Oh, the Joan thing. Okay, you remember the girl who was Chantarelle, then she showed up again in 'Anne' as Lily Houston and then she decided to be Anne (and then gave herself a surname when she turned up in Angel.) ?
Her original name was Joan Appleby. So, she ended up naming herself after Buffy, and then Buffy (totally by accident) named herself after her.
Ah I see. I figured Joan of Arc just because they're both strong, young women.
Hello, and thank you for recommending the soundtrack to me. I was hoping there'd be one for Once More with Feeling and I think I agree with you that it's one of the best if not the best episodes so far in the Buffy-verse. And, out of interest, what persuaded you to start watching both series?
I'd been hearing for ages that it was a great show and something I'd likely enjoy, but I just never got around to sitting down and watching it. Luckily it popped up as a recommendation while I was scrolling through Netflix for something to watch, so I decided to give the first episode a go and ended up binge-watching the entire first season. I finished the final season last night and I already want more Buffy, so I'm going to check out the season eight comics once I'm through with the last season of Angel.
With regards to the comics, I've enjoyed the Buffy ones from the start, but the first post-Angel bunch of comics were appalling, in my opinion. I gave up on them. When his title became 'Angel & Faith', it improved loads.
I might check out the comics at some point, or at least look them up in more detail. Does anyone have the Season 8 motion comic DVD by the way? If so, how long is it and does it have the cast narrating?
Oh, the Joan thing. Okay, you remember the girl who was Chantarelle, then she showed up again in 'Anne' as Lily Houston and then she decided to be Anne (and then gave herself a surname when she turned up in Angel.) ?
Her original name was Joan Appleby. So, she ended up naming herself after Buffy, and then Buffy (totally by accident) named herself after her.
My older sister reckoned she named herself after Joan of Arc...
- I wonder if Angel and Darla turned Holtz's daughter into a vampire?
- Speaking of which, I find Holtz a really fascinating individual. He's unlawfully suffered at the hands of the protagonist and also hasn't done anything wrong from a certain perspective. I think it would be really cool if he managed to survive past this episode.
- Poor Darla.
- Stop the presses... is the transcriber the only nice employee at Wolfram and Hart? He's quite the contrast to Lilah and John Rubenstein's (!) character.
- 'What are we looking at?'
- I really liked the point about how even though Attila the Hun had a soul he still did some pretty terrible things. I know that's quite an unremarkable point but I think it has an interesting resonance in this universe, to say the least.
- I don't have that much to say about this episode without sounding too repetitious and non descript but the conversation between Angel and Darla on the rooftop really solidified this as my favourite installment of the season so far.
- I'm going to go out on a limb and say that death in this case is is a metaphor as opposed to an actual thing.
- That was quite a brutal thing, what happened to Sarah. I also wonder – and this is a long shot – if she is the baby growing inside of Darla? Since Sarah is dead it explains why the baby is potentially death. Additionally, it would resolve the Holtz plot in quite a nice way and harken back to the idea of him being warned against showing any mercy (by the most amazing demon ever. )
-...and I've just remembered it's a boy isn't it? D'oh!
- DARLA!
- Holtz the bastard!
- To conclude, that was really superb and definitely my favourite of the season so far. There were some really cool character beats for Darla and Holtz and some quite funny moments in Caritas as well. Although you could argue that it was a little predictable Angel would end up becoming a father – since the title of the next episode's Dad after all – I honestly didn't see it coming. I thought Wesley's pop would be the one to pop up instead. Finally, I'm hoping this episode signifies a return to action for Wolfram and Hart. I don't think they've had that much of a dramatic presence this year up to this point and, whilst that makes for a nice change I suppose, I think it kind of clashes with the building story, since they're so inextricably linked to both Angel's destiny and the great many battles to come.
I might check out the comics at some point, or at least look them up in more detail. Does anyone have the Season 8 motion comic DVD by the way? If so, how long is it and does it have the cast narrating?
Not according to the reviews I've read, no. I did read through the first of the comics today though, and found myself reading it in the cast's voices inside my head. So that's kind of like having the cast narrating.
- I wonder if Angel and Darla turned Holtz's daughter into a vampire?
- Speaking of which, I find Holtz a really fascinating individual. He's unlawfully suffered at the hands of the protagonist and also hasn't done anything wrong from a certain perspective. I think it would be really cool if he managed to survive past this episode.
- Poor Darla.
- Stop the presses... is the transcriber the only nice employee at Wolfram and Hart? He's quite the contrast to Lilah and John Rubenstein's (!) character.
- 'What are we looking at?'
- I really liked the point about how even though Attila the Hun had a soul he still did some pretty terrible things. I know that's quite an unremarkable point but I think it has an interesting resonance in this universe, to say the least.
- I don't have that much to say about this episode without sounding too repetitious and non descript but the conversation between Angel and Darla on the rooftop really solidified this as my favourite installment of the season so far.
- I'm going to go out on a limb and say that death in this case is is a metaphor as opposed to an actual thing.
- That was quite a brutal thing, what happened to Sarah. I also wonder – and this is a long shot – if she is the baby growing inside of Darla? Since Sarah is dead it explains why the baby is potentially death. Additionally, it would resolve the Holtz plot in quite a nice way and harken back to the idea of him being warned against showing any mercy (by the most amazing demon ever. )
-...and I've just remembered it's a boy isn't it? D'oh!
- DARLA!
- Holtz the bastard!
- To conclude, that was really superb and definitely my favourite of the season so far. There were some really cool character beats for Darla and Holtz and some quite funny moments in Caritas as well. Although you could argue that it was a little predictable Angel would end up becoming a father – since the title of the next episode's Dad after all – I honestly didn't see it coming. I thought Wesley's pop would be the one to pop up instead. Finally, I'm hoping this episode signifies a return to action for Wolfram and Hart. I don't think they've had that much of a dramatic presence this year up to this point and, whilst that makes for a nice change I suppose, I think it kind of clashes with the building story, since they're so inextricably linked to both Angel's destiny and the great many battles to come.
All this time you have been on S3, I have been waiting for you to get to this episode. It's personally my favourite of the season. The rooftop scene was perfect and it was interesting to see that the baby inside was given Darla the glimpse of humanity she had.
I mean think about it, must have been intense... she only lived to her teens didn't she? She was cured by The Master by being turned into a vampire, was a vampire for 400ish years, staked, brought back as human for a few months? Made into a vampire again for around a year, and then stakes HERSELF. She basically didn't know what caring felt like because she was only human was a tiny % of her life, hence why it was so powerful that she gave up on her entire life to save her baby, a baby who wasn't even born yet.
Also, it came to a massive shock to me, not that she died per se, but the fact she sacrificed herself.
All this time you have been on S3, I have been waiting for you to get to this episode. It's personally my favourite of the season. The rooftop scene was perfect and it was interesting to see that the baby inside was given Darla the glimpse of humanity she had.
I mean think about it, must have been intense... she only lived to her teens didn't she? She was cured by The Master by being turned into a vampire, was a vampire for 400ish years, staked, brought back as human for a few months? Made into a vampire again for around a year, and then stakes HERSELF. She basically didn't know what caring felt like because she was only human was a tiny % of her life, hence why it was so powerful that she gave up on her entire life to save her baby, a baby who wasn't even born yet.
Also, it came to a massive shock to me, not that she died per se, but the fact she sacrificed herself.
Yeah she didn't even remember ANY of her human life at all did she (except for the whole prostitute dying of syphilis thing)? We don't even know what her name was before the Master called her Darla. That makes her the only member of their old little group whose actual name we never find out. Dru was always Drusilla, Angel was Liam and Spike was William.
We should probably be glad those guys have nicknames as having 2 of Buffy's love interests with basically the same name (and are frenemies) would just be hella confusing for both viewers and characters :P
- Amy is going to be this episode! Amy the Rat! And random thought – what if the Trio accidentally kills Tara?
- 'Yes, because criminals deserve to be eaten.'
- I notice that Giles probably won't be in this episode. I was kind of expecting that, actually.
- Jonathan is such an idiot.
- I have lots of thoughts about Amy. Like, will she become Willow's girlfriend and will her readjustment to society be paralleled to a certain extent with Buffy? I'm also surprised that Willow hasn't been successfully able to turn her back before now considering how much better she's gotten at practicing magic.
- I empathise with what Buffy is feeling and all but I do think it's kind of unfair that she hasn't been able to consider the consequences of kissing Spike time and again. Can she not see how infatuated he is with her? Whilst he is of course reading too much into things, she shouldn't keep giving him things to read.
- Wait... does Buffy constitute as a demon now then? I guess that it would only make sense considering she sort of is the living undead.
- This is going to sound extremely ironic but Spike's vampire prosthetic looked really tanned during that scene in the alley at night.
- Spike threatening the Trio – or should that be Boba Fett – was pretty good. And Doctor Who reference? Y-E-S. Spike being scared of the geeks was funny as well.
- This is quite a nice episode but nothing really substantial has happened so far. I'm not necessarily complaining about that though since it's nice to spend time just exploring the characters.
- Is Amy a more powerful witch than Willow? And is she going to be the one who helps lead her down a darker path?!
- Ooh Willow foreshadowing! And I might have mentioned this before but what if Willow accidentally kills Tara instead?
- I really hate Spike for making Buffy feels like she doesn't belong.
- And they all lived happily ever after! That was certainly an interesting lead into a sex scene – even if the metaphor did make sense – but I rather liked it all things considered albeit more so for the music than anything else.
- Ultimately, that was quite good although I felt it was more sort of laying the groundwork for things to come. Like, I'm really intrigued to see where Willow and Amy go from here; I imagine their story is directly continued in Wrecked? I also want to see what happens next with Buffy and Spike since I'm curious to know if her motivations for igniting the tryst – and the tryst alone – were purely passion-oriented? That, and Spike's words managed to strike a faint chord? I also wonder what the morning after will be like as well – they couldn't have picked a worse location! The only real gripe I had with the episode was that the Trio aren't doing much as per usual. Of course they're going to be involved for a reason but I can't really think of what it might be just yet, and not necessarily in a good way either. But for now though let's concentrate on the positives – is it a good thing? - and raise the roof for Buffy and Spike. ;-)
- Amy is going to be this episode! Amy the Rat! And random thought – what if the Trio accidentally kills Tara?
- 'Yes, because criminals deserve to be eaten.'
- I notice that Giles probably won't be in this episode. I was kind of expecting that, actually.
- Jonathan is such an idiot.
- I have lots of thoughts about Amy. Like, will she become Willow's girlfriend and will her readjustment to society be paralleled to a certain extent with Buffy? I'm also surprised that Willow hasn't been successfully able to turn her back before now considering how much better she's gotten at practicing magic.
- I empathise with what Buffy is feeling and all but I do think it's kind of unfair that she hasn't been able to consider the consequences of kissing Spike time and again. Can she not see how infatuated he is with her? Whilst he is of course reading too much into things, she shouldn't keep giving him things to read.
- Wait... does Buffy constitute as a demon now then? I guess that it would only make sense considering she sort of is the living undead.
- This is going to sound extremely ironic but Spike's vampire prosthetic looked really tanned during that scene in the alley at night.
- Spike threatening the Trio – or should that be Boba Fett – was pretty good. And Doctor Who reference? Y-E-S. Spike being scared of the geeks was funny as well.
- This is quite a nice episode but nothing really substantial has happened so far. I'm not necessarily complaining about that though since it's nice to spend time just exploring the characters.
- Is Amy a more powerful witch than Willow? And is she going to be the one who helps lead her down a darker path?!
- Ooh Willow foreshadowing! And I might have mentioned this before but what if Willow accidentally kills Tara instead?
- I really hate Spike for making Buffy feels like she doesn't belong.
- And they all lived happily ever after! That was certainly an interesting lead into a sex scene – even if the metaphor did make sense – but I rather liked it all things considered albeit more so for the music than anything else.
- Ultimately, that was quite good although I felt it was more sort of laying the groundwork for things to come. Like, I'm really intrigued to see where Willow and Amy go from here; I imagine their story is directly continued in Wrecked? I also want to see what happens next with Buffy and Spike since I'm curious to know if her motivations for igniting the tryst – and the tryst alone – were purely passion-oriented? That, and Spike's words managed to strike a faint chord? I also wonder what the morning after will be like as well – they couldn't have picked a worse location! The only real gripe I had with the episode was that the Trio aren't doing much as per usual. Of course they're going to be involved for a reason but I can't really think of what it might be just yet, and not necessarily in a good way either. But for now though let's concentrate on the positives – is it a good thing? - and raise the roof for Buffy and Spike. ;-)
The ending of Smashed is probably my favourite ending of any Buffy episode, or even any show,ever:p.
And I don't know if you've seen it or not, but here is an extended version of THAT scene:
I think my favourite ending to a Buffy episode though is the end of Earshot when Buffy 'teases' Giles about his little tryst with her mum. And for the record my favourite sex scene is Xander and Faith just for how abrupt the aftermath was.
Wrecked
- Spike's behaviour was really disgusting in that first scene after the opening credits. I know I kind of criticised Buffy last episode for effectively leading him on but I think he's more so at fault for continually offering her a shoulder to cry on. I mean what else did he realistically expect to happen when he made himself available to a girl in Buffy's position? She was very likely to reciprocate – unconsciously or not.
- Since Dawn seems to be exceptionally close to Tara and Spike, I really want there to be an episode where all three are the driving force of the action before Tara dies.
- Anya's hair looks really different.
- I don't actually mind magic being likened to drugs since I can easily imagine it's very addictive but that scene in Rack's place took things a little too far.
- I wonder if Willow's eyes will be black all the time when she's evil? And seeing how upset she was in the shower, I've gone back to thinking she'll wind up as a Vengeance Demon instead.
- There was something so sweet about the scene where Willow animated Tara's clothes.
- Yeah, Amy as a Rack Addict was a little bit silly.
- Random thought and time to mention it but I think my biggest gripe with this season so far is that we still haven't been introduced to the main antagonist yet. Although you could argue the silver lining is their story won't be stretched out, I'm just disappointed because there hasn't really been a tangible enemy for the Scoobies to fight. That is unless Willow is the Big Bad of Season 6?!
- This is probably dumb but I didn't actually think Willow would take Dawn to Rack's.
- I like the trailers too.
- You gotta admire the audacity of a fourteen year old girl slapping someone a fair bit older than her. The slap in itself felt a little bit melodramatic though.
- I really want Buffy to help Willow out.
- Ultimately, I have mixed thoughts about this particular episode. On the one hand, I really didn't like the magic plot because it lacked any subtlety and it occasionally felt like a bit of a farce. On the other hand though, I thought the aftermath was quite interesting, with some great performances from Sarah Michelle Gellar and Alyson Hannigan. I'm also not sure how I should feel about Spike – I keep flip flopping between like and disgust – but I find it helps to remember that he still is a soulless vampire and has been throughout this whole 'ordeal'. Finally, I know not everyone might like the idea of Willow turning against Buffy and friends but I think it's actually a really clever twist in the tale. Willow is one of the nicest characters the show has to offer and to a certain extent I'll always be able to feel sympathy for her – to be honest in this episode I felt more bad for Willow than I did do for Dawn! I think it's good that we'll have a proper villain with pathos and who we can empathise (?) with then since that's something which we've been sort of lacking up to this point. Besides, who isn't even the slightest bit curious to see them fight it out until the bitter end?
Spoilers for late season 6 and beyond. Don't open if you haven't seen episode 19 of season 6, or episode 7 of season 7.
I was thinking about whether to post this now, or wait until the the thread had reached Conversations with Dead People, but I want to post this while what I want to say is still fresh in my mind.
Has anyone here read the Conversations with Dead Peoplealternate script? I know there is supposedly two (one of them featuring Xander), but I mean the one that has the First taking Tara's form when it appears to Willow in the library. I read it last night after seeing an old interview on YouTube with Amber Benson. She said that one of the reasons she didn't come back in season 7, was because she didn't want Tara to be bad, which would have been a component of her return. I was a little disappointed about that, as Tara is easily one of my favourite characters from the show and despite me not being a girl, she was the character I felt that I could most relate to. I was so glad when I watched the opening titles for Seeing Red and saw that she'd become a main cast member, only to be completely gutted when she was killed off at the end of the episode.
After some searching on Google to find more information, I found people mentioning Tara as the First and eventually came across the original script for CWDP. Having read that script now though, I'm so glad that Amber made the decision that she did and not return for CWDP. As soon as I got to the part where Willow looks up and sees Tara sitting across from her, my eyes started to fill up (something that's never happened just from reading a script before). Like I often do, I was reading everything in the actor's voices, watching the scene play out in my head and everything was great. Then came the part where the First (as Tara) starts trying to goad Willow into committing suicide and it was just hurt (especially "You know to cut long, right? Up the arm. I can see it now, candle light... The Indigo Girls playing. A picture of your dead girlfriend on your bloody lap"). I know that was the point, that the First was hitting Willow where it hurt the most and the writers were trying to convey that hurt to the audience, but damn. Those scenes where it's Cassie as the First weren't exactly pleasant to watch, but if it had been Tara as the First instead, they would have been almost unwatchable in my opinion. Especially after the first couple of times you see her, when you think it's really Tara.
- I don't actually mind magic being likened to drugs since I can easily imagine it's very addictive but that scene in Rack's place took things a little too far.
Yeah, I agree. I could get on board with the 'magic as an addiction' storyline, as it does make more sense than people seem to give it credit for, but the whole 'magic dealer' thing didn't really fit in.
I didn't mind the Rack bit so much, but it just bugged me that Amy knew about it, she's been a rat for years, are you saying she went there when she was still in High School? That's the only bit that didn't sit right with me.
I love the Buffy/Spike relationship, as it's a strange dynamic between them love/hate relationship. 'I don't like you, but I'll sleep with you, all while the house falls down around us!' The morning after scene worked quite well, as even though Spike was a bit forceful in not wanting her to go, she did reciprocate when he started kissing her.
I didn't mind the Rack bit so much, but it just bugged me that Amy knew about it, she's been a rat for years, are you saying she went there when she was still in High School? That's the only bit that didn't sit right with me.
I love the Buffy/Spike relationship, as it's a strange dynamic between them love/hate relationship. 'I don't like you, but I'll sleep with you, all while the house falls down around us!' The morning after scene worked quite well, as even though Spike was a bit forceful in not wanting her to go, she did reciprocate when he started kissing her.
I loved the Buffy/Spike relationship, serious Spuffy shipper here:p. And IMO the Smashed house scene is the best sex scene in any show, I mean they literally brought the house down!.
I loved the Buffy/Spike relationship, serious Spuffy shipper here:p. And IMO the Smashed house scene is the best sex scene in any show, I mean they literally brought the house down!.
It was a destructive and abusive relationship. It was written as such, most people do recognise that and wouldn't wish that kind if toxic relationship on their worst enemy. It is slightly disturbing how some can still romanticise it. But hey, whatever turns you on.
It was a destructive and abusive relationship. It was written as such, most people do recognise that and wouldn't wish that kind if toxic relationship on their worst enemy. It is slightly disturbing how some can still romanticise it. But hey, whatever turns you on.
Having now seen Gone, I think I'm starting to come round to the idea of Buffy and Spike as a proper... couple but as RebelScum more or less said I can just tell that the whole thing's going to end badly. I find their relationship more fascinating to watch than I do arousing as a result of this then, and I'm not entirely sure if it's something I'd ever want to actively root for considering just how poorly they treat each other at times. Then again I was attracted to Faith so what do I know!! And for the record the only couples I've ever 'shipped' are Xander and Willow and Xander and Cordy.
Dad
- I'm 'intrigued' to know what sort of woman dresses like Angel!
- One of my favourite things about the Buffyverse is the tongue in cheek nature of some of the settings and characters. Case in point, I really liked that the minions went out to get a bite to eat and that the demon whose allied himself with Holtz apparently has a really fast internet speed.
- I wonder what the Pylean word for hedgehog is? I'm going to guess it's something that begins with a P even if it that would be a little too obvious. ;-)
- Minor nitpick but how is Fred so acquainted with the internet already to the extent that she can easily hack into people's e-mails? Since her introduction in the show, she's mainly spent her time in Pylea or alone in her room.
- Linwood's great. And I think that's the first Senior Partners reference we've gotten in almost a season.
- I really hope that Angel's kid doesn't die at the end of the episode. I really hope the conclusion will be his son getting a name instead. I'm going to guess that the name will be unrelated to anything we know about Angel so far (he won't be named after Angel's own dad for example.)
- Although I think Cordy makes a really good point, I think Angel's resolve to do everything is really admirable too.
- Random thought but I really hope Angelus doesn't come back at some point. Can you imagine what he would do to the baby?!
- Wesley looks like he belongs in Ghostbusters.
- Random thought 2.0 – I wonder if there'll be a time skip sometime before the start of Season 5? This is because I can't see Angel's kid saving/destroying the world as a baby. Then again the show wasn't supposed to end at that point, was it? I'd also really like to see his son have to adjust to the fact that his parent's a vampire, and if Angel will have to turn him at some point?
- Seeing just how far the enemy factions are willing to go to get their hands on the kid, I genuinely cannot see him surviving past the end of the episode. That being said, I don't think they'll actually kill him.
- Wesley you bad ass!
- I had a feeling that the baby would turn out to be a decoy but I'm a little disappointed that the 'feuding' between the gang was all a performance. I think it made for an interesting turn of events that Angel was unable to trust his friends for once, and his obsessive protectiveness was really sweet too.
- Geraldo you bad ass! Still can't beat the flame thrower though!
- Random thought numero tres – what if Geraldo names the baby Lindsey, or least makes a joke about it?!
- THAT'S WHO CONNOR IS?! I sort of knew there was a character with that name coming up - as in I found out a little while ago and soon after forgot - but I didn't think for one second he'd be Angel's son!!!
- That ending scene was perfect. Yes. You have to feel a little bad for Wesley though. That's the second thing they've refused to name after him since they also didn't honour him with the detective agency as well.
- To conclude, that was really quite good and I'm so beyond happy that Angel's become a father now. Something tells me It's going to be very interesting to have a tiny little baby around. It's also gotten me wondering how Cordy will leave since I just assumed the character would get pregnant too. Even if Charisma Carpenter's pregnancy was unplanned (that's an awful conclusion to jump to, isn't it!) I can't really see them doing the same storyline twice. The only real thing that bugged me about this episode – aside from the point which I mentioned above - is Holtz's little recruitment plot. If he knew he was going to need help to put a stop to Geraldo (love that name) then why on Earth he didn't kill him when he was all vulnerable back in the rain? It also seems a little pointless to try and play the waiting game - since that's presumably the reason he let him go - because that's what he's been doing for the past two hundred years. I know that he's a vampire hunter but still. Speaking of which, I also have a feeling that Justine will be extremely important but until I've seen a couple more episodes with her in I'll reserve my judgement. I do wonder though if she'll 'reform' and be a love interest for Gunn, since both are vampire slayers who have lost their sister?
It was a destructive and abusive relationship. It was written as such, most people do recognise that and wouldn't wish that kind if toxic relationship on their worst enemy. It is slightly disturbing how some can still romanticise it. But hey, whatever turns you on.
I know it was a destructive and abusive relationship. But the fangirl serial Spuffy shipper in me wanted them together, so if the only scenes of them "together" were what was provided on the show, I'll take it beggars can't be choosers! And as for not wishing a relationship like that on anyone, in the case of Spike, I would make an exception and take what I could get of him too!:p
Comments
Ah I see. I figured Joan of Arc just because they're both strong, young women.
'Sodding, blimey, shagging, knickers, bollocks, oh God! I'm English!'
There were a lot of good lines in this episode, really.
I'd been hearing for ages that it was a great show and something I'd likely enjoy, but I just never got around to sitting down and watching it. Luckily it popped up as a recommendation while I was scrolling through Netflix for something to watch, so I decided to give the first episode a go and ended up binge-watching the entire first season. I finished the final season last night and I already want more Buffy, so I'm going to check out the season eight comics once I'm through with the last season of Angel.
My older sister reckoned she named herself after Joan of Arc...
- I wonder if Angel and Darla turned Holtz's daughter into a vampire?
- Speaking of which, I find Holtz a really fascinating individual. He's unlawfully suffered at the hands of the protagonist and also hasn't done anything wrong from a certain perspective. I think it would be really cool if he managed to survive past this episode.
- Poor Darla.
- Stop the presses... is the transcriber the only nice employee at Wolfram and Hart? He's quite the contrast to Lilah and John Rubenstein's (!) character.
- 'What are we looking at?'
- I really liked the point about how even though Attila the Hun had a soul he still did some pretty terrible things. I know that's quite an unremarkable point but I think it has an interesting resonance in this universe, to say the least.
- I don't have that much to say about this episode without sounding too repetitious and non descript but the conversation between Angel and Darla on the rooftop really solidified this as my favourite installment of the season so far.
- I'm going to go out on a limb and say that death in this case is is a metaphor as opposed to an actual thing.
- That was quite a brutal thing, what happened to Sarah. I also wonder – and this is a long shot – if she is the baby growing inside of Darla? Since Sarah is dead it explains why the baby is potentially death. Additionally, it would resolve the Holtz plot in quite a nice way and harken back to the idea of him being warned against showing any mercy (by the most amazing demon ever.
-...and I've just remembered it's a boy isn't it? D'oh!
- DARLA!
- Holtz the bastard!
- To conclude, that was really superb and definitely my favourite of the season so far. There were some really cool character beats for Darla and Holtz and some quite funny moments in Caritas as well. Although you could argue that it was a little predictable Angel would end up becoming a father – since the title of the next episode's Dad after all – I honestly didn't see it coming. I thought Wesley's pop would be the one to pop up instead. Finally, I'm hoping this episode signifies a return to action for Wolfram and Hart. I don't think they've had that much of a dramatic presence this year up to this point and, whilst that makes for a nice change I suppose, I think it kind of clashes with the building story, since they're so inextricably linked to both Angel's destiny and the great many battles to come.
Not according to the reviews I've read, no. I did read through the first of the comics today though, and found myself reading it in the cast's voices inside my head. So that's kind of like having the cast narrating.
All this time you have been on S3, I have been waiting for you to get to this episode. It's personally my favourite of the season. The rooftop scene was perfect and it was interesting to see that the baby inside was given Darla the glimpse of humanity she had.
I mean think about it, must have been intense... she only lived to her teens didn't she? She was cured by The Master by being turned into a vampire, was a vampire for 400ish years, staked, brought back as human for a few months? Made into a vampire again for around a year, and then stakes HERSELF. She basically didn't know what caring felt like because she was only human was a tiny % of her life, hence why it was so powerful that she gave up on her entire life to save her baby, a baby who wasn't even born yet.
Also, it came to a massive shock to me, not that she died per se, but the fact she sacrificed herself.
Yeah she didn't even remember ANY of her human life at all did she (except for the whole prostitute dying of syphilis thing)? We don't even know what her name was before the Master called her Darla. That makes her the only member of their old little group whose actual name we never find out. Dru was always Drusilla, Angel was Liam and Spike was William.
We should probably be glad those guys have nicknames as having 2 of Buffy's love interests with basically the same name (and are frenemies) would just be hella confusing for both viewers and characters :P
- Amy is going to be this episode! Amy the Rat! And random thought – what if the Trio accidentally kills Tara?
- 'Yes, because criminals deserve to be eaten.'
- I notice that Giles probably won't be in this episode. I was kind of expecting that, actually.
- Jonathan is such an idiot.
- I have lots of thoughts about Amy. Like, will she become Willow's girlfriend and will her readjustment to society be paralleled to a certain extent with Buffy? I'm also surprised that Willow hasn't been successfully able to turn her back before now considering how much better she's gotten at practicing magic.
- I empathise with what Buffy is feeling and all but I do think it's kind of unfair that she hasn't been able to consider the consequences of kissing Spike time and again. Can she not see how infatuated he is with her? Whilst he is of course reading too much into things, she shouldn't keep giving him things to read.
- Wait... does Buffy constitute as a demon now then? I guess that it would only make sense considering she sort of is the living undead.
- This is going to sound extremely ironic but Spike's vampire prosthetic looked really tanned during that scene in the alley at night.
- Spike threatening the Trio – or should that be Boba Fett – was pretty good. And Doctor Who reference? Y-E-S. Spike being scared of the geeks was funny as well.
- This is quite a nice episode but nothing really substantial has happened so far. I'm not necessarily complaining about that though since it's nice to spend time just exploring the characters.
- Is Amy a more powerful witch than Willow? And is she going to be the one who helps lead her down a darker path?!
- Ooh Willow foreshadowing! And I might have mentioned this before but what if Willow accidentally kills Tara instead?
- I really hate Spike for making Buffy feels like she doesn't belong.
- And they all lived happily ever after! That was certainly an interesting lead into a sex scene – even if the metaphor did make sense – but I rather liked it all things considered albeit more so for the music than anything else.
- Ultimately, that was quite good although I felt it was more sort of laying the groundwork for things to come. Like, I'm really intrigued to see where Willow and Amy go from here; I imagine their story is directly continued in Wrecked? I also want to see what happens next with Buffy and Spike since I'm curious to know if her motivations for igniting the tryst – and the tryst alone – were purely passion-oriented? That, and Spike's words managed to strike a faint chord? I also wonder what the morning after will be like as well – they couldn't have picked a worse location! The only real gripe I had with the episode was that the Trio aren't doing much as per usual. Of course they're going to be involved for a reason but I can't really think of what it might be just yet, and not necessarily in a good way either. But for now though let's concentrate on the positives – is it a good thing? - and raise the roof for Buffy and Spike. ;-)
Still, good to see Amy again. I like that her rat transformation is resolved.
The ending of Smashed is probably my favourite ending of any Buffy episode, or even any show,ever
And I don't know if you've seen it or not, but here is an extended version of THAT scene:
http://youtu.be/9F2FS3XOvnA
Er, enjoy
I thought you might enjoy it!
I think my favourite ending to a Buffy episode though is the end of Earshot when Buffy 'teases' Giles about his little tryst with her mum. And for the record my favourite sex scene is Xander and Faith just for how abrupt the aftermath was.
Wrecked
- Spike's behaviour was really disgusting in that first scene after the opening credits. I know I kind of criticised Buffy last episode for effectively leading him on but I think he's more so at fault for continually offering her a shoulder to cry on. I mean what else did he realistically expect to happen when he made himself available to a girl in Buffy's position? She was very likely to reciprocate – unconsciously or not.
- Since Dawn seems to be exceptionally close to Tara and Spike, I really want there to be an episode where all three are the driving force of the action before Tara dies.
- Anya's hair looks really different.
- I don't actually mind magic being likened to drugs since I can easily imagine it's very addictive but that scene in Rack's place took things a little too far.
- I wonder if Willow's eyes will be black all the time when she's evil? And seeing how upset she was in the shower, I've gone back to thinking she'll wind up as a Vengeance Demon instead.
- There was something so sweet about the scene where Willow animated Tara's clothes.
- Yeah, Amy as a Rack Addict was a little bit silly.
- Random thought and time to mention it but I think my biggest gripe with this season so far is that we still haven't been introduced to the main antagonist yet. Although you could argue the silver lining is their story won't be stretched out, I'm just disappointed because there hasn't really been a tangible enemy for the Scoobies to fight. That is unless Willow is the Big Bad of Season 6?!
- This is probably dumb but I didn't actually think Willow would take Dawn to Rack's.
- I like the trailers too.
- You gotta admire the audacity of a fourteen year old girl slapping someone a fair bit older than her. The slap in itself felt a little bit melodramatic though.
- I really want Buffy to help Willow out.
- Ultimately, I have mixed thoughts about this particular episode. On the one hand, I really didn't like the magic plot because it lacked any subtlety and it occasionally felt like a bit of a farce. On the other hand though, I thought the aftermath was quite interesting, with some great performances from Sarah Michelle Gellar and Alyson Hannigan. I'm also not sure how I should feel about Spike – I keep flip flopping between like and disgust – but I find it helps to remember that he still is a soulless vampire and has been throughout this whole 'ordeal'. Finally, I know not everyone might like the idea of Willow turning against Buffy and friends but I think it's actually a really clever twist in the tale. Willow is one of the nicest characters the show has to offer and to a certain extent I'll always be able to feel sympathy for her – to be honest in this episode I felt more bad for Willow than I did do for Dawn! I think it's good that we'll have a proper villain with pathos and who we can empathise (?) with then since that's something which we've been sort of lacking up to this point. Besides, who isn't even the slightest bit curious to see them fight it out until the bitter end?
Has anyone here read the Conversations with Dead People alternate script? I know there is supposedly two (one of them featuring Xander), but I mean the one that has the First taking Tara's form when it appears to Willow in the library. I read it last night after seeing an old interview on YouTube with Amber Benson. She said that one of the reasons she didn't come back in season 7, was because she didn't want Tara to be bad, which would have been a component of her return. I was a little disappointed about that, as Tara is easily one of my favourite characters from the show and despite me not being a girl, she was the character I felt that I could most relate to. I was so glad when I watched the opening titles for Seeing Red and saw that she'd become a main cast member, only to be completely gutted when she was killed off at the end of the episode.
After some searching on Google to find more information, I found people mentioning Tara as the First and eventually came across the original script for CWDP. Having read that script now though, I'm so glad that Amber made the decision that she did and not return for CWDP. As soon as I got to the part where Willow looks up and sees Tara sitting across from her, my eyes started to fill up (something that's never happened just from reading a script before). Like I often do, I was reading everything in the actor's voices, watching the scene play out in my head and everything was great. Then came the part where the First (as Tara) starts trying to goad Willow into committing suicide and it was just hurt (especially "You know to cut long, right? Up the arm. I can see it now, candle light... The Indigo Girls playing. A picture of your dead girlfriend on your bloody lap"). I know that was the point, that the First was hitting Willow where it hurt the most and the writers were trying to convey that hurt to the audience, but damn. Those scenes where it's Cassie as the First weren't exactly pleasant to watch, but if it had been Tara as the First instead, they would have been almost unwatchable in my opinion. Especially after the first couple of times you see her, when you think it's really Tara.
What does everyone else think?
Yeah, I agree. I could get on board with the 'magic as an addiction' storyline, as it does make more sense than people seem to give it credit for, but the whole 'magic dealer' thing didn't really fit in.
I love the Buffy/Spike relationship, as it's a strange dynamic between them love/hate relationship. 'I don't like you, but I'll sleep with you, all while the house falls down around us!' The morning after scene worked quite well, as even though Spike was a bit forceful in not wanting her to go, she did reciprocate when he started kissing her.
Yep, I absolutely loved it too. She rode him like a Pony didn't she.
I loved the Buffy/Spike relationship, serious Spuffy shipper here:p. And IMO the Smashed house scene is the best sex scene in any show, I mean they literally brought the house down!
She sure did
It was a destructive and abusive relationship. It was written as such, most people do recognise that and wouldn't wish that kind if toxic relationship on their worst enemy. It is slightly disturbing how some can still romanticise it. But hey, whatever turns you on.
Ta very much. I will do thanks.
Having now seen Gone, I think I'm starting to come round to the idea of Buffy and Spike as a proper... couple but as RebelScum more or less said I can just tell that the whole thing's going to end badly. I find their relationship more fascinating to watch than I do arousing as a result of this then, and I'm not entirely sure if it's something I'd ever want to actively root for considering just how poorly they treat each other at times. Then again I was attracted to Faith so what do I know!! And for the record the only couples I've ever 'shipped' are Xander and Willow and Xander and Cordy.
Dad
- I'm 'intrigued' to know what sort of woman dresses like Angel!
- One of my favourite things about the Buffyverse is the tongue in cheek nature of some of the settings and characters. Case in point, I really liked that the minions went out to get a bite to eat and that the demon whose allied himself with Holtz apparently has a really fast internet speed.
- I wonder what the Pylean word for hedgehog is? I'm going to guess it's something that begins with a P even if it that would be a little too obvious. ;-)
- Minor nitpick but how is Fred so acquainted with the internet already to the extent that she can easily hack into people's e-mails? Since her introduction in the show, she's mainly spent her time in Pylea or alone in her room.
- Linwood's great. And I think that's the first Senior Partners reference we've gotten in almost a season.
- I really hope that Angel's kid doesn't die at the end of the episode. I really hope the conclusion will be his son getting a name instead. I'm going to guess that the name will be unrelated to anything we know about Angel so far (he won't be named after Angel's own dad for example.)
- Although I think Cordy makes a really good point, I think Angel's resolve to do everything is really admirable too.
- Random thought but I really hope Angelus doesn't come back at some point. Can you imagine what he would do to the baby?!
- Wesley looks like he belongs in Ghostbusters.
- Random thought 2.0 – I wonder if there'll be a time skip sometime before the start of Season 5? This is because I can't see Angel's kid saving/destroying the world as a baby. Then again the show wasn't supposed to end at that point, was it? I'd also really like to see his son have to adjust to the fact that his parent's a vampire, and if Angel will have to turn him at some point?
- Seeing just how far the enemy factions are willing to go to get their hands on the kid, I genuinely cannot see him surviving past the end of the episode. That being said, I don't think they'll actually kill him.
- Wesley you bad ass!
- I had a feeling that the baby would turn out to be a decoy but I'm a little disappointed that the 'feuding' between the gang was all a performance. I think it made for an interesting turn of events that Angel was unable to trust his friends for once, and his obsessive protectiveness was really sweet too.
- Geraldo you bad ass! Still can't beat the flame thrower though!
- Random thought numero tres – what if Geraldo names the baby Lindsey, or least makes a joke about it?!
- THAT'S WHO CONNOR IS?! I sort of knew there was a character with that name coming up - as in I found out a little while ago and soon after forgot - but I didn't think for one second he'd be Angel's son!!!
- That ending scene was perfect. Yes. You have to feel a little bad for Wesley though. That's the second thing they've refused to name after him since they also didn't honour him with the detective agency as well.
- To conclude, that was really quite good and I'm so beyond happy that Angel's become a father now. Something tells me It's going to be very interesting to have a tiny little baby around. It's also gotten me wondering how Cordy will leave since I just assumed the character would get pregnant too. Even if Charisma Carpenter's pregnancy was unplanned (that's an awful conclusion to jump to, isn't it!) I can't really see them doing the same storyline twice. The only real thing that bugged me about this episode – aside from the point which I mentioned above - is Holtz's little recruitment plot. If he knew he was going to need help to put a stop to Geraldo (love that name) then why on Earth he didn't kill him when he was all vulnerable back in the rain? It also seems a little pointless to try and play the waiting game - since that's presumably the reason he let him go - because that's what he's been doing for the past two hundred years. I know that he's a vampire hunter but still. Speaking of which, I also have a feeling that Justine will be extremely important but until I've seen a couple more episodes with her in I'll reserve my judgement. I do wonder though if she'll 'reform' and be a love interest for Gunn, since both are vampire slayers who have lost their sister?
I know it was a destructive and abusive relationship. But the fangirl serial Spuffy shipper in me wanted them together, so if the only scenes of them "together" were what was provided on the show, I'll take it beggars can't be choosers! And as for not wishing a relationship like that on anyone, in the case of Spike, I would make an exception and take what I could get of him too!