There are actually good reasons for this, and again its down to Apples relationship with the american cell providers.
Making a HD game on iPad makes it massively bigger compared to an iPhone version which makes it way too big to be able to be downloaded on cell. By only being able to download an app on wifi greatly reduces the likeliness of download.
Ah right. I hate that restriction. But with all the fuss over in-app purchases, I can't see it being lifted because its a similar thing. People would accidentally use their entire data allowance and then blame Apple.
Personally, I think they could easily move to a middle ground. Leave the restriction enabled by default but with an option to disable it, and then a pop-up warning if an app is over the usual limit. 50MB is nothing these days.
Ah right. I hate that restriction. But with all the fuss over in-app purchases, I can't see it being lifted because its a similar thing. People would accidentally use their entire data allowance and then blame Apple.
Personally, I think they could easily move to a middle ground. Leave the restriction enabled by default but with an option to disable it, and then a pop-up warning if an app is over the usual limit. 50MB is nothing these days.
I agree from the UK, but the US still has a terrible cell infrastructure with absolutely crap to nonexistent competition between the networks. I cant see it happening for years. Sad really, because the US is so behind europe.
We sit here with unlimited awesome video streaming 3G capability, and the US cant download a 51MB app!
I've already agreed pages ago that savings can be made.
All I've ever done is wonder just how great those savings are.
The discussion, AFAICT, has gone like this, paraphrased, with A and B to denote the two sides of the discussion...
A. Having multiple stores is much better.
B. Why is it?
A. Because apps will often cost less on different stores. I've saved £70 by shopping around.
B. True, but that doesn't mean they'll always be cheaper than on iOS, or that you've saved £70 compared to the same apps on iOS. And you'd need to buy an awful lot of apps to save £70.
At that point what could have been:
A. Fair enough, but any saving is better than no saving.
B. Agreed.
End of discussion.
But was actually:
B. That makes no sense. You're an idiot.
A. Yes it does. No I'm not. And this is why.
B. That makes no sense. You're an idiot. Why do you think having only one store is better?
A. Yes it does. No I'm not. And no, I didn't say anything about having only one store being better.
B. Stop moving the goalposts.
etc etc
On more than one occasion you have suggested people have failed to grasp the points you are making. Perhaps the fault is not in other people, but in your ability to communicate your argument.
On more than one occasion you have suggested people have failed to grasp the points you are making. Perhaps the fault is not in other people, but in your ability to communicate your argument.
Its a great line, but a couple of points. I don't think I could have been much clearer. And people haven't tended to bother to say which part they haven't got, but instead have just replied along the lines of 'That's stupid. You're an idiot.' So I wouldn't be convinced it was me who wasn't communicating very well.
Maybe if you posted a couple of examples, rather than just trot out your line above which might sound good, but might not hold up to much scrutiny.
It is you who doesn't seem to get what I'm saying, which is that the total savings you make won't necessarily be the same as the savings you would have made if there was only one store.
The only thing that has been truly beyond belief in this thread is your inability to read and understand what people have been saying.
frustrated that people are not getting what you are saying, and its not just on one occasion/thread. I'm just suggesting that perhaps the fault is not wholly with them.
I've already agreed pages ago that savings can be made.
All I've ever done is wonder just how great those savings are.
The discussion, AFAICT, has gone like this, paraphrased, with A and B to denote the two sides of the discussion...
A. Having multiple stores is much better.
B. Why is it?
A. Because apps will often cost less on different stores. I've saved £70 by shopping around.
B. True, but that doesn't mean they'll always be cheaper than on iOS, or that you've saved £70 compared to the same apps on iOS. And you'd need to buy an awful lot of apps to save £70.
However putting a counter argument to why something may not be better without substantiating it is not really a counter argument.
If you accept prices within your chosen ecosystem are the prices a way to save on the rrp is an advantage regardless of the respective prices of ios and android.
Your argument at point B is no different to say dismissing any point you make by saying "yeah but Android is better" without any substantiation of why.
its not a case of posting examples. You're the one that says stuff like:
frustrated that people are not getting what you are saying, and its not just on one occasion/thread. I'm just suggesting that perhaps the fault is not wholly with them.
Yes, it has been frustrating.
That its been frustrating, doesn't mean I haven't explained things clearly.
And yes - if you're going to level something at someone, be prepared to put your money where your mouth is with examples.
However putting a counter argument to why something may not be better without substantiating it is not really a counter argument.
If you accept prices within your chosen ecosystem are the prices a way to save on the rrp is an advantage regardless of the respective prices of ios and android.
Your argument at point B is no different to say dismissing any point you make by saying "yeah but Android is better" without any substantiation of why.
That is the problem people have with you.
If the argument was:
"Having multiple stores is better than having a single store, and I've saved £70 by shopping around which demonstrates that."
Then it is perfectly valid to point out that that figure of £70 is loaded, because its likely that not all of that £70 would have been saved by virtue of having access to multiple stores.
It was substantiated with the reasoning that although an app might cost less in one Android store compared to another, it won't always necessarily have been cheaper than it was on iOS.
I think where you go wrong is that you interpret anything that doesn't 100% agree with you as someone saying "Apple is better" or "Android isn't better", when that may not actually be the case.
In this case, it is what is - that any savings made by Android users shopping around most likely won't be the same as savings made by Android users compared to Apple users.
Yet again you say things such as likely .... if your going to counter something provide evidence why you think it is not the case.
Anyone can make a random counter arguments without proving any facts such as you do. If you think the savings woukd not be the same in comparison to ios show it. Take your own advice just given to Mr Brock and put your money where your mouth is until then nothing you say is evidence or proof of anything just your own random musings on the issue.
However my money is on yet more "you just dont get it" posts
"Having multiple stores is better than having a single store, and I've saved £70 by shopping around which demonstrates that."
then pointing out that that figure of £70 is loaded, because its likely that not all of that £70 would have been saved by virtue of having access to multiple stores, is perfectly valid.
I think where you go wrong is that you interpret anything that doesn't 100% agree with you as someone saying "Apple is better" or "Android isn't better", when that may not actually be the case.
In this case, it is what is - that any savings made by Android users shopping around most likely won't be the same as savings made by Android users compared to Apple users.
You do tend to go on and on and on about proving figures.
Savings CAN be made by shopping around app stores, same with music and movie downloads. Are they huge individually ? most of the time probably not. Do I spend ages shopping around ? No. But then I dont buy tesco value beans - but plenty do to save those few extra pennies.
Having multiple markets can only be a good thing. Those who want simplicity and arent bothered about saving stick with the Play store. Those that want to grab a 'bargain' can shop around. I doubt even you can claim that this isnt better than the Apple route .... ???
Apple have one store. There is a fixed price for Apple apps as there is no competition. That means people cant shop around even if they want to.
With Android you get the 'Apple' option of sticking with the default 'built in' store OR you can go further afield if you want.
Choice (including the choice to 'not bother') has to be better than a single option
If you genuinely believe differently then please explain but dont keep harping back to the £70 :rolleyes:
You could save £70 if you wanted to but it might take some time.
Yet again you say things such as likely .... if your going to counter something provide evidence why you think it is not the case.
Anyone can make a random counter arguments without proving any facts such as you do. If you think the savings woukd not be the same in comparison to ios show it. Take your own advice just given to Mr Brock and put your money where your mouth is until then nothing you say is evidence or proof of anything just your own random musings on the issue.
However my money is on yet more "you just dont get it" posts
Sorry, I forget sometimes that everything needs to be backed up by empirical evidence.
So isn't it likely that, for example, an app's lowest price could be from Apple / one Android store, and at a higher price than both on a different Android store?
Or would that never happen?
Whether it does or doesn't, it seems perfectly reasonable to think that it probably does. So when I have suggested or queried that, whatever else, it hasn't been idiotic or made no sense.
Perhaps it would help if you ever explained why you thought it wasn't likely, instead of getting hung up on the use of the word "likely" and the lack of empirical evidence, and all the accompanying barbed comments.
You do tend to go on and on and on about proving figures.
Savings CAN be made by shopping around app stores, same with music and movie downloads. Are they huge individually ? most of the time probably not. Do I spend ages shopping around ? No. But then I dont buy tesco value beans - but plenty do to save those few extra pennies.
Having multiple markets can only be a good thing. Those who want simplicity and arent bothered about saving stick with the Play store. Those that want to grab a 'bargain' can shop around. I doubt even you can claim that this isnt better than the Apple route .... ???
Apple have one store. There is a fixed price for Apple apps as there is no competition. That means people cant shop around even if they want to.
With Android you get the 'Apple' option of sticking with the default 'built in' store OR you can go further afield if you want.
Choice (including the choice to 'not bother') has to be better than a single option
If you genuinely believe differently then please explain but dont keep harping back to the £70 :rolleyes:
You could save £70 if you wanted to but it might take some time.
I've never said anything different.
All I've said is that:
A. Saving £70 between different Android stores
probably isn't the same as
B. Saving £70 between the cheapest Android price, and the iOS price.
If you genuinely believe differently then please explain why.
B. Saving £70 between the cheapest Android price, and the iOS price.
If you genuinely believe differently then please explain why.
I really dont understand the relevance of the last point ???
I could list a lot of apps that are free on Android but paid on iOS (and there are probably many the other way round too). Many apps have different income routes on the two platforms, adverts, in-game purchases etc.
So, are we in agreement that multiple stores is better ?
With regards to iOS vs Play if you totted up the costs of all the Angry Birds games on itunes vs the free ones on Play you could save a fair whack ! (although i notice now that Android also has paid ad-free options too - choice - great eh )
So are we also in agreement that some apps might be significantly cheaper on one platform than another ?
This really has to be the most banal argument in a thread of pretty banal arguments
Well multiple apps stores allow an android user to make savings which is good. The app store is more expensive than Android stores so better there as well so point made... All sorted.
So the original argument involved comparing Android to iOS.
But now you're saying to forget iOS.
No it didn't!!
It started when someone said having more than 1 app store on Android was a good idea which i agreed with saying i made some savings, to which you and kiddo pounced on calling rubbish then coming out with bizarre analogies to prove your points.
It started when someone said having more than 1 app store on Android was a good idea which i agreed with saying i made some savings, to which you and kiddo pounced on calling rubbish then coming out with bizarre analogies to prove your points.
I'd be pretty sure I didn't pounce on anything as "rubbish", but simply queried a. how common it was for apps to be cheaper on Android compared to iOS, and also how common it was for apps to vary much in price.
At which point, from where I was standing, people pounced on me about why I thought Apple was better, or multiple stores was a disadvantage.
When I'd said neither of those things.
And Mr Cool said it didn't happen 99.9% of the time, which didn't exactly help.
I'd be pretty sure I didn't pounce on anything as "rubbish", but simply queried a. how common it was for apps to be cheaper on Android compared to iOS, and also how common it was for apps to vary much in price.
At which point, from where I was standing, people pounced on me about why I thought Apple was better, or multiple stores was a disadvantage.
When I'd said neither of those things.
And Mr Cool said it didn't happen 99.9% of the time, which didn't exactly help.
Well if thats what is being debated then there are a number of apps that are free on Android (making money from ads) but have a purchase cost on iOS. No im not going to list them (apart from the Angry Birds apps already named).
EDIT: on a lighter note I see that Apple shares are below $400 ....... thats a pretty severe plummet over the last few months :eek:
I'd be pretty sure I didn't pounce on anything as "rubbish", but simply queried a. how common it was for apps to be cheaper on Android compared to iOS, and also how common it was for apps to vary much in price.
At which point, from where I was standing, people pounced on me about why I thought Apple was better, or multiple stores was a disadvantage.
When I'd said neither of those things.
And Mr Cool said it didn't happen 99.9% of the time, which didn't exactly help.
By carrying on querying it you are in fact calling other peoples views on this nonsense. Then by adding pointless analogies you are continuing this like it or not.
Again with iOS!! No one cares! We are arguing about the savings on Android and how its beneficial to people to have these stores. iOS doesn't have this so why do you keep bringing it into the argument?
I'd be pretty sure I didn't pounce on anything as "rubbish", but simply queried a. how common it was for apps to be cheaper on Android compared to iOS, and also how common it was for apps to vary much in price.
Plus with all those apps you have to buy twice for the ipad as well very unlikely to be cheaper
By carrying on querying it you are in fact calling other peoples views on this nonsense. Then by adding pointless analogies you are continuing this like it or not.
Again with iOS!! No one cares! We are arguing about the savings on Android and how its beneficial to people to have these stores. iOS doesn't have this so why do you keep bringing it into the argument?
To be honest, I'm not sure I've been continually querying it so much as wondering why it was originally met with such hostility.
And again, it seems strange now to want to ignore iOS, when in its original context this was about a comparison between the two.
Comments
Ah right. I hate that restriction. But with all the fuss over in-app purchases, I can't see it being lifted because its a similar thing. People would accidentally use their entire data allowance and then blame Apple.
Personally, I think they could easily move to a middle ground. Leave the restriction enabled by default but with an option to disable it, and then a pop-up warning if an app is over the usual limit. 50MB is nothing these days.
I agree from the UK, but the US still has a terrible cell infrastructure with absolutely crap to nonexistent competition between the networks. I cant see it happening for years. Sad really, because the US is so behind europe.
We sit here with unlimited awesome video streaming 3G capability, and the US cant download a 51MB app!
On more than one occasion you have suggested people have failed to grasp the points you are making. Perhaps the fault is not in other people, but in your ability to communicate your argument.
Its a great line, but a couple of points. I don't think I could have been much clearer. And people haven't tended to bother to say which part they haven't got, but instead have just replied along the lines of 'That's stupid. You're an idiot.' So I wouldn't be convinced it was me who wasn't communicating very well.
Maybe if you posted a couple of examples, rather than just trot out your line above which might sound good, but might not hold up to much scrutiny.
its not a case of posting examples. You're the one that says stuff like:
frustrated that people are not getting what you are saying, and its not just on one occasion/thread. I'm just suggesting that perhaps the fault is not wholly with them.
However putting a counter argument to why something may not be better without substantiating it is not really a counter argument.
If you accept prices within your chosen ecosystem are the prices a way to save on the rrp is an advantage regardless of the respective prices of ios and android.
Your argument at point B is no different to say dismissing any point you make by saying "yeah but Android is better" without any substantiation of why.
That is the problem people have with you.
Yes, it has been frustrating.
That its been frustrating, doesn't mean I haven't explained things clearly.
And yes - if you're going to level something at someone, be prepared to put your money where your mouth is with examples.
If the argument was:
"Having multiple stores is better than having a single store, and I've saved £70 by shopping around which demonstrates that."
Then it is perfectly valid to point out that that figure of £70 is loaded, because its likely that not all of that £70 would have been saved by virtue of having access to multiple stores.
It was substantiated with the reasoning that although an app might cost less in one Android store compared to another, it won't always necessarily have been cheaper than it was on iOS.
I think where you go wrong is that you interpret anything that doesn't 100% agree with you as someone saying "Apple is better" or "Android isn't better", when that may not actually be the case.
In this case, it is what is - that any savings made by Android users shopping around most likely won't be the same as savings made by Android users compared to Apple users.
For reference, would you say the above post was clear enough, or if not, which part wasn't?
Anyone can make a random counter arguments without proving any facts such as you do. If you think the savings woukd not be the same in comparison to ios show it. Take your own advice just given to Mr Brock and put your money where your mouth is until then nothing you say is evidence or proof of anything just your own random musings on the issue.
However my money is on yet more "you just dont get it" posts
You do tend to go on and on and on about proving figures.
Savings CAN be made by shopping around app stores, same with music and movie downloads. Are they huge individually ? most of the time probably not. Do I spend ages shopping around ? No. But then I dont buy tesco value beans - but plenty do to save those few extra pennies.
Having multiple markets can only be a good thing. Those who want simplicity and arent bothered about saving stick with the Play store. Those that want to grab a 'bargain' can shop around. I doubt even you can claim that this isnt better than the Apple route .... ???
Apple have one store. There is a fixed price for Apple apps as there is no competition. That means people cant shop around even if they want to.
With Android you get the 'Apple' option of sticking with the default 'built in' store OR you can go further afield if you want.
Choice (including the choice to 'not bother') has to be better than a single option
If you genuinely believe differently then please explain but dont keep harping back to the £70 :rolleyes:
You could save £70 if you wanted to but it might take some time.
Sorry, I forget sometimes that everything needs to be backed up by empirical evidence.
So isn't it likely that, for example, an app's lowest price could be from Apple / one Android store, and at a higher price than both on a different Android store?
Or would that never happen?
Whether it does or doesn't, it seems perfectly reasonable to think that it probably does. So when I have suggested or queried that, whatever else, it hasn't been idiotic or made no sense.
Perhaps it would help if you ever explained why you thought it wasn't likely, instead of getting hung up on the use of the word "likely" and the lack of empirical evidence, and all the accompanying barbed comments.
I've never said anything different.
All I've said is that:
A. Saving £70 between different Android stores
probably isn't the same as
B. Saving £70 between the cheapest Android price, and the iOS price.
If you genuinely believe differently then please explain why.
Oh Jesus, please stop with the iOS. It makes no sense to include it since they don't have lower prices nor do they have a separate app store.
Multiple Android stores can save money. That's it.
Right.
So the original argument involved comparing Android to iOS.
But now you're saying to forget iOS.
I really dont understand the relevance of the last point ???
I could list a lot of apps that are free on Android but paid on iOS (and there are probably many the other way round too). Many apps have different income routes on the two platforms, adverts, in-game purchases etc.
So, are we in agreement that multiple stores is better ?
With regards to iOS vs Play if you totted up the costs of all the Angry Birds games on itunes vs the free ones on Play you could save a fair whack ! (although i notice now that Android also has paid ad-free options too - choice - great eh
So are we also in agreement that some apps might be significantly cheaper on one platform than another ?
This really has to be the most banal argument in a thread of pretty banal arguments
Savings can be made. Savings are good.
No it didn't!!
It started when someone said having more than 1 app store on Android was a good idea which i agreed with saying i made some savings, to which you and kiddo pounced on calling rubbish then coming out with bizarre analogies to prove your points.
I'd be pretty sure I didn't pounce on anything as "rubbish", but simply queried a. how common it was for apps to be cheaper on Android compared to iOS, and also how common it was for apps to vary much in price.
At which point, from where I was standing, people pounced on me about why I thought Apple was better, or multiple stores was a disadvantage.
When I'd said neither of those things.
And Mr Cool said it didn't happen 99.9% of the time, which didn't exactly help.
Well if thats what is being debated then there are a number of apps that are free on Android (making money from ads) but have a purchase cost on iOS. No im not going to list them (apart from the Angry Birds apps already named).
EDIT: on a lighter note I see that Apple shares are below $400 ....... thats a pretty severe plummet over the last few months :eek:
By carrying on querying it you are in fact calling other peoples views on this nonsense. Then by adding pointless analogies you are continuing this like it or not.
Again with iOS!! No one cares! We are arguing about the savings on Android and how its beneficial to people to have these stores. iOS doesn't have this so why do you keep bringing it into the argument?
Plus with all those apps you have to buy twice for the ipad as well very unlikely to be cheaper
To be honest, I'm not sure I've been continually querying it so much as wondering why it was originally met with such hostility.
And again, it seems strange now to want to ignore iOS, when in its original context this was about a comparison between the two.
1. Which apps? 2. I didn't say anything about iOS apps being cheaper.
Theres not a cat in hells chance that iOS apps are overall cheaper than android!