I'm actually reviewing this for the scifi geeks club which is part of the galactic netcasts family. and I am only scoring this 7/10 - now this may sound mean, in the poll I only had it as good rather than excellent. And the reason is it's too manic, it huge set piece to huge set piece. I think PC deserves something better paced.
Mainly the three things wrong with deep breath are as follows.
1. Very big dinosaur, firstly too big, secondly a poor plot device.
2. Vastra, she's a lizard but has boobs - like how mammalian
3. Do we really need to see a lizard and her wife kiss, purely sensationalist, and added nothing to the story. Yes OK we get it, they are a couple, and a lesbian one at that, and oh look they are married even though such things in Victorian England wouldn't be tolerated. I don't need to see it. I would of been more impressed if we saw Strax breast feeding.
It is, and a cause of the bien-pensant London Metropolitan liberal elite who make up most of the workforce at the BBC and who make and write this show. All three of our political leaders also belong in this category hence Cameron legalising gay marriage.
None of these people have any idea what that rest of Britain is like or that there are any views different to their own "correct" ones.
The bien-pensant London Metropolitan liberal elite?
"Deep Breath, underneath all its horse-riding, droid-fighting, dinosaur-vomiting boisterousness, continues that introspective thread. Thanks to Peter Capaldi’s mastery of, and relish in, the role (and the visible fearlessness he’s inspired in Jenna Coleman’s performance), along with the odd moment of poetry from Moffat’s script, the episode’s psychological study of the Doctor is arguably its biggest success."
"Beneath the bluster, Deep Breath is a contemplative story about loneliness and identity. Its ‘monsters’ - the dinosaur and the clockwork droids - are more in service of those themes than they are of the episode’s plot (which is perhaps what makes them slightly unsatisfying story elements). The chief role of both is to be a corollary for the Doctor’s situation. The dinosaur is alone, bereft of home, familiarity and kinship, and out-of-time on a geological scale. The node-droid - trying to get home the long way round - has “replaced every piece of [itself], mechanical and organic, time and time again”. “You probably can’t even remember where you got that face from”, the Doctor tells it, cementing the parallels between them. Deep Breath’s monsters are mirrors held up to reflect the Doctor. And they’re not the only ones."
3. Do we really need to see a lizard and her wife kiss, purely sensationalist, and added nothing to the story. Yes OK we get it, they are a couple, and a lesbian one at that, and oh look they are married even though such things in Victorian England wouldn't be tolerated. I don't need to see it. I would of been more impressed if we saw Strax breast feeding.
But it wasn't simply a kiss and it did have a place in the story, can you remember why they kissed?
For a stupid reason that made zero sense and was in arguably an excuse just to feature them kissing.
I thought it was lovely, especially after that awful scene in 'The Name of the Doctor' when it looked like Jenny had been murdered during the astral conference call and Vastra had been helpless and unable to save her. This time, Vastra used the air in her own lungs to save her wife. Smashing!
For a stupid reason that made zero sense and was in arguably an excuse just to feature them kissing.
Well fiction tends to work like that. The writer puts together a story to allow things to happen and it requires a lot of "coincidence" and dramatic license. It's all manufactured to make certain things occur.
Fact is, unlike what the poster said, there was a story reason for their kiss. They just chose to ignore it.
What made zero sense? That a Silurian can hold oxygen in her lungs and share it with her wife? Makes about as much sense as a police box being a spaceship that's bigger on the inside, but hey, it's Doctor Who.
"Deep Breath, underneath all its horse-riding, droid-fighting, dinosaur-vomiting boisterousness, continues that introspective thread. Thanks to Peter Capaldi’s mastery of, and relish in, the role (and the visible fearlessness he’s inspired in Jenna Coleman’s performance), along with the odd moment of poetry from Moffat’s script, the episode’s psychological study of the Doctor is arguably its biggest success."
"Beneath the bluster, Deep Breath is a contemplative story about loneliness and identity. Its ‘monsters’ - the dinosaur and the clockwork droids - are more in service of those themes than they are of the episode’s plot (which is perhaps what makes them slightly unsatisfying story elements). The chief role of both is to be a corollary for the Doctor’s situation. The dinosaur is alone, bereft of home, familiarity and kinship, and out-of-time on a geological scale. The node-droid - trying to get home the long way round - has “replaced every piece of [itself], mechanical and organic, time and time again”. “You probably can’t even remember where you got that face from”, the Doctor tells it, cementing the parallels between them. Deep Breath’s monsters are mirrors held up to reflect the Doctor. And they’re not the only ones."
I think the best stories (in all literature and media, not just Doctor Who) explore hidden truths in everyday life that the audience can learn from. I think these themes of identity in the episode really resonated, and this quote sums it up.
So when Clara doesn’t recognise the Doctor in Deep Breath, it shakes his foundations. That’s the other spot-on moment of emotional truth in the episode – in real life, when the person who knows us best in the world goes away, along with grief comes panic. We only understood who we were through them and so without them, we’re left spinning. If our identities only exist in relation to other people’s conceptions of us, then we need to be recognised to know who we are.
The bien-pensant London Metropolitan liberal elite?
The what?
You know. You can see them swanking round the London Borough of Salford like they own the place with their fancy Italian coffees and their shiny French guillotines cutting the heads off patriotic passers by for looking at them in a politically incorrect manner or drinking decent British Nescafe out of a mug.
I can't speak for anybody else's intentions but it is effectively a wind up if it winds you up. Like a dinosaur burning in the Thames it is a sad and unedifying sight. Don't let it wind you up.
I have seen it three times now and can further see deeper and deeper the metaphors and visual treats on screen represented...everything was perfectly done!
And Den of geek hit the nail on the head...the mirrors/veils/masks shown here...the faces we put on, how we want to be seen an even the villains themselves not being true to their basic programming ...very well done....and I adored the direction you can tell it was by a Horror director....that sense of menace and dark burning fire throughout just made it all the more special.
All these criticisms "I cant believe the ame guy who wrote Blink, Empty Child, Silence In The Library has sank this low??"....i mean REALLY! IMO this is perhaps Moffats finest script thus far alongside Day of The Doctor and Pandorica Opens/Big Bang personally...I just adored everything and all those details.
I cannot believe the negativity...I know not everyone loves everything but the details visual and script and within the acting were just so beautifully don...well worth the 80 minutes.
I just wonder how it will allow in future 45 min episodes....I think it will definitely work...as series 8 really does looks set to be about looking to the past and moving forward...a soul searching and haunted series I feel...as represented in the theme tune....beautiful.
I have just got round to watching the first episode and do agree with the majority of posters who voted (as well as the newspaper critics) that this was a very good start to Peter Capaldi's tenure as The Doctor. It was really quite atmospheric (and chilling I imagine for young people) and I actually quite like the titles and music too. I am glad we are getting all the episodes in one season rather than split as has happened quite recently.
I have just got round to watching the first episode and do agree with the majority of posters who voted (as well as the newspaper critics) that this was a very good start to Peter Capaldi's tenure as The Doctor. It was really quite atmospheric (and chilling I imagine for young people) and I actually quite like the titles and music too. I am glad we are getting all the episodes in one season rather than split as has happened quite recently.
^^ Speaking of which I never want a "split" again!
Series 6 it worked very well....but for series 7 i felt so disjointed...the first half was a conclusion to a story arc the second half built up another...it felt like two seperate series....but at the same time not ...very confusing but that is my main complaint.
I find it refreshing we will have a great run of 12 consecutive episodes back to back :-) to allow for us to see organic growth in characters and themes over the coming weeks :-)
I've not had time to read all of this thread, so I apologise if this has been discussed, but if Clara was the Impossible Girl who went through all of time to help all of the incarnations of the Doctor, why did she have a problem with his new "older" face? She had seen him has a young man and an old man, she knew how much he could alter his looks.
I've not had time to read all of this thread, so I apologise if this has been discussed, but if Clara was the Impossible Girl who went through all of time to help all of the incarnations of the Doctor, why did she have a problem with his new "older" face? She had seen him has a young man and an old man, she knew how much he could alter his looks.
She seemed confused as to how he could have 'renewed' himself but look significantly older with grey hair that he only just got. This is what the dialogue went with, anyway. While it's still unclear how much she remembered of her echoes, what we did see what Clara watching as The Doctor's youngest appearance grew old over centuries - as opposed to popping up out of nowhere.
For all we know, she thought the older Doctors had simply grown old. Three out of the four Doctors we have seen her actually interact with before 12 did - come to think of it (1, War, 11)
I've not had time to read all of this thread, so I apologise if this has been discussed, but if Clara was the Impossible Girl who went through all of time to help all of the incarnations of the Doctor, why did she have a problem with his new "older" face? She had seen him has a young man and an old man, she knew how much he could alter his looks.
My view is that the 'impossible girl' storyline was so muddled and restricted Clara so much in terms of being able to have her own unique personality that they are now thankfully distancing themselves from it and treating Clara as a normal companion who can experience things (like regeneration) for herself first time. Thus allowing her character to flourish and develop in the way it only really started doing since day of the doctor when the 'impossible girl' storyline was finished.
Yes, it's not like we can ever completely forget it, but you can easily just think that she personally dosent have any memories of things the 'echoes' might have seen (if they did now exist at all). Apart from how they used it as a nickname i'm thinking and hoping that tosh won't be brought up again and thankfully so.
I am really enjoying reading all of you peoples posts and thoughts.
I finally got to watch the program and have to say I really enjoyed it!
I think it was a bit choppy and quick going from the regeneration straight to the spitting out by the dinosaur. I would have liked to have seen a scene of them interacting in the Tardis prior to being swallowed - but it was great to see The Doctor poke his new face out the door and say "shush". LOL
Anyway I was thinking that his new face makes sense to me.
Back in Pompeii he saved Caecilius and his family. He had to be told to do it really, but he did do it. He did a compassionate act.
SO maybe subconsciously- as he knew he was about to start a new series of regenerations, and he knew it would be a "big" one and he would probably be very much changed (which is why he phoned Clara I think) - maybe he chose that body/face for a couple of reasons:
1. To remind himself to always be compassionate to others
2. After watching his beloved Pompeii destroyed and all his past and friends gone, Caecilius would have to start a "new" life, a new beginning. The Doctor could see the frustration and hurt in Caecilius's face and yet there was hope for his family to move forward and rebuild a life.
Maybe the Doctor admired the kind of bravery and determination it would take for a "new beginning" and as The Doctor himself was now facing a very "new beginning" , Caecilius may have been a sort of symbol to that. Someone inspiring and to be admired .
Probably not great reasons but that is what I felt while watching the Doctor as he kept looking at his "furious" reflections LOL and wondering about "who frowned this face?".
Comments
Mainly the three things wrong with deep breath are as follows.
1. Very big dinosaur, firstly too big, secondly a poor plot device.
2. Vastra, she's a lizard but has boobs - like how mammalian
3. Do we really need to see a lizard and her wife kiss, purely sensationalist, and added nothing to the story. Yes OK we get it, they are a couple, and a lesbian one at that, and oh look they are married even though such things in Victorian England wouldn't be tolerated. I don't need to see it. I would of been more impressed if we saw Strax breast feeding.
That's more than "Jeremy Clarkson is a piece of racist scum that needs to be removed from the schedules" - which received two.
Clearly Doctor Who is disgusting and needs to be pulled immediately. Nobody is bigger than the BBC - not even lizard women from the dawn of time.
Brilliant!
I don't remember that episode of Who
The bien-pensant London Metropolitan liberal elite?
The what?
Please tell me that post is a wind up?
These people are remarkably like you.
"Beneath the bluster, Deep Breath is a contemplative story about loneliness and identity. Its ‘monsters’ - the dinosaur and the clockwork droids - are more in service of those themes than they are of the episode’s plot (which is perhaps what makes them slightly unsatisfying story elements). The chief role of both is to be a corollary for the Doctor’s situation. The dinosaur is alone, bereft of home, familiarity and kinship, and out-of-time on a geological scale. The node-droid - trying to get home the long way round - has “replaced every piece of [itself], mechanical and organic, time and time again”. “You probably can’t even remember where you got that face from”, the Doctor tells it, cementing the parallels between them. Deep Breath’s monsters are mirrors held up to reflect the Doctor. And they’re not the only ones."
Read more: http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/doctor-who/31836/doctor-who-deep-breath-identity-and-furious-mirrors
But it wasn't simply a kiss and it did have a place in the story, can you remember why they kissed?
When the Doctor was disguised as a Droid the face he was wearing was Matt Smith's.
Never noticed it on first viewing but after seeing it mentioned in a review I looked out for it on my second viewing and it is Matt's face.
I thought it was lovely, especially after that awful scene in 'The Name of the Doctor' when it looked like Jenny had been murdered during the astral conference call and Vastra had been helpless and unable to save her. This time, Vastra used the air in her own lungs to save her wife. Smashing!
Well fiction tends to work like that. The writer puts together a story to allow things to happen and it requires a lot of "coincidence" and dramatic license. It's all manufactured to make certain things occur.
Fact is, unlike what the poster said, there was a story reason for their kiss. They just chose to ignore it.
What made zero sense? That a Silurian can hold oxygen in her lungs and share it with her wife? Makes about as much sense as a police box being a spaceship that's bigger on the inside, but hey, it's Doctor Who.
I think the best stories (in all literature and media, not just Doctor Who) explore hidden truths in everyday life that the audience can learn from. I think these themes of identity in the episode really resonated, and this quote sums it up.
They lived officially as lady & maid, not woman & female partner.
You know. You can see them swanking round the London Borough of Salford like they own the place with their fancy Italian coffees and their shiny French guillotines cutting the heads off patriotic passers by for looking at them in a politically incorrect manner or drinking decent British Nescafe out of a mug.
I can't speak for anybody else's intentions but it is effectively a wind up if it winds you up. Like a dinosaur burning in the Thames it is a sad and unedifying sight. Don't let it wind you up.
And Den of geek hit the nail on the head...the mirrors/veils/masks shown here...the faces we put on, how we want to be seen an even the villains themselves not being true to their basic programming ...very well done....and I adored the direction you can tell it was by a Horror director....that sense of menace and dark burning fire throughout just made it all the more special.
All these criticisms "I cant believe the ame guy who wrote Blink, Empty Child, Silence In The Library has sank this low??"....i mean REALLY! IMO this is perhaps Moffats finest script thus far alongside Day of The Doctor and Pandorica Opens/Big Bang personally...I just adored everything and all those details.
I cannot believe the negativity...I know not everyone loves everything but the details visual and script and within the acting were just so beautifully don...well worth the 80 minutes.
I just wonder how it will allow in future 45 min episodes....I think it will definitely work...as series 8 really does looks set to be about looking to the past and moving forward...a soul searching and haunted series I feel...as represented in the theme tune....beautiful.
I truly cannot wait to see where they head next!
^^ Speaking of which I never want a "split" again!
Series 6 it worked very well....but for series 7 i felt so disjointed...the first half was a conclusion to a story arc the second half built up another...it felt like two seperate series....but at the same time not ...very confusing
I find it refreshing we will have a great run of 12 consecutive episodes back to back :-) to allow for us to see organic growth in characters and themes over the coming weeks :-)
She seemed confused as to how he could have 'renewed' himself but look significantly older with grey hair that he only just got. This is what the dialogue went with, anyway. While it's still unclear how much she remembered of her echoes, what we did see what Clara watching as The Doctor's youngest appearance grew old over centuries - as opposed to popping up out of nowhere.
For all we know, she thought the older Doctors had simply grown old. Three out of the four Doctors we have seen her actually interact with before 12 did - come to think of it (1, War, 11)
My view is that the 'impossible girl' storyline was so muddled and restricted Clara so much in terms of being able to have her own unique personality that they are now thankfully distancing themselves from it and treating Clara as a normal companion who can experience things (like regeneration) for herself first time. Thus allowing her character to flourish and develop in the way it only really started doing since day of the doctor when the 'impossible girl' storyline was finished.
Yes, it's not like we can ever completely forget it, but you can easily just think that she personally dosent have any memories of things the 'echoes' might have seen (if they did now exist at all). Apart from how they used it as a nickname i'm thinking and hoping that tosh won't be brought up again and thankfully so.
I finally got to watch the program and have to say I really enjoyed it!
I think it was a bit choppy and quick going from the regeneration straight to the spitting out by the dinosaur. I would have liked to have seen a scene of them interacting in the Tardis prior to being swallowed - but it was great to see The Doctor poke his new face out the door and say "shush". LOL
Anyway I was thinking that his new face makes sense to me.
Back in Pompeii he saved Caecilius and his family. He had to be told to do it really, but he did do it. He did a compassionate act.
SO maybe subconsciously- as he knew he was about to start a new series of regenerations, and he knew it would be a "big" one and he would probably be very much changed (which is why he phoned Clara I think) - maybe he chose that body/face for a couple of reasons:
1. To remind himself to always be compassionate to others
2. After watching his beloved Pompeii destroyed and all his past and friends gone, Caecilius would have to start a "new" life, a new beginning. The Doctor could see the frustration and hurt in Caecilius's face and yet there was hope for his family to move forward and rebuild a life.
Maybe the Doctor admired the kind of bravery and determination it would take for a "new beginning" and as The Doctor himself was now facing a very "new beginning" , Caecilius may have been a sort of symbol to that. Someone inspiring and to be admired .
Probably not great reasons but that is what I felt while watching the Doctor as he kept looking at his "furious" reflections LOL and wondering about "who frowned this face?".
Anyway, I enjoyed the show.
I am going to love this Doctor..
a LOT!