The theory is that Jack couldn't die until he told the Doctor about the Master.
The Face of Boe was the one who warned the doctor and the only person who could have known about the Master and survive long enough to meet the doctor in new(x13?) York was Jack, thanks to the events in LOTTL.
Hmm maybe. "Wibbly-wobbly timey-whimey" as the Doctor says. However, the F.O.B's revelation only helped the Doctor identify the master, it didn't help him defeat him. If the Doctor hadn't known who he was, and had just followed the Master back to earth then he could still have learned that he was the Master, when the Master bought up the time war.
We have to remember that when RTD said it was a theory, Julie Gardner told him to stop backtracking.
Until/unless there is a story that establishes Jack isn't the Face of Boe, it's safe to assume he is and stop theorising that he isn't.
As for FOB being able to die, if the universe can die (which is established fact in Doctor Who), then so can anything in it, no?
Secondly, what a rubbish last message. If I was going to wait around millions of years to warn the Doctor about the Master my message would be along the lines of "Soon you're going to meet a chap called Yano. He's really the Master in human form. Probably not a good idea to help him."
Lol It's Yana and the reason why he said 'You are not alone' is because a different message would not have the initials Y.A.N.A (the name of the Master's penultimate incarnation).
Hmm maybe. "Wibbly-wobbly timey-whimey" as the Doctor says. However, the F.O.B's revelation only helped the Doctor identify the master, it didn't help him defeat him.
If FOB had said too much, it would have created a paradox.
If FOB had said too much, it would have created a paradox.
Even if he had told him everything that was to happen, it wouldn't matter as the Doctor would still have stopped it in the same amount of time, at the same time, regardless.
In the episode Gridlock during series 3 of Doctor Who, the face of boe dies and then later on at the end of series 3, Jack says his nickname was the face of boe and Russell said it's only a theory and I just read on youtube loads of video descriptions and comments saying that he IS the face of boe. But how can he be, Jack can't die?
Unless Jack is not as immortal as he thinks, and sooner or later he grows old and dies.
Everything Dies, Everything Must come to an end..
I still think he is, There is no reason they would put that in, if it wasnt true what would be the point.!!
Even if he had told him everything that was to happen, it wouldn't matter as the Doctor would still have stopped it in the same amount of time, at the same time, regardless.
No, because if he'd told him everything then the whole course of history would have been changed.
What actually happened is a pre-destination paradox - Jack saw YANA so told The Doctor who twigged about YANA which Jack saw...
im don't know either way... if FOB is jack or not... but... I've always wondered what if FOB's message of "you are not alone" wasn't refering to the master at all.....
Could the master have been used to trick the audience in order to surprise them with something else later on...
I don't think he will end up being the Face of Boe. I mean...the Face is a giant head in a jar FFS! The best thing would be for Jack to name the Face himself and for him to tell the Face the message he has to tell the Doctor in the future. If Jack is the Face and immortal forever it ruins his Torchwood character because we already know there is no resolution for him. Jack should get back his mortality and maybe die at the end of Torchwood. It would be the natural end.
But FOB didnt die because he was shot/dropped from a building/stabbed etc etc, he died of old age... he quite litterally wore out
This is something that some people can't seem to grasp. Just because Jack says he can't die doesn't mean he can't. He just hasn't worked out how yet! And he says he doesn't age, but it's only been a couple of hundred years so far (at most), which relative to the billions of years FOB exists is nothing. I even seem to recall him mentioning he'd developed a couple of grey hairs in an episode last year, which should be a clue in itself that all is not quite as black and white as he likes to think. :rolleyes:
This is something that some people can't seem to grasp. Just because Jack says he can't die doesn't mean he can't. He just hasn't worked out how yet! And he says he doesn't age, but it's only been a couple of hundred years so far (at most), which relative to the billions of years FOB exists is nothing. I even seem to recall him mentioning he'd developed a couple of grey hairs in an episode last year, which should be a clue in itself that all is not quite as black and white as he likes to think. :rolleyes:
But doesn't the not being able to die thing come from him being "a fixed point in time" or something I think the doctor called him?
This is something that some people can't seem to grasp. Just because Jack says he can't die doesn't mean he can't.
After living a billion years I think he'd finally work out that putting himself through a mincer then having someone split the bits up and blast them into the heart of an exploding supernova might just do the trick, or if he's squeamish he might find a better way because unless he doesn't he'll be stuck all alone awaiting the heat death of the universe when all the stars have burnt out and he's the only one left for all eternity.
I was half expecting Jack to jump on the bomb in last night's Torchwood and shield the others. Then I thought, maybe that would actually kill Jack if was splattered across the Cardiff landscape, surely THAT would be final?
I think it's also worth looking at how the FOB dies. He's literally sacrifices what remains of his life to save New New York. He dies through a choice, rather than being killed. At no other point have we seen Jack making this choice, except when confronting the Daleks just before he died the first time. Just before Rose bought him back.
I wonder whether the whole point is that Jack can't be killed, but can actually choose to die?
I think it's also worth looking at how the FOB dies. He's literally sacrifices what remains of his life to save New New York. He dies through a choice, rather than being killed. At no other point have we seen Jack making this choice, except when confronting the Daleks just before he died the first time. Just before Rose bought him back.
I wonder whether the whole point is that Jack can't be killed, but can actually choose to die?
I think the whole point is FOB was a late choice that wasn't in the original thinking. Retrospective continuity arguments are doomed to fail most logic tests, you can only take serious account of new evidence from the moment the decision was made to add this idea.
I like my theory: The FoB is actually the Doctor, at a seriously long time past his last regeneration. As the regenerations were controlled by the timelords, it's all gone horribly wrong and now he's just a face.
He realised he couldn't call himself the Doctor if he was to help his younger self, so he changed his name to the Face Of Boe, as Jack (the other immortal) was known as that.
Or <cheeky mode on> he put his memories into a "fob" watch like before, thinking at the time... "hmm, fob. F.O.B. Face Of Boe! That'll do! I'll remember that I'm sure!".
Correct me if I'm wrong here but at the end of New Earth, doesn't the FOB dematerialise away from the Doctor. It's been rumoured ahead of the xmas special that
Astrid is a living Tardis
If that's the case then could FOB turn out as
some form of void ship/collective consciousness of Time Lords,created in the last days of the Time War
COuld BOE stand for
Borussa,Omega and another Time Lord
In the same way that Rose met the Doctor at Bad Wolf Bay, could her time goddess moment, mean that she created Capt Jack to grow up on the Boeshine peninsula.
Lol It's Yana and the reason why he said 'You are not alone' is because a different message would not have the initials Y.A.N.A (the name of the Master's penultimate incarnation).
I plead guilty to the wrong initials, but my point is forget the initials and just say flat out "You're going to go to the end of the universe and meet this nice old man named Yana. He's really the master only he doesn't know it yet."
Of course FOB probably knew something we don't and why it was necessary for the Doctor to allow the whole thing to happen.
Why dont we just assume that Jack is FOB untill proven wrong. Its the most obvious solution and RTD has already said that it isn't decided whether or not Jack will be him or not.
Besides the brigadier, the Doctor, and Rose,
multiple Jacks have existed in the same time period more than once. When they had the Cardiff earthquake, still mortal Jack was working on the Tardis when the rift blew. Immortal Jack was running Torchwood at the same time. I understand that immortal Jack put TW on lockdown so no one would go out for an ice lolly and run into young Jack and ask him what on earth had he done with his hair, thereby messing up the timeline.:)
(Jack's not getting older. He's getting better. Looking, anyway)
Also, as we have seen, at one point there were numerous Jacks in the WW2 era. Jack the conman, Jack who lived through and fought in world war two, Jack with Tosh, and Jack in the box. (icebox) At all times at least two of them were in the same time period, and at two points, 3 of them. The latter occupied the same time coordinates with TW Jack from 1902 till last spring.
Isn't it explained that Jack is immortal until such a time that he's not. That's poor English but doesn't the Doctor tell him that he doesn't know why he can't die, just that he can't and that he will one day possibly when he's done what needs to be done.
Capnm, I'm sure it has never been confirmed that Jack is immortal. Just that he currently can't die. Now I'm sure at one point the Doctor and Jack had a conversation on the lines of -
Jack; Am I ever gonna die?
Doctor; I don't know.
So I think Jack is the FoB, but I'm just a newbie.
Comments
Hmm maybe. "Wibbly-wobbly timey-whimey" as the Doctor says. However, the F.O.B's revelation only helped the Doctor identify the master, it didn't help him defeat him. If the Doctor hadn't known who he was, and had just followed the Master back to earth then he could still have learned that he was the Master, when the Master bought up the time war.
Even if he had told him everything that was to happen, it wouldn't matter as the Doctor would still have stopped it in the same amount of time, at the same time, regardless.
Everything Dies, Everything Must come to an end..
I still think he is, There is no reason they would put that in, if it wasnt true what would be the point.!!
Are you serious?!!
Listen to how The Queen's accent has changed over the last 60 years. Multiply by a few hundred million. Really?! :rolleyes:
What actually happened is a pre-destination paradox - Jack saw YANA so told The Doctor who twigged about YANA which Jack saw... Straws...clutching...
Could the master have been used to trick the audience in order to surprise them with something else later on...
This is something that some people can't seem to grasp. Just because Jack says he can't die doesn't mean he can't. He just hasn't worked out how yet! And he says he doesn't age, but it's only been a couple of hundred years so far (at most), which relative to the billions of years FOB exists is nothing. I even seem to recall him mentioning he'd developed a couple of grey hairs in an episode last year, which should be a clue in itself that all is not quite as black and white as he likes to think. :rolleyes:
But doesn't the not being able to die thing come from him being "a fixed point in time" or something I think the doctor called him?
That's different to being immortal surely?
After living a billion years I think he'd finally work out that putting himself through a mincer then having someone split the bits up and blast them into the heart of an exploding supernova might just do the trick, or if he's squeamish he might find a better way because unless he doesn't he'll be stuck all alone awaiting the heat death of the universe when all the stars have burnt out and he's the only one left for all eternity.
I wonder whether the whole point is that Jack can't be killed, but can actually choose to die?
I think the whole point is FOB was a late choice that wasn't in the original thinking. Retrospective continuity arguments are doomed to fail most logic tests, you can only take serious account of new evidence from the moment the decision was made to add this idea.
He realised he couldn't call himself the Doctor if he was to help his younger self, so he changed his name to the Face Of Boe, as Jack (the other immortal) was known as that.
Or <cheeky mode on> he put his memories into a "fob" watch like before, thinking at the time... "hmm, fob. F.O.B. Face Of Boe! That'll do! I'll remember that I'm sure!".
Perhaps not...
1, no
2, no
3, no
I plead guilty to the wrong initials, but my point is forget the initials and just say flat out "You're going to go to the end of the universe and meet this nice old man named Yana. He's really the master only he doesn't know it yet."
Of course FOB probably knew something we don't and why it was necessary for the Doctor to allow the whole thing to happen.
multiple Jacks have existed in the same time period more than once. When they had the Cardiff earthquake, still mortal Jack was working on the Tardis when the rift blew. Immortal Jack was running Torchwood at the same time. I understand that immortal Jack put TW on lockdown so no one would go out for an ice lolly and run into young Jack and ask him what on earth had he done with his hair, thereby messing up the timeline.:)
(Jack's not getting older. He's getting better. Looking, anyway)
Also, as we have seen, at one point there were numerous Jacks in the WW2 era. Jack the conman, Jack who lived through and fought in world war two, Jack with Tosh, and Jack in the box. (icebox) At all times at least two of them were in the same time period, and at two points, 3 of them. The latter occupied the same time coordinates with TW Jack from 1902 till last spring.
Or am I mistaken?
Jack; Am I ever gonna die?
Doctor; I don't know.
So I think Jack is the FoB, but I'm just a newbie.