Ah but isn;t this merely excusing someone for a milder form of domestic violence when in fact I believe all domestic violence should be condemned equally. When you start to make allowances, effectively because 'other people have done worse' it's a slippery slope for me.
Should Evander be let off punching a horse as he didn't mutilate or torture it to death like other people have done in the past? After all, a right hook from the champ is pretty mild in comparison right so probably not worth condemning?
(before I get slated I am in no way condoning what Holyfield did, just trying to illustrate my point).
And a very well made point too. Jim has had quite a few(very rightly) condemnations made about him since the show started. Sam on the otherhand has become a bit of an innocent, butter wouldn't melt in her mouth, sweetheart with people even wanting her to win. Personally I think she's been given advice to keep her head down and not to get involved in any controversy. A bore in otherwords. But besides my personal opinion of her in terms of playing the game, I think it's fair to bring the domestic violence aspect up. Why should she get off so lightly?
there is never an excuse for domestic violence it doesnt matter what gender the victim or perpetrator is
men tend to get a lot less sympathy because they are bigger and stronger, they are more reluctant to report it or tell friends/family because they fear ridicule, they are also more likely to stand and take it without retaliation because they think/know that if they hit back they will get the blame and be branded as a wife beater
i remember when ross kemp (a big strong man) was hospitalised by his then wife and the papers made out that he was some kind of wimp if he had hit back he would have been slagged off for hitting a woman
im not saying that female on male violence is any worse than male on female but the poor bloke cant win if he is in that situation
And a very well made point too. Jim has had quite a few(very rightly) condemnations made about him since the show started. Sam on the otherhand has become a bit of an innocent, butter wouldn't melt in her mouth, sweetheart with people even wanting her to win. Personally I think she's been given advice to keep her head down and not to get involved in any controversy. A bore in otherwords. But besides my personal opinion of her in terms of playing the game, I think it's fair to bring the domestic violence aspect up. Why should she get off so lightly?
BIB - because she is young, pretty, popular and as other people have said who wouldnt want to smack joey essex and after all he probably provoked her >:(
nothing excuses that kind of behaviour but some people will find excuses for it
BIB - because she is young, pretty, popular and as other people have said who wouldnt want to smack joey essex and after all he probably provoked her >:(
nothing excuses that kind of behaviour but some people will find excuses for it
Yes you are right. Unfortunately some people will always excuse domestic violence....even those who've been subjected to it.
Ah but isn;t this merely excusing someone for a milder form of domestic violence when in fact I believe all domestic violence should be condemned equally. When you start to make allowances, effectively because 'other people have done worse' it's a slippery slope for me.
Should Evander be let off punching a horse as he didn't mutilate or torture it to death like other people have done in the past? After all, a right hook from the champ is pretty mild in comparison right so probably not worth condemning?
(before I get slated I am in no way condoning what Holyfield did, just trying to illustrate my point).
I certainly wasn't excusing her 'milder form of violence' and I agree that all forms of violence should be condemned.
This doesn't change the fact that one was far more serious than the other. One victim was attacked in a potentially life threatening way and the other one wasn't. One victim was overpowered and helpless and the other one wasn't. Crime is measured by the degree of harm caused and punishments are dealt out accordingly. The 'law' is rational enough to realise that some offences are more serious than others and so am I. This was the point I was trying to make.
Not that I'm condoning domestic violence at all, but who wouldn't love to give Joey Essex a slap?
:o:o Lmao I know I shouldn't laugh but somethings are just funny..My Brother in Law has beaten my sister all of their married Life physically & mentally! I don't know why she has stayed with him all these years? it's crazy! I loath the cretin with a passion!
I certainly wasn't excusing her 'milder form of violence' and I agree that all forms of violence should be condemned.
This doesn't change the fact that one was far more serious than the other. One victim was attacked in a potentially life threatening way and the other one wasn't. One victim was overpowered and helpless and the other one wasn't. Crime is measured by the degree of harm caused and punishments are dealt out accordingly. The 'law' is rational enough to realise that some offences are more serious than others and so am I. This was the point I was trying to make.
Of course you are right in what you say regarding the law and levels of violence. However, too often is the case that a slap or a push often escalates to something more each time there's an argument or disagreement.
As my mother used to say....if you allow them to hit you once, then you're laying the foundations for being treated with disrespect. It should be no tolerance, but unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world and people often live with abusers for all sorts of reasons. Not least because the fear of the unknown perhaps is more scary to them. Better the devil you know and all that. But it never helps unless the person doing the abuse actively seeks to get help for it and the one being abused, refuses to put up with it anymore.
:o:o Lmao I know I shouldn't laugh but somethings are just funny..My Brother in Law has beaten my sister all of their married Life physically & mentally! I don't know why she has stayed with him all these years? it's crazy! I loath the cretin with a passion!
This is the real heartbreak and fall out of domestic abuse.....watching someone you love being subjected to it.
Which was nonsense. Even his fiance recently said the WORST thing he has done is embarrass her on BB. Even the trash Sun article mentioned NO violence and she slated him.
If a women said my cock was small and i was offended i could call the police and say she hit me. ANYBODY can say anything and have somebody charged; means nothing.
Personally I think slapping Joey Essex is like slapping a particularly annoying puppy dog for being a particularly annoying puppy dog. Aside from the "all violence is wrong" thing it seems just cruel in a puppy dog way.
Yes, he can be an idiot and is no doubt exaggerating the Tim-nice-but-dim thing , but he seems a kindly inoffensive guy .
I never knew that about Sam.:(
If a women said my cock was small and i was offended i could call the police and say she hit me. ANYBODY can say anything and have somebody charged; means nothing.
I have some experience in this area - it's easy to get the police to turn up and listen to your story. It's very hard to get them to charge anyone with anything. Trying to keep the crime figures down dontcha know.
There's a big difference between Sam giving a guy a bit of a slap and a druken old male like Jim beating his wife. Men are stronger and way out of control if they get angry.
I certainly wasn't excusing her 'milder form of violence' and I agree that all forms of violence should be condemned.
This doesn't change the fact that one was far more serious than the other.
Yes I understand all of this (and the rest of the post btw). It still kind of misses my point. I appreciate that there are differing levels for all sorts of things, and as you say the legal system etc fully recognises this.
My sole point is that it is IMO dangerous and hypocritical when ANY incidents of domestic violence are glossed over/ trivialised for whatever reason by some people (am not referring to you or indeed anyone in particular on here). This could be because it's a woman on a man, or because they didn't inflict bruises, or because it's not as bad as others who are put in hospital etc.
As soon as you raise your hand to your partner, whether it be male or female, and no matter to what extent, surely it should be condemned. (I would cite self defence as the only excuse for this)
Even in this thread someone joked about Sam hitting Joey Essex as if it's amusing just because the guy is a bit of an idiot. I am no far of his, in fact very far from it, but I maintain he doesn't deserve to be hit, and Sam Faiers deserves to be condemned for it, just as much as if it were Joey Essex that struck her.
'It was only a slap. Everyone slaps their boyfriend once, when they deserve it.'
The worst of this isn't the double standard but that she's trying to excuse her behaviour.
The lack of remorse and her attempt to justify/make light of it is as awful..
I don't watch TOWIE or MIC so didn't know any of the characters so judged Sam only on her behaviour in the house. A bit bland perhaps but pretty nice. So this revelation is pretty shocking
Yes I understand all of this. It still kind of misses my point. I appreciate that there are differening levels for all sorts of things, and as you say the legal system etc fully recognises this.
My sole point is that it is IMO dangerous and hypocritical when ANY incident of domestic violence are glossed over/ trivialised for whatever reason by some people (am not referring to you or indeed anyone in particular on here). This could be because it's a woman on a man, or because they didn't inflict bruises, or because it's not as bad as others who are put in hospital etc.
As soon as you raise your hand to your partner, whether it be male or female, and no matter to what extent, surely it should be condemned. (I would cite self defence as the only excuse for this)
Even in this thread someone joked about Sam hitting Joey Essex as if it's amusing just because the guy is a bit of an idiot. I am no far of his, in fact very far from it, but I maintain he doesn't deserve to be hit, and Sam Faiers deserves to be condemned for it, just as much as if it were Joey Essex that beat her.
I didn't miss your point. I agreed with you that all violence should be condemned.:)
Comments
And a very well made point too. Jim has had quite a few(very rightly) condemnations made about him since the show started. Sam on the otherhand has become a bit of an innocent, butter wouldn't melt in her mouth, sweetheart with people even wanting her to win. Personally I think she's been given advice to keep her head down and not to get involved in any controversy. A bore in otherwords. But besides my personal opinion of her in terms of playing the game, I think it's fair to bring the domestic violence aspect up. Why should she get off so lightly?
men tend to get a lot less sympathy because they are bigger and stronger, they are more reluctant to report it or tell friends/family because they fear ridicule, they are also more likely to stand and take it without retaliation because they think/know that if they hit back they will get the blame and be branded as a wife beater
i remember when ross kemp (a big strong man) was hospitalised by his then wife and the papers made out that he was some kind of wimp if he had hit back he would have been slagged off for hitting a woman
im not saying that female on male violence is any worse than male on female but the poor bloke cant win if he is in that situation
The same as Melanie Sykes who hit her husband.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CEAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.co.uk%2F2014%2F01%2F03%2Fmelanie-sykes-jack-cockings-split_n_4534906.html&ei=U1PVUs6KDoGShQeFxIDYAw&usg=AFQjCNFKrZOFUzIeNTBgY-5qoDJ6K9RSzQ&sig2=T2Otebne3qE0WP1U5ty8ew&bvm=bv.59378465,d.ZG4
BIB - because she is young, pretty, popular and as other people have said who wouldnt want to smack joey essex and after all he probably provoked her >:(
nothing excuses that kind of behaviour but some people will find excuses for it
Yes you are right. Unfortunately some people will always excuse domestic violence....even those who've been subjected to it.
I certainly wasn't excusing her 'milder form of violence' and I agree that all forms of violence should be condemned.
This doesn't change the fact that one was far more serious than the other. One victim was attacked in a potentially life threatening way and the other one wasn't. One victim was overpowered and helpless and the other one wasn't. Crime is measured by the degree of harm caused and punishments are dealt out accordingly. The 'law' is rational enough to realise that some offences are more serious than others and so am I. This was the point I was trying to make.
Of course you are right in what you say regarding the law and levels of violence. However, too often is the case that a slap or a push often escalates to something more each time there's an argument or disagreement.
As my mother used to say....if you allow them to hit you once, then you're laying the foundations for being treated with disrespect. It should be no tolerance, but unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world and people often live with abusers for all sorts of reasons. Not least because the fear of the unknown perhaps is more scary to them. Better the devil you know and all that. But it never helps unless the person doing the abuse actively seeks to get help for it and the one being abused, refuses to put up with it anymore.
This is the real heartbreak and fall out of domestic abuse.....watching someone you love being subjected to it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2338622/TOWIE-Sam-Faiers-reveals-hit-ex-boyfriend-Joey-Essex-enjoys-pamper-day-Billie-Fern.html
'It was only a slap. Everyone slaps their boyfriend once, when they deserve it.'
The worst of this isn't the double standard but that she's trying to excuse her behaviour.
Lee has been charged with assault after hitting his fiancée.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11034325
Which was nonsense. Even his fiance recently said the WORST thing he has done is embarrass her on BB. Even the trash Sun article mentioned NO violence and she slated him.
If a women said my cock was small and i was offended i could call the police and say she hit me. ANYBODY can say anything and have somebody charged; means nothing.
So Dappy, Jim, Sam, Lee, Jasmine - is there anyone in there not routinely arrested?
Yes, he can be an idiot and is no doubt exaggerating the Tim-nice-but-dim thing , but he seems a kindly inoffensive guy .
I never knew that about Sam.:(
I have some experience in this area - it's easy to get the police to turn up and listen to your story. It's very hard to get them to charge anyone with anything. Trying to keep the crime figures down dontcha know.
Yes, one knows what they're doing.
Thank you, that is kind of you to say
Yes I understand all of this (and the rest of the post btw). It still kind of misses my point. I appreciate that there are differing levels for all sorts of things, and as you say the legal system etc fully recognises this.
My sole point is that it is IMO dangerous and hypocritical when ANY incidents of domestic violence are glossed over/ trivialised for whatever reason by some people (am not referring to you or indeed anyone in particular on here). This could be because it's a woman on a man, or because they didn't inflict bruises, or because it's not as bad as others who are put in hospital etc.
As soon as you raise your hand to your partner, whether it be male or female, and no matter to what extent, surely it should be condemned. (I would cite self defence as the only excuse for this)
Even in this thread someone joked about Sam hitting Joey Essex as if it's amusing just because the guy is a bit of an idiot. I am no far of his, in fact very far from it, but I maintain he doesn't deserve to be hit, and Sam Faiers deserves to be condemned for it, just as much as if it were Joey Essex that struck her.
The lack of remorse and her attempt to justify/make light of it is as awful..
I don't watch TOWIE or MIC so didn't know any of the characters so judged Sam only on her behaviour in the house. A bit bland perhaps but pretty nice. So this revelation is pretty shocking
Sorry cancel that .. just read previous post.
I didn't miss your point. I agreed with you that all violence should be condemned.:)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11112547
Innocent until proved guilty and all that.