Not really as he could of been planning this awhile and this was the first time he got the opportunity to pull this off .
Yes but the way the post I quoted worded it reads that he went in with the intention of it on this specific flight but there's no way he'd have known that the pilot was going to leave the cockpit.
I just can't imagine the horrible fear. Those school kids who didn't have their parents with them really plays on my mind.
I can only imagine how I would feel if i saw a pilot trying to break down the cockpit door with an axe. Must have been horrendous.
I don't really care for the reasons why he did it, or what measures they put in place to try and stop it happening again, i just can't stop thinking about those passengers.
It was a horrible, awful, horrendous act that could've happened no matter what rules and regulations are in place.
I'm also not liking how much coverage he's getting - it's about time they start focussing on the victims, telling us about them. Especially the hero captain who tried to stop him.
I feel exactly the same way. I want his name buried and never uttered again, I want the focus to be on that brave captain and those poor passengers. I have children and the thought of them being in that predicament makes me tearful to just imagine it.
I feel exactly the same way. I want his name buried and never uttered again, I want the focus to be on that brave captain and those poor passengers. I have children and the thought of them being in that predicament makes me tearful to just imagine it.
I think that is the most awful part for the victims families .My own grown children fly a lot and the thought of them terrified and helpless is simply unbearable
At the point of the flight he was over an area he was familiar with and apparently liked?
An awful lot of confirmation bias here.
Coincidental as that pilot choose to leave his seat at that moment in time . He did not know if the pilot was going to need to go to the toilet did he ?
I really don't believe he planned it, I think he found himself in charge of the plane over the area he loved to glide over, his issue with his eye condition came into his mind and he knew he would be banned from flying because of it and decided he wanted to end it there and then where he was happiest.
I agree-partially. Let's not forget, if the main pilot had not needed to go to the toilet or wanted to go at a different time this event may not have happened. Lubitz may have chickened out or the captain may have succeeded in getting the cockpit door opened.
I think this was opportunistic (although Lubitz had encouraged his colleague to go to the loo- so to that extent it was per-meditated). I think that a mental breakdown, combined with anger at his gf & anger/concern over his job made him make that fateful decision. I don't think for a minute he per-planned this for any prolonged time. The comment his ex gf made about him doing something unforgettable I can take with a pinch of salt-plenty of people say stuff like this, it's probably just some showy off thing he said with no real meaning years ago.
As for the passengers- its not like they wouldn't have realised they were descending several minutes before, theres clouds to descend through and also the fact that they were flying lower than they should have been at that time in the flight.
Given the reports of screaming a few minutes before its now clear that many, if not all the passengers knew the plane was in danger for some time before the crash.
It's horrific to contemplate that they all knew they were gonna die but utterly helpless. They literally had no method of escape.
This is why people are so frightened of flying-literally NO CONTROL!!
A car accident may be more likely, but with a car you can steer the car, or attempt to move your body away from impact, or jump out of the car.
With a plane you are eessentially locked inside, completely at the mercy of the planes structural & technological soundness & the pilots wishes.
You can't just "get out" like youre In a car or boat.
I think that is the most awful part for the victims families .My own grown children fly a lot and the thought of them terrified and helpless is simply unbearable
My 14 year old daughter took off from Faro at the exact same time on that morning and I can tell you for 5 hellish minutes I thought it was her plane that had come down . Thank god it was reported that that flight was heading to Dusseldorf. My heart goes out to all the victims and their families . How you recover from this I just cannot imagine.
I would say that the parents of those 24 other children who'd wanted to go on that trip but didn't get held pretty tightly to them for the last few days.
Yes but the way the post I quoted worded it reads that he went in with the intention of it on this specific flight but there's no way he'd have known that the pilot was going to leave the cockpit.
As discussed earlier they had literally just reached cruising height when the plane would pretty much fly itself for the next hour or so. This is going to be the point in any flight where pilots will leave their seat and stretch their legs after the past hour or so of setting up the flight, taxiing, taking off and climbing up. Taking advantage of the break before they will need to be focused and in the cockpit preparing for landing.
Landings and take offs are the points where the most things can go wrong so the period that requires much more concentration from the crew.
He will have flown this route before and so very likely would have a good idea what would happen.
As for being over the area and he just taking a chance he crashed the plane into the favourite valley that Glider pilots from the school he attended used to fly over.
For me that sounds more than just being over the Alps and taking the opportunity. To programme a plane to fly into that very spot from several miles up in a modest descent pattern requires some degree of planning. He had to aim the plane.
It could have just been pure opportunism but I think a degree of planning seems likely as on other flights the right circumstances might not occur at the appropriate moment for him to crash the plane where he wanted to do without putting it into a reckless dive that might have caused it to crash earlier.
My 14 year old daughter took off from Faro at the exact same time on that morning and I can tell you for 5 hellish minutes I thought it was her plane that had come down . Thank god it was reported that that flight was heading to Dusseldorf. My heart goes out to all the victims and their families . How you recover from this I just cannot imagine.
Oh benji , what an awful 5 minutes that was for you
Oh benji , what an awful 5 minutes that was for you
It was, but nice posters on here were very reassuring:) and had more info than was forthcoming on the news. she had an onward flight to Inverness from London and I could not relax until I saw her.
She too was on a school trip so I felt great empathy with those parents in particular who lost children on that school trip .
It's unbearable to think of all those passengers last minutes.
Report that his girlfriend is pregnant with his child.
Also that his father is utterly broken , what a deeply personal tragedy for his own family . They cannot ever recover from this.
Agreed. Regardless of all this speculation we are engaging in it is good to be brought to remember this is not an episode of Aircraft Investigations (though it will be soon no doubt) but a terrible tragedy for everyone involved. And that includes the co pilot's family as they clearly never saw this coming either. You can only feel for them as much as for the families of the passengers and other crew.
Even the co pilot was a victim of this in many ways because whatever he did or did not do and for whatever reason he will not have chosen to feel the way that he seemingly did.
I feel exactly the same way. I want his name buried and never uttered again, I want the focus to be on that brave captain and those poor passengers. I have children and the thought of them being in that predicament makes me tearful to just imagine it.
i completely agree with you. i said as much a couple of days ago as it began to look like a monumental act of narcissism, that i didn't want to be part of fulfilling his wish to be talked about, and i've come back today only because the transcrips of the black box now seem to confirm his despicable behaviour.
Coincidental as that pilot choose to leave his seat at that moment in time . He did not know if the pilot was going to need to go to the toilet did he ?
if the descriptions of the transcripts are correct he suggested several times to the pilot that he could go to the toilet 'anytime', and even went so far as to comment that the pilot 'hadn't been' before takeoff, and then more or less says 'you can go now'.
this is what has made me furious, he was 'well enough', devious enough, organised enough, logical enough to more or less persuade the pilot to leave the cockpit. but none of that capacity extended to one second of humility or compassion for the men women and children on that flight.
he could have 'organised' an individual 'spectacular' if thats what he wanted, but he chose to treat other living souls as nothing more than objects to his own ends, and that is utterly unforgivable.
Another A320 has crash landed in Canada luckily no one was injured or killed but I imagine the Germanwings plane would be on their minds while this was happening. I'm a terrible flyer, no amount of facts and statistics can reassure me and I would be scared if I had a flight coming up so soon after a recent plane crash. If I'd been a passenger on the Canada flight I think it would have put me off for life.
I can't imagine how those poor passengers must have been feeling during the 8 minute descent listening to the pilot trying to break down the door. All those school children must have been terrified and I have so much sympathy for their parents who would have been looking forward to their return. Of course all the other passengers and crew and their families too. The family of the co pilot must be going through a horrendous time and I just hope that there are no vigilantes holding it against them .
No it isn't. If you read the report properly it says the police were led to believe he had looked at such sites, but they are still in the process of investigating and going through his computer. It has not been stated that they have found any evidence of this on his computer.
I would also be inclined to take this report with a pinch of salt anyway - why would a random, unconfirmed statement be made while an investigation is still ongoing?
No it isn't. If you read the report properly it says the police were led to believe he had looked at such sites, but they are still in the process of investigating and going through his computer. It has not been stated that they have found any evidence of this on his computer.
I would also be inclined to take this report with a pinch of salt anyway - why would a random, unconfirmed statement be made while an investigation is still ongoing?
It's now being reported that the captain was shouting "open the damn door" whilst trying to break it down with an axe.
I find it hard to believe that the passengers didn't realise there was anything wrong until the last seconds if that's the case.
The French prosecutor said either "final minutes" or "final moments" at the original press conference, depending on translation. They probably knew for at least a minute or two, I'd have thought.
I always thought the Captain would be using and axe. That would be first thing to do as soon as the door didn't open.
They're very good for getting behind bulkheads etc if there is smoke coming out for example. Sadly as the Flight Deck doors are so robust now it would take a lot of force and time to actually be able to break the door down.
According to The Sun this morning apart from the eye problems he had seen 4 psychiatrists in recent months who knew he was a pilot and were torn between their Hippocratic Oath and a desire to ensure his bosses knew the truth.
It was indicated that his diary found in the flat by police says he knew that his medical issues were about to be exposed.
I agree-partially. Let's not forget, if the main pilot had not needed to go to the toilet or wanted to go at a different time this event may not have happened. Lubitz may have chickened out or the captain may have succeeded in getting the cockpit door opened.
I think this was opportunistic...
Don't think so, it was planned, he may well have tried before but didn't have the opportunity to crash in his preferred place.
I always thought the Captain would be using and axe. That would be first thing to do as soon as the door didn't open.
They're very good for getting behind bulkheads etc if there is smoke coming out for example. Sadly as the Flight Deck doors are so robust now it would take a lot of force and time to actually be able to break the door down.
Mail says it must have been a crowbar, because the only axe was kept in the cockpit. Having seen how difficult it can be for police to break down reinforced doors with "the enforcer", there just wouldn't have been enough time to get through the door.
Another A320 has crash landed in Canada luckily no one was injured or killed but I imagine the Germanwings plane would be on their minds while this was happening. I'm a terrible flyer, no amount of facts and statistics can reassure me and I would be scared if I had a flight coming up so soon after a recent plane crash. If I'd been a passenger on the Canada flight I think it would have put me off for life.
I can't imagine how those poor passengers must have been feeling during the 8 minute descent listening to the pilot trying to break down the door. All those school children must have been terrified and I have so much sympathy for their parents who would have been looking forward to their return. Of course all the other passengers and crew and their families too. The family of the co pilot must be going through a horrendous time and I just hope that there are no vigilantes holding it against them .
I am petrified of flying, even though I have flown many times Europe, Australia, Caribbean, America, India etc but each time I have been so scared. You can throw all the safety statistics at me but the fact is you never know which plane is the one that's going to go down and that is what dominates my mind when I board. Everytime I fly I say never again but I don't want to deprive my children of holidays, but then again I fear them being on a doomed flight. I envy people who can nonchalantly get on a plane and shrug off any fears. Now to add to my list of flying fears, technical problems, turbulence, terrorists, pilot error etc I have to add possible homicidal suicidal pilot.
Comments
Yes but the way the post I quoted worded it reads that he went in with the intention of it on this specific flight but there's no way he'd have known that the pilot was going to leave the cockpit.
I feel exactly the same way. I want his name buried and never uttered again, I want the focus to be on that brave captain and those poor passengers. I have children and the thought of them being in that predicament makes me tearful to just imagine it.
He actively encouraged the pilot to leave the cockpit, judging by the black box transcript.
I think that is the most awful part for the victims families .My own grown children fly a lot and the thought of them terrified and helpless is simply unbearable
Coincidental as that pilot choose to leave his seat at that moment in time . He did not know if the pilot was going to need to go to the toilet did he ?
I agree-partially. Let's not forget, if the main pilot had not needed to go to the toilet or wanted to go at a different time this event may not have happened. Lubitz may have chickened out or the captain may have succeeded in getting the cockpit door opened.
I think this was opportunistic (although Lubitz had encouraged his colleague to go to the loo- so to that extent it was per-meditated). I think that a mental breakdown, combined with anger at his gf & anger/concern over his job made him make that fateful decision. I don't think for a minute he per-planned this for any prolonged time. The comment his ex gf made about him doing something unforgettable I can take with a pinch of salt-plenty of people say stuff like this, it's probably just some showy off thing he said with no real meaning years ago.
As for the passengers- its not like they wouldn't have realised they were descending several minutes before, theres clouds to descend through and also the fact that they were flying lower than they should have been at that time in the flight.
Given the reports of screaming a few minutes before its now clear that many, if not all the passengers knew the plane was in danger for some time before the crash.
It's horrific to contemplate that they all knew they were gonna die but utterly helpless. They literally had no method of escape.
This is why people are so frightened of flying-literally NO CONTROL!!
A car accident may be more likely, but with a car you can steer the car, or attempt to move your body away from impact, or jump out of the car.
With a plane you are eessentially locked inside, completely at the mercy of the planes structural & technological soundness & the pilots wishes.
You can't just "get out" like youre In a car or boat.
My 14 year old daughter took off from Faro at the exact same time on that morning and I can tell you for 5 hellish minutes I thought it was her plane that had come down . Thank god it was reported that that flight was heading to Dusseldorf. My heart goes out to all the victims and their families . How you recover from this I just cannot imagine.
As discussed earlier they had literally just reached cruising height when the plane would pretty much fly itself for the next hour or so. This is going to be the point in any flight where pilots will leave their seat and stretch their legs after the past hour or so of setting up the flight, taxiing, taking off and climbing up. Taking advantage of the break before they will need to be focused and in the cockpit preparing for landing.
Landings and take offs are the points where the most things can go wrong so the period that requires much more concentration from the crew.
He will have flown this route before and so very likely would have a good idea what would happen.
As for being over the area and he just taking a chance he crashed the plane into the favourite valley that Glider pilots from the school he attended used to fly over.
For me that sounds more than just being over the Alps and taking the opportunity. To programme a plane to fly into that very spot from several miles up in a modest descent pattern requires some degree of planning. He had to aim the plane.
It could have just been pure opportunism but I think a degree of planning seems likely as on other flights the right circumstances might not occur at the appropriate moment for him to crash the plane where he wanted to do without putting it into a reckless dive that might have caused it to crash earlier.
Oh benji , what an awful 5 minutes that was for you
It was, but nice posters on here were very reassuring:) and had more info than was forthcoming on the news. she had an onward flight to Inverness from London and I could not relax until I saw her.
She too was on a school trip so I felt great empathy with those parents in particular who lost children on that school trip .
It's unbearable to think of all those passengers last minutes.
Also that his father is utterly broken , what a deeply personal tragedy for his own family . They cannot ever recover from this.
Agreed. Regardless of all this speculation we are engaging in it is good to be brought to remember this is not an episode of Aircraft Investigations (though it will be soon no doubt) but a terrible tragedy for everyone involved. And that includes the co pilot's family as they clearly never saw this coming either. You can only feel for them as much as for the families of the passengers and other crew.
Even the co pilot was a victim of this in many ways because whatever he did or did not do and for whatever reason he will not have chosen to feel the way that he seemingly did.
i completely agree with you. i said as much a couple of days ago as it began to look like a monumental act of narcissism, that i didn't want to be part of fulfilling his wish to be talked about, and i've come back today only because the transcrips of the black box now seem to confirm his despicable behaviour.
if the descriptions of the transcripts are correct he suggested several times to the pilot that he could go to the toilet 'anytime', and even went so far as to comment that the pilot 'hadn't been' before takeoff, and then more or less says 'you can go now'.
this is what has made me furious, he was 'well enough', devious enough, organised enough, logical enough to more or less persuade the pilot to leave the cockpit. but none of that capacity extended to one second of humility or compassion for the men women and children on that flight.
he could have 'organised' an individual 'spectacular' if thats what he wanted, but he chose to treat other living souls as nothing more than objects to his own ends, and that is utterly unforgivable.
I can't imagine how those poor passengers must have been feeling during the 8 minute descent listening to the pilot trying to break down the door. All those school children must have been terrified and I have so much sympathy for their parents who would have been looking forward to their return. Of course all the other passengers and crew and their families too. The family of the co pilot must be going through a horrendous time and I just hope that there are no vigilantes holding it against them
No it isn't. If you read the report properly it says the police were led to believe he had looked at such sites, but they are still in the process of investigating and going through his computer. It has not been stated that they have found any evidence of this on his computer.
I would also be inclined to take this report with a pinch of salt anyway - why would a random, unconfirmed statement be made while an investigation is still ongoing?
Sorry I misquoted what was said.
It's from the flight voice recorder.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/andreas-lubitz-germanwings-flights-last-5420683
The French prosecutor said either "final minutes" or "final moments" at the original press conference, depending on translation. They probably knew for at least a minute or two, I'd have thought.
They're very good for getting behind bulkheads etc if there is smoke coming out for example. Sadly as the Flight Deck doors are so robust now it would take a lot of force and time to actually be able to break the door down.
It was indicated that his diary found in the flat by police says he knew that his medical issues were about to be exposed.
Mail says it must have been a crowbar, because the only axe was kept in the cockpit. Having seen how difficult it can be for police to break down reinforced doors with "the enforcer", there just wouldn't have been enough time to get through the door.
I am petrified of flying, even though I have flown many times Europe, Australia, Caribbean, America, India etc but each time I have been so scared. You can throw all the safety statistics at me but the fact is you never know which plane is the one that's going to go down and that is what dominates my mind when I board. Everytime I fly I say never again but I don't want to deprive my children of holidays, but then again I fear them being on a doomed flight. I envy people who can nonchalantly get on a plane and shrug off any fears. Now to add to my list of flying fears, technical problems, turbulence, terrorists, pilot error etc I have to add possible homicidal suicidal pilot.