too late, the people who were previously uninterested, have realised how important this is, and are now panicking at how this will affect them and their future, just look at the desperate politicians, uninterested in scotland for years, now flying up there in a panic trying too little, too late to change peoples mind.
I really wouldn't say its out of the realms of possibility that in 20 years time, reports will be leaked that show the government put pressure of big business to issue statements dissuading folk from voting yes.
My point is, this is last minute panicking, when if they and the rest of the population in the UK had taken an interest in this earlier, and perhaps not taken such a negative stance on it all, things wouldnt have been as close to the wire as it is.
People in the rest of the UK really weren't that bothered about Scottish referendum, most seemed to think, "let them do what they want, but dont come crawling back when it all fails without England", now they are realising what impact this has they suddenly take an interest, but as i say, too late.
I'm not going to disagree with you.
But, the facts still stand.
Are you going to say "oh you weren't interested enough so that gives a tiny percentage of people the right to possibly ruin the lives of millions"?
Also, perhaps it's that the vast majority of people had far more pressing things to worry about.
We are just about crawling out of an economic disaster, the Islamic world is going to hell in a handcart and killing thousands on the way, Russia has decided to revert to being the danger it was previously to Europe ect.
These are troubled times.
A referendum being held in a country that is not oppressed, people are not starving, there is a large degree of self rule and a standard of living that places it higher on the world stage than most, seems almost like an indulgence.
All I hear about is how Scotland will be better off, they will have their oil resources to spend on themselves.
OK, lets go with that.
What if it's the rest of the UK is facing bankruptcy because now there are no oil revenues?
And because the cost of this nationalistic experiment takes too much money out of the economy?
There will be a country of 60 million people on your doorstep living in a bankrupt country and you have no border controls to stop them moving to Scotland.
It's not the big businesses moving out of Scotland that is the only scenario either.
They may up sticks and leave the UK altogether as they may decide that the UK is no longer stable enough.
I can't believe the narrow minded crowing that is going on about how this vote is only about Scotland.
It isn't at all.
You are gambling with the future of 60 million of your current countrymen/women as well.
There should never have been the scenario where the possible future of 65million people was put into the hands of only 5 million.
And allowing 16yo to vote?
F*cking childish, childish politics from childish politicians.
I agree. Even if you accept that Scotland is going to be very significantly better off - highly debatable - you then are faced with the fact you voted Yes to keep cash and take it out of the UK wide economy which frankly just makes you a selfish prick tbh.
Comments
Nah, he is far too bust putting up a large vote no sign in the window, and trying to antagonise the yes voters across the street
I've bought a Saltire to burn in the park later
It has been pretty aggravating. I am constantly baffled by what I see on facebook - normally I am a keen facebook person - where every opinion is belligerently pro-yes, and generally paranoid and duplicitous. I am sure, as with the pestiferous Britain First posts, that a lot of them are people of goodwill forwarding what they believe to be true, but I could not count the number of times in the last couple of weeks I have seen that rant about 'no country has ever voted against independence...Scotland will be seen as cowards in the eyes of the world...blah' (sometimes I have answered politely with a list of times countries have voted against independence, and sometimes I just haven't got the strength); and that rant about how the government has ordered the BBC not to cover the Save the NHS march in case it pushes Scottish people towards a yes vote (sometimes I have linked to BBC reports on the Save the NHS march, and pointed out the the BBC does not have its news coverage dictated by the government, and sometimes I haven't got the strength).
I put out an appeal for someone to redress the balance a bit, but it would seem that no one knows anyone who is voting no, or that Better Together people have not managed to accumulate a pool of paranoid nonsense to forward in return. In the meantime, let's all look for pictures of Cameron looking dickish. That is surely all a political campaign needs.
An open message to social media enthusiasts from Scotland: please google a story to see if there is a scintilla of truth in it before forwarding it on facebook. The same applies to all of us of course. But it is the referendum that is so annoying just at the moment.
Amen.
My Facebook is flooded with crap about blatant bias by the BBC in favour of Westminster at the moment. The self same BBC that is also a hot bed of Bolshevism and bias against Westminster apparently.
These people are supposedly intelligent. It's embarrassing how they let themselves be used.
That made me laugh! I can picture the scene.:D
of course the main problem with all of it that neither side have a clue nor can they predict with any certainty what an independent Scotland will look like or feel like, we have so many unanswered questions but are being asked to make this mighty leap I to the unknown. All based on guesstimating on one side and trashing on the other. Add in an element of anti English sentiment and some Rule Bitannia sentiment competing for top aggravation spot. Perfidious politicians on both sides jumping into bed with very strange bed fellows, and we have been neatly fooled by everyone I to believing the choice is ours. We may have choice, I would say it's the least informed but most important choice Scotland has ever made.
That's the bit which scares me.
I am waiting for him to turn into a rabid yes voter just to antagonise me
I'm quite sure I don't know what you mean. It's entirely out of character
Most kids who have access to the bank of mom and dad don't pay anything into it though, I don't know of any kids who pay more into the bank of mom and dad and get less out so your analogy is irrelevant.
I would say very well. We've taken full advantage of our natural resources, we've made sure the public gets the benefits and not just certain individuals and private companies. Corruption has been fairly low. In some ways we've gone by the UK model, but also taken it further, or not taken it back as much as it has been lately. Education is still essentially free at all levels.
Norway did reasonably well through the recent financial crisis, and I think we'd have been worse off if our policies were tied up somewhere else to a greater degree.
My main complaint would be that the roads are not well maintained in many regions, and Sweden seems to be doing better there, although the real difference might be in population distribution and topography.
Yes, true. It has been a nasty period all round. I guess civil wars are always extra dirty. And it is a very dismaying time for English labour voters, waiting to have our future chances trashed, and nothing we can do about it. I just wish the debate was generally conducted in more realistic terms. No one can ever bear to say, "We can't really say what will happen", though that is often very clearly true.
Getting rid of Cameron and his abhorrent party should be of huge concern for all of British society if we have and real concern for either our singular or collective worth . I believe passionately in our collective worth. I'm depressed by the meme strident nationalist voices. That in no way diminishes me as Scottish to my core.
TV channel movies4men look like they're trying to turn it into one if their scheduling from 17.10 on the 18th is anything to go by.
'The Bruce'
'Robert the Bruce leads a Scottish rebellion against the hated English, with just one aspiration in mind - to become King of the Scots ! Stars Brain Blessed and Oliver Reed [1996] '
'Culloden 1746'
'The Jacobite Rebellion in Scotland, and thirty years after their first battle, Bonnie Prince Charlie and his army make a stand on Culloden Moor against the English red - coats. Stars Brian Blessed [1994]'
Bad timing or deliberate?
http://www.movies4men.co.uk/schedule/m4m
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaels
What percentage of Scots are Gaels ? Scotland is made up of a conglomerate of multi cultures and all the richer for it.
The people with Mc surnames for a start
They are mostly descended from Gaelic speaking clans.
They also have Pictish and Viking descent as they mixed with the Gaels.
My grandfather was a Mackinnon from Skye. He married a Dyer from Glasgow. My granny from Dundee was Judge from Ireland and married a Whyte originally from England. My other grandfather was a Crawford who married a McBride. We are deeply multicultural as a nation. My son works in London , my grandchildren are English. All this Celtic bull is just that ...bull.
Oh and by the way it's Mac. Not Mc.
OK, lets go with that.
What if it's the rest of the UK is facing bankruptcy because now there are no oil revenues?
And because the cost of this nationalistic experiment takes too much money out of the economy?
There will be a country of 60 million people on your doorstep living in a bankrupt country and you have no border controls to stop them moving to Scotland.
It's not the big businesses moving out of Scotland that is the only scenario either.
They may up sticks and leave the UK altogether as they may decide that the UK is no longer stable enough.
I can't believe the narrow minded crowing that is going on about how this vote is only about Scotland.
It isn't at all.
You are gambling with the future of 60 million of your current countrymen/women as well.
There should never have been the scenario where the possible future of 65million people was put into the hands of only 5 million.
And allowing 16yo to vote?
F*cking childish, childish politics from childish politicians.
I agree. It's completely selfish.
I asked here MONTHS ago that a referendum sub forum be created and stickied at the top of every section of this forum, but no one was interested, i got a few replies here and there saying, "no one in England is interested", my response was people would be coming out the woodwork when they realised just what the implications were going to be on them and the future of their country, when they got their heads out the sand and actually took interest, then maybe we could have a proper, informed debate rather than a few bitter people coming on now and then and being condescending and confrontational to all scots, doing that is forcing more to vote yes.
I think now, a little too late, the people who were previously uninterested, have realised how important this is, and are now panicking at how this will affect them and their future, just look at the desperate politicians, uninterested in scotland for years, now flying up there in a panic trying too little, too late to change peoples mind.
I really wouldn't say its out of the realms of possibility that in 20 years time, reports will be leaked that show the government put pressure of big business to issue statements dissuading folk from voting yes.
My point is, this is last minute panicking, when if they and the rest of the population in the UK had taken an interest in this earlier, and perhaps not taken such a negative stance on it all, things wouldnt have been as close to the wire as it is.
People in the rest of the UK really weren't that bothered about Scottish referendum, most seemed to think, "let them do what they want, but dont come crawling back when it all fails without England", now they are realising what impact this has they suddenly take an interest, but as i say, too late.
I'm not going to disagree with you.
But, the facts still stand.
Are you going to say "oh you weren't interested enough so that gives a tiny percentage of people the right to possibly ruin the lives of millions"?
Also, perhaps it's that the vast majority of people had far more pressing things to worry about.
We are just about crawling out of an economic disaster, the Islamic world is going to hell in a handcart and killing thousands on the way, Russia has decided to revert to being the danger it was previously to Europe ect.
These are troubled times.
A referendum being held in a country that is not oppressed, people are not starving, there is a large degree of self rule and a standard of living that places it higher on the world stage than most, seems almost like an indulgence.
I agree. Even if you accept that Scotland is going to be very significantly better off - highly debatable - you then are faced with the fact you voted Yes to keep cash and take it out of the UK wide economy which frankly just makes you a selfish prick tbh.
By "you" I don't mean you, of course.