In reply to your last post to me, I'm now pointing out your last para as to my response.
Greece is in no way responsible for any of this regardless of how they have responded to day to day issues as a consequences of EU dictats.
Greece is being bullied into submission. Greece's responses are not freely given. It's all based on fear.
I do apologise if I'm not clear on that. I just can't for the life of me see Greece responsible for this crisis which to me was created way back in the first place by the EU by creating a single currency not suitable to all countries in the EU.
Greece was over-borrowing and over-spending LONG BEFORE the Euro. IIRC They started bloating their public sector workforce etc back in 1981.
From 2010
And there were 14 pension month payments each year at that time.
From 2011
20 years earlier than 2010 would be 1990, 10 years BEFORE joining the Euro.
BIB. So what?
They were not part of a single currency which now leaves them with very little choices to Govern their own country.
Greece would not be the first country to be in debt, EVER. But at least under their own currency, they would not be in the position they are being forced into now.
In reply to your last post to me, I'm now pointing out your last para as to my response.
Greece is in no way responsible for any of this regardless of how they have responded to day to day issues as a consequences of EU dictats.
Greece is being bullied into submission. Greece's responses are not freely given. It's all based on fear.
I do apologise if I'm not clear on that. I just can't for the life of me see Greece responsible for this crisis which to me was created way back in the first place by the EU by creating a single currency not suitable to all countries in the EU.
Sorry if I misunderstood you.
Difference of opinion, I suppose.
For me, the EU can (and does) seek to bully all it wants. If nations are too weak or brainless to not cave in, they are wholly responsible. If an economic dimwit like me can understand devalue-inflation-recovery, what the hell hope is their for a sovereign nation that can't?
If an economic dimwit like me can understand devalue-inflation-recovery, what the hell hope is their for a sovereign nation that can't?
Sometimes it's the difference between knowing what needs doing and being able to do it. But again that's politics. So politicians may have wanted to implement pension reforms. Unions say 'No' and strike, or threaten strikes. Public sector in Greece is large and influential, so politicians can't necessarily implement policy. This is still the challenge with forcing the new austerity proposals through.
Like SULLA, I predict a riot as the Greeks start to realise just what being in the EU is going to cost them.
"This goes beyond harsh into pure vindictiveness."
Greece is being treated like a hostile occupied state
"A new deal for Athens is the worst of all worlds and solves nothing"
The cruel capitulation forced upon Greece after 31 hours on the diplomatic rack offers no conceivable way out of the country’s perpetual crisis. The terms are harsher by a full order of magnitude than those rejected by Greek voters in a landslide referendum a week ago, and therefore can never command democratic assent.
[...]
Such terms are unenforceable. The creditors have sought to nail down the new memorandum by transferring €50bn of Greek assets to “an independent fund that will monetise the assets through privatisations and other means”. It will be used in part to pay off debts.
This fund will be under EU "supervision". The cosmetic niceties of sovereignty will be preserved by letting the Greek authorities manage its day to day affairs. Nobody is fooled...
Montagu Norman was governor of the Bank of England (1920-1944). In a 1924 speech to american bankers he said
“Capital must protect itself in every possible way, both by combination and legislation. Debts must be collected, mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible.
When, through process of law, the common people lose their homes, they will become more docile and more easily governed through the strong arm of the government applied by a central power of wealth under leading financiers.
These truths are well known among our principal men, who are now engaged in forming an imperialism to govern the world. By dividing the voter through the political party system, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting for questions of no importance.
It is thus, by discrete action, we can secure for ourselves that which has been so well planned and so successfully accomplished.”
For me, the EU can (and does) seek to bully all it wants. If nations are too weak or brainless to not cave in, they are wholly responsible. If an economic dimwit like me can understand devalue-inflation-recovery, what the hell hope is their for a sovereign nation that can't?
Trouble is, if a country is part of the EU and those in Brussels decide to create a single currency, what does this Nation do?
If they are not used to countries like France, Germany and a few others who have ceretain rules regarding economics that they have been used to for many years (e.g., industrial), they may not have the expertise or experience to know the difference. Couple that with Brussels telling all the EU countries that basically this is the way the EU is going, then it is very hard how to deal with.
Call it naivety or innocence. but, is it naivety and innocence not to have a culture that is totally different to an industrial country?
Would it not simply boil down to a different culture which is every country's right and is what makes them unique and which is also the beauty of different cultures?
Greece has to push a series of austerity demands through parliament by this Wednesday in order to unlock a fresh multi-billion euro bail-out. Here's what the deal looks like:
In order to unlock a fresh €82bn to €86bn bail-out, Greece has until Wednesday to pass laws that:
• implement VAT hikes
• cut pensions
• take steps to ensure the independence of Greece's statistics office is maintained
• put measures in place to automatically slash spending if Greece fails to meet its targets on primary surpluses (revenue minus expenditure excluding debt servicing costs)
It has until July 22 (an extra week compared with a draft statement) to:
• overhaul its civil justice system
• implement the Bank Recovery and Resolution Directive (BRRD) to bring bank resolution laws in line with the rest of the EU
Greek MPs will also have to stomach a move to sell off €50bn of Greek assets...
So what should have they done? There were two bailouts already and they brought absolutely nothing. They have to do things differently now. There's clientelism and corruption in Greece, which has to be dealt with. Apparently hairdresser is a risky job and you can retire sooner. Why is that? I am 100% sure it's because a family member of some MP is a hairdresser and they wanted to enjoy their pension sooner. And if not a family member then a grandfather's childhood friend. And that's just one daily fact from Greece. Advantages for family and friends at the state's expense. Law created to suit individuals. Can you imagine something like that in another European country? BTW, what about phone sanitizers, isn't that a risky job, too?
Hopefully the German tax payer will wake up and realise what a shite Government they have.
Not so long ago after one big hell of a mess in Europe, Germany was bailed out.
Hmmm
They were prepared to work hard and they did. In Greece it would only delay the Big Bang. Just like SCD, keeeep dancing! Things have to change, real reforms have to be introduced. They can always have their debts reduced if the situation is changing for the better. And of course they can always refuse the EU money and try to solve their problems themselves. Not with that bunch of cowboys in the government though.
Are the Greeks experiencing a form of collective Stockholming?
after 5 years of austerity 70% still want to be in the euro
its very odd
A guy whose company conducts major opinion polls in Greece said yesterday that the public there are "completely irrational".....voting against austerity but everyone wanting to remain part of the Eurozone. He says he can't make head or tail of what people actually want.
They were prepared to work hard and they did. In Greece it would only delay the Big Bang. Just like SCD, keeeep dancing! Things have to change, real reforms have to be introduced. They can always have their debts reduced if the situation is changing for the better. And of course they can always refuse the EU money and try to solve their problems themselves. Not with that bunch of cowboys in the government though.
Why should the Greek people have to behave like the German people?
Are you serious??
They are two different country's. Two different cultures. Two different histories.
What has it come to where some folk discount the rights of a Democratic Sovereign Nation in favour of dictorship?
That is the real reality of all this. Make no mistake.
Listen to yourself. Look at what you are saying.
Please don'r lose your senses in this stupid nonsense coming from Brussels.
Greek civil servants union calls for a 24hr strike on Wednesday, the day the parliament has to legislate the new reforms. Don't think Tsipras envisaged protests against his government when he was eyeing up the top job back in January.
A guy whose company conducts major opinion polls in Greece said yesterday that the public there are "completely irrational".....voting against austerity but everyone wanting to remain part of the Eurozone. He says he can't make head or tail of what people actually want.
Yes. People who are threatened and constantly in fear usually behave irrationally.
A guy whose company conducts major opinion polls in Greece said yesterday that the public there are "completely irrational".....voting against austerity but everyone wanting to remain part of the Eurozone. He says he can't make head or tail of what people actually want.
i always asay its like people on benefits
they get so used to the lifestyle of being dependent on the state with the money coming into their accounts every week they dont know anything else
and in way are scared of doing things for themselves
Comments
its totally greeces fault
they should have just defaulted and left the euro
but no they still want to be part of the euro
so bend over stellios and take it like a man
BIB. So what?
They were not part of a single currency which now leaves them with very little choices to Govern their own country.
Greece would not be the first country to be in debt, EVER. But at least under their own currency, they would not be in the position they are being forced into now.
Your point does not apply. Sorry.
after 5 years of austerity 70% still want to be in the euro
its very odd
Difference of opinion, I suppose.
For me, the EU can (and does) seek to bully all it wants. If nations are too weak or brainless to not cave in, they are wholly responsible. If an economic dimwit like me can understand devalue-inflation-recovery, what the hell hope is their for a sovereign nation that can't?
Odd? Try bloody lunacy.
Sometimes it's the difference between knowing what needs doing and being able to do it. But again that's politics. So politicians may have wanted to implement pension reforms. Unions say 'No' and strike, or threaten strikes. Public sector in Greece is large and influential, so politicians can't necessarily implement policy. This is still the challenge with forcing the new austerity proposals through.
Like SULLA, I predict a riot as the Greeks start to realise just what being in the EU is going to cost them.
They're equally fools for trusting each other - both should take their share of the blame for the situation they've caused.
Privatising electricity will be a tough one for them.
I've made a mess of my quotes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11736779/Greece-is-being-treated-like-a-hostile-occupied-state.html
"This goes beyond harsh into pure vindictiveness."
Greece is being treated like a hostile occupied state
"A new deal for Athens is the worst of all worlds and solves nothing"
The cruel capitulation forced upon Greece after 31 hours on the diplomatic rack offers no conceivable way out of the country’s perpetual crisis. The terms are harsher by a full order of magnitude than those rejected by Greek voters in a landslide referendum a week ago, and therefore can never command democratic assent.
[...]
Such terms are unenforceable. The creditors have sought to nail down the new memorandum by transferring €50bn of Greek assets to “an independent fund that will monetise the assets through privatisations and other means”. It will be used in part to pay off debts.
This fund will be under EU "supervision". The cosmetic niceties of sovereignty will be preserved by letting the Greek authorities manage its day to day affairs. Nobody is fooled...
“Capital must protect itself in every possible way, both by combination and legislation. Debts must be collected, mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible.
When, through process of law, the common people lose their homes, they will become more docile and more easily governed through the strong arm of the government applied by a central power of wealth under leading financiers.
These truths are well known among our principal men, who are now engaged in forming an imperialism to govern the world. By dividing the voter through the political party system, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting for questions of no importance.
It is thus, by discrete action, we can secure for ourselves that which has been so well planned and so successfully accomplished.”
A very sinister warning from history. https://forumnews.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/the-ultimate-bankster-quote-from-a-former-governor-of-the-bank-of-england-1920-1944/
Trouble is, if a country is part of the EU and those in Brussels decide to create a single currency, what does this Nation do?
If they are not used to countries like France, Germany and a few others who have ceretain rules regarding economics that they have been used to for many years (e.g., industrial), they may not have the expertise or experience to know the difference. Couple that with Brussels telling all the EU countries that basically this is the way the EU is going, then it is very hard how to deal with.
Call it naivety or innocence. but, is it naivety and innocence not to have a culture that is totally different to an industrial country?
Would it not simply boil down to a different culture which is every country's right and is what makes them unique and which is also the beauty of different cultures?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11735674/Greece-deal-explained-Whats-in-the-new-deal-and-how-it-compares-to-the-old-one.html
Greece has to push a series of austerity demands through parliament by this Wednesday in order to unlock a fresh multi-billion euro bail-out. Here's what the deal looks like:
In order to unlock a fresh €82bn to €86bn bail-out, Greece has until Wednesday to pass laws that:
• implement VAT hikes
• cut pensions
• take steps to ensure the independence of Greece's statistics office is maintained
• put measures in place to automatically slash spending if Greece fails to meet its targets on primary surpluses (revenue minus expenditure excluding debt servicing costs)
It has until July 22 (an extra week compared with a draft statement) to:
• overhaul its civil justice system
• implement the Bank Recovery and Resolution Directive (BRRD) to bring bank resolution laws in line with the rest of the EU
Greek MPs will also have to stomach a move to sell off €50bn of Greek assets...
Hopefully the German tax payer will wake up and realise what a shite Government they have.
Not so long ago after one big hell of a mess in Europe, Germany was bailed out.
Hmmm
They were prepared to work hard and they did. In Greece it would only delay the Big Bang. Just like SCD, keeeep dancing! Things have to change, real reforms have to be introduced. They can always have their debts reduced if the situation is changing for the better. And of course they can always refuse the EU money and try to solve their problems themselves. Not with that bunch of cowboys in the government though.
A guy whose company conducts major opinion polls in Greece said yesterday that the public there are "completely irrational".....voting against austerity but everyone wanting to remain part of the Eurozone. He says he can't make head or tail of what people actually want.
Why should the Greek people have to behave like the German people?
Are you serious??
They are two different country's. Two different cultures. Two different histories.
What has it come to where some folk discount the rights of a Democratic Sovereign Nation in favour of dictorship?
That is the real reality of all this. Make no mistake.
Listen to yourself. Look at what you are saying.
Please don'r lose your senses in this stupid nonsense coming from Brussels.
Yes. People who are threatened and constantly in fear usually behave irrationally.
i always asay its like people on benefits
they get so used to the lifestyle of being dependent on the state with the money coming into their accounts every week they dont know anything else
and in way are scared of doing things for themselves
sad really, people are such sheep