If folk don't wake up to what's going on here, they will regret it for many years even if they have their own means to survive in the Euro for a couple of years or so.
What is at the heart of this and playing out quite nicely for all to see, is, how far those in Brussels are prepared to go to create a United States of Europe and destroying the natural process of individual country's existing.
Nothing wrong with a common market. Noting wrong with Europe having a common defence system etc etc etc. But to dictate to other countries how they should evolve their individual cultures that have existed for centuries as if it is their right, is nothing short of dictorship. And who the f*ck are these individuals anyway? They are not even elected by the people to do so.
Folk can chatter on about this "Greek crisis" which in reality was created by those in Brussels, but don't forget the underlying motives of these people?
They just want power. Sad really.
We have gone through so much for centuries with wars, refugees, starvation and Genocide to allow dictatorship to creep into Europe by the back door.
Stand up and be counted folks. Believe in your own rights of Democracy. Don't be blinded.
Oh please. Don't you know what went on? He was sacrificed as (another) sop to the eurocrats and the Troika.
But again, this wasn't the EU's fault. They had no power over Varoufakis. The only person who could sack him was Greece, or Tsipras in this case.
Greece chose to stay in the Euro and accept the austerity. They're responsible for all this. Whether or not being idiots is mitigating circumstances I don't know. But this is all down to Greece; noone had a gun to their heads.
But again, this wasn't the EU's fault. They had no power over Varoufakis. The only person who could sack him was Greece, or Tsipras in this case.
Greece chose to stay in the Euro and accept the austerity. They're responsible for all this. Whether or not being idiots is mitigating circumstances I don't know. But this is all down to Greece; noone had a gun to their heads.
With respect, please go back to the creation of the Euro.
what i cannot understand about this is the country is they held a referendom on on this weather to in or get out ,they all said get out ,but the gov dicided not go with this & go ahead with bailout,why do i get the impression that this was a waist of time & a kick in the nuts for the greeks . sounds just like are gov & are latest budget>:(
It was supposed to be a weapon against EU to show them that even the nation is against austerity measures that creditors wanted. But instead of giving them money to not leave the EZ, EU said, great, get out then and pay up your debts. Which was not how it was supposed to go.
what i cannot understand about this is the country is they held a referendom on on this weather to in or get out ,they all said get out ,but the gov dicided not go with this & go ahead with bailout,why do i get the impression that this was a waist of time & a kick in the nuts for the greeks . sounds just like are gov & are latest budget>:(
See my earlier post. Even if the whole country goes to rack and ruin the politicians, the civil service and the rest of the state apparatchiks will be protected under this deal, but under Grexit they would be in the same boat as the rest of the country.
And unless I have missed it, where in this agreement is a requirement to change/improve the Greek tax collection regime?
It's in the $50bn asset seizure and privatisation programme. Money that previously went to the Greek treasury will then go safely offshore to those asset's new owners and shareholders-
They will be brought in with the target to privatize those in the coming years, but we will take our time for that.
We then hope for proceeds of EU50 billion, but that will be clear later.
The banks first have to be refinanced from this aid program, but after that I take it that they’re worth money and then we can sell them.
Proceeds from the asset stripping won't go to the Greeks, but to the creditors. Other smaller members of the EU take note..
(wonder if Ukraine's having second thoughts about cosying up to the EU and taking more loans yet?)
It was supposed to be a weapon against EU to show them that even the nation is against austerity measures that creditors wanted. But instead of giving them money to not leave the EZ, EU said, great, get out then and pay up your debts. Which was not how it was supposed to go.
it wasnt
it was tsipras playing politics trying to shift blame but hes a complete amateur
germany called his bluff and so he totally bent over and and said do me now
Tsipras is weak - he should have resigned at the same time.
Nah, it's much easier to 'negotiate' with a weak leader than a strong one. Hence Tsipras being a useful idiot and protected to an extent.. But he still has to get the Greek parliament to agree to the EU's aquisition of a controlling interest in Greece.
it was tsipras playing politics trying to shift blame but hes a complete amateur
germany called his bluff and so he totally bent over and and said do me now
hell be gone in a month
:D:D
Germany has a very very big tough lesson to learn in the coming months/years. They will be very much embarrassed by all this behaviour. They should have learnt their lessons back in the 40s, alas.
Nah, it's much easier to 'negotiate' with a weak leader than a strong one. Hence Tsipras being a useful idiot and protected to an extent.. But he still has to get the Greek parliament to agree to the EU's aquisition of a controlling interest in Greece.
exactly
so after having their economy collapse by 25%
theyre now going to give a way another 25% of GDP
anyone thinking of voting to stay in the EU in 2017
This is like a war between Germany and Greece! Germany doesn't care what damage it gives as long as the EU survives. Can't people now see how Un democratic this episode is!!!
But again, this wasn't the EU's fault. They had no power over Varoufakis. The only person who could sack him was Greece, or Tsipras in this case.
Greece chose to stay in the Euro and accept the austerity. They're responsible for all this. Whether or not being idiots is mitigating circumstances I don't know. But this is all down to Greece; noone had a gun to their heads.
In reply to your last post to me, I'm now pointing out your last para as to my response.
Greece is in no way responsible for any of this regardless of how they have responded to day to day issues as a consequences of EU dictats.
Greece is being bullied into submission. Greece's responses are not freely given. It's all based on fear.
I do apologise if I'm not clear on that. I just can't for the life of me see Greece responsible for this crisis which to me was created way back in the first place by the EU by creating a single currency not suitable to all countries in the EU.
Germany has a very very big tough lesson to learn in the coming months/years. They will be very much embarrassed by all this behaviour. They should have learnt their lessons back in the 40s, alas.
They will be paying a big part of that bill, using their citizens' money. It would be reckless if they did not ask for guarantees, again. That's the lesson learnt. Sometimes it's only about money and not the world domination.
But he still has to get the Greek parliament to agree to the EU's aquisition of a controlling interest in Greece.
Wonder how that will go. Hopefully it won't get through greek parliament. Syriza have 149 of the 300 seats, i think 17 abstained and 1 voted against the current deal Tsipras took to EU. So surely far more will vote against the terrible deal he actually agreed to last night. Presumably a lot will depend on the right wing New Democracy party with their 76 seats and previous record of being one of the old govts that dug the grave that Greece are now in and the recent ruling party who agreed to all EU measures thus far.
The reason why this paltry, in the grand scheme of things, payment is critical is that while continuing to repay the IMF is not an event of default if only purely technically, and for the rating agencies, a non-payment on the Samurai bond would start a cross-default cascade.
So then Greece gets the Venezuelan experience whereby hedge funds who've bought up Greek debt for cents on the dollar (it being 'junk') demand full repayment. And get friendly courts (like the US) to rule the hedge funds are entitled to large profits. It being the American way and all.
With respect, please go back to the creation of the Euro.
Greece was over-borrowing and over-spending LONG BEFORE the Euro. IIRC They started bloating their public sector workforce etc back in 1981.
From 2010
I met Marika Elleni (85), a retired postal worker. Her pension is €3,500 a month. She said: “Not all pensioners have it as good as me.” But should you give part of it up?
And there were 14 pension month payments each year at that time.
From 2011
That’s not to say pensioners will be left unscathed. “The problem is that the 2010 reforms were 20 years too late and didn’t go far enough, says Tinios. Clauses were inserted to protect people due to retire in the next few years. “So people over 50 can see that if they were to retire they would get a better deal than if they stayed at work,” he adds. “As a result you have a very large number of retirement requests.
20 years earlier than 2010 would be 1990, 10 years BEFORE joining the Euro.
They will be paying a big part of that bill, using their citizens' money. It would be reckless if they did not ask for guarantees, again. That's the lesson learnt. Sometimes it's only about money and not the world domination.
Just wait til those German "citizen's" ask their Government what the hell they were thinking of by being the big I AM in helping to create this whole situation in the first place?
"guarantees" are worth nothing only being used to bully another country that has no hope of ever paying this money back AND they (Germany) know it. But, right now, it makes them feel good.
This is like a war between Germany and Greece! Germany doesn't care what damage it gives as long as the EU survives. Can't people now see how Un democratic this episode is!!!
Germany is power hungry and it's dangerous!
Agree. Thats why so many people in politics are predicting this is the beginning of the end of the Euro project. I said on anther thread that i always wanted (very begrudgingly) to stay in EU as it was the least bad of 2 very poor options. But the total lack of democracy where one german man is able to decide the fate of any one of the 28 countries makes it an institution i want nothing to do with. The EU is not democratic whatsoever now, and more importantly is not even a Union due to self interest (to ideologies) being put far above the people of the European Union. Anyone remember when Italy got a euro technocrat made their PM by the EU in 2011?
Comments
If folk don't wake up to what's going on here, they will regret it for many years even if they have their own means to survive in the Euro for a couple of years or so.
What is at the heart of this and playing out quite nicely for all to see, is, how far those in Brussels are prepared to go to create a United States of Europe and destroying the natural process of individual country's existing.
Nothing wrong with a common market. Noting wrong with Europe having a common defence system etc etc etc. But to dictate to other countries how they should evolve their individual cultures that have existed for centuries as if it is their right, is nothing short of dictorship. And who the f*ck are these individuals anyway? They are not even elected by the people to do so.
Folk can chatter on about this "Greek crisis" which in reality was created by those in Brussels, but don't forget the underlying motives of these people?
They just want power. Sad really.
We have gone through so much for centuries with wars, refugees, starvation and Genocide to allow dictatorship to creep into Europe by the back door.
Stand up and be counted folks. Believe in your own rights of Democracy. Don't be blinded.
But again, this wasn't the EU's fault. They had no power over Varoufakis. The only person who could sack him was Greece, or Tsipras in this case.
Greece chose to stay in the Euro and accept the austerity. They're responsible for all this. Whether or not being idiots is mitigating circumstances I don't know. But this is all down to Greece; noone had a gun to their heads.
With respect, please go back to the creation of the Euro.
He was thrown out because he got too arrogant and stronger than Tsipras.
Tsipras is weak - he should have resigned at the same time.
What do you mean, and how does it relate to this being down to Greece?
It was supposed to be a weapon against EU to show them that even the nation is against austerity measures that creditors wanted. But instead of giving them money to not leave the EZ, EU said, great, get out then and pay up your debts. Which was not how it was supposed to go.
See my earlier post. Even if the whole country goes to rack and ruin the politicians, the civil service and the rest of the state apparatchiks will be protected under this deal, but under Grexit they would be in the same boat as the rest of the country.
It's in the $50bn asset seizure and privatisation programme. Money that previously went to the Greek treasury will then go safely offshore to those asset's new owners and shareholders-
They will be brought in with the target to privatize those in the coming years, but we will take our time for that.
We then hope for proceeds of EU50 billion, but that will be clear later.
The banks first have to be refinanced from this aid program, but after that I take it that they’re worth money and then we can sell them.
Proceeds from the asset stripping won't go to the Greeks, but to the creditors. Other smaller members of the EU take note..
(wonder if Ukraine's having second thoughts about cosying up to the EU and taking more loans yet?)
it wasnt
it was tsipras playing politics trying to shift blame but hes a complete amateur
germany called his bluff and so he totally bent over and and said do me now
hell be gone in a month
Nah, it's much easier to 'negotiate' with a weak leader than a strong one. Hence Tsipras being a useful idiot and protected to an extent.. But he still has to get the Greek parliament to agree to the EU's aquisition of a controlling interest in Greece.
He will. They love the Euro bad, dem Greeks.
Germany has a very very big tough lesson to learn in the coming months/years. They will be very much embarrassed by all this behaviour. They should have learnt their lessons back in the 40s, alas.
exactly
so after having their economy collapse by 25%
theyre now going to give a way another 25% of GDP
anyone thinking of voting to stay in the EU in 2017
take note
Expect more riots.
Germany is power hungry and it's dangerous!
No other word for it.
In reply to your last post to me, I'm now pointing out your last para as to my response.
Greece is in no way responsible for any of this regardless of how they have responded to day to day issues as a consequences of EU dictats.
Greece is being bullied into submission. Greece's responses are not freely given. It's all based on fear.
I do apologise if I'm not clear on that. I just can't for the life of me see Greece responsible for this crisis which to me was created way back in the first place by the EU by creating a single currency not suitable to all countries in the EU.
Sorry if I misunderstood you.
They will be paying a big part of that bill, using their citizens' money. It would be reckless if they did not ask for guarantees, again. That's the lesson learnt. Sometimes it's only about money and not the world domination.
Wonder how that will go. Hopefully it won't get through greek parliament. Syriza have 149 of the 300 seats, i think 17 abstained and 1 voted against the current deal Tsipras took to EU. So surely far more will vote against the terrible deal he actually agreed to last night. Presumably a lot will depend on the right wing New Democracy party with their 76 seats and previous record of being one of the old govts that dug the grave that Greece are now in and the recent ruling party who agreed to all EU measures thus far.
Sure there is. Business. See also-
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-13/greece-fails-make-another-imf-loan-payment-it-tonights-samurai-bond-everyone-watchin
The reason why this paltry, in the grand scheme of things, payment is critical is that while continuing to repay the IMF is not an event of default if only purely technically, and for the rating agencies, a non-payment on the Samurai bond would start a cross-default cascade.
So then Greece gets the Venezuelan experience whereby hedge funds who've bought up Greek debt for cents on the dollar (it being 'junk') demand full repayment. And get friendly courts (like the US) to rule the hedge funds are entitled to large profits. It being the American way and all.
From 2010 And there were 14 pension month payments each year at that time.
From 2011 20 years earlier than 2010 would be 1990, 10 years BEFORE joining the Euro.
Just wait til those German "citizen's" ask their Government what the hell they were thinking of by being the big I AM in helping to create this whole situation in the first place?
"guarantees" are worth nothing only being used to bully another country that has no hope of ever paying this money back AND they (Germany) know it. But, right now, it makes them feel good.
And onwards we go.
And yet despite this being known/obvious, people kept lending them money. So who's the fool, the borrower, or the lender?
(Then of course there's the Vampire Squid's role in cooking the books)
Agree. Thats why so many people in politics are predicting this is the beginning of the end of the Euro project. I said on anther thread that i always wanted (very begrudgingly) to stay in EU as it was the least bad of 2 very poor options. But the total lack of democracy where one german man is able to decide the fate of any one of the 28 countries makes it an institution i want nothing to do with. The EU is not democratic whatsoever now, and more importantly is not even a Union due to self interest (to ideologies) being put far above the people of the European Union. Anyone remember when Italy got a euro technocrat made their PM by the EU in 2011?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/what-price-the-new-democracy-goldman-sachs-conquers-europe-6264091.html